Underrated part of John Stockton's game...

[Reggie43]

Is his off ball movement. Always at the right place and at the right time whether cutting in for a layup or freeing himself up using screens for the jumper. Willing to sacrifice his body by providing hard physical screens against anyone just to give his teammates an advantage. He might be labeled as dirty because of all the grabbing, holding, cheapshots etc. on both ends but that is him trying to gain an edge at any cost just to help his team win.


https://youtu.be/cw4UAk_NbkU

All off one Finals game past his prime. Regardless of how you view/rank Stockton this has to be impressive to most of you.

[TheCorporation]

What about his top 10 worst #2 Finals ppg

He did it twice

[Roundball_Rock]

What about his top 10 worst #2 Finals ppg

He did it twice

Yeah, great player but 12 PPG in the finals (across 12 games) won't cut it. He was in single digits in the 96' WCF too the year before.

It is funny to see all these people harp on scoring and then praise perhaps the worst top 50 AT HOF scorer.

If he wanted to help his team win he needed to take some shots that weren't wide open J's or layups. Being a legitimate scoring threat matters. If teams know you won't shoot unless it is a cake shot, they will defend you differently.


He might be labeled as dirty

Wasn't he voted the dirtiest player at one point? :oldlol:

[Marchesk]

Doesn’t matter. He’s getting crossed bad in today’s game. Won’t even make the nba.

He was a better defender than 80% of guards in today's league.

[TheCorporation]

He was a better defender than 80% of guards in today's league.

Scoring 9 a game. The White Tony Allen

[Roundball_Rock]

Scoring 9 a game. The White Tony Allen

Who did he guard? I'm watching Game 6 of the 97' finals and it's the 4th quarter and Stockton is on Kerr, the Bulls' 7th best player. :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

You can watch the game at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWltKUDALMY&t=6353s. At 1:46:25 Stockton decides he doesn't feel like guarding anyone--he is in the paint while Kerr is in the corner 3 area--Jordan takes a fadeway and Stockton continues to spectate. :lol

[warriorfan]

An Ironman. Impressive stamina and longevity. Some people thought he drove a minivan for his kids but he would use it because it fit more women for him to bone.

[Whoah10115]

Man apart from OP it's possible none of you should even have access to NBA TV.

ESPN we'll let go.

[Reggie43]

I was expecting some of the replies but Ish is really something else.

Saw a fairly recent video that was nice enough to share and here suddenly comes a ton of overreactions by the mere mention of Stockton.

Nothing in my original post said that he was a great finals performer or that he was head and shoulders above his peers etc. Im not even sure if they bothered to read what I said or even watch the video.

[NBAGOAT]

the malone post up with that offball movement you see from the flex was definitely utah's go to play not the pnr. The offball stuff is underrated but we overrate how much of malone's buckets were spoonfed by stockton when some assists came off simple post feeds.

you saw this with deron williams too though he was more ball dominant screen and roll heavy because boozer wasnt malone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRoDi2ECVtw 1:00, 2:45, 3:07, 3:45

[Reggie43]

the malone post up with that offball movement you see from the flex was definitely utah's go to play not the pnr. The offball stuff is underrated but we overrate how much of malone's buckets were spoonfed by stockton when some assists came off simple post feeds.

you saw this with deron williams too though he was more ball dominant screen and roll heavy because boozer wasnt malone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRoDi2ECVtw 1:00, 2:45, 3:07, 3:45

Did a little research and that was the last year of Jerry Sloan coaching the Jazz in that video(2011) I also forgot that Kirilenko and Hayward played for the Jazz at the same time, last year on the Jazz for the former and the latter's rookie year.

[Whoah10115]

the malone post up with that offball movement you see from the flex was definitely utah's go to play not the pnr. The offball stuff is underrated but we overrate how much of malone's buckets were spoonfed by stockton when some assists came off simple post feeds.

you saw this with deron williams too though he was more ball dominant screen and roll heavy because boozer wasnt malone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRoDi2ECVtw 1:00, 2:45, 3:07, 3:45

That was especially true when they were going to the Finals. Credit to Malone he became a better player at 33 (no exaggeration), as Stockton dropped just slightly.

[ImKobe]

Yeah, great player but 12 PPG in the finals (across 12 games) won't cut it. He was in single digits in the 96' WCF too the year before.

It is funny to see all these people harp on scoring and then praise perhaps the worst top 50 AT HOF scorer.

If he wanted to help his team win he needed to take some shots that weren't wide open J's or layups. Being a legitimate scoring threat matters. If teams know you won't shoot unless it is a cake shot, they will defend you differently.



Wasn't he voted the dirtiest player at one point? :oldlol:

Maybe because no one ever argued Stockton to be a great scorer? Yet, he was a very good scorer in his role and averaged 15/4/9/2 on 62%TS in the Finals at age 34 and is one of the 5 greatest passers in league history. 9 straight seasons of leading the league in assists & 15 seasons of leading the league in AST%.

Stockton was twice the playmaker compared to Pippin and had 16 straight seasons of 21+ PER & +.174 WS/48. Shame Sloan's system didn't encourage him to shoot more 3s because he legitimately could have been a 20 ppg 60%TS scorer in his best years, he led the league in TS% 3 times as a point guard. From age 25-40 (didn't start in his first 2 seasons), he averaged 22.5 PER 61.3%TS .217 WS/48 & 7.3 BPM. Insanely consistent and efficient.

You give him shit for his '98 Finals, but he was playing on limited minutes that season (first time he missed significant amount of games) & all Playofs, he only averaged 32 mpg in the Finals.

[Xiao Yao You]

Don't think Sloan's offense had much to do with Stockton not shooting more. He could take over games at will it seemed but he was unselfish to a fault. His biggest weakness. Doubt it would have changed much in any system. Don't think his game really dropped off either. They played him less minutes after his incredible recover from knee surgery.

[NBAGOAT]

Don't think Sloan's offense had much to do with Stockton not shooting more. He could take over games at will it seemed but he was unselfish to a fault. His biggest weakness. Doubt it would have changed much in any system. Don't think his game really dropped off either. They played him less minutes after his incredible recover from knee surgery.

A point guard may be a bit capped by Sloan’s system but can still put up numbers so I agree, there enough screen and roll action. we saw deron put up 20ppg in the same system.

You also get some easy assists off post ups, cuts and shooters coming off screens you get less of in other systems. Deron fell off from 10apg to 8 in bkn though he likely handled the ball more.

[Roundball_Rock]

A point guard may be a bit capped by Sloan’s system but can still put up numbers so I agree, there enough screen and roll action. we saw deron put up 20ppg in the same system.


Exactly. Stockton simply didn't have the capability to score more combined with his conservatism. If you are only taking wide open shots or lay ups, you aren't going to score 20+ regularly since how many of those type of shots would you get per game? The Sloan system generated video game assist numbers but the team needed more scoring but Stockton didn't have the capability offer that (Williams did, but Williams wasn't the passer Stockton was and Malone>>>>Boozer). That is why they always had J. Malone and Hornacek around to (in theory) give them a viable second scorer. Stockton couldn't be that guy like other elite PG's of that era like Hardaway, Price, Johnson, Isiah, Magic, Payton, etc. There is no world where Stockton would be a top 10 scorer like Deron was at one point.

His last 30+ playoff game was in 89'.

[Reggie43]

https://youtu.be/W25t7wXLVfw

15 seconds in the video Stockton tries to set a screen against Robinson, gets tangled and pushes him down. Dude was tough as nails and never cared if he was up against players twice his size, always willing to sacrifice his body just to help the team win.

[Reggie43]

Another underrated part of his game is his type of physicality, the cheapshots, elbows, illegal screens etc. doing whatever it takes to win. Players hated that but still respected the hell out of him because of his blue collar approach to basketball, his tenacity and toughness etc.

[tpols]

https://youtu.be/W25t7wXLVfw

15 seconds in the video Stockton tries to set a screen against Robinson, gets tangled and pushes him down. Dude was tough as nails and never cared if he was up against players twice his size, always willing to sacrifice his body just to help the team win.

Damn... Karl Malone destroyed rodman in that series.