Whats lebrons argument for mvp over davis?

[Bronbron23]

Off the get before bron stans melt down like frosty i just want to say i personally think bron is the better player and is still the best player in the league. This question is more for the die hard bron stans who like to mainly use brons stats for their argument on why hes the best. I've seen people on here use his 2016 finals where he was first in everything as an argument to why hes the goat. They also bring up how he leads mj in more statistical categories to why hes better.

This year AD leads lebron in almost every statistical category. He has more points,rebs,blocks and steals. He's also leading in fg% and ft%. Lebron is only better in 2 categories which is assists and 3pt% and even that is way closer than you'd think. So based on lebron stans own logic he cant be better than Ad so how do they explain why hes mvp?

[LAmbruh]

"Lebron is the MVP this year" - Frank Vogel


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VT92xrXlkM


1. Lebron
2. Giannis
3. Kawhi
4. Harden
5. Davis
6. Embiid
7. Doncic
8. George
9. Jokic
10. Butler
11. Dame
12be. Westbrook
13. Tatum
14. Siakam
15. CP3
16. Simmons
17. Middleton
18. Gobert
19. Lowry
20. Kemba

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29461674/nba-bubble-rankings-predicting-50-best-players-orlando


It is what it is

[msbutthurt]

Giannis is the mvp hands down.



NBA will lose even more fans if Lebron wins. Tim Donaghy would laugh.

[bullettooth]

LeBron couldn't even make the playoffs until Anthony Davis showed up. Tells you who the real MVP of that team is.

[dbugz]

No Brow No West Playoffs

[Walk on Water]

Davis is way better than James at this point.

[tpols]

Yup... their logic is hypocritical. They do the same thing with pippen and mj saying pippen had more assists, rebounds, blocks, and steals. Now that Davis has done that to Lebron, they've flip flopped on their original premise. Shouldn't be a surprise.

[ArbitraryWater]

Yup... their logic is hypocritical. They do the same thing with pippen and mj saying pippen had more assists, rebounds, blocks, and steals. Now that Davis has done that to Lebron, they've flip flopped on their original premise. Shouldn't be a surprise.

but no one says pip is better than mj

its just interesting to note how close they were besides scoring

lebron and ad are close too

lebron is just better

[HoopsNY]

but no one says pip is better than mj

its just interesting to note how close they were besides scoring

lebron and ad are close too

lebron is just better

Better how? Considering Davis is the better combination offensively and defensively, he should have more MVP consideration.

[insidious301]

That Lebron has a better rpm/rapm(impact stats) while also leading the league in assists. Doing all of that out West who people for years said was the "tougher conference". The narrative when Lebron played in Cleveland was the East was trash and "who wouldn't be successful?" Guess that no longer applies so we'll be hearing the West=garbage soon enough.

[HoopsNY]

That Lebron has a better rpm/rapm(impact stats) while also leading the league in assists. Doing all of that out West who people for years said was the "tougher conference". The narrative when Lebron played in Cleveland was the East was trash and "who wouldn't be successful?" Guess that longer works so we will be hearing the West=garbage soon here.

Where can I view RPM/RAPM statistics? And how does RPM/RAPM work? I'm not too familiar with them.

[tpols]

That Lebron has a better rpm/rapm(impact stats) while also leading the league in assists. Doing all of that out West who people for years said was the "tougher conference". The narrative when Lebron played in Cleveland was the East was trash and "who wouldn't be successful?" Guess that no longer applies so we'll be hearing the West=garbage soon enough.

Lebron didn't even make the playoffs when he went West. From missing the playoffs to 1 seed is the difference AD made.

[GrayGoat]

Where can I view RPM/RAPM statistics? And how does RPM/RAPM work? I'm not too familiar with them.

Google it. Are you helpless? You were able to click this thread

[ArbitraryWater]

Better how? Considering Davis is the better combination offensively and defensively, he should have more MVP consideration.

he isnt.

lebron is by far the better offensive player, and also the league assist leader.

he is the engine of the offense

u r retarded

[GrayGoat]

Lebron didn't even make the playoffs when he went West. From missing the playoffs to 1 seed is the difference AD made.

LeBron was on pace for the 6th seed until he got injured. The young core must be thriving in New Orleans?

[insidious301]

Where can I view RPM/RAPM statistics? And how does RPM/RAPM work? I'm not too familiar with them.


Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents and additional factors
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

From what everyone tells me, it is a superior version to "BPM". This one strives to confine a players impact, away from teammates. It is apparently ESPNs "best" NBA metric and one used across the NBA. RAPM doesn't use box-score at all however.


Lebron didn't even make the playoffs when he went West. From missing the playoffs to 1 seed is the difference AD made.

So you continue to ignore his and the teams injuries. Why? I don't know.

[tpols]

Lebron has never had a major injury or surgery in his entire career... if he has, name it.

All of the young guys were being shopped in february last year... he wasn't injured, he was sitting out because the season was done and he couldn't mesh with them.

[ArbitraryWater]

Lebron has never had a major injury or surgery in his entire career... if he has, name it.

All of the young guys were being shopped in february last year... he wasn't injured, he was sitting out because the season was done and he couldn't mesh with them.

wut? he considered the season done as they layed waste to golden state holding the 4th seed?

[Roundball_Rock]

Yup... their logic is hypocritical. They do the same thing with pippen and mj saying pippen had more assists, rebounds, blocks, and steals. Now that Davis has done that to Lebron, they've flip flopped on their original premise

The difference is with only Pippen and Jordan removed from the team the team's performances were identical (mid-to-high 50 wins level). When LeBron and Davis are removed, the Lakers fall off a cliff without LeBron while chugging along without Davis. Davis may be the better player but it is a MVP award, not a best player award. The Lakers' success without Davis is fatal to his MVP case.


Lebron didn't even make the playoffs when he went West. From missing the playoffs to 1 seed is the difference AD made.

That cuts another way: the Pelicans lost Davis and didn't decline at all. If you lose the MVP, shouldn't there be a hit?


From what everyone tells me, it is a superior version to "BPM". This one strives to confine a players impact, away from teammates. It is apparently ESPNs "best" NBA metric and one used across the NBA. RAPM doesn't use box-score at all however.

Wow, LeBron 2nd (behind Giannis) and Davis all the way in 26th. Harden is 3rd so the top 3 in RAPM will likely be the exact order of the top 3 in MVP.

I do think 25 years from now people will Google the stats and say Davis should have been second in MVP behind Giannis. Same thing with Shaq getting all this love 26 years later when he wasn't in the conversation at the time.

[insidious301]

Wow, LeBron 2nd (behind Giannis) and Davis all the way in 26th. Harden is 3rd so the top 3 in RAPM will likely be the exact order of the top 3 in MVP.

I do think 25 years from now people will Google the stats and say Davis should have been second in MVP behind Giannis. Same thing with Shaq getting all this love 26 years later when he wasn't in the conversation at the time.

Good point, but I would advise clicking the "WINS" tab. This is a sub-category like the orpm and drpm splits. What it does however is account for DNP and injury or essentially your total possessions. When adjusted, LeBron is #1, Giannis #2 and Harden #3. Not a big difference, but its why I said LeBron came out on top.

[Roundball_Rock]

Good point, but I would advise clicking the "WINS" tab. This is a sub-category like the orpm and drpm splits. What it does however is account for DNP and injury or essentially your total possessions. When adjusted, LeBron is #1, Giannis #2 and Harden #3. Not a big difference, but its why I said LeBron came out on top.

Thanks, good info. The Lakers also went 6-3 without Davis. That isn't a massive sample size but it is still 15% of the season.

Another problem Davis has is his team actually performs better with him off the court. They are -2.7 net with him off the court, +10.8 with LeBron. That may go to rotations but I suspect the biggest driver is the offense doesn't function without LeBron. It is evident when you watch their games and see how much they struggle when LeBron sits.

[LAmbruh]

The difference is with only Pippen and Jordan removed from the team the team's performances were identical (mid-to-high 50 wins level). When LeBron and Davis are removed, the Lakers fall off a cliff without LeBron while chugging along without Davis. Davis may be the better player but it is a MVP award, not a best player award. The Lakers' success without Davis is fatal to his MVP case.



That cuts another way: the Pelicans lost Davis and didn't decline at all. If you lose the MVP, shouldn't there be a hit?



Wow, LeBron 2nd (behind Giannis) and Davis all the way in 26th. Harden is 3rd so the top 3 in RAPM will likely be the exact order of the top 3 in MVP.

I do think 25 years from now people will Google the stats and say Davis should have been second in MVP behind Giannis. Same thing with Shaq getting all this love 26 years later when he wasn't in the conversation at the time.


Thanks, good info. The Lakers also went 6-3 without Davis. That isn't a massive sample size but it is still 15% of the season.

Another problem Davis has is his team actually performs better with him off the court. They are -2.7 net with him off the court, +10.8 with LeBron. That may go to rotations but I suspect the biggest driver is the offense doesn't function without LeBron. It is evident when you watch their games and see how much they struggle when LeBron sits.

:applause:

[KD7]

I dunno, let's ask AD himself

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2879093-lakers-anthony-davis-lebron-james-deserves-2019-20-nba-mvp-award-over-giannis

[HoopsNY]

Google it. Are you helpless? You were able to click this thread

Are you having a bad day? Tell me how you really feel.

[HoopsNY]

he isnt.

lebron is by far the better offensive player, and also the league assist leader.

he is the engine of the offense

u r retarded

Are you a child? "u r retarded." Can't even type like a normal adult and then claim others are "retarded"? That's rich.

[HoopsNY]

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

From what everyone tells me, it is a superior version to "BPM". This one strives to confine a players impact, away from teammates. It is apparently ESPNs "best" NBA metric and one used across the NBA. RAPM doesn't use box-score at all however.

Thank you. Just looking at this year alone, guys like Lowry and Middleton are ahead of guys like Luka and AD. Zubac is ahead of AD and Butler. Duncan Robinson is ahead of AD, Lillard, Butler, and Embiid.

Look at last year, Danny Green is rated above Butler, Gobert, Holiday, Towns, and even Kawhi.

This metric sucks bro.


So you continue to ignore his and the teams injuries. Why? I don't know.

The problem isn't so much his injuries, it's the way the team performed upon his return when he still had Kuzma/Ingram. And Ingram was playing lights out. LA was what, 4-14 after his return?

[Whoah10115]

These extra stats are stupid but LeBron has been the Lakers' best player.

[Lebron23]

These extra stats are stupid but LeBron has been the Lakers' best player.

This

[dbugz]

libron fans on this thread

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/276/514/6a5.gif

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[insidious301]

Thank you. Just looking at this year alone, guys like Lowry and Middleton are ahead of guys like Luka and AD. Zubac is ahead of AD and Butler. Duncan Robinson is ahead of AD, Lillard, Butler, and Embiid.

Look at last year, Danny Green is rated above Butler, Gobert, Holiday, Towns, and even Kawhi.

This metric sucks bro.

Yup, but I disagree that the stat "sucks" dude. I've seen you and others cite things like BPM, PER, WS/48 with no care in the world. If you read up on "RPM" it is more nuanced and better than all of that other stuff. Probably why the league uses it.

[SATAN]

OP without another low IQ thread. :facepalm

[Axe]

Are you a child? "u r retarded." Can't even type like a normal adult and then claim others are "retarded"? That's rich.
Lmao

[HoopsNY]

Yup, but I disagree that the stat "sucks" dude. I've seen you and others cite things like BPM, PER, WS/48 with no care in the world. If you read up on "RPM" it is more nuanced and better than all of that other stuff. Probably why the league uses it.

You'll never see me argue for any individual advanced metric in isolation, or say that it champions all others. These metrics are contextual and should be grouped with others, which is what I typically do. Having said that, you did tell me that ESPN uses it as it encompasses impact stats for a player away from teammates. It's just hard to rely on that given its outcomes.

[Bronbron23]

OP without another low IQ thread. :facepalm

Thanks buddy appreciate the compliment. Now who's the low iq one?:facepalm