Anthony Davis is the Lakers MVP. This isn't Lebron's team. Only by default.

[Walk on Water]

You saw the game against the Clippers. Davis was draining 3s. He had over 30 points. Lebron made one lucky play at the end. And he also fouled George, you saw George complaining to the ref on an obvious foul.

Davis is the better shooter, free throw shooter, defender, shot blocker, rebounder and even scorer. Lebron leads the Lakers in assists, but he is the point guard. That's his job. Anthony Davis isn't expected to get 10 assists a game. He leads the Lakers in everything else.

Without Davis, the Lakers are not even a playoff team as demonstrated last year. Lebron is older and it's apparent now that Davis runs the show. There's times where Lebron just gives Davis the ball and lets Davis do his thing. Lebron knows he can't just try to dominate the ball anymore. He has to feed it to Anthony Davis.

So if the Lakers win the championship, I don't think this counts for Lebron. This is sort of like when Jason Kidd played with Dirk Nowitzki. Kidd got a ring, but it was Dirk's team. This isn't even close because Davis leads in all statistical categories. And he's the defensive player of the year.

The truth is that Giannis and Anthony Davis should be the 2 MVP candidates. The team belongs to Anthony Davis.

[bullettooth]

Truth.

[Gray GOAT]

Hmm, interesting thread, interesting points. Let's see what Davis himself thinks of this.


Milwaukee Bucks forward Giannis Antetokounmpo is a near lock to win his second straight NBA MVP award, but not to Anthony Davis. James' Lakers teammate, seven-time All-Star Anthony Davis, was asked Thursday why he felt the 17-year veteran should win the MVP over Antetokounmpo and others. "Basically he can do everything on the floor. He can shoot the ball, he can pass, he gets everyone involved. He can take over games," Davis said. "You guys see when LeBron's off the floor how our team operates. We kind of struggle a little bit with him off the floor. I think that this is about who is most valuable to their team. And for me, being around him this whole season, my vote goes to LeBron," he added.

Wow, very insightful. Of course, Davis could just be prepping up his teammate. That's what any Laker player would say. Therefore, let's see if Davis' comments are actually backed up by the stats and, with that, the truth:


The Lakers offense is 5.7 points better with LeBron.
The Lakers offense is 1.0 points worse with Davis.

The Lakers defense is 5.0 points better with LeBron.
The Lakers defense is 1.7 points worse with Davis.

Oh, okay. I guess Davis was on the money there.

[Walk on Water]

Hmm, interesting thread, interesting points. Let's see what Davis himself thinks of this.



Wow, very insightful. Of course, Davis could just be prepping up his teammate. That's what any Laker player would say. Therefore, let's see if Davis' comments are actually backed up by the stats and, with that, the truth:



Oh, okay. I guess Davis was on the money there.


Those stats are skewed.

[AussieSteve]

Those stats are skewed.

What are they skewed by?

[ImKobe]

Hmm, interesting thread, interesting points. Let's see what Davis himself thinks of this.



Wow, very insightful. Of course, Davis could just be prepping up his teammate. That's what any Laker player would say. Therefore, let's see if Davis' comments are actually backed up by the stats and, with that, the truth:



Oh, okay. I guess Davis was on the money there.

Ok, so you cherry-pick on/off numbers and disregard Davis carrying the offense and defense all season long. You really think the on/off numbers while they're staggering minutes actually means anything? Lebron sits early in the first and plays the beginning of the 2nd, that leads to better on/off numbers. Lebron's done a good job in 4th quarters this season, but Davis produces the most on this team, which is why he leads the team in almost every category.

[Axe]

Yup, davis is really a good asset to this team. Will finally break through the csf for the very first time in his career. I do hope he'll play for chicago sometime in the future.

[ArbitraryWater]

So Davis who had previously made 2 postseasons joins LeBron who was on 8 straight finals, and is now on pace for another, and Davis is the MVP?

Interesting.

All this while LeBron is the premier clutch lockdown defender and league leading assister and culture changer.. to AD the one trick scoring pony

Hmm. Tricky.

[FireDavidKahn]

Sorry. AD forced his way to LA to play with LeBron.

[Axe]

Sorry. AD forced his way to LA to play with LeBron.
I wonder where you got that idea from as the lakers were already trying to recruit him since 2018.

[ArbitraryWater]

I wonder where you got that idea from as the lakers were already trying to recruit him since 2018.

how does that contradict his point? AD came to play with bron

[Roundball_Rock]

MVP=Most Valuable Player, not best player. It is obvious which player is more valuable. The Lakers offense can't function without LeBron's playmaking/facilitating. When LeBron is on the court they are 2nd in oRTG, when he is off they are 19th. Davis backs this up:


You guys see when LeBron's off the floor how our team operates. We kind of struggle a little bit with him off the floor. I think that this is about who is most valuable to their team. And for me, being around him this whole season, my vote goes to LeBron,"

LeBron was 2nd in MVP at 21 in 2006 and will be 2nd again in 2020 at age 35. There is Kareem, there is LeBron and that's it in that type of conversation. Admit your real beef is this insane length of uninterrupted dominance.

[Axe]

how does that contradict his point? AD came to play with bron
During summer last year, the lakers traded a bunch of players including ingram and some draft picks to the pels in exchange only for him alone. In other words, he didn't sign there as a free agent whatsoever or something like that, which he should have become one this summer if he still remained there.

[ArbitraryWater]

MVP=Most Valuable Player, not best player. It is obvious which player is more valuable. The Lakers offense can't function without LeBron's playmaking/facilitating. When LeBron is on the court they are 2nd in oRTG, when he is off they are 19th. Davis backs this up:



LeBron was 2nd in MVP at 21 in 2006 and will be 2nd again in 2020 at age 35. There is Kareem, there is LeBron and that's it in that type of conversation. Admit your real beef is this insane length of uninterrupted dominance.

the most valuable player on a team IS the best player though.

especially if we are talking the same team.

[Roundball_Rock]

the most valuable player on a team IS the best player though.

especially if we are talking the same team.

Usually--but the distinction here is the Lakers need LeBron's skills more than Davis', hence the large drop-off without LeBron. When Davis is off the court they still have bigs like Howard who can defend/rebound--when LeBron is off they have a washed up Rondo or Caruso running the offense.

Davis misses time each year so there is always a sample of the team with him out for entire games, not just parts of games. They went 5-2 with LeBron, without Davis.

One of those games was a blowout against the Warriors so we can throw that out but they also beat Dallas by 15, OKC by 15, Houston by 9 without him. These are quality playoff teams they are winning easily against without Davis.

LeBron hasn't missed much time but I suspect if LeBron missed time the Lakers would not be beating teams like Dallas/OKC by 15 or Houston by 9.

[ArbitraryWater]

Usually--but the distinction here is the Lakers need LeBron's skills more than Davis', hence the large drop-off without LeBron. When Davis is off the court they still have bigs like Howard who can defend/rebound--when LeBron is off they have a washed up Rondo or Caruso running the offense.

Davis misses time each year so there is always a sample of the team with him out for entire games, not just parts of games. They went 5-2 with LeBron, without Davis.

One of those games was a blowout against the Warriors so we can throw that out but they also beat Dallas by 15, OKC by 15, Houston by 9 without him. These are quality playoff teams they are winning easily against without Davis.

LeBron hasn't missed much time but I suspect if LeBron missed time the Lakers would not be beating teams like Dallas/OKC by 15 or Houston by 9.

LeBron missed 3 games.

In one they got blown out by Denver at home by 24 points.

The same team they beat in Denver with LeBron before and after that game.

[Walk on Water]

Usually--but the distinction here is the Lakers need LeBron's skills more than Davis', hence the large drop-off without LeBron. When Davis is off the court they still have bigs like Howard who can defend/rebound--when LeBron is off they have a washed up Rondo or Caruso running the offense.

Davis misses time each year so there is always a sample of the team with him out for entire games, not just parts of games. They went 5-2 with LeBron, without Davis.

One of those games was a blowout against the Warriors so we can throw that out but they also beat Dallas by 15, OKC by 15, Houston by 9 without him. These are quality playoff teams they are winning easily against without Davis.

LeBron hasn't missed much time but I suspect if LeBron missed time the Lakers would not be beating teams like Dallas/OKC by 15 or Houston by 9.


Wow no matter how great Davis is, it's never enough.

[ImKobe]

Usually--but the distinction here is the Lakers need LeBron's skills more than Davis', hence the large drop-off without LeBron. When Davis is off the court they still have bigs like Howard who can defend/rebound--when LeBron is off they have a washed up Rondo or Caruso running the offense.

Davis misses time each year so there is always a sample of the team with him out for entire games, not just parts of games. They went 5-2 with LeBron, without Davis.

One of those games was a blowout against the Warriors so we can throw that out but they also beat Dallas by 15, OKC by 15, Houston by 9 without him. These are quality playoff teams they are winning easily against without Davis.

LeBron hasn't missed much time but I suspect if LeBron missed time the Lakers would not be beating teams like Dallas/OKC by 15 or Houston by 9.

We beat OKC on the road by 15 without Bron & AD... Please stop acting like Lebron has 0 help, when this team goes 10 deep with everyone healthy..


Wow no matter how great Davis is, it's never enough.


Seriously, people here act like Davis has never led a team to the Playoffs or beat any good teams in his career. He's one of the most efficient players in league history.

[Whoah10115]

You appear obsessed.

[LAL]

Usually--but the distinction here is the Lakers need LeBron's skills more than Davis', hence the large drop-off without LeBron. When Davis is off the court they still have bigs like Howard who can defend/rebound--when LeBron is off they have a washed up Rondo or Caruso running the offense.

Davis misses time each year so there is always a sample of the team with him out for entire games, not just parts of games. They went 5-2 with LeBron, without Davis.

One of those games was a blowout against the Warriors so we can throw that out but they also beat Dallas by 15, OKC by 15, Houston by 9 without him. These are quality playoff teams they are winning easily against without Davis.

LeBron hasn't missed much time but I suspect if LeBron missed time the Lakers would not be beating teams like Dallas/OKC by 15 or Houston by 9.

Just look at this dude. Still at it. Bronsexual of the year.

[3ball]

So Davis who had previously made 2 postseasons joins LeBron who was on 8 straight finals, and is now on pace for another, and Davis is the MVP?

Interesting.

All this while LeBron is the premier clutch lockdown defender and league leading assister and culture changer.. to AD the one trick scoring pony

Hmm. Tricky.

Offenses aren't geared around bigs anymore and haven't been for over a decade.. ball-handlers control the ball most possessions and therefore have high on-off numbers.. So Lebron is no different than Nash, CP3, or any point guard..

But the ball-dominator brand isn't good enough to win without a 1st option that plays 2nd option, aka Kareem/Worthy were "2nd options" to Magic, even though they were bonafide 1st options themselves and comparable scorers to Magic.. Ditto for Dumars with Isiah, or Wade/Kyrie/AD with Lebron

So the ball-dominator brand needs a 1st option in the 2nd option role, that is infact an equal-scoring and usage partner to the #1 option - Lebron never won a Finals without his sidekick nearly matching him in possession usage and ppg.. That's why he won with this style and Nash/CP3 didn't - Lebron team-hopped for the extra talent that this suboptimal brand needs to win - it needs an elite 1st option to play 2nd option, aka an equal-scoring partner to play "shooter" role and hit the big shots.. Nash/CP3 never had this luxury, while Lebron team-hopped for it

[dbugz]

remove AD and the Lakers is just another west lottery team.

just like last season.

[fourkicks44]

:facepalm

[Bronbron23]

So Davis who had previously made 2 postseasons joins LeBron who was on 8 straight finals, and is now on pace for another, and Davis is the MVP?

Interesting.

All this while LeBron is the premier clutch lockdown defender and league leading assister and culture changer.. to AD the one trick scoring pony

Hmm. Tricky.

Its just kind of funny that yall bron stans have totally switched the narrative to why bron is the best. It used to be stats but now that ad's are better its something different. "Clutch lockdown defender" and "culture changer" is now the narrative. You sound like skip Bayless. Bron stans are amazing:facepalm

[LAL]

Its just kind of funny that yall bron stans have totally switched the narrative to why bron is the best. It used to be stats but now that ad's are better its something different. "Clutch lockdown defender" and "culture changer" is now the narrative. You sound like skip Bayless. Bron stans are amazing:facepalm

Because you've seen how the last ten years winger superstars have gotten complete control of their whole system by handling the ball, putting up monster numbers, guys averaging triple doubles for three seasons straight, guy putting up 37/8/8, a second year player putting up prime lebron numbers, his own teammate killing him in all categories, etc.. they're confused i think, they used to laugh at kobe fans for context. Now they're doing it plus the weird desperate stats.

[Roundball_Rock]

Its just kind of funny that yall bron stans have totally switched the narrative to why bron is the best. It used to be stats but now that ad's are better its something different. "Clutch lockdown defender" and "culture changer" is now the narrative. You sound like skip Bayless. Bron stans are amazing:facepalm

They are acknowledging Davis is great and important to the team which is more than MJ stans can ever do. We don't have 20 "Why Davis Sucks" thread each day or "Why Wade Sucks" threads.

[ImKobe]

They are acknowledging Davis is great and important to the team which is more than MJ stans can ever do. We don't have 20 "Why Davis Sucks" thread each day or "Why Wade Sucks" threads.

Trust me, we've had plenty of threads downplaying the impact of Wade & Davis as Lebron's teammates. Just the other day I saw you guys make a thread on how Wade sabotaged the 2011 Finals.

[Roundball_Rock]

Another lie. That thread was an old thread that was bumped. You probably have to go back months to find a thread like that (the Wade 15.9 PPG one is probably the last one) and its a few outlier posters, not an army of posters going from thread to thread. With insecure MJ stans it is every day, every page and any thread they can glom onto to push the same agenda. :lol

LeBron fans have no need to diminish Davis or Wade because LeBron fans are secure in his record without any individual player...

[ArbitraryWater]

Its just kind of funny that yall bron stans have totally switched the narrative to why bron is the best. It used to be stats but now that ad's are better its something different. "Clutch lockdown defender" and "culture changer" is now the narrative. You sound like skip Bayless. Bron stans are amazing:facepalm

nah, its like always a combination of everything.

your dumbass thinks AD overwhelmingly leads LBJ in stats

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Why do people act like Bron doesn't have good stats?

I don't opine for his greatness, but he's done a good job this year. Leads the league in assists and is owning RPM/PIPM; isolated impact stats.

Sure, AD has impressive raw numbers and is clearly one of the best players right now. Just not better than Bron. Impact and stats aren't mutually exclusive.

[RRR3]

The meltdowns will be incredible if LeBron wins this year.

[tpols]

The meltdowns will be incredible if Anthony Davis wins this year.

Yup... but Lebron will have to up his play to give the man a chance at it.

[Bronbron23]

They are acknowledging Davis is great and important to the team which is more than MJ stans can ever do. We don't have 20 "Why Davis Sucks" thread each day or "Why Wade Sucks" threads.

Ive seen a fair amount of wade hate from bron stans. Havnt seen much about davis yet but its kind of hard to do when all of his numbers are better than brons. Alot of mj fans are wack too though, ill give you that.

[Bronbron23]

Because you've seen how the last ten years winger superstars have gotten complete control of their whole system by handling the ball, putting up monster numbers, guys averaging triple doubles for three seasons straight, guy putting up 37/8/8, a second year player putting up prime lebron numbers, his own teammate killing him in all categories, etc.. they're confused i think, they used to laugh at kobe fans for context. Now they're doing it plus the weird desperate stats.

yeah true. Harden, luka and westbrook have all played similar ball dominant roles and have all put up crazy offensive numbers. They're definitely feeling a certain way.

[tpols]

yeah true. Harden, luka and westbrook have all played similar ball dominant roles and have all put up crazy offensive numbers. They're definitely feeling a certain way.

i havent watched a ton of Luka but he does have a very harden style to him. Nonetheless, his composure, general control, IQ, production, and efficiency for a rookie is standout. Think about what Harden was as a rookie and extrapolate Luka's potential.

[Roundball_Rock]

Why do people act like Bron doesn't have good stats?

I don't opine for his greatness, but he's done a good job this year. Leads the league in assists and is owning RPM/PIPM; isolated impact stats.

Sure, AD has impressive raw numbers and is clearly one of the best players right now. Just not better than Bron. Impact and stats aren't mutually exclusive.

They seem to rely on traditional stats. If you look at advanced stats they are basically on par.


The meltdowns will be incredible if LeBron wins this year.


For sure. :lol

[Hey Yo]

The meltdowns will be incredible if LeBron wins this year.
If they don't win it all.... I wonder if OP will make a thread calling AD a choker who couldn't lead HIS TEAM to a title?

[Bronbron23]

nah, its like always a combination of everything.

your dumbass thinks AD overwhelmingly leads LBJ in stats

Yeah ok buddy. Its always been about stats with you guys. I dont really blame yall though thats really his only argument. He dosnt compare with mj in "everything" else. Eye test is mj by a mile. Chips is mj by a mile and accolades are mj by a fair amount.

But hey at least now you have clutch defense and culture changer too:facepalm

[RRR3]

Yup... but Lebron will have to up his play to give the man a chance at it.
You’re already starting to lose it :lol. I could practically hear you sobbing uncontrollably through the computer the other night after Bron hit the game winner :(

I sure hope we don’t get another 2016 situation, it was tough to see you mentally unravel like that, man. In fact, you’ve never been quite the same since.

[Bronbron23]

i havent watched a ton of Luka but he does have a very harden style to him. Nonetheless, his composure, general control, IQ, production, and efficiency for a rookie is standout. Think about what Harden was as a rookie and extrapolate Luka's potential.

oh forsure its no knock on luka or even harden for that matter. They're both crazy good as is bron. They are testaments though to how great players playing ball dominant styles yield crazy numbers. Its not just lebron is all im saying. Take any great scorer who's a decent passer and put them in a ball dominant role and they're gonna put up lebron like numbers.

[Bronbron23]

The meltdowns will be incredible if LeBron wins this year.

Nah bruh. They'll be melt downs but it'll be bron stans melting down. Either clippers are gonna beat lakers and kawhi will hold lebron to 30% shooting as usual and win fmvp or lakers will win and davis will win fmvp. Either one is the more likely scenario.

[tpols]

You’re already starting to lose it :lol. I could practically hear you sobbing uncontrollably through the computer the other night after Bron hit the game winner :(

I sure hope we don’t get another 2016 situation, it was tough to see you mentally unravel like that, man. In fact, you’ve never been quite the same since.

Mate, I always show up. Win or lose.

It will be you ducking heat like a biaatch when the final results of the bubble come to fruition.

[NBAGOAT]

a big just doesnt impact the game hugely as much on offensive end because of their lack of playmaking, jokic being the exception because he does playmake and towns because he was literally a better shooter than kd this year. AD could be the best player in a series for sure but I dont even think he'll even be the lakers mvp next year.

[Hey Yo]

Nah bruh. They'll be melt downs but it'll be bron stans melting down. Either clippers are gonna beat lakers and kawhi will hold lebron to 30% shooting as usual and win fmvp or lakers will win and davis will win fmvp. Either one is the more likely scenario.
LeBron shot 30% in the 2013 and 14 Finals?

[Bronbron23]

LeBron shot 30% in the 2013 and 14 Finals?

when kawhi was gaurding him he shot that. Heat recognized early that bron was struggling to score against kawhi and they did everything they could to set screens and try to get a switch for a worse defender. He was very inefficient against kawhi bit he was a beast against everyone else.

[StrongLurk]

AD and Lebron have equal value on this team.

However, if we are just judging their talent/skill on offense and their defensive impact in a "vacuum" (aka just lookin at them as individuals not on teams), then AD is ahead of Lebron.

But, Lebron's presence in running the offense and ability to switch on defense brings a lot of impact that doesn't show up in the basic stats.

[Hey Yo]

On how many career FGA from James with Kawhi guarding him?

[FromDowntown]

You saw the game against the Clippers. Davis was draining 3s. He had over 30 points. Lebron made one lucky play at the end. And he also fouled George, you saw George complaining to the ref on an obvious foul.

Davis is the better shooter, free throw shooter, defender, shot blocker, rebounder and even scorer. Lebron leads the Lakers in assists, but he is the point guard. That's his job. Anthony Davis isn't expected to get 10 assists a game. He leads the Lakers in everything else.

Without Davis, the Lakers are not even a playoff team as demonstrated last year. Lebron is older and it's apparent now that Davis runs the show. There's times where Lebron just gives Davis the ball and lets Davis do his thing. Lebron knows he can't just try to dominate the ball anymore. He has to feed it to Anthony Davis.

So if the Lakers win the championship, I don't think this counts for Lebron. This is sort of like when Jason Kidd played with Dirk Nowitzki. Kidd got a ring, but it was Dirk's team. This isn't even close because Davis leads in all statistical categories. And he's the defensive player of the year.

The truth is that Giannis and Anthony Davis should be the 2 MVP candidates. The team belongs to Anthony Davis.

Meltdown

[FireDavidKahn]

I wonder where you got that idea from as the lakers were already trying to recruit him since 2018.

Trying to recruit isn't the same thing as demanding and forcing a trade to play with your friend who made his way to the Lakers.

[Axe]

Trying to recruit isn't the same thing as demanding and forcing a trade to play with your friend who made his way to the Lakers.
Yet the lakers were very interested in him, weren't they? So that's why they sought him out, especially when things didn't go their way last season. And obviously, they already got what they wanted now.

[Shooter]

O pts

[kawhileonard2]

Correct!

[coin24]

With lebron = no playoffs

With mvp Davis = first in west

[TheCorporation]

With lebron = no playoffs

With mvp Davis = first in west

Playoff series won

LeBron = 35
AD = 1

:lol Try again shew

[StrongLurk]

Playoff series won

LeBron = 35
AD = 1

:lol Try again shew

Why troll when that has nothing to do with this year?

[kawhileonard2]

Playoff series won

LeBron = 35
AD = 1

:lol Try again shew

Playoff series won in the West

Lebron = 0
AD = 1

[coin24]

Playoff series won in the West

Lebron = 0
AD = 1

:lol:lol

Poor mini wheels, total dumb cu.nt as usual

[TheCorporation]

Playoff series won in the West

Lebron = 0
AD = 1

LeBron has three Finals wins, beat 3 of the best Western teams.

Try again

:roll:

2 ez my boy

[coin24]

LeBron has three Finals wins, beat 3 of the best Western teams.

Try again

:roll:

2 ez my boy


Out of 9 attempts..

Can't hang with the big dogs out west it seems

[ImKobe]

Playoff series won in the West

Lebron = 0
AD = 1

Yup, and AD took a game from the Warriors in the Playoffs while Bran got swept by a historic margin in 2018.

[LAL]

a big just doesnt impact the game hugely as much on offensive end because of their lack of playmaking, jokic being the exception because he does playmake and towns because he was literally a better shooter than kd this year. AD could be the best player in a series for sure but I dont even think he'll even be the lakers mvp next year.

I think you were one of the people that said Shaq carried Kobe.

[Axe]

Playoff series won in the West

Lebron = 0
AD = 1
Interesting observation

[Gray GOAT]

Isn't it weird how the apparent MVP of the Lakers attempted only 7, yes, seven shots this AM and not see any criticism over it? I think I know the reason as to why, but I digress.

[Gray GOAT]

Playoff series won in the West

Lebron = 0
AD = 1

Actually, LeBron James has won three playoff series against teams from the Western Conference. Despite not playing there for the first 15 years of his career.

[Axe]

Actually, LeBron James has won three playoff series against teams from the Western Conference. Despite not playing there for the first 15 years of his career.
Sad he never got to face kobe and his lakers at all 11 years ago.. Not even once.

[ImKobe]

Isn't it weird how the apparent MVP of the Lakers attempted only 7, yes, seven shots this AM and not see any criticism over it? I think I know the reason as to why, but I digress.

Wasn't a great game by AD's standards, but him and Lebron were the only productive starters in this game. AD had a 146 ORTG despite what his scoring numbers might say (2/7 looks bad, but he had 14 points on 63.9%TS with his perfect FT shooting), and led the starters with a 7.8 BPM.

We shouldn't care as much about these remaining RS games anyway, 1 win out of the 6 remaining and we clinch the #1 seed. Need to give the 2nd unit guys more burn, not worried about AD/Bron/Green in the playoffs tbh.

[Roundball_Rock]

"We lost but my personal O rating was great!"--said no NBA player ever

That's an obsession for a handful of people who post on ISH and RealGM. I never see it waved around on social media or in real life.