Was Lamar Odom the Pippen of the Lakers 08-11 run? (Pau exposed inside)

[HBK_Kliq_2]

2005 grizzles: 17-9 record without Pau Gasol
28-28 record with Pau Gasol

2006 Grizzlies: Battier on, Gasol off: 92.5 DRtg

Battier on, Gasol on: 101.0 DRtg

Battier off, Gasol off: 104.9 DRtg

Battier off, Gasol on: 106.3 DRtg

2007 Grizzles: With Pau in the starting lineup, Grizzles had a record of 17-42.

2008 Grizzles: Pau leads Grizzles to a 32-34 record before being traded to Lakers

The Lakers defense from 08-11 was basically the same with and without Pau (104.8 DRtg on, 104.3 DRtg off

The Lakers were the #1 defense in the league without Pau and with Lamar Odom in 09 and 2010

Lamar leaves Lakers in 2011 and they never come close to winning anything again.

[tpols]

pau was pretty clearly better... but odom actually went off too. i hear people name drop bynum more, when he was putting up kevin looney numbers in championships.

[999Guy]

It was more like having two peak Horace Grants, versus a Pippen and so on.

According to all impact stats, Odom was clearly and consistently better due to really underrated defense. The gap was in Pau’s favor offensively but not by a massive gap.

When Odom was in, he was doing things that made every player better on both ends, in ways Pau didn’t. Even if Pau clearly had a more polished traditional skill set.

[tpols]

It was more like having two peak Horace Grants, versus a Pippen and so on.

According to all impact stats, Odom was clearly and consistently better due to really underrated defense. The gap was in Pau’s favor offensively but not by a massive gap.

When Odom was in, he was doing things that made every player better on both ends, in ways Pau didn’t. Even if Pau clearly had a more polished traditional skill set.

pau's offensive gap was kind of big. Through both titles he outscored Odom 19 ppg to 11 ppg on much better efficiency. I do agree odom is better defensively, but not by a margin big enough to make up for the offense. and odom's offense was very good, pau's was just pretty much elite.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

pau was pretty clearly better... but odom actually went off too. i hear people name drop bynum more, when he was putting up kevin looney numbers in championships.


It was more like having two peak Horace Grants, versus a Pippen and so on.

According to all impact stats, Odom was clearly and consistently better due to really underrated defense. The gap was in Pau’s favor offensively but not by a massive gap.

When Odom was in, he was doing things that made every player better on both ends, in ways Pau didn’t. Even if Pau clearly had a more polished traditional skill set.

Pau was great on offense but his defense impact is very alarming. 2005 Grizzles were playing way better without Pau playing at all which is odd. 2006 Battier was great. 2007 Pau was by himself and grizzles were 30th ranked.

Also if you watch the series via YouTube of 2008 WCF Spurs/ Lakers series, it was Odom's help defense that was frustrating the hell out of Tim Duncan. So Odom was very Pippen lite during that run.

While Pau was on pace to be a Karl Anthony Towns type player/career until he played with Kobe's offense and Lamar's defense.

[iamgine]

Pau was not known for his defense but iirc it was decent in the Lakers. Not atrocious or anything like that. Perhaps it was a better system for him.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Pau was not known for his defense but iirc it was decent in the Lakers. Not atrocious or anything like that. Perhaps it was a better system for him.

Pau is strange because he was a decent shotblocker but his presence didn't translate to defense impact. Modern day comparison: Karl Anthony Towns

Marc Gasol is the opposite I think. Great defense but mediocre offense. Modern day comparison: gobert

Back to the thread, I see Pau/Odom as kind of like Manu/Parker. Pau/Parker have the traditional stats that can fool the casual eye. Manu/Odom are the ones with that second star "robin" impact.

[iamgine]

Pau is strange because he was a decent shotblocker but his presence didn't translate to defense impact. Modern day comparison: Karl Anthony Towns

Marc Gasol is the opposite I think. Great defense but mediocre offense. Modern day comparison: gobert

Back to the thread, I see Pau/Odom as kind of like Manu/Parker. Pau/Parker have the traditional stats that can fool the casual eye. Manu/Odom are the ones with that second star "robin" impact.
I'm not sure Odom was that good. He might be underrated but to say he's better than Pau just doesn't seem correct when I watched them. Pau was a great fit for the triangle system.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I'm not sure Odom was that good. He might be underrated but to say he's better than Pau just doesn't seem correct when I watched them. Pau was a great fit for the triangle system.

Lamar was the clear defensive anchor
Kobe was the clear offensive anchor

That leaves Gasol as the good but lonely 3rd wheel

[iamgine]

Lamar was the clear defensive anchor
Kobe was the clear offensive anchor

That leaves Gasol as the good but lonely 3rd wheel
ehh...okay

[aceman]

2005 grizzles: 17-9 record without Pau Gasol
28-28 record with Pau Gasol

2006 Grizzlies: Battier on, Gasol off: 92.5 DRtg

Battier on, Gasol on: 101.0 DRtg

Battier off, Gasol off: 104.9 DRtg

Battier off, Gasol on: 106.3 DRtg

2007 Grizzles: With Pau in the starting lineup, Grizzles had a record of 17-42.

2008 Grizzles: Pau leads Grizzles to a 32-34 record before being traded to Lakers

The Lakers defense from 08-11 was basically the same with and without Pau (104.8 DRtg on, 104.3 DRtg off

The Lakers were the #1 defense in the league without Pau and with Lamar Odom in 09 and 2010

Lamar leaves Lakers in 2011 and they never come close to winning anything again.

Lamar + Pau = Scottie

[3ball]

How hard is it to get 16/6/5 on terrible efficiency with virtually zero clutch burden, while your defensive assignment gets theirs in every series?

Pippen had the easiest job of any "sidekick" ever

[aceman]

How hard is it to get 16/6/5 on terrible efficiency with virtually zero clutch burden, while your defensive assignment gets theirs in every series?

Pippen had the easiest job of any "sidekick" ever

Clutch burden is not a thing

[GimmeThat]

it would be like calling the triangle offense an equal opportunity offense, only how is it even equal opportunity, when it requires geniuses to run around, so the over developed ape can score.

[Roundball_Rock]

Wasn't Gasol leading the Lakers, including Kobe, in many of the advanced stats those years?

[ArbitraryWater]

Pau is strange because he was a decent shotblocker but his presence didn't translate to defense impact. Modern day comparison: Karl Anthony Towns

Marc Gasol is the opposite I think. Great defense but mediocre offense. Modern day comparison: gobert

Back to the thread, I see Pau/Odom as kind of like Manu/Parker. Pau/Parker have the traditional stats that can fool the casual eye. Manu/Odom are the ones with that second star "robin" impact.

Pau and KAT are nothing alike defensively

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Wasn't Gasol leading the Lakers, including Kobe, in many of the advanced stats those years?

Yes but I think that has mostly to do with offensive impact. Lamar sticks out as the defensive anchor is all I'm saying. Pau's offense was still incredibly valuable.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Pau and KAT are nothing alike defensively

His career seemed to be going that route prior to Lakers trade. Grizzles were an embarrassing defense with Gasol in 2007/08.