What would modern NBA look like without the 3pt line?

[oldtimer28]

Would be interesting to see a trial without it.

How would the game change?

better/worse?

biggest winners and losers?

Obviously lower scores but I think shooters/floor spacing will always be valuable.

[MrFonzworth]

Hard to say.

[Phoenix]

With no reason to shoot at distance for extra reward( 3>2), a return to emphasis on post play and shot-making in tighter spaces I would assume. IMO theres 2 ways to neutralize the effect of the 3 on todays game:

1) return to the 22 foot 3 pointer( or as ISH calls it, the WNBA line). You're thinking why on earth would you give Steph Curry an 'easier' 3 point line but the idea is to condense the court so it's not so spaced out, giving defenses a better chance to close out on shooters and not totally compromise the interior if the shooter is run off the line and makes a move towards the basket

2) Extend the line out to 25 and eliminate the corner 3. Yes, you're spacing it out further but it will be a shot for the truly elite of the elite who have the range to take that kind of shot, and otherwise force offenses and defenses in. A layup/ dunk would actually be an earned shot again.

I think I prefer number 1. The changes to the product at face value is less effected than how the court would look with no corner 3 and how differently teams would play as a result

[Akeem34TheDream]

They should remove the 3pt shot. And fouls too. What's that gay shit? Faster and stronger should win. Just like in the nature.

[MrFonzworth]

With no reason to shoot at distance for extra reward( 3>2), a return to emphasis on post play and shot-making in tighter spaces I would assume. IMO theres 2 ways to neutralize the effect of the 3 on todays game:

1) return to the 22 foot 3 pointer( or as ISH calls it, the WNBA line). You're thinking why on earth would you give Steph Curry an 'easier' 3 point line but the idea is to condense the court so it's not so spaced out, giving defenses a better chance to close out on shooters and not totally compromise the interior if the shooter is run off the line and makes a move towards the basket

2) Extend the line out to 25 and eliminate the corner 3. Yes, you're spacing it out further but it will be a shot for the truly elite of the elite who have the range to take that kind of shot, and otherwise force offenses and defenses in. A layup/ dunk would actually be an earned shot again.

I think I prefer number 1. The changes to the product at face value is less effected than how the court would look with no corner 3 and how differently teams would play as a result

1 won't work. Players are already shooting 3s 5 feet behind the line, making the line closer won't force players to play on the line.

[Phoenix]

1 won't work. Players are already shooting 3s 5 feet behind the line, making the line closer won't force players to play on the line.

How many do that with any consistency though? Steph? Dame? Durant? So that's an argument for extending the line out then. The 3point shot has become the bachelor degree of basketball skills: everyone's got one and it's cheapened the effect. When you got someone like KAT shooting 41% on 8 attempts ( he takes 18 shoots a game), the pendulum has swung too far. It was already weird enough having guys like Steph and Harden taking more 3s than 2s. No we got centers inching up on that?

There needs to be some way to allow the defense better chance to cover the court. I've heard of people saying to cut off the number of 3s you can take but that's an un-natural rule change. Position-less basketball sounds fine until every player starts picking up the same habits and traits because the rules and 'analitiks' now says everyone should be shooting a 24 footer.

[NBAGOAT]

You want post play back may have to go back to the old illegal defense rules. There’s no Shaq anymore who’s literally unfair to guard 1v1.

It’s too easy for teams to have multiple defenders shade towards a post scorer while not allowing a wide open jumper.

Kat came into the league with and still has plenty of post scoring skill but there’s strategic reason he made such a big change to his game.

[sdot_thadon]

Umm it would be borderline unbearably ugly without zone rules also going away with it. We'd see some of the lowest scoring games ever, high school scores. But on 2nd thought, players and coaches would adapt and figure out whatever strategy works best in the given situation like always, i think the transition would be horrible however.

[Bronbron23]

i think the better solution is to allow for as much physicality defensively on the perimeter as they allow in the post. Why go in the post where guys can hand check, arm bar and use there body to bang you when you can just step out on the perimeter where nobody can barely get close to you.

[insidehoops]

With no reason to shoot at distance for extra reward( 3>2), a return to emphasis on post play and shot-making in tighter spaces I would assume. IMO theres 2 ways to neutralize the effect of the 3 on todays game:

1) return to the 22 foot 3 pointer( or as ISH calls it, the WNBA line). You're thinking why on earth would you give Steph Curry an 'easier' 3 point line but the idea is to condense the court so it's not so spaced out, giving defenses a better chance to close out on shooters and not totally compromise the interior if the shooter is run off the line and makes a move towards the basket

2) Extend the line out to 25 and eliminate the corner 3. Yes, you're spacing it out further but it will be a shot for the truly elite of the elite who have the range to take that kind of shot, and otherwise force offenses and defenses in. A layup/ dunk would actually be an earned shot again.

I think I prefer number 1. The changes to the product at face value is less effected than how the court would look with no corner 3 and how differently teams would play as a result

Good post.

[HoopsNY]

With no reason to shoot at distance for extra reward( 3>2), a return to emphasis on post play and shot-making in tighter spaces I would assume. IMO theres 2 ways to neutralize the effect of the 3 on todays game:

1) return to the 22 foot 3 pointer( or as ISH calls it, the WNBA line). You're thinking why on earth would you give Steph Curry an 'easier' 3 point line but the idea is to condense the court so it's not so spaced out, giving defenses a better chance to close out on shooters and not totally compromise the interior if the shooter is run off the line and makes a move towards the basket

2) Extend the line out to 25 and eliminate the corner 3. Yes, you're spacing it out further but it will be a shot for the truly elite of the elite who have the range to take that kind of shot, and otherwise force offenses and defenses in. A layup/ dunk would actually be an earned shot again.

I think I prefer number 1. The changes to the product at face value is less effected than how the court would look with no corner 3 and how differently teams would play as a result

Or they could just bring back hand checking and watch the 3 pt shots drop dramatically.

[999Guy]

Or they could just bring back hand checking and watch the 3 pt shots drop dramatically.

Dumb.

[Lebron23]

Or they could just bring back hand checking and watch the 3 pt shots drop dramatically.

I don't think so. Players today are just better 3 points shooters.

[Round Mound]

Guys like Shaq, Barkley and Lebron would feast on the 2-pointer.

[Phoenix]

Or they could just bring back hand checking and watch the 3 pt shots drop dramatically.

I dont think they'd go that far now. They enjoy the perimeter free-flowing movement which allows the best ball handlers to showcase their stuff.

[iamgine]

Players would attack the rim more, resulting in more fouls. More fouls = more FT. More FT = more unwatchable.

We should add a 4 point line.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qsjsnJhzbLA/maxresdefault.jpg

[Bronbron23]

Dumb.

this is absolutely on point. If they brought back hand checking and physical defense, perimeter shooting would absolutely be effected. You cant touch anyone anymore. You cant contest shots because you cant land near anyone. You cant even make contact with screeners and fight through screens or its a foul. Whats funny is the league put this in there mandate for this desired outcome and peoe like you still dont believe it. So whos really the dumb one?

[imdaman99]

Players would attack the rim more, resulting in more fouls. More fouls = more FT. More FT = more unwatchable.

We should add a 4 point line.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qsjsnJhzbLA/maxresdefault.jpg

This. I don't see the NBA going backwards, like taking out the corner 3s. Kids love the shots Curry and Dame and Trae take... because if they make it, it'll be in the highlights. The next gen that have watched this are already ruined, I see it at my park all the time. OH WE HAVE POINT GAME? LET ME TAKE A 30 FOOTER BECAUSE YOLO THATS WHAT CURRY WOULD DO

[Phoenix]

this is absolutely on point. If they brought back hand checking and physical defense, perimeter shooting would absolutely be effected. You cant touch anyone anymore. You cant contest shots because you cant land near anyone. You cant even make contact with screeners and fight through screens or its a foul. Whats funny is the league put this in there mandate for this desired outcome and peoe like you still dont believe it. So whos really the dumb one?

Since the argument I see nowadays is that the 'players are more skilled now'.....in theory more physical defense shouldn't impede them too much. The 'higher skill level' should balance it out? :confusedshrug: So by all means, if out of mere curiosity, I'd like to see Harden, Curry and Kyrie iso-dancing on guys with a hand on their hip.

[Bronbron23]

Since the argument I see nowadays is that the 'players are more skilled now'.....in theory more physical defense shouldn't impede them too much. The 'higher skill level' should balance it out? :confusedshrug: So by all means, if out of mere curiosity, I'd like to see Harden, Curry and Kyrie iso-dancing on guys with a hand on their hip.

Are they more skilled though? This argument is mostly based on the improved 3 point shooting but whats been gained in that erea has been lost in other areas. The mid range and post play is worse now so i wouldn't say the skill overall is better now its just different.

And how much of this improved 3 point shooting is a result of the rules? If you dont think increased physical play impacts shooting just look at the playoffs. Playoffs are much more physical than the regular season and refs let alot more go. Go look at how physical some of the cavs/warriors finals were and how much it impacted the efficiency of the greatest shooter ever.

So it definitely impacts shooting. How much is kind of hard to say. Proponents of this era say not at all and Proponents of previous era's say alot. Like most things the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.

[Phoenix]

Are they more skilled though? This argument is mostly based on the improved 3 point shooting but whats been gained in that erea has been lost in other areas. The mid range and post play is worse now so i wouldn't say the skill overall is better now its just different.

And how much of this improved 3 point shooting is a result of the rules? If you dont think increased physical play impacts shooting just look at the playoffs. Playoffs are much more physical than the regular season and refs let alot more go. Go look at how physical some of the cavs/warriors finals were and how much it impacted the efficiency of the greatest shooter ever.

So it definitely impacts shooting. How much is kind of hard to say. Proponents of this era say not at all and Proponents of previous era's say alot. Like most things the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.

I'm just going off what a site like this, especially the section that likes to undermine past eras, like to say. As you said, skills in other areas have been lost. Older points like Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Rod Strickland, Kenny Anderson, guys know for their handles back then, I'm sure they'd love access to the modern loose whistle and coming along in the post and-1 era. Hell, take Isiah and dump him into 2020 with what current players can get away with.

[Bronbron23]

I'm just going off what a site like this, especially the section that likes to undermine past eras, like to say. As you said, skills in other areas have been lost. Older points like Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Rod Strickland, Kenny Anderson, guys know for their handles back then, I'm sure they'd love access to the modern loose whistle and coming along in the post and-1 era. Hell, take Isiah and dump him into 2020 with what current players can get away with.

yeah i hated isiah and Pistons back in the day but he's become very underrated. Hed be a problem in any era.

[NBAGOAT]

Are they more skilled though? This argument is mostly based on the improved 3 point shooting but whats been gained in that erea has been lost in other areas. The mid range and post play is worse now so i wouldn't say the skill overall is better now its just different.

And how much of this improved 3 point shooting is a result of the rules? If you dont think increased physical play impacts shooting just look at the playoffs. Playoffs are much more physical than the regular season and refs let alot more go. Go look at how physical some of the cavs/warriors finals were and how much it impacted the efficiency of the greatest shooter ever.

So it definitely impacts shooting. How much is kind of hard to say. Proponents of this era say not at all and Proponents of previous era's say alot. Like most things the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.

handchecking and allowing defenders to really fight through screens are 2 different things imo. a few guys iso more but a lot of guys especially outside the top guys take most of their pull up 3's coming off screens or in transition. The offball guys use screens even more. if they allowed defenders to get away with a lot fighting through screens that admittedly has a big impact but the reverse is they may allow more physicality on offense too which means you'll see more illegal screens so idk.

Add on kicking out to shooters will always be a thing even if post scoring came back heavily so spot up guys will always be a big part of roster construction and dont get too impacted by physicality unless a team is significantly worse at driving/having their star attract any type of double. you will rarely see a kickout for a 20 footer from the the top of the key which was common even ten years ago, it's a stupid play now.

Playoffs you see a dropoff but you guys usually overstate the change because that's the impression of the eye test. Not saying it's not significant 1% for a large sample is more significant than most people think but it's just not a huge difference

Shooting last 5 years 3pa/fga and 3pt%

2019 RS: 32/89.2 35.5% PS: 32.9/87 34.5%
2018 RS: 29/86.1 36.2% PS: 29.9/84.2 35.1%
2017 RS: 27/85.4 35.8% PS: 29.1/83.7 36.1%
2016 RS: 24.1/84.6 35.4% PS: 25.8/83.1 35.4%
2015 RS: 22.4/83.6 35% PS: 25.5/84.5 34.4%

[Phoenix]

Playoffs you see a dropoff but you guys usually overstate the change because that's the impression of the eye test. Not saying it's not significant 1% for a large sample is more significant than most people think but it's just not a huge difference

Shooting last 5 years 3pa/fga and 3pt%

2019 RS: 32/89.2 35.5% PS: 32.9/87 34.5%
2018 RS: 29/86.1 36.2% PS: 29.9/84.2 35.1%
2017 RS: 27/85.4 35.8% PS: 29.1/83.7 36.1%
2016 RS: 24.1/84.6 35.4% PS: 25.8/83.1 35.4%
2015 RS: 22.4/83.6 35% PS: 25.5/84.5 34.4%

It's more an issue for guys where the 3 is a major part of their game like Harden and Curry. Harden's 3P% dropped to sub 30% in 17 and 18. It rose up again in 19. Curry's dipped under 40% in 18 and 19. These are guys who take the three for half of their shots. I'm inclined to think it's a combination of the more physical defense and that around May or June when everyone's legs are tired, the 3 point shot is the first thing to waver a bit. That's where guys like KD and Kawhi nowadays hold up better in the playoffs, the ability to generate offense in the mid-range *when the 3 is not there* is still a very valuable weapon.

[NBAGOAT]

It's more an issue for guys where the 3 is a major part of their game like Harden and Curry. Harden's 3P% dropped to sub 30% in 17 and 18. It rose up again in 19. Curry's dipped under 40% in 18 and 19. These are guys who take the three for half of their shots. I'm inclined to think it's a combination of the more physical defense and that around May or June when everyone's legs are tired, the 3 point shot is the first thing to waver a bit. That's where guys like KD and Kawhi nowadays hold up better in the playoffs, the ability to generate offense in the mid-range *when the 3 is not there* is still a very valuable weapon.

yea generating midrange on your own can definitely have value. Harden i'm confident has the ability(just an easier stepback), he just never will in hou. I still think a decent portion of playoff struggles come from variance however. reggie miller was a great playoff performer in a physical era taking maybe 40% of his shots from 3. Granted he's not a common case. variance will affect all shots outside the paint though less so for closer ones so kawhi and kd arent immune. Kawhi's been pretty consistentin his career but kd had issues in okc with efficiency.

[Bronbron23]

handchecking and allowing defenders to really fight through screens are 2 different things imo. a few guys iso more but a lot of guys especially outside the top guys take most of their pull up 3's coming off screens or in transition. The offball guys use screens even more. if they allowed defenders to get away with a lot fighting through screens that admittedly has a big impact but the reverse is they may allow more physicality on offense too which means you'll see more illegal screens so idk.

Add on kicking out to shooters will always be a thing even if post scoring came back heavily so spot up guys will always be a big part of roster construction and dont get too impacted by physicality unless a team is significantly worse at driving/having their star attract any type of double. you will rarely see a kickout for a 20 footer from the the top of the key which was common even ten years ago, it's a stupid play now.

Playoffs you see a dropoff but you guys usually overstate the change because that's the impression of the eye test. Not saying it's not significant 1% for a large sample is more significant than most people think but it's just not a huge difference

Shooting last 5 years 3pa/fga and 3pt%

2019 RS: 32/89.2 35.5% PS: 32.9/87 34.5%
2018 RS: 29/86.1 36.2% PS: 29.9/84.2 35.1%
2017 RS: 27/85.4 35.8% PS: 29.1/83.7 36.1%
2016 RS: 24.1/84.6 35.4% PS: 25.8/83.1 35.4%
2015 RS: 22.4/83.6 35% PS: 25.5/84.5 34.4%

Well league average may not change a whole lot but i just know from watching that some guys have to work way harder to get looks than when they play in the reg season. This applies more to star players than role guys because role players usually get open looks no matter what the ara because the defense is always more focused on the star players. If you look at guys like bron, steph and harden they often have a harder time getting quality looks in the post season. Against the tougher more physical defenses anyway. Look at someone like kat who gets easy looks all day in the regular season and then come playoff time when things get more physical he really struggled.

And this obviously wont apply to everyone. Someone like kd who can just rise over you or kawhi whos great at creating space for jumpers it wont effect as much.

[Phoenix]

yea generating midrange on your own can definitely have value. Harden i'm confident has the ability(just an easier stepback), he just never will in hou. I still think a decent portion of playoff struggles come from variance however. reggie miller was a great playoff performer in a physical era taking maybe 40% of his shots from 3. Granted he's not a common case. variance will affect all shots outside the paint though less so for closer ones so kawhi and kd arent immune. Kawhi's been pretty consistentin his career but kd had issues in okc with efficiency.

There's been alot of talk about Reggie on the forum recently and I won't regurgitate alot of stuff I've already said, but Reggie had different responsibilities in that he really only had to focus on scoring. Harden and Steph have primary facilitating roles on their teams as well as their scoring ones ( and at higher volume).

[warriorfan]

It would be all about big athletic wings. Even more so than now. Prime Wade would be the prototype player.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Players would still have more room because of paint rules. More leeway for their handles too. Traveling and footwork aren't as rigid either.

Would be a softer but 'more skilled' version of the game - before the outset of threes.

[Carbine]

With no reason to shoot at distance for extra reward( 3>2), a return to emphasis on post play and shot-making in tighter spaces I would assume. IMO theres 2 ways to neutralize the effect of the 3 on todays game:

1) return to the 22 foot 3 pointer( or as ISH calls it, the WNBA line). You're thinking why on earth would you give Steph Curry an 'easier' 3 point line but the idea is to condense the court so it's not so spaced out, giving defenses a better chance to close out on shooters and not totally compromise the interior if the shooter is run off the line and makes a move towards the basket

2) Extend the line out to 25 and eliminate the corner 3. Yes, you're spacing it out further but it will be a shot for the truly elite of the elite who have the range to take that kind of shot, and otherwise force offenses and defenses in. A layup/ dunk would actually be an earned shot again.

I think I prefer number 1. The changes to the product at face value is less effected than how the court would look with no corner 3 and how differently teams would play as a result

Why would shrinking the line matter in terms of shrinking the floor? Players could just space out where they normally would. The dimensions of the court don't shrink.

[tpols]

it would also cripple spacing. There would be no need for guys to stand 25 feet from the hoop for their dribbling teammates because a 25 foot 2pter is statistically gonna be one of the worst shots you could take. A lot of players like harden, giannis types would be hurt by it because it would be way harder to iso from the top.

[AirBonner]

The NBA actually doesn’t call hand checking in the playoffs

[Bronbron23]

The NBA actually doesn’t call hand checking in the playoffs

And the result is alot of shooters efficiency drops. Steph is no longer a god and lebron goes from a good three point shooter to michael jordan.

[AirBonner]

And the result is alot of shooters efficiency drops. Steph is no longer a god and lebron goes from a good three point shooter to michael jordan.

LeBrons drop off is still MJ level. Godly.

[Phoenix]

Why would shrinking the line matter in terms of shrinking the floor? Players could just space out where they normally would. The dimensions of the court don't shrink.

So your contention is that if the line is moved in to 22 feet, the players will still take their 25 foot shots regardless?

[JohnMax]

Same reason many older people dislike today's NBA, tbh: pros making more $ than ever and the decline of the white American basketball player..

You have to look for the coded language..

Lack of fundamentals: Lack of white American players
Reliant on athleticism: Lack of white American players
Too much 3-point shooting: The only advantage that white American players had is gone
Cap explosion: These blacks are making too much $

[Lebron23]

Same reason many older people dislike today's NBA, tbh: pros making more $ than ever and the decline of the white American basketball player..

You have to look for the coded language..

Lack of fundamentals: Lack of white American players
Reliant on athleticism: Lack of white American players
Too much 3-point shooting: The only advantage that white American players had is gone
Cap explosion: These blacks are making too much $

Just shut the hell up

[999Guy]

this is absolutely on point. If they brought back hand checking and physical defense, perimeter shooting would absolutely be effected. You cant touch anyone anymore. You cant contest shots because you cant land near anyone. You cant even make contact with screeners and fight through screens or its a foul. Whats funny is the league put this in there mandate for this desired outcome and peoe like you still dont believe it. So whos really the dumb one?you and him

3P shooting is never ever going back to previous levels and no strategy or rule change would stop that.


3P shooting took a huge boom way after handcheck changes.

Handchecking isn’t even out of the game. It happens every single game and especially every single playoff run.

Teams have built whole strategy’s on handchecking in the modern era. Thibs’ and Pop coached teams have been ridiculous on physicality.

Handchecking was even called in the 80’s and 90’s. It has nothing to do with teams realizing even off dribble 3’s are better than mid-range jumpers of any kind.


Handchecking is one of the biggest myths of all-time. It’s prevalence, impact, and supposed disappearance. PJ Tucker would be on a sex offenders lost for half the shit he’s done in the past 3 postseasons.

[Bronbron23]

you and him

3P shooting is never ever going back to previous levels and no strategy or rule change would stop that.


3P shooting took a huge boom way after handcheck changes.

Handchecking isn’t even out of the game. It happens every single game and especially every single playoff run.

Teams have built whole strategy’s on handchecking in the modern era. Thibs’ and Pop coached teams have been ridiculous on physicality.

Handchecking was even called in the 80’s and 90’s. It has nothing to do with teams realizing even off dribble 3’s are better than mid-range jumpers of any kind.


Handchecking is one of the biggest myths of all-time. It’s prevalence, impact, and supposed disappearance. PJ Tucker would be on a sex offenders lost for half the shit he’s done in the past 3 postseasons.

I never said 3 point shoot should go back to where it was but allowing more physical play on the perimeter would definitely lower guys efficiency as ive already proved.

And no hand checking isnt totally out of the game but you can barely do it in the regular season. Playoffs they let it go more and consequently alot of players efficiency drops.

Lastly its not just hand checking. You cant contest shots because everyone flops and if you land anywhere near them its a foul. You cant fight through screens because its a foul. Theyve just made it super hard to defend the perimeter. This isnt even debatable

[Bronbron23]

LeBrons drop off is still MJ level. Godly.

So mj is bum from 3 when it convenient but when its not hes a god. Bron stans are awesome

[jayfan]

It would be a much better game.



.

[HoopsNY]

I don't think so. Players today are just better 3 points shooters.

I agree that they are. That doesn't mean that hand checking wouldn't decrease the overall number of threes made and attempted per game.