Thought the Raptors would be worse this season.

[Marchesk]

This is 94 Bulls and then some.

[insidehoops]

The Raptors winning percentage last regular season was .707, en route to winning the NBA championship.

Then they lost Kawhi Leonard in free agency.

Their winning percentage this season after beating the Lakers tonight is now .723.

[Marchesk]

What's the Clippers winning percentage and head to head record against Lakers?

[Roundball_Rock]

They have proven they are a good team, that it wasn't all Kawhi (which doesn't negate Kawhi's all-time great run in the 19' PO). I can see them going as far as the ECF but hard to see them winning the chip again since a team with Siakam as the best player rarely wins a chip in NBA history.

They have a strong foundation to build on going forward, though. I wouldn't be shocked if they reclaim the crown a few years from now.

[TheCorporation]

Kawhi's whole career he has played for ultimate stacked teams. Luckiest player in the league

[Marchesk]

that it wasn't all Kawhi (which doesn't negate Kawhi's all-time great run in the 19' PO).

You could almost say it was Jordanesque.

[Roundball_Rock]

You could almost say it was Jordanesque.

Agreed.I think Kawhi is MJ-lite/the closest thing we have to MJ in today's NBA. MJ-lite is intended as a compliment--we will never have an actual MJ 2.0.

[Axe]

To put it short, they still have the heart of a true champion. :applause:

[fourkicks44]

Last season the Raptors went 17-5 without Kawhi

:confusedshrug:

[k0kakw0rld]

They have proven they are a good team, that it wasn't all Kawhi (which doesn't negate Kawhi's all-time great run in the 19' PO). I can see them going as far as the ECF but hard to see them winning the chip again since a team with Siakam as the best player rarely wins a chip in NBA history.

They have a strong foundation to build on going forward, though. I wouldn't be shocked if they reclaim the crown a few years from now.
We got the best coach and the best bench in the NBA. WHY ARE Y'ALL SURPRISED. WE TOLD Y'ALL

[Roundball_Rock]

We got the best coach and the best bench in the NBA. WHY ARE Y'ALL SURPRISED. WE TOLD Y'ALL

You lose arguably the best player in the NBA you have to expect a drop-off. What no one knew was Siakman, FVV, Lowry would be so much better in 20' than 19'.

Remember, when KD left OKC they went from Game 7 of the WCF against a 73 win team to a first round loss. LeBron left Miami and Cleveland and those teams went to the lottery. That's the context people looked at Kawhi leaving.

[Jay-B]

If Toronto beats the Clippers in the finals what does that do to Kawhis legacy? I think knocks him out the top 20

[Roundball_Rock]

If Toronto beats the Clippers in the finals what does that do to Kawhis legacy? I think knocks him out the top 20

Nothing. Toronto being good doesn't negate Kawhi's greatness.

[Clippersfan86]

We got the best coach and the best bench in the NBA. WHY ARE Y'ALL SURPRISED. WE TOLD Y'ALL

Definitely not the best bench SMH. Clippers bench is #1 the last few years. Somehow in the last month of the season Washington of all times had neck and neck efficiency (better on O, Clippers bench better on D). Raptors aren't even top 10 bench statistically it seems.

[NBAGOAT]

Definitely not the best bench SMH. Clippers bench is #1 the last few years. Somehow in the last month of the season Washington of all times had neck and neck efficiency (better on O, Clippers bench better on D). Raptors aren't even top 10 bench statistically it seems.

tbf he's thinking more rotation guys after your top 5. harrell and lou are bench guys but they're for most people the 3rd and 4th player on the clips and often finish games. this applies to someone like schroder too. The raptors 6th and 7th guy in their rotation is like gasol and powell who could be good starters on many teams, that's just pretty elite. The clips definitely have better depth but the 6th and 7th guys are like what morris and zubac?

[Carbine]

It's not even the playoffs yet.

Raptor fans have enjoyed regular season success for years with weak playoff results before Kawhi.

Ultimately if they get bounced in the first or second round once again it will be "the same old Raptors"

[NBAGOAT]

It's not even the playoffs yet.

Raptor fans have enjoyed regular season success for years with weak playoff results before Kawhi.

Ultimately if they get bounced in the first or second round once again it will be "the same old Raptors"

they're going be playing the magic in the 1st round. that's very unlikely. 2nd round loss is definitely possible but it'll be close whether it's boston, miami, or philly, Their team is better than it was pre kawhi

[Clippersfan86]

they're going be playing the magic in the 1st round. that's very unlikely. 2nd round loss is definitely possible but it'll be close whether it's boston, miami, or philly, Their team is better than it was pre kawhi

I think they will roast the Sixers and Miami TBH. I believe they are just mentally tougher now. I think the only hope on stopping them H2H is Boston or Milwaukee.

[Roundball_Rock]

They lost Kawhi without getting anyone close to him to replace him. It's logical they take a step back. What is impressive is how small that likely will be.

When OKC lost Durant, despite adding Oladipo, Paul George, Carmelo in the ensuing years while having MVP Westbrook they haven't gotten out the first round since KD left. Toronto didn't add anyone close to these type players.

Miami added Deng, Whiteside, Dragic when LeBron left. Lotteryville. We can go down the historical list. There is a reason Toronto is getting props.

[NBAGOAT]

I think they will roast the Sixers and Miami TBH. I believe they are just mentally tougher now. I think the only hope on stopping them H2H is Boston or Milwaukee.

yea was giving him benefit of the doubt but I agree on Miami. I still have a little faith in philly but gasol is also the embiid stopper and the raptors defense would have an easy time with the sixers lack of shooting

[Clippersfan86]

yea was giving him benefit of the doubt but I agree on Miami. I still have a little faith in philly but gasol is also the embiid stopper and the raptors defense would have an easy time with the sixers lack of shooting

Raptors are the Batman of the NBA. So well coached and versatile that if they have good prep time for an opponent, I think they can slow anyone down.

[Jay-B]

Nothing. Toronto being good doesn't negate Kawhi's greatness.

Really? I think it would absolutely tarnish last years ring for him

[k0kakw0rld]

It's not even the playoffs yet.

Raptor fans have enjoyed regular season success for years with weak playoff results before Kawhi.

Ultimately if they get bounced in the first or second round once again it will be "the same old Raptors"
Reaching the ECF is weak now? Lmaooo

Most teams can't even reach the playoffs. We were more than fine before and we will continue to be fine with more playoffs success.

[ImKobe]

I see them going back to the ECF to play the Bucks. Magic in the first round? Easy win. Sixers/Celtics in the 2nd? Will be a close series, but I see them winning with their superior shooting & defense. Bucks will beat them in the ECF this time though, Kawhi's defense will be sorely missed in that series.

[Roundball_Rock]

Reaching the ECF is weak now? Lmaooo

Most teams can't even reach the playoffs. We were more than fine before and we will continue to be fine with more playoffs success.

I keep seeing that type of commentary. The degree of difficulty is ignored. They lost arguably the best player in the NBA at his peak with no real replacement for him (it isn't as if they brought in an all-star SF to fill the Kawhi spot) and somehow if they don't win the chip again they are fraudulent--which implies Kawhi was irrelevant and Kawhi or Anunoby, no difference. It also ignores that past success was with DeRozan--who they shipped to get Kawhi.

Only one East team will make the finals, only two will make the ECF. That doesn't mean every other team in the conference sucked.

The Raptors also were robbed of the work they did to get the 2 seed with the bubble.

It always is a one way street: if the Raptors don't win, it is charged to the Raptors being a fraud. If Kawhi doesn't win without the Raptors, it doesn't mean anything somehow.


Really? I think it would absolutely tarnish last years ring for him

I can see people arguing that but it doesn't make sense since we know Kawhi was vital to the 19' run. It just silences the "Kawhi was a one man team" talk we heard last summer. Plus, even if those arguments are made they likely will fade over time (especially since Kawhi had success before Toronto and will have success after Toronto).

The Oilers won in their second year without Gretzky, the 49'ers won a few years after Montana left, etc. No one says that diminishes them in any way. It just stops the "X carried the team" stuff. We have seen it with Brady as well, which is odd since they went 10-5 when he missed 15 games and 3-1 when he was suspended. If the Patriots keep rolling this year (assuming we have a season) that will silence the last of that talk.

[Tobio-Star]

Last season the Raptors went 17-5 without Kawhi

:confusedshrug:

Proof that Kawhi didnt carry shit. If anything his overrated ass got carried by Lowry and Fred VanVleet

[imdaman99]

Raps are extremely well-coached and just have the Lakers number lately. I'm pretty sure it's like 10+ games in a row they won. Lakers were bad for the most part but the last 2 years they weren't and Raps still gettin in dat azz.

[Tobio-Star]

Raps are extremely well-coached and just have the Lakers number lately. I'm pretty sure it's like 10+ games in a row they won. Lakers were bad for the most part but the last 2 years they weren't and Raps still gettin in dat azz.

I could definitely see a Lakers vs Raptors finals. Their defense puts them over the Bucks imo.

Lakers in 6 or 5

[Rudeboy3]

The raptors are a try-hard team, look at the league mpg leaders and raptors players litter the top 10. They're throwing around crazy schemes that are only utilized in the playoffs, during the regular season. They are trying hard af and when the postseason starts and every other team ratchets up the intensity, they won't be able to match it because they've been playing at a playoff intensity from day 1. They'll be exposed by the second round, they don't have the talent. All that cute coaching shit gets thrown out the window the second the second round starts, if you don't have a superstar, you aren't winning shit.

I mean they had a better winning percentage last season without kawhi, than with him during the regular season. But the second they playoff starts, they needed kawhi badly. Raptors have just gone back to what they were with demar, a team that tries really really hard in the regular season and gets exposed in the playoffs.

[Tobio-Star]

The raptors are a try-hard team, look at the league mpg leaders and raptors players litter the top 10. They're throwing around crazy schemes that are only utilized in the playoffs, during the regular season. They are trying hard af and when the postseason starts and every other team ratchets up the intensity, they won't be able to match it because they've been playing at a playoff intensity from day 1. They'll be exposed by the second round, they don't have the talent. All that cute coaching shit gets thrown out the window the second the second round starts, if you don't have a superstar, you aren't winning shit.

I mean they had a better winning percentage last season without kawhi, than with him during the regular season. But the second they playoff starts, they needed kawhi badly. Raptors have just gone back to what they were with demar, a team that tries really really hard in the regular season and gets exposed in the playoffs.

I absolutely disagree. The team with Demar was just a joke. They are clearly way better especially defensively.

Also Siakam may not be a superstar but he is close to that level. Kawhi's ball-hogging simply overshadowed his potential