Top 25 Raptors players of all-time

[msbutthurt]

https://www.tsn.ca/the-25-greatest-raptors-in-franchise-history

TSN has Lowry 1. Kawhi 2. Derozan 3. Vince 4.



And this is why I don't take the Raptors fan base seriously.


To me, VC is easily #1 since Kawhi was only there for 1 season and McGrady was still young.


Derozan above VC... that's even worse than Lowry above VC.





If there is a pool of Lowry, Derozan and Carter to choose to have on your team... anybody that would pick Lowry or Derozan over Carter should find another hobby, because their opinion on basketball is terrible.

[imdaman99]

Recency bias :confusedshrug: I know they eventually got over Vince forcing his way out but they won't put him up there. KD might be the goat Thunder but you won't find many Thunder fans admit that for a few years.

[msbutthurt]

Recency bias :confusedshrug: I know they eventually got over Vince forcing his way out but they won't put him up there. KD might be the goat Thunder but you won't find many Thunder fans admit that for a few years.


Must be.


I would also take Raptors Bosh over Lowry and Derozan. Another case of not liking the way the player left I guess.

[Phoenix]

The reason that Kawhi is first is obvious but that reason should also have him over Lowry. Kyle and Derozan have tenure and I imagine that's why they're over Vince. Clearly neither are better than Vince when he was healthy or a bigger star at the peak of Vinsanity, but the way he forced himself stains his Raptors career.

[msbutthurt]

The reason that Kawhi is first is obvious but that reason should also have him over Lowry. Kyle and Derozan have tenure and I imagine that's why they're over Vince. Clearly neither are better than Vince when he was healthy or a bigger star at the peak of Vinsanity, but the way he forced himself stains his Raptors career.


The way Kawhi left wasn't great either. He won them a championship, and half the fans don't really like him because he left. The other half are just happy they got the championship. I guess I've always been a fan players that stayed with the team for a long time, and Vince Carter is a little different. He was from Florida and then North Carolina, only to be sent to another country up north. He mostly embraced being there but in the end, it's hard to fault him for wanting his daily life to be back in the U.S. It just seems like Vince Carter established the Raptors as a legit organization and he was awesome to watch. The Vancouver Grizzlies might still be there if they got any player close to Vince Carter. I don't blame people for disliking him leaving, but he really made that team relevant on a nation stage. I loved watching Pacers, Raptors and Kings during that era. Vince Carter is what I think of when I think of the Raptors. Followed by Bosh. At least in terms of the past history.

[Phoenix]

The way Kawhi left wasn't great either. He won them a championship, and half the fans don't really like him because he left. The other half are just happy they got the championship. I guess I've always been a fan players that stayed with the team for a long time, and Vince Carter is a little different. He was from Florida and then North Carolina, only to be sent to another country up north. He mostly embraced being there but in the end, it's hard to fault him for wanting his daily life to be back in the U.S. It just seems like Vince Carter established the Raptors as a legit organization and he was awesome to watch. The Vancouver Grizzlies might still be there if they got any player close to Vince Carter. I don't blame people for disliking him leaving, but he really made that team relevant on a nation stage. I loved watching Pacers, Raptors and Kings during that era. Vince Carter is what I think of when I think of the Raptors. Followed by Bosh. At least in terms of the past history.

Even the ones who don't like him because he was no longer on the team, which is a natural reaction, should be able to separate that from him playing a pivotal role in the team's only championship ( and the first major Canadian team sports win in several years as far as I'm aware). Kawhi fulfilled the extent of his contract and there was always the chance he would 'go home', so I don't think Raptor fans would be too shocked that he left. Even though there was hope that winning a title would create a bond with the city that led to him staying. I personally was hoping he would have.

You are right in saying Vince is to date the teams most iconic star and put basketball on the map in Canada. I was an international student in Canada when Vince came into the league. I saw ALOT of Raptors games those first few years and know firsthand the energy he brought to Canada( and to the league in general).

[Drygon]

The reason that Kawhi is first is obvious but that reason should also have him over Lowry. Kyle and Derozan have tenure and I imagine that's why they're over Vince. Clearly neither are better than Vince when he was healthy or a bigger star at the peak of Vinsanity, but the way he forced himself stains his Raptors career.

Both Sam Mitchell + Rob Babcock admitted that Vince didn't wanted to be traded.

During November 2012, they both participated in a podcast named "Tim and Sid".

In the first one at around 5:30, Sam Mitchell states that Vince called him the night before the trade to let him know he wants to be a Raptor. Vince wanted to put the beef with management behind him, and he wanted to commit to the team’s vision.

Mitchell then called Rob Babcock (Raptors' then GM) and delivered the message. Babcock basically blew it off and said it’s too late he has a deal ready with the Nets. But it wasn’t official or anything. Just a verbal agreement. Babcock confirms this in 2nd audio.

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_demand-2/Sam-Mitchell-with-tim-and-Sid-ts-20121107-Interview.mp3

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_demand-2/Rob-Babcock-with-Tim-and-Sid-ts-20121107-Interview.mp3

[Phoenix]

Both Sam Mitchell + Rob Babcock admitted that Vince didn't wanted to be traded.

During November 2012, they both participated in a podcast named "Tim and Sid".

In the first one at around 5:30, Sam Mitchell states that Vince called him the night before the trade to let him know he wants to be a Raptor. Vince wanted to put the beef with management behind him, and he wanted to commit to the team’s vision.

Mitchell then called Rob Babcock (Raptors' then GM) and delivered the message. Babcock basically blew it off and said it’s too late he has a deal ready with the Nets. But it wasn’t official or anything. Just a verbal agreement. Babcock confirms this in 2nd audio.

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_demand-2/Sam-Mitchell-with-tim-and-Sid-ts-20121107-Interview.mp3

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_demand-2/Rob-Babcock-with-Tim-and-Sid-ts-20121107-Interview.mp3

Interesting info. This can't be that common knowledge because the general sentiment seems to be Vince wanted and played his way out?

[Drygon]

Also, I don't agree none of what that article said about Vince....


Others still see the guy who said he didn’t want to dunk anymore, embellished injuries, was accused of tipping off plays, quit on his team, demanded a trade, and set the franchise back years in the process.

- Vince actually made 3 dunks against Wizards few days after that statement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsU4eEsZRe4&t) & never stopped dunking until his very last day as a Raptor.

- Vince was diagnosed with jumper's knee, which is a chronic condition & exacerbated his other injuries. There's no proof of him "faking" injuries...

- The narrative about Vince "tipping off plays" is from a Raptors-Sonics game is nothing but a rumor that was published 2 days after he got traded to Nets. And that game was played 1 month before the trade happened. What doesn't get talked about enough is how Raptors scored on the play Vince allegedly tipped off so it didn’t helped SuperSonics. Ray Allen (who guarded Vince that game) said he didn't hear anything. (https://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/did-carter-tip-off-sonics-on-play-selection-1.506817)

- Vince did quit by asking a trade (which he later regret). But I'd argue Raptors' awful management quit on Vince long before he did. They never cared about putting a good & competitive roster around him. None of Vince's former teammates would make into the current Raptors' starting line-up or during 2019. Vince was only used to filling out the seats as a cash cow.

- Raptors' management set themselves back for years after screwing up draft selections & bad trades. Never mind they wasted 7 years of Chris Bosh's career, one of the absolute best big mans in late 2000s.


Interesting info. This can't be that common knowledge because the general sentiment seems to be Vince wanted and played his way out?

I also genuinely didn't knew this revelation from Sam Mitchell & Rob Babcack until many years later.

The "general sentiment" about something doesn't always mean it's true.

Many people still believes the false narratives about Vince's career as a Raptor, the actual details gets lost over years.

[Phoenix]

The "general sentiment" about something doesn't always mean it's true.

Many people still believes the false narratives about Vince's career as a Raptor, the actual details gets lost over years.

Of course not.