Jonathan Isaac becomes first man to not kneel or wear BLM shirt

[ArbitraryWater]

Isaac was asked if he believed that Black lives matter.

"Absolutely," Isaac said. "I believe that Black lives matter. A lot went into my decision and part of it is my thought that kneeling while wearing a Black Lives Matter T-shirt don't go hand in hand with supporting Black lives. And so I felt like, just me personally and what it is that I believe in, standing on a stance that I do believe that Black lives matter, but I just felt like it was a decision that I had to make and I didn't feel like putting that shirt on went hand in hand with supporting Black lives."

Isaac discussed his faith several times while describing why he made his decision.

"I don't think that kneeling or putting on a T-shirt for me, personally, is the answer," he said. "I feel like for me Black lives are supported through the Gospel. All lives are supported through the Gospel. That we all have things that we do wrong and sometimes it gets into a place of pointing fingers about which wrong is worse.

"I feel like the Bible tells us we all fall short of God's glory and at the end of the day whoever will humble themselves and seek God and repent of their sins that we could see it in a different light -- see our mistakes and people's mistakes in a different light, see people's evil in a different light. And that it would help bring us closer together and get past anything that's on the surface that doesn't really deal with the hearts of men and women."


brave young man :applause:

[Lebron23]

Freedom of Speech.

[Clippersfan86]

Hero. Yet he's being called a "Coon" and "Uncle Tom". You know because racism is the answer to racism. Can't have too many principaled, intelligent, free thinking Black men who believe in God running around!

[Whoah10115]

Hero. Yet he's being called a "Coon" and "Uncle Tom". You know because racism is the answer to racism. Can't have too many principaled, intelligent, free thinking Black men who believe in God running around!

I don't know what any of this really means.

All for his approach. Popovich didn't kneel and he'd be obvious to some people. The rest of your post a little off for me.

[Clippersfan86]

I don't know what any of this really means.

All for his approach. Popovich didn't kneel and he'd be obvious to some people. The rest of your post a little off for me.

It means the second someone expresses a different, and especially opposite POV they are treated like crap and deemed a traitor. Black people courageous enough to speak out that they have a different view than the majority are viciously attacked as "coons" etc. If you are a Christian you are called to put Jesus first, even ahead of your own people, and family. Seeing Issac do it at 22 years old and with so much maturity+clarity was powerful.

If you don't understand what I'm saying you're naive or blind. You've failed to witness what's happening all around you. Maybe you're comfortable with the group think, censorship and destruction of Christianity in America.

[ArbitraryWater]

Its very refreshing to see people openly celebrate their beliefs and praise God and Jesus and not let the censorship and attempted assassination of Christianity win over.

[Kblaze8855]

Hero. Yet he's being called a "Coon" and "Uncle Tom". You know because racism is the answer to racism. Can't have too many principaled, intelligent, free thinking Black men who believe in God running around!

Go to his Twitter. Hundreds of people praising him and talking about how hated he is and almost no actual hate to reply to.

[Clippersfan86]

Go to his Twitter. Hundreds of people praising him and talking about how hated he is and almost no actual hate to reply to.

On HIS Twitter sure. Yet Yahoo and other media outlets basically attacking him as fraudulent and if you do a general Twitter search of his name you'll see PLENTY of the "coon" police. Same with YouTube comments

[Stanley Kobrick]

Go to his Twitter. Hundreds of people praising him and talking about how hated he is and almost no actual hate to reply to.
:cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

Go to his Twitter. Hundreds of people praising him and talking about how hated he is and almost no actual hate to reply to.

We all know left is seething.

If everyone would do this they'd be fuming

[LAL]

That's a real man. I commend his parents, especially his father.

[Kblaze8855]

I just searched him. I stopped counting at 58 consecutive posts of praise. I’m sure I could find criticism if I searched for it specifically with the right words but it’s clear where most people seem to stand. Either praise or not caring.

You could find anyone being hated if you look for their name and hateful terms. General thoughts seem to be positive.

[LAL]

I just searched him. I stopped counting at 58 consecutive posts of praise. I’m sure I could find criticism if I searched for it specifically with the right words but it’s clear where most people seem to stand. Either praise or not caring.

Lucky he's not Terry Crews or many others that were and still are labeled as coons and uncle toms.. for less.

[BigKobeFan]

I dont get why blacks stigmatize being an uncle tom. You woild think you want to be a grant hill or chris webber or some tupac or biggie type

[Rolando]

Freedom

[PeroAntic]

This guy justifying his position on a complex social issue with the Bible and the gospel:facepalm

[Clippersfan86]

I dont get why blacks stigmatize being an uncle tom. You woild think you want to be a grant hill or chris webber or some tupac or biggie type

Yep. Successful, well spoken, intelligent people frowned upon. You should WANT to be those people as you say

[Clippersfan86]

This guy justifying his position on a complex social issue with the Bible and the gospel:facepalm

When you are Christian your standard, your values and your way of life comes from Jesus, not the law of man. You are literally called not to get involved with the quarrels of man. Jesus for example did everything in his power to stay out of Roman politics.

So his stand has everything to do with this. He's not going to involve himself in divisive politics that serve no purpose for his own life or faith. He's going to put God first and attempt to forgive, not point the finger and bring everyone together.

Amazing display of courage.

[Clippersfan86]

I just searched him. I stopped counting at 58 consecutive posts of praise. I’m sure I could find criticism if I searched for it specifically with the right words but it’s clear where most people seem to stand. Either praise or not caring.

You could find anyone being hated if you look for their name and hateful terms. General thoughts seem to be positive.

I can agree there is a lot of positive too.

[Clippersfan86]

Wow. YouTube deleted my detailed response supporting Issac on that ESPN clip.

[Gruppenführer]

I love how the first question he is asked by the pathetic media is whether or not he thinks black lives matter. As if kneeling is all of a sudden a prerequisite to showing you support a specific cause. Pathetic.

[RRR3]

I dont get why blacks stigmatize being an uncle tom. You woild think you want to be a grant hill or chris webber or some tupac or biggie type
Tupac was brilliant, pretty bad take if you’re trying to use him as an example of a stereotypical brainless thug. Not that you are capable of understanding nuance. Biggie was far from stupid as well, should be obvious from his lyrics.

[RRR3]

He’s allowed to do what he wants and it’s hilarious for white people to question whether a black man cares about black lives.

[Clippersfan86]

Tupac was brilliant, pretty bad take if you’re trying to use him as an example of a stereotypical brainless thug. Not that you are capable of understanding nuance. Biggie was far from stupid as well, should be obvious from his lyrics.

I don't think he's talking about intelligence. He's talking about aspiring to be a "gangster" as both of those guys claimed. Why is one thing idolized as pro black, where as the clean cut, well spoken, educated black man is frowned upon?

[Mask the Embiid]

I dont get why blacks stigmatize being an uncle tom. You woild think you want to be a grant hill or chris webber or some tupac or biggie type

It kills you that we dont try to conform to you or kiss your pink ass like the other races.

Any black who does will be an outcast to us

[BigKobeFan]

I don't think he's talking about intelligence. He's talking about aspiring to be a "gangster" as both of those guys claimed. Why is one thing idolized as pro black, where as the clean cut, well spoken, educated black man is frowned upon?

Bingo.

[ArbitraryWater]

It kills you that we dont try to conform to you or kiss your pink ass like the other races.

Any black who does will be an outcast to us

i thought u changed for the better but you carry so much hate in your heart :(

[Mask the Embiid]

i thought u changed for the better but you carry so much hate in your heart :(

im a work in a progress

[Whoah10115]

When you are Christian your standard, your values and your way of life comes from Jesus, not the law of man. You are literally called not to get involved with the quarrels of man. Jesus for example did everything in his power to stay out of Roman politics.

So his stand has everything to do with this. He's not going to involve himself in divisive politics that serve no purpose for his own life or faith. He's going to put God first and attempt to forgive, not point the finger and bring everyone together.

Amazing display of courage.

I don't think you're the only Christian in here so you're speaking quite blindly.

Also, minimizing Jesus in the historical context. Trying to stay out of politics...honestly that has nothing to do with Jesus.

[Bronbron23]

It means the second someone expresses a different, and especially opposite POV they are treated like crap and deemed a traitor. Black people courageous enough to speak out that they have a different view than the majority are viciously attacked as "coons" etc. If you are a Christian you are called to put Jesus first, even ahead of your own people, and family. Seeing Issac do it at 22 years old and with so much maturity+clarity was powerful.

If you don't understand what I'm saying you're naive or blind. You've failed to witness what's happening all around you. Maybe you're comfortable with the group think, censorship and destruction of Christianity in America.

Yeah this definitely happens but sometimes it is a nucka acting like a coon although this dosnt seem to be the case with isaac

[Kblaze8855]

I don't think he's talking about intelligence. He's talking about aspiring to be a "gangster" as both of those guys claimed. Why is one thing idolized as pro black, where as the clean cut, well spoken, educated black man is frowned upon?

It really isn’t. I am exactly the same in what you would call the “hood” as I am with wealthy white people. Nobody ever has a problem with me. It’s people who do well and act like the poor are somehow beneath them that have problems. Kids used to notice how I speak back in the day but as an adult? Nobody gives a shit.

[Clippersfan86]

It really isn’t. I am exactly the same in what you would call the “hood” as I am with wealthy white people. Nobody ever has a problem with me. It’s people who do well and act like the poor are somehow beneath them that have problems. Kids used to notice how I speak back in the day but as an adult? Nobody gives a shit.

Maybe the minority is the loudest in the room but if you don't see black people being attacked as coons, and Uncle Tom anytime they are different, I'm not sure what to tell you. It's plastered all over the place.

[Kblaze8855]

Being “different” or educated or well spoken and an Uncle Tom aren’t at all the same thing. It’s question of what you actually say and do.

Some of the most well spoken guys in black communities are also walking around business casual or in downright suits and few call them uncle toms because they are Muslims and five percenters. Malcolm X was well spoken and intelligent and nobody takes issue. Then as now it’s about what you are saying not if your parents made you enunciate or if you like dress shoes.

It isn’t appearance or attire. It isn’t education.

Peolle get called uncle toms because they act like it not because they have a degree. The black community doesn’t laugh when a kid gets into college. That’s bullshit from movies. Find a video of a black kid posting an acceptance letter. See 900 other black people loving it.

Nobody clowns you for an education. That’s an incredibly weak stereotype.

[LAL]

Being “different” or educated or well spoken and an Uncle Tom aren’t at all the same thing. It’s question of what you actually say and do.

Some of the most well spoken guys in black communities are also walking around business casual or in downright suits and few call them uncle toms because they are Muslims and five percenters. Malcolm X was well spoken and intelligent and nobody takes issue. Then as now it’s about what you are saying not if your parents made you enunciate or if you like dress shoes.

It isn’t appearance or attire. It isn’t education.

Peolle get called uncle toms because they act like it not because they have a degree. The black community doesn’t laugh when a kid gets into college. That’s bullshit from movies. Find a video of a black kid posting an acceptance letter. See 900 other black people loving it.

Nobody clowns you for an education. That’s an incredibly weak stereotype.

I love your basketball takes

[Clippersfan86]

I don't think you're the only Christian in here so you're speaking quite blindly.

Also, minimizing Jesus in the historical context. Trying to stay out of politics...honestly that has nothing to do with Jesus.

I'm explaining my perception of what Isaac is saying. I'm not saying it is the only way necessarily.

[insight]

When you are Christian your standard, your values and your way of life comes from Jesus, not the law of man. You are literally called not to get involved with the quarrels of man. Jesus for example did everything in his power to stay out of Roman politics.

So his stand has everything to do with this. He's not going to involve himself in divisive politics that serve no purpose for his own life or faith. He's going to put God first and attempt to forgive, not point the finger and bring everyone together.

Amazing display of courage.

I respect your point of view, but I think you representation of Jesus was inaccurate. Jesus called out the political leaders of his time and challenged the leaders of his time . He confronted the Sadducees and Pharisee who were the Mosaic authority of Jewish Law and questioned their authority. After his death, most of his Disciples were jailed and murdered by the Roman Empire for teaching the gospel.
The abolitionist movement and Civil rights movement was born out of the church. Moses said " Let My People Go" he was lead by God to confront the oppressors, not just forgive.

[Clippersfan86]

Being “different” or educated or well spoken and an Uncle Tom aren’t at all the same thing. It’s question of what you actually say and do.

Some of the most well spoken guys in black communities are also walking around business casual or in downright suits and few call them uncle toms because they are Muslims and five percenters. Malcolm X was well spoken and intelligent and nobody takes issue. Then as now it’s about what you are saying not if your parents made you enunciate or if you like dress shoes.

It isn’t appearance or attire. It isn’t education.

Peolle get called uncle toms because they act like it not because they have a degree. The black community doesn’t laugh when a kid gets into college. That’s bullshit from movies. Find a video of a black kid posting an acceptance letter. See 900 other black people loving it.

Nobody clowns you for an education. That’s an incredibly weak stereotype.

The same way my argument is likely too far to one extreme, yours is on the other end. There is rampant division and black on black racism within the black community. It's not exactly a secret. The stigma has nothing to do with getting an education. It has to do with "acting white" or black. Being perceived as a sellout. I think you know damn well that's a very real thing. Just because you anecdotally haven't experienced it doesn't mean it's not happening.

The very fact that you are perceived as more or less black based on life decisions, personality in itself is incredibly racist. If we truly want to combat racism and bigotry we need to start accepting different views and label less

[coin24]

Hero. Yet he's being called a "Coon" and "Uncle Tom". You know because racism is the answer to racism. Can't have too many principaled, intelligent, free thinking Black men who believe in God running around!

If any black goes against the dems propaganda he is an Uncle Tom :lol talk about a bunch of morons.
They are laying this black lives matter shit on a bit thick with the jerseys and all the ads

[Kblaze8855]

Rampant division and black on black racism? Being a sellout for making money I suppose? Please stop talking like a bad tv show. The idea of “acting white” is something that exists but it’s not common or nearly what you are acting like. It isn’t a problem with people who went to college...go check the numbers on college educated black women. It isn’t having money. It’s an attitude. It’s how you treat people. It’s who you align yourself with and for what purpose.

Now a black republican will definitely hear about it but it won’t be the kinda scene it seems like you think about.

Know a guy who is a college educated, black, conservative, truck driving, ex cop in Williamston South Carolina. Picture a chubby Karl Malone. Yes he hears about it from people(his aunt especially doesn’t like that he was a cop). But his mom died and he and some mutual friends came over and we just hung out, drank to her, and played madden. Shit really isn’t that serious. And he was a Trump supporter too till recently(Trump has made him more of a libertarian). Well spoken black people aren’t walking around ostracized forced to be with the whites.

Nobody cares you have a good job. People care when you start echoing talking points they would likely see as anti black and against the poor. I’ve never in my life seen a black person treated as an outcast for going to school and making money. I’ve seen outcasts who did those things then became assholes. And that has nothing to do with race. Black people aren’t mad at black doctors, professors, and engineers for going to school and having money.

Even the dumbest guy on the block nods in approval when a local kid makes it. Being successful is praised as it should. Acting like a jackass is not.

[tpols]

I noticed Nurkic yesterday had his name on his jersey... just Nurkic. Good shit, they couldn't cuck him.

[Clippersfan86]

Rampant division and black on black racism? Being a sellout for making money I suppose? Please stop talking like a bad tv show. The idea of “acting white” is something that exists but it’s not common or nearly what you are acting like. It isn’t a problem with people who went to college...go check the numbers on college educated black women. It isn’t having money. It’s an attitude. It’s how you treat people. It’s who you align yourself with and for what purpose.

Now a black republican will definitely hear about it but it won’t be the kinda scene it seems like you think about.

Know a guy who is a college educated, black, conservative, truck driving, ex cop in Williamston South Carolina. Picture a chubby Karl Malone. Yes he hears about it from people(his aunt especially doesn’t like that he was a cop). But his mom died and he and some mutual friends came over and we just hung out, drank to her, and played madden. Shit really isn’t that serious. And he was a Trump supporter too till recently(Trump has made him more of a libertarian). Well spoken black people aren’t walking around ostracized forced to be with the whites.

Nobody cares you have a good job. People care when you start echoing talking points they would likely see as anti black and against the poor. I’ve never in my life seen a black person treated as an outcast for going to school and making money. I’ve seen outcasts who did those things then became assholes. And that has nothing to do with race. Black people aren’t mad at black doctors, professors, and engineers for going to school and having money.

Even the dumbest guy on the block nods in approval when a local kid makes it. Being successful is praised as it should. Acting like a jackass is not.

I think black conservatives have it the worst. I'm exposed to it a lot as a conservative guy on social media a lot. I don't disagree that it's not about them succeeding exactly, that's just more of a correlation. Thing is what about when those "talking points" have actual validity? Why would that affect one's blackness?

[insight]

If any black goes against the dems propaganda he is an Uncle Tom :lol talk about a bunch of morons.
They are laying this black lives matter shit on a bit thick with the jerseys and all the ads

Uncle Tom historically applied to blacks who embraced servitude during slavery. The term is thrown around frequently now a days but it's not different from people accusing others of being communist, Socialist, Right Wingers, etc. The real morons are those who really think it's about Democrats or Republicans, when both parties are not passing laws the reflect the will of the people. Historically the majority of blacks were republicans and the KKK was closely aligned with the Democratic Party. Both parties have allowed systemic racial inequalities to exist in policies and laws.

[KD7]

Props to him for not being afraid to express how he feels and not following the rest of the herd like a blind sheep :applause:

[insight]

If you label yourself people are going to criticize you based on their perception of that label or symbol. The label black conservative have multiple meanings, there is a huge difference between Booker T Washington conservatism and Clarence Thomas conservatism. Ultimately a man stands on his principles and values and cares little about others may think. Racism in America is different, because laws are supposed to be color blind but that is not the case.

[Bronbron23]

Being “different” or educated or well spoken and an Uncle Tom aren’t at all the same thing. It’s question of what you actually say and do.

Some of the most well spoken guys in black communities are also walking around business casual or in downright suits and few call them uncle toms because they are Muslims and five percenters. Malcolm X was well spoken and intelligent and nobody takes issue. Then as now it’s about what you are saying not if your parents made you enunciate or if you like dress shoes.

It isn’t appearance or attire. It isn’t education.

Peolle get called uncle toms because they act like it not because they have a degree. The black community doesn’t laugh when a kid gets into college. That’s bullshit from movies. Find a video of a black kid posting an acceptance letter. See 900 other black people loving it.

Nobody clowns you for an education. That’s an incredibly weak stereotype.

Yeah kind of. They definitely dont call other black people uncle toms for being educated. There is a misconception among some blacks that you have to speak and act a certain way to be "real" though. There are some blacks that think you have to talk and act like street nuckas to be "real". They think someone like iverson is more "real" than someone who is no less black but isnt street. Basically there definition of blackness is defined by there own very small reality. They may not think a "well" spoken black man in a nice suit with a nice job is a uncle tom but they often have a perception there not as "real or black" as them.

[Whoah10115]

I think black conservatives have it the worst. I'm exposed to it a lot as a conservative guy on social media a lot. I don't disagree that it's not about them succeeding exactly, that's just more of a correlation. Thing is what about when those "talking points" have actual validity? Why would that affect one's blackness?

I think you're just losing this argument.

[FourthTenor]

I don't think he's talking about intelligence. He's talking about aspiring to be a "gangster" as both of those guys claimed. Why is one thing idolized as pro black, where as the clean cut, well spoken, educated black man is frowned upon?


People of all races are ethnocentric. They think their values are the best, and this is natural because values are something we choose. If we didnt think our own values were the best... then we’d adopt different ones.

Nephew Tre’Davious may scoff at Uncle Tom’s lifestyle, but Uncle Tom prob doesnt have a lot of respect for Neph’s either. Just like pink haired Timothy Soychild often resents Bill Smith driving to his corporate job in a mercedes... while Bill probably thinks Timmy is a lazy cuck.

Also a lot of different kinds of Asian people hate each other.

Youre right the Uncle Tom thing probably gets the most “publicity” in America. But it’s not really an unusual phenomenon among any group of people.

[PeroAntic]

When you are Christian your standard, your values and your way of life comes from Jesus, not the law of man. You are literally called not to get involved with the quarrels of man. Jesus for example did everything in his power to stay out of Roman politics.

So his stand has everything to do with this. He's not going to involve himself in divisive politics that serve no purpose for his own life or faith. He's going to put God first and attempt to forgive, not point the finger and bring everyone together.

Amazing display of courage.

Amazing display of stupidity. So he thinks hes above earthly matters? What the hell got Jesus to do with racism in America in the 21st century anyway?

If his standards are Jesus level standards maybe he should give all his money to the poor. but from his statement it really sounds like the guy has no clue what hes talking about and just says random religious shit to justify not joining the cause. it would have been at least more honest if it was some christian fundamentalism even if it would have been equally dumb

[FourthTenor]

Amazing display of stupidity. So he thinks hes above earthly matters? What the hell got Jesus to do with racism in America in the 21st century anyway?

If his standards are Jesus level standards maybe he should give all his money to the poor. but from his statement it really sounds like the guy has no clue what hes talking about and just says random religious shit to justify not joining the cause. it would have been at least more honest if it was some christian fundamentalism even if it would have been equally dumb


Well to be fair, kneeling down during “the pre-game patriot song” and wearing a t-shirt somebody handed you has nothing to do with improving the black community. And most of the guys kneeling have no idea what theyre talking about.

So at the very least, he probably made the right decision, even if you disagree with his reasons for doing so.


Let’s face it, nothing involving this entire flag “controversy” has made any sense from the beginning.

[PeroAntic]

Well to be fair, kneeling down during “the pre-game patriot song” and wearing a t-shirt somebody handed you has nothing to do with improving the black community. And most of the guys kneeling have no idea what theyre talking about.

So at the very least, he probably made the right decision, even if you disagree with his reasons for doing so.


Let’s face it, nothing involving this entire flag “controversy” has made any sense from the beginning.

If he said that I would respect it, even if I disagree to a degree, but not the Jesus crap.

[Clippersfan86]

I think you're just losing this argument.

I think you aren't adding anything meaningful to it, so I guess we don't have to agree. Nobody loses or wins an argument based on opinion and anecdote. We are simple discussing and not agreeing.

[Clippersfan86]

Amazing display of stupidity. So he thinks hes above earthly matters? What the hell got Jesus to do with racism in America in the 21st century anyway?

If his standards are Jesus level standards maybe he should give all his money to the poor. but from his statement it really sounds like the guy has no clue what hes talking about and just says random religious shit to justify not joining the cause. it would have been at least more honest if it was some christian fundamentalism even if it would have been equally dumb

BLM isn't truly about racism. It's got its own agenda that doesn't have a place for ALL black lives. Only ones who support their own little Marxist fantasy. To act like BLM support is the same as anti racism is what is truly dumb here

[Haymaker]

I like players standing during the anthem and I love that they're being accepted by their teammates for doing so because those who kneel are setting an example on free speech and unity. It's the opposite of what Kaepernick had to endure.

[FourthTenor]

I like players standing during the anthem and I love that they're being accepted by their teammates for doing so because those who kneel are setting an example on free speech and unity. It's the opposite of what Kaepernick had to endure.


IMO the whole pre game flag thing should just stop. Personally Ive found it to be awkward long before this current machloket.

Standing or kneeling is just a ceremonial display of conformity. Its not a meaningful action in any way.

If people wanna support the military or support black communities there are far more productive ways to go about it.

Im on board with both causes if theyre approached the right way (which theyre usually not) and I love the USA, but doing a “Pledge of allegiance” before sporting events is an antiquated occupation IMO.

[Bronbron23]

BLM isn't truly about racism. It's got its own agenda that doesn't have a place for ALL black lives. Only ones who support their own little Marxist fantasy. To act like BLM support is the same as anti racism is what is truly dumb here

Its been hijacked by some using it for their own agenda but Blm is mostly definitely about racism and equality.

[PeroAntic]

BLM isn't truly about racism. It's got its own agenda that doesn't have a place for ALL black lives. Only ones who support their own little Marxist fantasy. To act like BLM support is the same as anti racism is what is truly dumb here
If by 'marxist fantasy' you mean recognizing that modern racism is a direct consequence of capitalist gaslighting strategy, then ok.

Jesus was a socialist btw.

[FourthTenor]

If by 'marxist fantasy' you mean recognizing that modern racism is a direct consequence of capitalist gaslighting strategy, then ok.

Jesus was a socialist btw.


Oy. :facepalm

[Clippersfan86]

If by 'marxist fantasy' you mean recognizing that modern racism is a direct consequence of capitalist gaslighting strategy, then ok.

Jesus was a socialist btw.

Their mission statement excludes black men. It's literally a feminism/LGBQT centered movement. It's anti religion. Anti traditional family (believes in children being raised by the collective community). Pro abortion. All things that aren't exactly pro black. On top of that the leaders in interviews have come out as openly Marxist. Conservative and masculine black men are simply not welcome. To claim this is all about equality and racism is incredibly naive.

[PeroAntic]

Their mission statement excludes black men. It's literally a feminism/LGBQT centered movement. It's anti religion. Anti traditional family (believes in children being raised by the collective community). Pro abortion. All things that aren't exactly pro black. On top of that the leaders in interviews have come out as openly Marxist. Conservative and masculine black men are simply not welcome. To claim this is all about equality and racism is incredibly naive.

None of these things are either black or white (never heard about children raised by collective community tbh). Regardless where the majority of black people stand on some issues, there is no doubt that capitalism is fostering racism through indirect paths. Power structures manifest themselves in many ways, so understanding this is the first step to fighting it.

Again, would have been ok if the guy said Im pro capitalism, so I don't support BLM. Fair, legit. But hiding behind meaningless bible cliches just shows what is the role of religion today - to help keep the current system in place.

[Clippersfan86]

None of these things are either black or white (never heard about children raised by collective community tbh). Regardless where the majority of black people stand on some issues, there is no doubt that capitalism is fostering racism through indirect paths. Power structures manifest themselves in many ways, so understanding this is the first step to fighting it.

Again, would have been ok if the guy said Im pro capitalism, so I don't support BLM. Fair, legit. But hiding behind meaningless bible cliches just shows what is the role of religion today - to help keep the current system in place.

Take 5 minutes and go read their lengthy mission statement. You may come away realizing it sounds more like LGBQT/feminism/socialism propaganda than anything really related to black rights and equality. I'm not a hardcore capitalist btw. I think it's been proven to be far more successful in practice than any execution of true socialism or communism, but it has its own problems.

Nothing about what Issac said though was disrespectful. He just expressed his personal views. Why should we be intolerant to them when we expect tolerance and understanding the other way?

[Whoah10115]

I think you aren't adding anything meaningful to it, so I guess we don't have to agree. Nobody loses or wins an argument based on opinion and anecdote. We are simple discussing and not agreeing.

You're assuming a lot, and even if isn't from a place of malice, they're just talking points.

Not that I disagree on the difference between BLM and the BLM group.

[Clippersfan86]

You're assuming a lot, and even if isn't from a place of malice, they're just talking points.

Not that I disagree on the difference between BLM and the BLM group.

In all fairness, I don't think it's easy to make a compelling argument when it can only be based on subjectivity and anecdote as I said. There is no science or research behind these specific things really (like what exact perimeters to be an Uncle Tom, or how many "Coons" are labeled by black people etc). There is great limitation to this kind of topic.

[FourthTenor]

Their mission statement excludes black men. It's literally a feminism/LGBQT centered movement. It's anti religion. Anti traditional family (believes in children being raised by the collective community). Pro abortion. All things that aren't exactly pro black. On top of that the leaders in interviews have come out as openly Marxist. Conservative and masculine black men are simply not welcome. To claim this is all about equality and racism is incredibly naive.


:lebronamazed:


Damn.

[Clippersfan86]

Because I know people are going to ask for my source and won't look it up on their own site, here is the BLM mission statement (I left out the first couple paragraphs because they aren't anything discussion worthy). The first couple sections seem reasonable and perfectly harmless. I'll bold what I was referring to though. Notice there is no mention of the brutality that's mostly done to black MEN? To me it seems like the priority is more about gay rights, feminism, dismantling the system (including traditional family's).

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=a65a23a16bc1b4c6f4e498dc70d25 b4f54f32f61-1596335125-0-ATx2shQ5aC4XKY0Vyx1rvQeU807za2IeZVsF40yJxdN6fY5qnv PwKCWxcCPa-fksrBqGzgNvTLwVfdxGYxhyf5bpT26Y-BORZ7tyLtFjd0akDN5G5KkqIM-fZpa2lCEpvl7EqIqOULsWRQYseUi9eLoCArOlsTK1S3bnXsp9N VCTphsGsiMAMXqRrpfWlZ96RjBnS_IbTWHJN8UjIbkmT6xrI7t McSAithBxUMZxQvmGv9Oweo1pVG8d2JZ-VSjqCcy2JWiDcB_Z9PT-rHkFIh88aV3IK8XBznUwLtV_DS-5B1eksjOmz-JoDmDPYPtMBmGag0LQFU6ljn7vo6Kza0c3h0o6Kl8Kizxz4Tg3 CvFN


'We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.

We see ourselves as part of the global Black family, and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black people who exist in different parts of the world.

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.

We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

We cultivate an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with the capacity to lead and learn.

We embody and practice justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.'

[Haymaker]

You keep saying "SOCIALISM" but I fail to see what Marx or Engels had to do with anything in that mission statement.

[FourthTenor]

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=a65a23a16bc1b4c6f4e498dc70d25 b4f54f32f61-1596335125-0-ATx2shQ5aC4XKY0Vyx1rvQeU807za2IeZVsF40yJxdN6fY5qnv PwKCWxcCPa-fksrBqGzgNvTLwVfdxGYxhyf5bpT26Y-BORZ7tyLtFjd0akDN5G5KkqIM-fZpa2lCEpvl7EqIqOULsWRQYseUi9eLoCArOlsTK1S3bnXsp9N VCTphsGsiMAMXqRrpfWlZ96RjBnS_IbTWHJN8UjIbkmT6xrI7t McSAithBxUMZxQvmGv9Oweo1pVG8d2JZ-VSjqCcy2JWiDcB_Z9PT-rHkFIh88aV3IK8XBznUwLtV_DS-5B1eksjOmz-JoDmDPYPtMBmGag0LQFU6ljn7vo6Kza0c3h0o6Kl8Kizxz4Tg3 CvFN


'We are unapologetically Black in our positioning. In affirming that Black Lives Matter, we need not qualify our position. To love and desire freedom and justice for ourselves is a prerequisite for wanting the same for others.

We see ourselves as part of the global Black family, and we are aware of the different ways we are impacted or privileged as Black people who exist in different parts of the world.

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.

We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

We cultivate an intergenerational and communal network free from ageism. We believe that all people, regardless of age, show up with the capacity to lead and learn.

We embody and practice justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another.'


:roll:

Anyone who reads that and does not instinctively think “CORNY AS FVCK” should reconsider any semblance of male identity they might have held.

[BigtimeNBAFan]

I certainly support his right not to protest just as I support player's rights to protest, but his reasoning seemed strange and vague. The NBA is full of Christians that are protesting. Honestly if he would have just said something generic like; "I respect the flag and will always stand for it," it would have been a better answer than what he gave.

[PeroAntic]

Take 5 minutes and go read their lengthy mission statement. You may come away realizing it sounds more like LGBQT/feminism/socialism propaganda than anything really related to black rights and equality. I'm not a hardcore capitalist btw. I think it's been proven to be far more successful in practice than any execution of true socialism or communism, but it has its own problems.

Nothing about what Issac said though was disrespectful. He just expressed his personal views. Why should we be intolerant to them when we expect tolerance and understanding the other way?
You still fail to understand that the capitalism/socialism dichotomy underlies the issue of black rights and equality. Exploitation for profit is the origin of slavery, and racism was the justification for it. Fast forward to today, it has become more subtle, but if you take a look at all the dog whistling about lazy criminal negroes coming from billionaire owned media corporations and how this takes root in people's minds, you will see its just a way to turn people to each other instead of overthrowing the ruling class.

As for Isaac, I never said he was disrespectful, nor am I being intolerant of it. Just calling it as the bs that it is. Jesus doesn't allow him to take sides in social matters. lol please

[Haymaker]

You still fail to understand that the capitalism/socialism dichotomy underlies the issue of black rights and equality. Exploitation for profit is the origin of slavery, and racism was the justification for it. Fast forward to today, it has become more subtle, but if you take a look at all the dog whistling about lazy criminal negroes coming from billionaire owned media corporations and how this takes root in people's minds, you will see its just a way to turn people to each other instead of overthrowing the ruling class.

As for Isaac, I never said he was disrespectful, nor am I being intolerant of it. Just calling it as the bs that it is. Jesus doesn't allow him to take sides in social matters. lol please

Don't waste your time with ClippersTURD86. The dude rides the shortbus.

[Clippersfan86]

Don't waste your time with ClippersTURD86. The dude rides the shortbus.

You're entitled to love Socialism man.

[MaxPlayer]

I'd love to see someone just stretch or shoot jumpers during the anthem. BLM and the nationalists are both just too much.

[Clippersfan86]

You still fail to understand that the capitalism/socialism dichotomy underlies the issue of black rights and equality. Exploitation for profit is the origin of slavery, and racism was the justification for it. Fast forward to today, it has become more subtle, but if you take a look at all the dog whistling about lazy criminal negroes coming from billionaire owned media corporations and how this takes root in people's minds, you will see its just a way to turn people to each other instead of overthrowing the ruling class.

As for Isaac, I never said he was disrespectful, nor am I being intolerant of it. Just calling it as the bs that it is. Jesus doesn't allow him to take sides in social matters. lol please

BLM is entirely incompatible with Christianity in reality. I posted reasons why. They are vehemently anti traditional family, pro LGBQT, pro abortion, anti religion. I don't think you're possibly this dense. You HAVE to be feigning ignorance here. Why would a devout Christian support BLM? That would take extreme cognitive dissonance. Sure, most guys in the league identify as "Christian". The same ones who bang a new woman every other night to cheat on their wife. The same ones doing a ton of drugs, hard partying, knocking up 5 different women outside of their marriage. The difference here is clearly Issac is a lot more devout seemingly.

BLM is a legitimate principal and fair movement generally speaking, but as an organization they have much deeper ulterior motives and great corruption.

[FourthTenor]

You still fail to understand that the capitalism/socialism dichotomy underlies the issue of black rights and equality. Exploitation for profit is the origin of slavery, and racism was the justification for it. Fast forward to today, it has become more subtle, but if you take a look at all the dog whistling about lazy criminal negroes coming from billionaire owned media corporations and how this takes root in people's minds, you will see its just a way to turn people to each other instead of overthrowing the ruling class.

As for Isaac, I never said he was disrespectful, nor am I being intolerant of it. Just calling it as the bs that it is. Jesus doesn't allow him to take sides in social matters. lol please


:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:


This nikka think human slavery started in the 1500s with white people enslaving black people :roll:


God DAMN, the ignorance in this world...

[Clippersfan86]

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:


This nikka think human slavery started in the 1500s with white people enslaving black people :roll:


God DAMN, the ignorance in this world...

Muslim slave trade predates it by THOUSANDS of years lmao. Same with Egyptian slavery and many other ancient civilizations.

[FourthTenor]

Muslim slave trade predates it by THOUSANDS of years lmao. Same with Egyptian slavery and many other ancient civilizations.


*Technically I think you mean Arab slave trade, Islam itself was founded around 600 AD, so it predates the trans-atlantic (trans, lol) slave trade by some 900 years roughly. But to your point, slavery is as old as civilization itself, and to say it originates from western free market capitalism suggests that user must not be older than 20 years old.

If he is he ought to be ashamed of himself for getting swept up in such a silly agenda full of ignorance.

[PeroAntic]

*Technically I think you mean Arab slave trade, Islam itself was founded around 600 AD, so it predates the trans-atlantic (trans, lol) slave trade by some 900 years roughly. But to your point, slavery is as old as civilization itself, and to say it originates from western free market capitalism suggests that user must not be older than 20 years old.

If he is he ought to be ashamed of himself for getting swept up in such a silly agenda full of ignorance.

it is the origin of african american slavery. and racism has been used to justify it and institutionalize it. these are facts. its a matter of institutionalized POWER, it always has been, and throughout history it was employed by instrumentalizing race for the purposes of subjugation. how slavery existing throughout history absolves capitalism from making sure that black people in America are chained to the bottom is truly beyond me.

[Clippersfan86]

*Technically I think you mean Arab slave trade, Islam itself was founded around 600 AD, so it predates the trans-atlantic (trans, lol) slave trade by some 900 years roughly. But to your point, slavery is as old as civilization itself, and to say it originates from western free market capitalism suggests that user must not be older than 20 years old.

If he is he ought to be ashamed of himself for getting swept up in such a silly agenda full of ignorance.

Fair point. Yes Arab slave trade is far more accurate.

[MaxPlayer]

it is the origin of african american slavery. and racism has been used to justify it and institutionalize it. these are facts. its a matter of institutionalized POWER, it always has been, and throughout history it was employed by instrumentalizing race for the purposes of subjugation. how slavery existing throughout history absolves capitalism from making sure that black people in America are chained to the bottom is truly beyond me.

Maybe because its shows that slavery is a longstanding human institution rather than a function of a political ideology that you happen not to like.

[FourthTenor]

it is the origin of african american slavery. and racism has been used to justify it and institutionalize it. these are facts. its a matter of institutionalized POWER, it always has been, and throughout history it was employed by instrumentalizing race for the purposes of subjugation. how slavery existing throughout history absolves capitalism from making sure that black people in America are chained to the bottom is truly beyond me.


The two things have nothing to do with each other.

Slavery was simply an accepted aspect of life for the vast majority of human history. It set MANY groups back, of ALL races.

Just because black Americans are the most recent/relevant example here in the United States in the year 2020 does not mean their situation is unique to human history. There are many, many, many years of history left to be written, and dynamics will continuously change as they always have.

Just because slavery existed for about 300 years in America does not mean we have to make down into up and left into right and black into white. Youre free to give ALL your money to black causes if you want. Do it! Black people are free to stay, to leave, to work, to play, whatever.

Just because you dont make the money you WISH you made, doesnt justify all your silliness about how we need a communist revolution in America bc there was slavery before :roll:

[FourthTenor]

Maybe because its shows that slavery is a longstanding human institution rather than a function of a political ideology that you happen not to like.


This way of putting it also works.

[insight]

Muslim slave trade predates it by THOUSANDS of years lmao. Same with Egyptian slavery and many other ancient civilizations.
Your talking apples and oranges. Enslavement of a certain race or for economic gain is different from involuntary servitude imposed on criminals or prisoners of war . Trans Atlantic Slave trade was the backbone of the US economy. In 1850, 80% of American exports were the product of slave labor. In fact slave holders attempted to justify their immorality by claiming Africans were sub-human , closer to apes than modern man. Arab, and Egyptian slave trade did not involve dehumanization.

[FourthTenor]

Your talking apples and oranges. Enslavement of a certain race or for economic gain is different from involuntary servitude imposed on criminals or prisoners of war . Trans Atlantic Slave trade was the backbone of the US economy. In 1850, 80% of American exports were the product of slave labor. In fact slave holders attempted to justify their immorality by claiming Africans were sub-human , closer to apes than modern man. Arab, and Egyptian slave trade did not involve dehumanization.


First bolded:

And black Americans today are beneficiaries. Do you know what the economy looks like in the Central African Republic? It is one of the harshest places on the planet.

People in Africa are clawing tooth and nail to get to the western world. They WISH they had the ‘privilege’ today of having had enslaved ancestors.

Everyone in America today is benefiting from the realities of the past. Concocting a sympathy narrative to get a hand out you havent earned is sad.

Limp wristed white guys trying to exploit the history of slavery because they cant compete in today’s free market is even worse.



Second bolded:

Nevermind, I see youre trolling.

[Clippersfan86]

Your talking apples and oranges. Enslavement of a certain race or for economic gain is different from involuntary servitude imposed on criminals or prisoners of war . Trans Atlantic Slave trade was the backbone of the US economy. In 1850, 80% of American exports were the product of slave labor. In fact slave holders attempted to justify their immorality by claiming Africans were sub-human , closer to apes than modern man. Arab, and Egyptian slave trade did not involve dehumanization.

Woah. Welp. I guess now I need to study humane slavery vs inhumane.

[insidious301]

I don't talk politics on this forum, but the sheer ignorance from "peroantic" and "insight" is almost illogical. But that is probably because I actually have some knowledge on world history. What is crazy is they're not the only ones on ISH, in this country or the world. Not even freaking close. Too many fools with an opinion.

[insight]

First bolded:

And black Americans today are beneficiaries. Do you know what the economy looks like in the Central African Republic? It is one of the harshest places on the planet.

People in Africa are clawing tooth and nail to get to the western world. They WISH they had the ‘privilege’ today of having had enslaved ancestors.

Everyone in America today is benefiting from the realities of the past. Concocting a sympathy narrative to get a hand out you havent earned is sad.

Limp wristed white guys trying to exploit the history of slavery because they cant compete in todayÂ’s free market is even worse.



Second bolded:

Nevermind, I see youre trolling.

African which original name is Alkebulan holds about 30% of the world mineral resources, you know Gold and Diamonds. These resources were stolen and during the British Colonization of what the Europeans called Africa.
America's market has never been a free market, that is a myth to propagated by politicians and think tanks and embraced by ignorant. Your naive if you think everyone benefits in America the top 1% own 40% of the countries wealth the bottom 90% own about 25% of the countries wealth. Did you know banks have received 4.6 TRILLION dollars in bailout money from 2008 financial collapse. The free market you speak of is a HOAX! While you are complaining about Black Lives Matter on the back of a Jersey their robbing American taxpayers on the regular.

[FourthTenor]

African which original name is Alkebulan holds about 30% of the world mineral resources, you know Gold and Diamonds. These resources were stolen and during the British Colonization of what the Europeans called Africa.
America's market has never been a free market, that is a myth to propagated by politicians and think tanks and embraced by ignorant. Your naive if you think everyone benefits in America the top 1% own 40% of the countries wealth the bottom 90% own about 25% of the countries wealth. Did you know banks have received 4.6 TRILLION dollars in bailout money from 2008 financial collapse. The free market you speak of is a HOAX! While you are complaining about Black Lives Matter on the back of a Jersey their robbing American taxpayers on the regular.


Actually I’m one of the people who complains more often about the issues you described (some of them anyway) than about words on the back of jerseys.

However they arent NBA issues so I dont post about them in the NBA forum.

[insight]

I don't talk politics on this forum, but the sheer ignorance from "peroantic" and "insight" is almost illogical. But that is probably because I actually have some knowledge on world history. What is crazy is they're not the only ones on ISH, in this country or the world. Not even freaking close. Too many fools with an opinion.
I love how you chose to throw around insults instead of posting a counter argument with substance. Just cause my post fly over your head doesn't mean their illogical.

[insight]

Actually I’m one of the people who complains more often about the issues you described (some of them anyway) than about words on the back of jerseys.

However they arent NBA issues so I dont post about them in the NBA forum.

Well then we agree that the wealth disparity and corporate welfare are problems that affect all Americans.
I personally don't think the statements on jerseys add much value but think it's important that we all engage in respectful conversations about these sensitive topics. If we can mend the racial issues that plague this country, we can effectively attack the entities that are leaching on the working class and destroying the true power of a free market.

[FourthTenor]

Well then we agree that the wealth disparity and corporate welfare are problems that affect all Americans.
I personally don't think the statements on jerseys add much value but think it's important that we all engage in respectful conversations about these sensitive topics. If we can mend the racial issues that plague this country, we can effectively attack the entities that are leaching on the working class and destroying the true power of a free market.


What racial issues need to be mended? The data Ive seen suggests that in recent years, blacks do not proportionately encounter lethal force by the police more oftej than whites. That seems to be a myth perpetuated by the media and by democrats, who are both controlled by the wealthy interests you speak of, in order to assert the division youve bemoaned.

The irony is that all these Marxists who keep lecturing everyone else on how class is the problem and not identity, are the actual ones who keep focusing on race and gender etc. Just as the wealthy interests they ‘oppose’ want them to do. Apparently the rank and file marxist foot soldier is so near sighted he cant see that a movement called “Black Lives Matter” is a contradiction to his own ideology’s most basic tenet.

The people soap boxing everyone else about the identity trap are the ones caught in the trap :facepalm

[insight]

What racial issues need to be mended? The data Ive seen suggests that in recent years, blacks do not proportionately encounter lethal force by the police more oftej than whites. That seems to be a myth perpetuated by the media and by democrats, who are both controlled by the wealthy interests you speak of, in order to assert the division youve bemoaned.

The irony is that all these Marxists who keep lecturing everyone else on how class is the problem and not identity, are the actual ones who keep focusing on race and gender etc. Just as the wealthy interests they ‘oppose’ want them to do. Apparently the rank and file marxist foot soldier is so near sighted he cant see that a movement called “Black Lives Matter” is a contradiction to his own ideology’s most basic tenet.

The people soap boxing everyone else about the identity trap are the ones caught in the trap :facepalm
Not sure what statistics you are referring to because all the statistical data I have seen states the exact opposite. In fact historically blacks are about 2.5 times more likely than whites to be killed by cops. Furthermore the vast majority of whites killed by cops have weapons where only 15% of blacks are found to be armed. If you read The Color Of Money you would understand how much needs to be mended but if we can't agree black are disproportionately target by police there is no need going down that rabbit hole.

[GOBB]

I dont get why blacks stigmatize being an uncle tom. You woild think you want to be a grant hill or chris webber or some tupac or biggie type

You sound dumb as hell. When was grant hill and Chris Webber labeled as coons?

[Whoah10115]

You sound dumb as hell. When was grant hill and Chris Webber labeled as coons?

Lol ain't nothing better than someone who's met four black people in life and got the inside scoop on it all.

[rmt]

None of these things are either black or white (never heard about children raised by collective community tbh). Regardless where the majority of black people stand on some issues, there is no doubt that capitalism is fostering racism through indirect paths. Power structures manifest themselves in many ways, so understanding this is the first step to fighting it.

Again, would have been ok if the guy said Im pro capitalism, so I don't support BLM. Fair, legit. But hiding behind meaningless bible cliches just shows what is the role of religion today - to help keep the current system in place.

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

[ralph_i_el]

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

This sounds like free community child care co-ops, which is probably a good idea. The way our economy is set up, it's very hard to provide for a child and a stay at home parent with only one person working. This means that moms have to work, and buy childcare (which is extremely expensive). This means the only people who can actually afford to have kids either are rich, or get free childcare from their family or church. This leads to lots of neglected kids, who grow up ****ed up.

My mom was able to quit her high paying programming job when I was born, because my dad made a lot of money. This means I got direct childcare from someone that actually cared about me. By the time I hit kindergarten, I was multiple grade levels ahead of my peers already. These advantages are the way that social status is passed down through generations.

[ralph_i_el]

Players standing for the pledge make it clear that the players who are kneeling are doing it willingly. I think that's why Pop stood. He knew his anti-racist credentials are impeccable, and that by standing he was increasing the impact of the players who knelt.

[imdaman99]

The NBA needs to apologize to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf. It's been a long time coming.

[ArbitraryWater]

You sound dumb as hell. When was grant hill and Chris Webber labeled as coons?

*when wuz

[FourthTenor]

This sounds like free community child care co-ops, which is probably a good idea. The way our economy is set up, it's very hard to provide for a child and a stay at home parent with only one person working. This means that moms have to work, and buy childcare (which is extremely expensive). This means the only people who can actually afford to have kids either are rich, or get free childcare from their family or church. This leads to lots of neglected kids, who grow up ****ed up.

My mom was able to quit her high paying programming job when I was born, because my dad made a lot of money. This means I got direct childcare from someone that actually cared about me. By the time I hit kindergarten, I was multiple grade levels ahead of my peers already. These advantages are the way that social status is passed down through generations.

With two parents working it shouldnt be hard to afford child care. And if the family prefers a mom to stay home with the kids, they can live modestly and have the father put in the time necessary to provide for it. Both options have been commonplace in America for a long time.

The issue is these people dont want to give families the choice. They want everyone to eventually be required to do it their way.

The essence of communism.

Youre a sick freak for supporting it tbh.

[insight]

With two parents working it shouldnt be hard to afford child care. And if the family prefers a mom to stay home with the kids, they can live modestly and have the father put in the time necessary to provide for it. Both options have been commonplace in America for a long time.

The issue is these people dont want to give families the choice. They want everyone to eventually be required to do it their way.

The essence of communism.

Youre a sick freak for supporting it tbh.
40% of Americans could not handle a 400 dollar emergency expense with cash savings or a credit card. Wage growth has not budged in nearly 45 years and families are spending more and more of their budgets on healthcare and rent. What your talking about is a fantasy this market will never return to the 1950's.

[PeroAntic]

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/

And how exactly is this bad?

[FourthTenor]

And how exactly is this bad?

For one thing it’s a fault premise. There is no requirement. They are free to do what they want. But that’s not good enough. They want everyone else to conform.

People can make their own choices and live with their own consequences.

At the heart of the matter, this is what communists hate. Because some people will make better choices and live better lives, and they resent that.

[FourthTenor]

40% of Americans could not handle a 400 dollar emergency expense with cash savings or a credit card. Wage growth has not budged in nearly 45 years and families are spending more and more of their budgets on healthcare and rent. What your talking about is a fantasy this market will never return to the 1950's.


Immigration is the reason for this.

Denmark doesnt even have a minimum wage. Because theres no foreigners competing for work, it gives laborers much more leverage.

If youve been silent on immigration for years, you have no room - ABSOLUTELY ZERO ROOM - to portray yourself as a defender of the working class.

Full stop.

[PeroAntic]

For one thing it’s a fault premise. There is no requirement.

People can make their own choices and live with their own consequences.

At the heart of the matter, this is what communists hate. Because some people will make better choices and live better lives, and they resent that.

No, what we resent is that the vast majority of people lead shit lives even if they don't deserve it, because 'freedom of choice'. This is the biggest illusion of capitalism btw, that it offers you freedom of choice.

The fundamental difference is that collectivist ideology departs from the premise that no one gets left behind, even if hes not the smartest or made some bad/unlucky choices. Society will help you. The community will help you. In the capitalist/individualist world, if you made a bad choice or were unlucky or youre not a cutthroat 'entrepreneur', then you deserve to suffer and nobody should give a shit if you die. One is humanist, the other is antihumanist. pretty simple.

[FourthTenor]

No, what we resent is that the vast majority of people lead shit lives even if they don't deserve it, because 'freedom of choice'. This is the biggest illusion of capitalism btw, that it offers you freedom of choice.

The fundamental difference is that collectivist ideology departs from the premise that no one gets left behind, even if hes not the smartest or made some bad/unlucky choices. Society will help you. The community will help you. In the capitalist/individualist world, if you made a bad choice or were unlucky or youre not a cutthroat 'entrepreneur', then you deserve to suffer and nobody should give a shit if you die. One is humanist, the other is antihumanist. pretty simple.


Yeah, this is just nonsense weak people tell themselves to feel better.

Just because someone shitted you out of a pvssy doesnt mean youre entitled to make everyone else responsible for all your mistakes and shortcomings.

Life is competitive. Everyone in America has far more of a head start AS IT IS with the availability of food stamps, section 8 housing, utility discounts, not to mention police/fire, education, transit... even if you pay no taxes. Nobody is starving or homeless unless they choose to be.

It’s on you to take it from there.

If you cant or wont?

Thats your choice.

And yes, other people will look at you and think YOURE A LOSER.

And you can tell yourself whatever stories you want to make the pain go away. You can huddle up with other losers for support and tell yourselves youre oppressed.

But it’s your choice. Make moves or be a loser.

Welcome 2 Tha Jungle, babayyyyy

[PeroAntic]

Yeah, this is just nonsense weak people tell themselves to feel better.

Just because someone shitted you out of a pvssy doesnt mean youre entitled to make everyone else responsible for all your mistakes and shortcomings.

Life is competitive. Everyone in America has far more of a head start AS IT IS with the availability of food stamps, section 8 housing, utility discounts, not to mention police/fire, education, transit... even if you pay no taxes. Nobody is starving or homeless unless they choose to be.

It’s on you to take it from there.

If you cant or wont?

Thats your choice.

And yes, other people will look at you and think YOURE A LOSER.

And you can tell yourself whatever stories you want to make the pain go away. You can huddle up with other losers for support and tell yourselves youre oppressed.

But it’s your choice. Make moves or be a loser.

Welcome 2 Tha Jungle, babayyyyy
As I said, antihumanist. and also delusional. 'Nobody is starving or homeless unless they choose to be'. Yeah Im done here.

[insight]

Immigration is the reason for this.

Denmark doesnt even have a minimum wage. Because theres no foreigners competing for work, it gives laborers much more leverage.

If youve been silent on immigration for years, you have no room - ABSOLUTELY ZERO ROOM - to portray yourself as a defender of the working class.

Full stop.

Your politicians are lying to you. Immigration was necessary because the baby boomer generation the largest generation in American history is exiting the job market and entering retirement. Automation and Outsourcing manufacturing and corporate consolidation is what is screwing the working class. The healthcare industry became a for profit industry in the 1970's now that you have more older folks supported by fewer younger people prices are exploding. immigrants are the backbone of our Agricultural farming industry, the majority of Americans could afford to feed their families. H1 visa allow companies to pay american workers less by bringing over highly skilled immigrants temporarily this is done on a by partisan basis.
Over half of the states in the US have economies larger than Denmark. Denmark is part of the European Union, they are like the economic equivalent of the state of Tennessee.

[rmt]

And how exactly is this bad?

There are many statistics on much worse outcomes are if raised in a fatherless home: - suicide, obesity, crime, prison - the list goes on and on. Instead of encouraging fathers to live with and raise their children, they want to disrupt the nuclear family structure and promote extended families and villages that collectively care for one another, especially our children.

[FourthTenor]

There are many statistics on much worse outcomes are if raised in a fatherless home: - suicide, obesity, crime, prison - the list goes on and on. Instead of encouraging fathers to live with and raise their children, they want to disrupt the nuclear family structure and promote extended families and villages that collectively care for one another, especially our children.


Which is really for the sake of indoctrinating kids to all think the same way. Most traditional families dont begin teaching their kids about transexual identity at the age of 4.

Which is what these people want to change.

And they want to change it for EVERYONE.

[FourthTenor]

As I said, antihumanist. and also delusional. 'Nobody is starving or homeless unless they choose to be'. Yeah Im done here.


God damn right you are :crazysam:

[ralph_i_el]

Immigration is the reason for this.

Denmark doesnt even have a minimum wage. Because theres no foreigners competing for work, it gives laborers much more leverage.

If youve been silent on immigration for years, you have no room - ABSOLUTELY ZERO ROOM - to portray yourself as a defender of the working class.

Full stop.

You're full of shit. Denmark is in the EU, their workers effectively have to compete against workers in every other EU nation in the labor market.

Denmark has guaranteed welfare for people under a certain income, and universal single payer healthcare.

[ralph_i_el]

There are many statistics on much worse outcomes are if raised in a fatherless home: - suicide, obesity, crime, prison - the list goes on and on. Instead of encouraging fathers to live with and raise their children, they want to disrupt the nuclear family structure and promote extended families and villages that collectively care for one another, especially our children.

The nuclear family structure has already been disrupted by capitalism.

[FourthTenor]

You're full of shit. Denmark is in the EU, their workers effectively have to compete against workers in every other EU nation in the labor market.

Denmark has guaranteed welfare for people under a certain income, and universal single payer healthcare.

Workers in Denmark have NOT historically been competing with third world migrants for low skill labor. Do not be intellectually dishonest. Immigrants are being incrementally pushed on them NOW, because the 1% wants to keep their investments profitable in Denmark and every other developed nation, and the domestic birth rate is causing them worry. Thus theyre importing human capital.

Your issue is you want to be the nice guy, and the utopia hero. Those two things are INCOMPATIBLE. You dont achieve higher standards by telling people that everyone can be included no matter what, oh and by the way, nobody even has to be productive if they dont want to!

You dont hire a coach who never calls out players mistakes
You dont hire a manager who accepts constant tardiness
You dont hire a teacher who wont correct wrong answers
You dont hire a conductor who’s okay with the wrong notes

Results require honesty and discipline and sometimes a “get it right or you dont pass” mentality.

You arent that guy. You dont quite have the brains and you dont quite have the balls. You want to convince yourself either youve got em or you dont need em, but neither is true.

Your role is to push fairytales that suggest none of that stuff is really important. Cuz liek if the stupid corporations would just give all of us teh monies and also to the immigrants too and just let us sit in our damn drum circle!!!!!!!! Everything would be perfect but they just wont let us do it!!!!! :rant


You want to be the hero without doing any work or making any sacrifice, probably bc you dont have much else to do with yourself right now, so you want something easy to do pass the time and make yourself look and feel smart, but you dont really wanna do anything too demanding that you arent really built for.

Communism cheerleader is perfect for you. Glad you found your niche.

[ralph_i_el]

Keep arguing with the strawman you built. I have better things to do than to go back and forth with someone this agressively retarded.

[FourthTenor]

Keep arguing with the strawman you built. I have better things to do than to go back and forth with someone this agressively retarded.


You ARE a strawman :milton

[rmt]

The nuclear family structure has already been disrupted by capitalism.

You think that the nuclear family structure - particularly black fatherless homes - is caused by capitalism? 65% of Black children live in single parent family compared to 15% Asian and 24% White. It ain't capitalism - it's cultural.

https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race#detailed/1/any/false/37,871,870,573,869,36,868,867,133,38/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431

[IGOTGAME]

Yeah, this is just nonsense weak people tell themselves to feel better.

Just because someone shitted you out of a pvssy doesnt mean youre entitled to make everyone else responsible for all your mistakes and shortcomings.

Life is competitive. Everyone in America has far more of a head start AS IT IS with the availability of food stamps, section 8 housing, utility discounts, not to mention police/fire, education, transit... even if you pay no taxes. Nobody is starving or homeless unless they choose to be.

It’s on you to take it from there.

If you cant or wont?

Thats your choice.

And yes, other people will look at you and think YOURE A LOSER.

And you can tell yourself whatever stories you want to make the pain go away. You can huddle up with other losers for support and tell yourselves youre oppressed.

But it’s your choice. Make moves or be a loser.

Welcome 2 Tha Jungle, babayyyyy

You sound like a child. Grow up.

[DoctorP]

Prob really couldnt kneel because he had a bum knee.

[Lebron23]

Prob really couldnt kneel because he had a bum knee.

Good theory

[ralph_i_el]

You think that the nuclear family structure - particularly black fatherless homes - is caused by capitalism? 65% of Black children live in single parent family compared to 15% Asian and 24% White. It ain't capitalism - it's cultural.

https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race#detailed/1/any/false/37,871,870,573,869,36,868,867,133,38/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431

Lack of ability to financially care for your family is the #1 reason families split up. Add mass incarceration to that and boom, there you go. Now it's normalized in the community.

[DoctorP]

Good theory

Thank you.

[MaxPlayer]

Lack of ability to financially care for your family is the #1 reason families split up. Add mass incarceration to that and boom, there you go. Now it's normalized in the community.

Plus, who needs a man around when the government will just pay for everything?

[ralph_i_el]

Plus, who needs a man around when the government will just pay for everything?

You ever spent any time around a single mother family on government assistance?

[PeroAntic]

Prob really couldnt kneel because he had a bum knee.

Socialist Jesus gave him the bum knee.