Where do you guys rank Rik Smits?

[Reggie43]

In terms of impact and ability not including his playoff resume. Which group/tier of players does he belong to?

The most similar player to him is Ilgauskas with the skillset, stats and height but he is obviously a much better/effective scorer than him.

Is it fair to put him on the same tier of players like Baker, Divac, Seikaly, Jayson Williams or even Elden Campbell?

Which player give a similar impact as Smits in the modern nba?

[Kblaze8855]

Hard to say because he never played that much. If he could have played a normal 35 minutes or so he’d be better remembered. He was sorta a big deal when he was young. Like a poor man’s Sampson mobility wise. He was way more nimble than he looked.

[Reggie43]

Hard to say because he never played that much. If he could have played a normal 35 minutes or so he’d be better remembered. He was sorta a big deal when he was young. Like a poor man’s Sampson mobility wise. He was way more nimble than he looked.

He had stamina issues I think and had trouble against faster lineups especially at the time when the foot problems creeped in but he was much more unstoppable than his numbers suggest with his Kevin Mchale type offensive moves in the post and his feathery midrange touch.

[Reggie43]

Them having a strong frontcourt player like Antonio Davis off the bench may have contributed in his lack of proper starter minutes?

[Jasper]

I visited Indy , and saw Boston come to town ,, Indy could of handled them easily , but they took bad shots under Brown , and Smits if and when he got touchs was money in the bank ....
I felt his whole career , he was never used properly

[Reggie43]

I think he was used pretty well for the Pacers. He played with players that maximized his strengths and was actively looking to set him up inside or for the pick and pop. Dale Davis as a front court partner helped him defensively and rebounding, Miller spaced the floor for him and while always giving the post entry pass for him to go to work inside. Jackson always set him up with the midrange J, passes on the secondary break or inside for the dunk. Mckey was the glue guy who helped out on everything.

The gameplan was basically to give it to him in the post and work from there. It doesnt get any better than that. Them playing in a tougher era while being a defense first team on most years might have lowered his numbers a bit compared to his peers but he still had the most touches on the team on a per min basis so that tells a lot about the trust they had in him.

[Overdrive]

Divac is as close as a player could get. Mobilen atleast for his size, who could score rebound and pass very well. Better shooter than Vlade, but same tier imo.

[Phoenix]

Shaq at one point said he couldn't stop him and at 7'4 with a strong lower base he wasnt that easy to push around. He sounded like one of those guys that wouldn't make a top 5 center list in his era but you wouldn't really want to play against him. Both his size and shooting touch were an issue. He was a skilled big man.

He either didnt have the stamina to play full starters minutes or couldnt stay healthy. His per36 from his 4th season to his last was 21/8. Now, per36 is tricky because a bench player that can produce alot in 10-15 minutes may have great per36 numbers, but that doesnt mean the player is good enough to actually play that many minutes or that their production holds up when factoring in the natural attrition over a game, or that playing 15 minutes a night it's likely against the other teams drags and not much intersection with higher quality starters. But Smits had a few seasons between 95 and 98 where he played 29-30 mins a night and he was 21/9 per36. On the finals team he was 20/8 per36 but only playing 24 minutes a night at that point as a starter. It's not that hard to imagine that ability-wise he could have played normal starter minutes and been a 20ppg guy a number of seasons.

[Reggie43]

He had a strong base but never a strong upper body. He held his own on post defense but was not the type that could outmuscle guys consistently but he did outskill them inside.

Him being a poor rebounder for his size was also an issue but it all boils down to his lack of stamina and inability to play effectively against the faster teams because he never had the mobility for it which put him in foul trouble.

I remember the Bucks taking him out of a playoff game by playing a faster pace and using Darvin Ham of all people to negate him, he was deep into his foot issues then so that was also a big factor in that.
Marcus Camby also gave him hell that one series by being all over the place, running up and down the floor scoring, rebounding and playing defense. Honestly felt that if Ewing was never injured we would have gone to the Finals.

That said he was really a huge factor for the Pacers in his prime because he had that one superstar level skill (scoring) that could be relied upon regardless of the defense. Pair him up with an unselfish group and that is basically the reason they played deep in the postseason most of the time.

[Phoenix]

No he wasnt going to outmuscle guys( upper body strength) but saying he had a strong lower base was to say he was harder to just back down until you were at point blank range, which Shaq liked to do. He lacked mobility, upper body strength and stamina. If he had 2 of those 3 he would have been firmly in tier 2. Which I define as:

Tier 1: Hakeem, Shaq, Admiral, Ewing
Tier 2: Mourning, Daugherty, Mutombo
Tier 3: Divac, Smits, Seikaly, Campbell

[Reggie43]

Thats fair but him having the ability to up his play in the playoffs plus lacking the proper mins like some of you have said makes him really hard to gauge.

[Phoenix]

I mean as far as gauging him, it's pretty clear to me at his best the guys in tier 1 and 2 were better players. The tier 3 guys weren't anchors on the level of those guys but they were important cogs in their teams fortunes.

Bear in mind though, a playoff run like 95( which at 17 games is a fair sample size) , he averaged 33 minutes and 20ppg on 55% shooting against playoff competition. So his scoring did scale up when his minutes did. He had a couple other 20ppg runs but they were one and done first rounds.It seems in-between that 94 to 98 period his regular season numbers were muted because he wasn't playing normal starter minutes. He was probably like a 20/8 guy ability-wise but the aforementioned limitations of health and stamina brought his numbers down to 17/7 in that space( which if we're being honest, any team without the tier 1 and 2 guys would gladly take).

[Reggie43]

I mean as far as gauging him, it's pretty clear to me at his best the guys in tier 1 and 2 were better players. The tier 3 guys weren't anchors on the level of those guys but they were important cogs in their teams fortunes.

Bear in mind though, a playoff run like 95( which at 17 games is a fair sample size) , he averaged 33 minutes and 20ppg on 55% shooting against playoff competition. So his scoring did scale up when his minutes did. He had a couple other 20ppg runs but they were one and done first rounds.It seems in-between that 94 to 98 period his regular season numbers were muted because he wasn't playing normal starter minutes. He was probably like a 20/8 guy ability-wise but the aforementioned limitations of health and stamina brought his numbers down to 17/7 in that space( which if we're being honest, any team without the tier 1 and 2 guys would gladly take).

Agreed. Ability wise he was much better than his actual numbers, on offense atleast.

[insidehoops]

In terms of impact and ability not including his playoff resume. Which group/tier of players does he belong to?

The most similar player to him is Ilgauskas with the skillset, stats and height but he is obviously a much better/effective scorer than him.

Is it fair to put him on the same tier of players like Baker, Divac, Seikaly, Jayson Williams or even Elden Campbell?

Which player give a similar impact as Smits in the modern nba?


Good thoughts. Bumping this.

[Whoah10115]

Ewing and Oakley are all-time defenders, and in his time Mase was elite and if more consistently a starter is up there too. The 90s Knicks are still the best defensive team I've ever seen.

Smits gave us so many problems. Like with Reggie, the team didn't play to him. A true, equal opportunity offense.

I do think McKey, who has always been intensely respected AND admired, wasn't quite what he should have been. He was too passive. He could have been an all-star every season. People don't realize how good he was, how highly he was regarded, how many guys coming into the league in the mid-late 90s tried to emulate his game. Guys like Van Horn, who was almost really great, loved him.

If he were more aggressive, the Pacers could have beat the Magic. Smits was so good, gave problems that no stats will show. Shaq is obsessed with stats, but he gave it up to guys who gave it to him.

Smits gave it to everybody. The only reason he wasn't elite was some combination off fitness/conditioning and lack of motor/cognitive whatever. 1v1 he was a nightmare.

[Reggie43]

Ewing and Oakley are all-time defenders, and in his time Mase was elite and if more consistently a starter is up there too. The 90s Knicks are still the best defensive team I've ever seen.

Smits gave us so many problems. Like with Reggie, the team didn't play to him. A true, equal opportunity offense.

I do think McKey, who has always been intensely respected AND admired, wasn't quite what he should have been. He was too passive. He could have been an all-star every season. People don't realize how good he was, how highly he was regarded, how many guys coming into the league in the mid-late 90s tried to emulate his game. Guys like Van Horn, who was almost really great, loved him.

If he were more aggressive, the Pacers could have beat the Magic. Smits was so good, gave problems that no stats will show. Shaq is obsessed with stats, but he gave it up to guys who gave it to him.

Smits gave it to everybody. The only reason he wasn't elite was some combination off fitness/conditioning and lack of motor/cognitive whatever. 1v1 he was a nightmare.

One of the better posts about the Pacers that I have read in here. Thanks for this.

[Whoah10115]

One of the better posts about the Pacers that I have read in here. Thanks for this.

:pimp: