Coiln Cowherd: Kawhi top 5 GOAT if he wins championship/finals this year

[Phoenix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUn8IwlTMpo

Our resident Kawhi stan HBK_Kliq_2 would approve of this one.

First half of the segment is comparing Lebron to Wilt so skip to 5:55. The basic jist of his argument is that when you start looking at guys who've won a title and a DPOY, or a title w/FMVP with 2 different teams he's in some pretty exclusive and legendary company. He, of course, would be the exclusive member of the 'win a title and FMVP with 3 different teams' club.

The arguments against this will of course start with load management, being a (very good) role player for his first FMVP, joining already established teams, less than spectacular career stats and totals, a short ( so far) timeframe of being an actual All-NBA level player, no MVPs, yadda yadda.

So ISH...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/2c49afbf1220250177a3125586d01571/tenor.gif?itemid=5316496

[Phoenix]

What I get making a thread before my first cup of coffee :facepalm. 'Colin' and should be 'championship/finals MVP' in the title.

As you were.....

[GimmeThat]

especially for his age, the case can be made. the case against it? too much stock has been put into the bills uncle Sam been paying its citizen.

[Uncle Drew]

Kawhi gets held to such funny standards. He's been an All-NBA performer for what, 4 years? He's a cherry picker at its finest, with ridiculous load management, holding the Spurs hostage, and yet not a single beep. That's how you know he's not really a top 10 player, because everyone else would get scrutinized for such antics. I don't give a shit about Kobe, but he would've been put in a guillotine for doing said things.

[SouBeachTalents]

You shouldn't be rewarded for winning FMVP's on multiple teams. I get the argument that it shows you can win with multiple supporting casts, but it's dumb to penalize the majority of top 10 players for sticking with one team.

I'd also wager Colin isn't aware the DPOY didn't exist until 1982, preventing several other players like Russell, Wilt, Kareem, even Walton in his brief prime from joining that list too.

Not much needs to be said, besides the psychotic Kawhi stan on here nobody would agree with this. Ignoring his extremely brief longevity, he failed to mention Kawhi was a 14 ppg role player when he won his first FMVP.

Him bringing up the all-star MVP as a legitimate argument was :lol though

[dbugz]

Kawhi making it to the top 5 before libron, can't blame the dude. very accurate analysis.

[ImKobe]

Cowherd's NBA takes are always terrible.

Kawhi would not have a top 5 all-time resume. He doesn't have enough seasons as an elite player, this would be his 2nd season as the best player in the Playoffs, that is not enough to be ahead of guys like Duncan, Shaq, Bird & Kobe, who had much longer stretches of being top 5 in the league and playing full seasons. That being said, you could argue him as a top 10 all-time player if he won another ring as the best player. The first FMVP run obviously wasn't that great when compared to the runs other greats have had, but I'd have to put him in that Hakeem tier after a 2nd one. Kawhi dismantling Giannis reminded me of Hakeem sonning D-Rob when he won MVP in '95. Kawhi is an elite 2-way player so he's already top 10 all-time for me in terms of skill, but he needs at least 2 runs as the clear #1 option to be in that top 10 all-time conversation.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kawhi making it to the top 5 before libron, can't blame the dude. very accurate analysis.
He had LeBron top 2 in his analysis :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

You shouldn't be rewarded for winning FMVP's on multiple teams. I get the argument that it shows you can win with multiple supporting casts, but it's dumb to penalize the majority of top 10 players for sticking with one team.



I tend to feel the same way. It's kind of rewarding a lack of staying the course with your team and building around you. Of course if your team lacks the front office management, then I don't blame a guy for leaving. But I dont give a guy winning 2 FMVPs with 2 teams extra brownie points over the guy who did it with one.

Look at someone like Dirk for example. A 20 year career and played with so many guys that it had the same effect of playing on multiple teams. He just happened to be the one constant. Which is why his 2011 run and singular title holds so much weight( as it should IMO). Could he have joined a ready made team and won more titles? Sure, but KD has shown the perils of taking that path in terms of public perception.

[warriorfan]

Colin cowherd is the worst. Somewhat low iq type guy. Boring hot takes such as “Matt Ryan is better than Aaron Rogers”. Little to no insight. Relies on juvenile “I’m going to say the opposite” tactics to get any sort of ratings.


Final Verdict: Piece of shit

[bobopenguin]

ok so what if kawhi didnt win?
will Colin kicks kawhi out of this top 5 GOAT list forever?

[HoopsNY]

Cowherd and Nick Wright are two of the worst when it comes to their NBA analysis. In this case, it's really strange how he asserts Kawhi being top 5 IF he wins the FMVP/title. So the question is, if he doesn't, does that make him 6th all time already? It's an odd take that he has that has no logic.

Kawhi is a great player. I think he's a lot better than most people on here but I wouldn't hasten to rank him so high until he retires. Let's see what he can do over the next 4-5 seasons before anointing him such a high status.

[Phoenix]

That's a good question Hoops. Where does Colin have him now? Kawhi already has 2 rings/fmvps on 2 squads, all star mvp( meaningless but whatever) and DPOY. What does that currently make him?

[Doranku]

The thing is... Kawhi has only been an elite player for FOUR seasons. Gotta sustain greatness for longer than that to enter the top 10, let alone top 5.

[guy]

This is an absurd take. Maybe the worst example I can remember of a media guy putting so much emphasis on resume completely ignoring context.

First off, that 2014 FMVP should not count for much. Its not more meaningful to me than any of Kobe’s first 3 rings for example. I still don’t even think he should’ve won the award over Duncan.

Second, like others have said, the “extra credit” guys are trying to give him for winning 3 rings/FMVPs with 3 different teams makes no sense. I’ve heard the same argument for Lebron for if he wins one with LA. This is an arbitrary achievement. You can’t penalize guys who never felt any reason to go out of their way to try to set this achievement. On top of that, if I’m assessing greatness as in who would I want to build with the objective of winning the most titles as possible, this type of unloyalty, indecisiveness, and/or wanting to move around a lot isn’t a good thing.

[ArbitraryWater]

If Kawhi wins the title this year he is merely doing what he should be doing.

He is at an age where he should be the BITW, has those all time aspirations and he is touted as such, and he has by far the most loaded team around him.

Of course that doesn't mean he can't rise historically from this year, but level of play will decide where he is at, not the title.

Theoretically he could be great and everyone around him stink the joint up, but unlikely with how loaded they are.

He needs to make sure he gets others involved.

[Roundball_Rock]

It is insane. Top 5 all-time after having four elite seasons? People need to get educated on what type of resume people who are in the top 5 have. People have as many or more MVP's than Kawhi has elite seasons yet he somehow joins their class?

Cowherd used to be my favorite because he was the best analyst of any of the talk show hosts but he has become another "shock jock" who will say anything to go viral.

[HoopsNY]

It is insane. Top 5 all-time after having four elite seasons? People need to get educated on what type of resume people who are in the top 5 have. People have as many or more MVP's than Kawhi has elite seasons yet he somehow joins their class?

Cowherd used to be my favorite because he was the best analyst of any of the talk show hosts but he has become another "shock jock" who will say anything to go viral.

Cowherd was your favorite? Damn. lol

[Carbine]

He will be top 10 in my book, if he has another run similar to last years.

[Clippersfan86]

Too soon, not enough resume. Argument for top 15-20 ish though. If he wins 2-3 rings with Clips while maintaining MVP level play for a few more seasons he could be in the Bird top 5 criteria. Shortish career due to injuries, but so dominant and won so much at his peak that he compensates.

[Shogon]

If Kawhi wins the title this year he is merely doing what he should be doing.

He is at an age where he should be the BITW, has those all time aspirations and he is touted as such, and he has by far the most loaded team around him.

Of course that doesn't mean he can't rise historically from this year, but level of play will decide where he is at, not the title.

Theoretically he could be great and everyone around him stink the joint up, but unlikely with how loaded they are.

He needs to make sure he gets others involved.

Bingo.


What an absurd take by Cowherd, lol. Holy shit.

I mean, name any guy in the top 10... would you not take their career over Kawhi's thus far, even with a title this year?

GTFO.

****s sake.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The Top 5 stuff is daft, but Kawhi would pass a number of other greats.

The asterisk narrative cracks me up though. People bending over backwards to slant Kawhi. Using their logic there were 3 maybe 4 titles in the last decade that are 'asterisked'. Bare minimum

Another title with superstar production, and Kawhi is in rare company. Not top 5, but he makes a big jump.

[Shogon]

Shaquille O'Neal
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Tim Duncan

Who EXACTLY on that list would you take Kawhi over?

Please, eh? **** outta here with this shit.

[iamgine]

Cowherd isn't really a sports guy. He knows about the shallow surface stuff but he just makes an argument to whatever will garner attention while appearing reasonable to casuals. This is how he makes his money. He called Iverson a great defender and Iverson had to correct him while laughing and he still insisted Iverson was a pretty good defender.

[KD7]

The same Colin Cowherd who called Ben Simmons the BITW a couple of years ago?

Yh no one should take that clown seriously :oldlol:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi in 2014 playoffs: Held teams to 102.7 offensive rating while on court, 106.9 offensive rating while off the court.

Spurs are top 3 ranked defense when Kawhi is on court. Spurs drop to 14th ranked defense when Kawhi is off court.

Kawhi in 2019 playoffs: Anchored raptors offense at 114.3 while on court. Raptors offense drops to 95.6 while off court.

Raptors are top 4 offense ranked while Kawhi is on court. Raptors drop to 30th ranked offense while Kawhi is off court.

GOAT level impact, offense or defense. And the only reason his defense off numbers don't stick out more is because Ibaka was off the bench. As long as Kawhi keeps it up and keeps stacking the rings, the sky is the limit.

[KD7]

KaWhit hasn't even hit 10k points yet and we're talking about top 5 GOAT :facepalm

[bullettooth]

Colin sets the bar real low.... that's why he thinks LeBron is the GOAT with 6 finals losses.

Also..

https://s31.postimg.cc/kmc9n3cln/lebrondickrider.gif

[Tobio-Star]

I thought there would be an asterisk to this season ? Like I said, everyone is gonna forget that bs asterisk once LeKing wins his 4th ring :cheers:

[ralph_i_el]

Cowherd's hoops takes are bad

[guy]

Cowherd isn't really a sports guy. He knows about the shallow surface stuff but he just makes an argument to whatever will garner attention while appearing reasonable to casuals. This is how he makes his money. He called Iverson a great defender and Iverson had to correct him while laughing and he still insisted Iverson was a pretty good defender.

:oldlol: I remember that. Terrible. I do wonder how much of NBA history some of these actually know about and if they actually watched.

He also said he doesn’t count big men in his GOAT rankings because they just hit the genetic lottery. I guess guys like Jordan, Lebron, Magic were just regular guys and didn’t have any benefits from genetics :confusedshrug:

[Whoah10115]

Vomit-inducing.

More people who don't know anything, writing rules.

It's genuinely disgusting.

[SATAN]

Can't wait for the next list. These opinions are absolutely worth paying attention to and discussing.

[knicksman]

its about quality over quanitity. Thats why lots of people have dirk over lebron coz him winning 1 ring without superteam trumps everything lebron has done in his career. We really dont care about MVPs, all star selections, etc. What matters the most is how difficult your feat is . And kawhi winning in 3 teams is unprecedented and I have him 2nd GOAT if he does that.

[SATAN]

:facepalm

[Whoah10115]

its about quality over quanitity. Thats why lots of people have dirk over lebron coz him winning 1 ring without superteam trumps everything lebron has done in his career. We really dont care about MVPs, all star selections, etc. What matters the most is how difficult your feat is . And kawhi winning in 3 teams is unprecedented and I have him 2nd GOAT if he does that.

Lots...nice.

[Shooter]

Kobe is top 12 and he has no case over Kobe.

Next

[knicksman]

Lots...nice.

ISH is the most unbias of all and lots of people here dont have lebron top 10 and since dirk is top 11 then theyre debatable.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kobe is top 12 and he has no case over Kobe.

Next

Kawhi is clearly a better player then Kobe ever was. Now its just about passing him for careers.

Kawhi 2013/14 finals runs = Kobe 3 peat with Shaq

Kawhi 2019 title > Kobe 2009 title

Now all Kawhi has to do in this bubble is outperform 2010 Kobe? Piece of cake.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kawhi is clearly a better player then Kobe ever was. Now its just about passing him for careers.

Kawhi 2013/14 finals runs = Kobe 3 peat with Shaq

Kawhi 2019 title > Kobe 2009 title

Now all Kawhi has to do in this bubble is outperform 2010 Kobe? Piece of cake.
Absolutely not :oldlol: '01 Kobe SHITS on '13/'14 Kawhi, '02 & '00 were better too

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Absolutely not :oldlol: '01 Kobe SHITS on '13/'14 Kawhi, '02 & '00 were better too

Kawhi won 1 finals MVP during that 2013/14 stretch. How many finals MVPS did Kobe get during the 2000-2002 stretch? Shaq was the best player in the NBA. Duncan wasn't even close to the best player in the NBA in 2013/14. So take the context in consideration.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kawhi won 1 finals MVP during that 2013/14 stretch. How many finals MVPS did Kobe get during the 2000-2002 stretch? Shaq was the best player in the NBA. Duncan wasn't even close to the best player in the NBA in 2013/14. So take the context in consideration.
Kawhi's first FMVP is one of the weakest of all time, literally one of the 10 weakest ones in history. You don't think '01 or '02 Kobe is winning FMVP on those teams? Or that Kawhi's winning it over Shaq?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi's first FMVP is one of the weakest of all time, literally one of the 10 weakest ones in history. You don't think '01 or '02 Kobe is winning FMVP on those teams? Or that Kawhi's winning it over Shaq?

Kawhi in 2014 still played better in the finals then any Kobe finals run in 00-02. Kawhi is also a tier higher better defender. Dominated 3 straight finals games averaging 24PPG to Duncan's 12PPG. Can you name me a 2000-2002 finals when Shaq averaged 12PPG in 3 wins? Kawhi would go off in the triangle offense and playing with the goat center. I'm going to make a thread about it now.

[Whoah10115]

ISH is the most unbias of all and lots of people here dont have lebron top 10 and since dirk is top 11 then theyre debatable.

Ummmmmmmm......

Someone just said Kawhi is better than Kobe ever was. So, no. Also, didn't know Dirk was top 11.

[Whoah10115]

He will be top 10 in my book, if he has another run similar to last years.

Your book needs an editor.

[knicksman]

Ummmmmmmm......

Someone just said Kawhi is better than Kobe ever was. So, no. Also, didn't know Dirk was top 11.

malone and oscar are in the top 11-13 range and I value dirk over them:confusedshrug:

It is what it is though. Not all players cares about stats. Coz skillset is all that matters. And usually, players with higher skillsets arent insecure so they dont care about stats and only cares about winning. So should I rank lebron over dirk coz of triple doubles when its dirk who cares more about winning? I dont think so coz the objective of the game is to win not pad stats. Im sure lots of players could beat lebron if the objective is stats. Thats why we only care about results coz results usually correlate with skillset. And the better player is the higher skillset not the better stats.

[SATAN]

You're an idiot.

[Shooter]

Kawhi's first FMVP is one of the weakest of all time, literally one of the 10 weakest ones in history. You don't think '01 or '02 Kobe is winning FMVP on those teams? Or that Kawhi's winning it over Shaq?

+1

[CountDracula]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/8rEjHZI6y2OkZ5FpRh/source.gif

[TheGoatest]

Would've been curious which true all-time greats this moron would've shat on and taken out of his top 5 had this actually happened and a guy with 0 regular season MVPs and less than 10.000 career points won his third ring and Finals MVP.

[Doranku]

It is insane. Top 5 all-time after having four elite seasons? People need to get educated on what type of resume people who are in the top 5 have. People have as many or more MVP's than Kawhi has elite seasons yet he somehow joins their class?

Cowherd used to be my favorite because he was the best analyst of any of the talk show hosts but he has become another "shock jock" who will say anything to go viral.

When the hell was that? lmao Cowherd has been just as bad as Skip Bayless for as long as I can remember. Probably even worse because Skip is just a character more or less... I actually think Cowherd believes the absolute nonsense he spews.

[MaxPlayer]

When the hell was that? lmao Cowherd has been just as bad as Skip Bayless for as long as I can remember. Probably even worse because Skip is just a character more or less... I actually think Cowherd believes the absolute nonsense he spews.

:lol

I love how he repeats his ignorant-ass takes over and over as if he's dispensing some great wisdom.

[Phoenix]

Oh shit I just realized, Undisputed today with Shannon and Skip is gonna be must see TV.

[FKAri]

Oh shit I just realized, Undisputed today with Shannon and Skip is gonna be must see TV.

Skip hates Kawhi since he left the Spurs and Shannon is lukewarm on him. Not the best for drama. That's part of the problem with Kawhi. He has no passionate fans.