2019 Toronto Raptors vs 1997 Chicago Bulls

[Lebron23]

Who wins in a best of 7 series? Can Kawhi and the Raptors beat the 69 wins Chicago Bulls?

[NBAGOAT]

no

[Lebron23]

no

Rodman averaged a double single in the nba finals.

[E_Stamkos]

The Bulls best us.

Unfortunately...

[Bronbron23]

Who wins in a best of 7 series? Can Kawhi and the Raptors beat the 69 wins Chicago Bulls?

no. That bulls team give a healthy warriors team a go. Raps struggled to beat warriors without kd and eventually no klay and a trash version of green compared to years past. A healthy warriors team beat them easily

[getting_old]

Who wins in a best of 7 series? Can Kawhi and the Raptors beat the 69 wins Chicago Bulls?


will 4 starters be damaged, each 50-100% injured for the Bulls, giving Toronto a chance, you mean?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi > Jordan
Lowry < Pippen
Siakam < Rodman
Ibaka > Kukoc
Gasol > Longely

I think raptors take it in 7, best player and matchup pretty well. Ibaka/Rodman would be a good feud. Kawhi guards Jordan or Pippen and if he can slow either one of then down the raptors would win the series.

[Whoah10115]

Kawhi > Jordan


:oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

Raptors, right--because MJ had no help? :lol

If the Raptors needed 4-5 lucky bounces to beat the Sixers in the ECSF and then needed a myriad of injuries to beat GS, how are they going to beat the 97' Bulls?


Kawhi > Jordan
Lowry < Pippen
Siakam < Rodman
Ibaka > Kukoc
Gasol > Longely

I think raptors take it in 7, best player and matchup pretty well. Ibaka/Rodman would be a good feud. Kawhi guards Jordan or Pippen and if he can slow either one of then down the raptors would win the series.

You think Kawhi>Jordan?

[Drygon]

Easily 1997 Bulls and it's not close.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Raptors, right--because MJ had no help? :lol

If the Raptors needed 4-5 lucky bounces to beat the Sixers in the ECSF and then needed a myriad of injuries to beat GS, how are they going to beat the 97' Bulls?



You think Kawhi>Jordan?

The 2nd 3peat Jordan wasn't as efficient. Jordan was at just 54% TS the 2nd 3peat. I would imagine this young version of Kawhi is a more efficient scorer and better defender.

[Drygon]

no. That bulls team give a healthy warriors team a go. Raps struggled to beat warriors without kd and eventually no klay and a trash version of green compared to years past. A healthy warriors team beat them easily

Actually, Warriors lost 17 out 19 quarters with Klay healthy during NBA Finals 2016. All in all, they lost 19 out of 24 quarters.

Never mind that GSW were massive favorites to win NBA Finals 2019 even without KD.

Raptors ended up having a 3-1 lead against them without KD.

Only reason why it got taken to Game 6 was because of KD's heroics before tearing his Achilles.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWu4-w0XYAERVRE?format=png&name=900x900

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Actually, Warriors lost 17 out 19 quarters with Klay healthy during NBA Finals 2016. All in all, they lost 19 out of 24 quarters.

Never mind that GSW were massive favorites to win NBA Finals 2019 even without KD.

Raptors ended up having a 3-1 lead against them without KD.

Only reason why it got taken to Game 6 was because of KD's heroics before tearing his Achilles.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWu4-w0XYAERVRE?format=png&name=900x900

Yeah raptors averaged 116 offensive rating that series and a shot away from closing out 3-1. That's not struggling. And I'm sick of people overrating the shit out of Klay because he went on a little hot streak.

Warriors without Klay during 2019 playoffs had 119 offensive rating and held teams to a 107 offensive rating

Warriors without Draymond for 2019 playoffs had a 110 offensive rating and held teams to 119 offensive rating

Draymond is clearly better then Klay and always has been.

[tpols]

if fred van vleet and kyle lowry pop off how they did from 3, Kawhi plays at MVP level, Siakam goes nuts, and ibaka and marc can handle rodman together, they definitely have a shot. That team was better than the jazz. When you think about their talent in hindsight... kawhi, siakam, gasol, ibaka, lowry... they were damn near featuring an all star team.

[Stanley Kobrick]

Actually, Warriors lost 17 out 19 quarters with Klay healthy during NBA Finals 2016. All in all, they lost 19 out of 24 quarters.

Never mind that GSW were massive favorites to win NBA Finals 2019 even without KD.

Raptors ended up having a 3-1 lead against them without KD.

Only reason why it got taken to Game 6 was because of KD's heroics before tearing his Achilles.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWu4-w0XYAERVRE?format=png&name=900x900
oh wow look at all those people who had Stephen Curry fmvp. for the 5th Finals in a row it seems that didn't happen :(

[tpols]

Actually, Warriors lost 17 out 19 quarters with Klay healthy during NBA Finals 2016. All in all, they lost 19 out of 24 quarters.

Never mind that GSW were massive favorites to win NBA Finals 2019 even without KD.

Raptors ended up having a 3-1 lead against them without KD.

Only reason why it got taken to Game 6 was because of KD's heroics before tearing his Achilles.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWu4-w0XYAERVRE?format=png&name=900x900

That's extremely misleading because everybody was expecting KD back mid series... of course they would be favorites. And then Klay snapped his leg in half in the middle of the series as well.

A healthy 2019 Warriors would wipe the 1997 Bulls too. Durant could definitely come close to matching MJ, who didnt shoot that great, and then what? Pippen matching Chef? :roll: And the gap only grows as you go down the list. Jordan would have to be hanging like 50 ppg for them to win.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

if fred van vleet and kyle lowry pop off how they did from 3, Kawhi plays at MVP level, Siakam goes nuts, and ibaka and marc can handle rodman together, they definitely have a shot. That team was better than the jazz. When you think about their talent in hindsight... kawhi, siakam, gasol, ibaka, lowry... they were damn near featuring an all star team.

Rested Kawhi would torch them I think (2nd round vs 76ers Kawhi). So if they met in 2nd round somehow, I favor raptors even more. But kawhi even had 29 on 57% in ECF vs 1st ranked bucks defense

Finals Kawhi was tired but still put up 28PPG 60% TS

[HBK_Kliq_2]

That's extremely misleading because everybody was expecting KD back mid series... of course they would be favorites. And then Klay snapped his leg in half in the middle of the series as well.

A healthy 2019 Warriors would wipe the 1997 Bulls too. Durant could definitely come close to matching MJ, who didnt shoot that great, and then what? Pippen matching Chef? :roll: And the gap only grows as you go down the list. Jordan would have to be hanging like 50 ppg for them to win.

Klay snapped his leg with 1 quarter left in the series, I wouldn't call that middle of the series. Losing Klay for a game isn't as big of a loss as losing Draymond for a game in 2016 either. Warriors flat out suck when Draymond goes to the bench, basically since 2015 its been that way.

[tpols]

Klay was HOT when he went down. He had 30 in less than 3 quarters. 70% from 3. The whole squad was turning up... something about game 6's with that guy. I truly believe GSW would've won the series if he stayed healthy.

[Stanley Kobrick]

Klay snapped his leg with 1 quarter left in the series, I wouldn't call that middle of the series. Losing Klay for a game isn't as big of a loss as losing Draymond for a game in 2016 either. Warriors flat out suck when Draymond goes to the bench, basically since 2015 its been that way.
:cheers:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Klay was HOT when he went down. He had 30 in less than 3 quarters. 70% from 3. The whole squad was turning up... something about game 6's with that guy. I truly believe GSW would've won the series if he stayed healthy.

In a game 7 at home vs raptors? That's definitely a long shot. Warriors played no defense with Klay, they allowed 114 offensive rating with Klay on the court through the playoffs. Klay got torched by Kawhi in game 4 in Oakland. It would of never even went 6 if Durant didn't return.

Draymond is way more valuable to the team then Klay and he played the entire series, they lost fair and square.

In a vacuum Klay is better then Draymond. Similar to how Lou Williams is better then Patrick Beverly in a vacuum. However, on elite teams its Draymond/Beverly that hold those teams together.

So any argument you can make for Klay missing a game in 2016, you can make the same argument for Draymond missing a game in 2016.

[tpols]

You cant win with Dray as your 2nd option scorer. He shot like shit in that game 6... terrible overall efficiency and even Iggy doubled him up in points. No... :roll: they didn't lose "fair and square"... they lost because of injury. I'm no Cleveland fan but I'm not gonna say the Cavs in 2015 lost "fair and square" and act like 2/3 of their top guns didn't get hurt. It is what it is. When Durant came back for that one quarter he had 11 points in 11 minutes... they would've tidal waved Toronto with him playing the whole series.

[97 bulls]

The 97 Bulls would MOLLYWHOMP the Raptors.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

You cant win with Dray as your 2nd option scorer. He shot like shit in that game 6... terrible overall efficiency and even Iggy doubled him up in points. No... :roll: they didn't lose "fair and square"... they lost because of injury. I'm no Cleveland fan but I'm not gonna say the Cavs in 2015 lost "fair and square" and act like 2/3 of their top guns didn't get hurt. It is what it is. When Durant came back for that one quarter he had 11 points in 11 minutes... they would've tidal waved Toronto with him playing the whole series.

The warriors were terrible with Draymond off the court in 2016. The warriors were better without Klay on the court in 2019. On/off stats tell us that. Klay is only valuable next to Draymond because Klay doesn't play any defense.

2015 Irving/Love missed the entire series with the exception of 1 game. 2019 Curry/Klay/Dray played the entire series with the exception of a game and a half. Those situations aren't even comparable.

[Jay-B]

I’m willing to bet anything Bulls win in 5. 4-1

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

if fred van vleet and kyle lowry pop off how they did from 3, Kawhi plays at MVP level, Siakam goes nuts, and ibaka and marc can handle rodman together, they definitely have a shot. That team was better than the jazz. When you think about their talent in hindsight... kawhi, siakam, gasol, ibaka, lowry... they were damn near featuring an all star team.

Lot of IFs vs one of the best defenses of that era.

Im taking Chicago. Simply for having more bodies to throw at Kawhi. Having the GOAT doesn't hurt tho.

[Whoah10115]

Kawhi > Jordan

:roll:

[tpols]

You guys realize that MJ only shot 45% and 42% against the Jazz who were not a good defensive team right? Average of 13th rank in their Finals years. And Scottie shot like total shit against them. Meanwhile the raptors were a top 5 defense... loaded with defensive talent. Marc Gasol, Ibaka, Kawhi, Lowry, AND Siakam are all elite defenders. There's no holes. What % are Jordan and Pippen shooting at against them if they shot mediocre against an average at best defense?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Lot of IFs vs one of the best defenses of that era.

Im taking Chicago. Simply for having more bodies to throw at Kawhi. Having the GOAT doesn't hurt tho.

Yeah and 2016 finals game 5 warriors at home without Draymond and LeBron/Irving go off for 40+ each

Game 7 warriors are at home and Draymond puts up 32/15/9 and holds Cavs to a 102 offensive rating. Curry/Klay just played so terrible, warriors still lost by 4 points.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

You guys realize that MJ only shot 45% and 42% against the Jazz who were not a good defensive team right? Average of 13th rank in their Finals years. And Scottie shot like total shit against them. Meanwhile the raptors were a top 5 defense... loaded with defensive talent. Marc Gasol, Ibaka, Kawhi, Lowry, AND Siakam are all elite defenders. There's no holes. What % are Jordan and Pippen shooting at against them if they shot mediocre against an average at best defense?

Good points. On the flip side of things, Embiid's defense made every raptors player his bitch besides Kawhi. Only problem was Embiid couldn't stay on the court. Could Rodman or Pippen have that same defensive impact on Kawhi's supporting cast? That would be the issue. Kawhi's cast all folded in the 76ers series and Kawhi had to save them.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi > Jordan

:roll:

Lets put it this way, if Patrick Ewing was playing against Kawhi? Only ring Ewing would have is his wedding ring! just like now.

[Roundball_Rock]

Scottie shot like total shit against them.

54% TS in 97', 57% TS in 98' before he got hurt. The lies MJ stans tell themselves in their echo chamber. :lol


against the Jazz who were not a good defensive team right? Average of 13th rank in their Finals years

Which deceptively erases that they were 9th in 97'. In 98' the Jazz defense was weaker but the Bulls' shot worse. Match ups matter.


Meanwhile the raptors were a top 5 defense

1998 Jazz (17th) dRTG: 105.4
2019 Raptors (5th) dRTG: 107.1

It is asinine to compare scoring and shooting stats from 2019 with 1997 or 1998. The 98' Jazz's dRTG would be #2 in 2019. The Raptors shot 58%; the Bulls shot 51-52% TS because defense was allowed back then.

[kawhileonard2]

Kawhi would lock up Scottie soo hard.

[Gougou]

We will win baby~~~

Anyways, it might depend on which rules, old rules maybe Bulls, new rules Raptors, their offense is better and faster.

[Axe]

Kawhi would lock up Scottie soo hard.
27 y.o. > 31 y.o? :facepalm

[Phoenix]

You guys realize that MJ only shot 45% and 42% against the Jazz who were not a good defensive team right? Average of 13th rank in their Finals years. And Scottie shot like total shit against them. Meanwhile the raptors were a top 5 defense... loaded with defensive talent. Marc Gasol, Ibaka, Kawhi, Lowry, AND Siakam are all elite defenders. There's no holes. What % are Jordan and Pippen shooting at against them if they shot mediocre against an average at best defense?

Aren't Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Harper all elite defenders on the other side of the floor? The 97 Bulls were the 5th ranked defense in 97. Who's rules are we playing under when comparing defense here? 1997 is a very far cry from 2019.

[Roundball_Rock]

Aren't Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Harper all elite defenders on the other side of the floor? The 97 Bulls were the 5th ranked defense in 97. Who's rules are we playing under when comparing defense here? 1997 is a very far cry from 2019.

Yes--he uses the Bulls' defense as an excuse for defending Stockton's poor finals play as well as Reggie playing poorly in the 98' ECF (in the long Miller thread the justification for 17/2/2 was the defense was "too tough"), where his agenda calls for hyping the Bulls' defense. Now they aren't as good as the 19' Raptors defense? :lol This guy has zero consistency from thread to thread.