Can Kawhi surpass Lebron on the all time rankings?

[ZenMaster7210]

I mean another ring and a finals MVP for the ****ing Clippers!

3 titles 3 Finals MVP with 3 different teams. Maybe he needs a regular season MVP. What do you think?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

His prime just needs to drag out until his mid 30s and we can have the discussion. Time will tell.

[Roundball_Rock]

Possible but unlikely--I doubt he will have the longevity required after his late start as a star but as HBK said if his prime goes well into his 30's and he keeps winning and dominating on both ends of the floor it is possible. If he gets to LeBron that means he will be in the GOAT conversation. I think Kawhi likely will finish as borderline top 10 or in the Malone/Barkley/Isiah type end of top 20 tier--but we watch the games for a reason so let's see how it unfolds.

[imdaman99]

Maybe if he wins 2-3 more rings. But not likely.

[Ghost1]

hell naw

[dreamshake]

He already has.

[Smoke117]

His prime just needs to drag out until his mid 30s and we can have the discussion. Time will tell.

It won't. He's fragile as it is at 28.

[Manny98]

With 0 regular season MVPs :yaohappy:

Has he even hit 10'000 career points yet, he's not close to even making the top 10 let alone surpassing a consensus top 3 GOAT in LeBron :facepalm

[HBK_Kliq_2]

It won't. He's fragile as it is at 28.

Career high in points rebounds assists

[Smoke117]

Career high in points rebounds assists

While having to rest a quarter of the season. I doubt that is going to change going forward.

[tpols]

If he kicks his ass again this year, the longevity argument isn't going to matter. When Kawhi team hops, the team actually fulfills it's dynasty potential.

[SATAN]

Most over rated, uninteresting, awkward player I've ever seen, not that he is bad obviously. ESPN and co comparing him to Jordan was an extremely desperate attempt at creating the new face of the league. Still, not many people are that interested in him.

"The fun guy". Remember when this bs started? Good job sports media. :facepalm

[bigbrownschaub]

idk b, kwhys not as big of a draw as lebron. doesnt sell the tickets.

[Phoenix]

Hes not gonna have the career numbers, either averages or accumulated, or the accolades( all-nba) due to a slow bulld to what he is now. Actually it's not even that slow a build, it took him like 4-5 years to get to All-NBA level. But missing that one year in 2018 and then all the load management, he may never win MVP( just dont see him playing enough games). His case would have to be really different from some of the other candidates. Perhaps peak play and if he ends up reeling off 4-5 championships as the best player would be the arguments but.....I still dont think his overall body of work will eclipse guys at the very top, but he could challenge for like a top 10 spot but the next 4 years will determine alot. I don't think Kawhis gonna stick around much beyond 35 with his injury issues.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

While having to rest a quarter of the season. I doubt that is going to change going forward.

He only sat out about 20% of the season. 58/73 games played. He still played more then Paul George did.

2019 reg season he only missed about 5 games less then Lowry?

Relative to his co star, he's carrying an equal or bigger load in regular season. While going god mode in playoffs. Nothing wrong with this formula if he continues. Kawhi also relies on his skill and physical strength and not his athleticism, which also means he has a much better chance at great longevity as well.

[Roundball_Rock]

No MVP's, low career totals (relative to GOAT candidates) will hurt him. His path to GOAT is basically becoming the Russell or Jordan of his era where he is the best player on an all-time great dynasty and that couples with his all-around dominance to give him a case.

I think it is unlikely but that is his scenario. More likely is he finishes somewhere between 10th ish or 20th ish, depending on how things shake out.

[Lebron23]

Nope. He won't even surpass your favorite player Kobe unless he wins multiple mvp, play more games instead of load managing. And he also lacks the statistical dominance of LeBron.

[Tobio-Star]

He isn't even the best player on his team and looks like he is almost done at 29 yrs old

[Docs Orders]

Yes, but he would need to play 25-30 seasons at his current pace to match LeBrons career numbers

[3ball]

Kawhi will be #11 all-time in my rankings if he wins his 3rd fmvp this year and reaches 3-1* in the Finals

My rankings will be MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, Russell, Kobe, Magic, Hakeem, Duncan, Kawhi, Lebron, Oscar, Dr. J, KD, Elgin, Isiah, Wade, Malone, Barkley, Moses, Ewing, Garnett, Dirk, West, Robinson, McAdoo

Something like that..

[Lebron23]

Kawhi will be #11 all-time in my rankings if he wins his 3rd fmvp this year and reaches 3-1* in the Finals

My rankings will be MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, Russell, Kobe, Magic, Hakeem, Duncan, Kawhi, Lebron, Oscar, Dr. J, KD, Elgin, Isiah, Wade, Malone, Barkley, Moses, Ewing, Dirk, West, Robinson, McAdoo, Garnett,

Something like that..

Where would you rank lebron if he wins his 4th finals mvp??

[Tobio-Star]

Its kinda funny the double standard when it comes to LeBron.

Kawhi only has to win 3 rings and one mvp to surpass LeBron (when LeBron has the same amount of ring and is better in every single category) but LeBron has to win 7 rings to surpass Jordan even though he is better everywhere else :oldlol:

[Carbine]

I don't think people are saying if he wins this year he is equal to or better than LeBron all-time.

It makes the idea somewhat plausible though depending on how his 30's go, but he has to win. Preferably going through LeBron as well.

[3ball]

Where would you rank lebron if he wins his 4th finals mvp??

It's tough to grade Lebron's resume because "the decision" and "player empowerment" is code for "manufacture your resume" and lebron started this trend..

It's fact that the "Finals streak" or titles didn't occur until his after his "decision" to start colluding/cheating in 2011.

Twice he landed on teams favored to win the title in the Year 1 pre-season and pre-playoffs (11', 15') - that's the easiest path possible... and another time in year 2 (2020).

So his ring count is more influenced by landing on the league favorite (3 times), than anyone in history.

So due to his team-hopping onto the league favorite three times, I don't rate his FMVP's as highly as other who achieved favorite status by melding their game with teammates.

So i would put Lebron at #11 (above kawhi)

[FromDowntown]

6,911

LeBar has been set. Good luck Kawhi

[Vino24]

Depends if you think Kawhi can be 2nd on the goat list

[insidious301]

Kawhi would need more playoff runs similar to last year. And on the level of LeBron's dominance in the eastern conference. Everyone knows LeBron is basically as good as anyone who ever played, so Kawhi needs years to make up that ground.

[r0drig0lac]

probably, 6 rings and 5 FMVPS would do it, mainly because if he got this absurd amount of titles and prizes he would undoubtedly have the status of best player of his generation. He is already the second best active player (after Lebron), so if he has the ability to win that hypothetical number of titles as the best player on the team, no one will doubt his greatness on an all-time list.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi will be #11 all-time in my rankings if he wins his 3rd fmvp this year and reaches 3-1* in the Finals

My rankings will be MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, Russell, Kobe, Magic, Hakeem, Duncan, Kawhi, Lebron, Oscar, Dr. J, KD, Elgin, Isiah, Wade, Malone, Barkley, Moses, Ewing, Garnett, Dirk, West, Robinson, McAdoo

Something like that..

Reasonable list. That's who I want to see you comparing Jordan with, guys in your top 5. Enough with all the attention on your 12th GOAT lebron, although i know he's very popular.

[3ball]

Do FMVP's count if you were a net negative, aka your team lost with you on the floor for the series? (Lebron 13' Finals)

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Do FMVP's count if you were a net negative, aka your team lost with you on the floor for the series? (Lebron 13' Finals)

R. Allen | C. Andersen | S. Battier | N. Cole are +28.4 in 131 minutes

R. Allen | C. Andersen | N. Cole | L. James are +23.9 in 138 minutes

Based on lineup data, ray Allen should of been playoff mvp and finals MVP. Allen played better next to Battier then he did with LeBron. Allen is also in the 4 best lineups. And of course Allen's game 6 shot that saved LeBron.

[knicksman]

As much as you guys hate it but the moment lebron formed his superteam is the moment he quits on his career. Thats why hes still not getting that respect. Old players team up not to become GOAT but not to retire ringless. But no matter how many rings they win, their rings will never be valid in GOAT contention. Same with lebron. Do you think we will consider Pierce GOAT even if he wins 7 after they teamed up in 2008? No. Superteam rings just have no value at all

[Roundball_Rock]

Where do you get finals lineup, on/off etc. data?

Wade was net -14.5 in the 13' playoffs. Wow.

[StrongLurk]

No, he can end up top 20 though.

[kawhileonard2]

With a title this year and finals mvp yes.

[Shooter]

I can't say 100% he has no chance but it's pretty slim chance. Good luck to Kawhi though!

https://i.postimg.cc/nVGL7G5h/top-27.png
https://i.postimg.cc/rFyw9tXC/28-to-48.png

[FromDowntown]

R. Allen | C. Andersen | S. Battier | N. Cole are +28.4 in 131 minutes

R. Allen | C. Andersen | N. Cole | L. James are +23.9 in 138 minutes

Based on lineup data, ray Allen should of been playoff mvp and finals MVP. Allen played better next to Battier then he did with LeBron. Allen is also in the 4 best lineups. And of course Allen's game 6 shot that saved LeBron.

Sorry most people don't win Finals MVP with 14 ppg and being carried for 6 games, only Kawhi gets that luxury :roll:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Sorry most people don't win Finals MVP with 14 ppg and being carried for 6 games, only Kawhi gets that luxury :roll:

2014 playoffs best spurs lineups

2 man lineups: M. Ginóbili Kawhi Leonard +21.3

3 man lineups: Duncan Kawhi Leonard Manu +19.9

4 man lineups: T. Duncan M. Ginóbili Kawhi Leonard T. Parker +20.9

Looks like the senior citizens were the ones with the luxury.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kawhi's gotta play like a madman going forward.

Doubt that longevity will be in his favor, but the "load managing" wont hurt in the long haul. Without doubt in the playoffs anyway.

[GimmeThat]

due to the 'no hate' clause, nope

[ZenMaster7210]

Kawhi will be #11 all-time in my rankings if he wins his 3rd fmvp this year and reaches 3-1* in the Finals

My rankings will be MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, Russell, Kobe, Magic, Hakeem, Duncan, Kawhi, Lebron, Oscar, Dr. J, KD, Elgin, Isiah, Wade, Malone, Barkley, Moses, Ewing, Garnett, Dirk, West, Robinson, McAdoo

Something like that..

Interesting rankings.

[HylianNightmare]

Doubtful he's gotta win 3 more

[HoopsNY]

I mean another ring and a finals MVP for the ****ing Clippers!

3 titles 3 Finals MVP with 3 different teams. Maybe he needs a regular season MVP. What do you think?

It's possible, but he would really have to tick off a lot of boxes over the course of the next 5-6 years. That would include multiple championships, MVP awards, and FMVPs, including making the all-star team every single year and finishing All-NBA 1st team just about every single year.

It's a tall order and I don't think he will get there, especially when you consider his load management which all but disqualifies him from the MVP conversation.

[Lebron23]

Interesting rankings.

You are almost 40 bro. And still trolling in this forum. It won't suprise if you are Kengriffith.

[TheCorporation]

I can't say 100% he has no chance but it's pretty slim chance. Good luck to Kawhi though!

https://i.postimg.cc/nVGL7G5h/top-27.png
https://i.postimg.cc/rFyw9tXC/28-to-48.png

2.2k playoff pts dont sniff top 10 let alone top 1

/thread

[BigKAT]

I think he will need a regular season MVP.

If you look at the Consensus Top 8-9 in no particular order

Jordan - 5 MVPs
Lebron - 4 MVPs
Russell - 5 MVPs
Magic - 3 MVPs
Bird - 3 MVPs
Kobe - 1 MVP
Wilt - 4 Mvps
Shaq - 1 MVP

So, yeah

I think he needs at least 1 or 2 mvps.

I think GIANNIS have a much better chance.

But to be honest, if you're looking for someone with a chance to threaten Lebron's all-time ranking?

Look no further than Stephen Curry and Kevin Durant. They each have the hardware, championships and are the right age to keep going. Give either of them a couple more rings and maybe another MVP and suddenly it's not so far fetched to consider them Top 5.

Kawhi's incredible but to me he hasn't even passed Hakeem.

[Bronbron23]

no but he can he can put a dent in brons legacy and hurt him in the goat discussion. If he beats lebron this year and wins the title and possibly does it again next year it will all but kill brons chances at goat.

On the flip side if bron beats kawhi and wins a chip it will strengthen his case.

[Whoah10115]

Kawhi > Jordan so duh.

[Bronbron23]

Kawhi > Jordan so duh.

damn probably one of the worst takes ever

[FromDowntown]

I can't say 100% he has no chance but it's pretty slim chance. Good luck to Kawhi though!

https://i.postimg.cc/nVGL7G5h/top-27.png
https://i.postimg.cc/rFyw9tXC/28-to-48.png

:lol

Shooter roasting kids

[Whoah10115]

damn probably one of the worst takes ever

HBK said it so then it must be true.

[IMObjective]

Nope, wouldn't mind if he did though.

[AirBonner]

Will Kawhi ever have a 2016 finals? No. He won’t.

[SouBeachTalents]

I think he will need a regular season MVP.

If you look at the Consensus Top 8-9 in no particular order

Jordan - 5 MVPs
Lebron - 4 MVPs
Russell - 5 MVPs
Magic - 3 MVPs
Bird - 3 MVPs
Kobe - 1 MVP
Wilt - 4 Mvps
Shaq - 1 MVP

So, yeah

I think he needs at least 1 or 2 mvps.

I think GIANNIS have a much better chance.

But to be honest, if you're looking for someone with a chance to threaten Lebron's all-time ranking?

Look no further than Stephen Curry and Kevin Durant. They each have the hardware, championships and are the right age to keep going. Give either of them a couple more rings and maybe another MVP and suddenly it's not so far fetched to consider them Top 5.

Kawhi's incredible but to me he hasn't even passed Hakeem.
It absolutely is. They're going to be 32 & 33 next season and neither has a track record for staying healthy. Forget LeBron, you seriously expect Steph or KD to surpass Bird, Magic, Duncan, Shaq etc

[Roundball_Rock]

It absolutely is. They're going to be 32 & 33 next season and neither has a track record for staying healthy. Forget LeBron, you seriously expect Steph or KD to surpass Bird, Magic, Duncan, Shaq etc

Yeah, Curry, Durant simply weren't the caliber of players of the guys you listed. They have no path to the top 5.

To be in the GOAT discussion you, by definition, need to be the greatest of your time or at least have a legit case for it. Durant, Curry are close to Kawhi, Harden than they are to LeBron.

[ZenMaster7210]

He already has.

Interesting take.

[TheCorporation]

I can't say 100% he has no chance but it's pretty slim chance. Good luck to Kawhi though!

https://i.postimg.cc/nVGL7G5h/top-27.png
https://i.postimg.cc/rFyw9tXC/28-to-48.png

He's getting closer

:roll: :roll:

[houston]

Most over rated, uninteresting, awkward player I've ever seen, not that he is bad obviously. ESPN and co comparing him to Jordan was an extremely desperate attempt at creating the new face of the league. Still, not many people are that interested in him.

"The fun guy". Remember when this bs started? Good job sports media. :facepalm



I cosign this to a degree.

[Drygon]

Will Kawhi ever have a 2016 finals? No. He won’t.

Kawhi's 2019 Finals is way more impressive.

That 73-9 GSW team had injuries on Curry, Iggy & Bogut, which casued them losing their 3-1 lead.

Also, Kyrie is much better player than any Raptors player except Kawhi himself.

[TheCorporation]

Kawhi's 2019 Finals is way more impressive.

That 73-9 GSW team had injuries on Curry, Iggy & Bogut, which casued them losing their 3-1 lead.

Also, Kyrie is much better player than any Raptors player except Kawhi himself.

:lol

2016 is the GOAT standard

Every other year is just dust in the wind my friend. Sorry if you didnt already know.

[Drygon]

:lol

2016 is the GOAT standard

Every other year is just dust in the wind my friend. Sorry if you didnt already know.

2016 has a massive asterisk with context added.

It's not on same level as Dirk's 2011 ring or Kawhi's 2019 ring.

[TheCorporation]

2016 has a massive asterisk with context added.

It's not on same level as Dirk's 2011 ring or Kawhi's 2019 ring.

Again: 2016 is the GOAT standard

Every other year is just dust in the wind my friend. Sorry if you didnt already know. You're welcome.

[Gray GOAT]

The 2016 championship is the greatest in the history of sports. The comeback of all comebacks against the most winning team of all time. The 2019 Finals are up there as the most boring, asterisk riddled Finals ever. Curry, who is already a questionable finals performer himself, and a bunch of G-leaguers.

[TheCorporation]

The 2016 championship is the greatest in the history of sports. The comeback of all comebacks against the most winning team of all time. The 2019 Finals are up there as the most boring, asterisk riddled Finals ever. Curry, who is already a questionable finals performer himself, and a bunch of G-leaguers.

Right?! How many newbies still don't know. How many more must we teach?

https://i.postimg.cc/0j6rkSHY/20200818-141141.jpg

[ZenMaster7210]

2016 has a massive asterisk with context added.

It's not on same level as Dirk's 2011 ring or Kawhi's 2019 ring.

I agree.

[kawhileonard2]

2016 has a massive asterisk with context added.

It's not on same level as Dirk's 2011 ring or Kawhi's 2019 ring.

Yep! Notice Lebron wasn't bitching about Draymond getting suspended but is when Porzingis gets ejected.

[Gohan]

This thread just shows how Kawhi is overrated. He has no chance

[SATAN]

Yep! Notice Lebron wasn't bitching about Draymond getting suspended but is when Porzingis gets ejected.

They weren't even remotely the same. :facepalm

Dumbass.

[ZenMaster7210]

Kawhi is getting ready to win yet another FMVP. 3 different teams and 2 of them were from joke franchises.

[Wally450]

2016 has a massive asterisk with context added.

It's not on same level as Dirk's 2011 ring or Kawhi's 2019 ring.

You say that, then mention Kawhi's 2019 ring when there's massive context in that ring.

[Lebron23]

You say that, then mention Kawhi's 2019 ring when there's massive context in that ring.

This. Bunch of Kobetards in this thread.

[BigKobeFan]

He already has.

he already has. he ends that nikka's soul

[red1]

Kawhi is getting ready to win yet another FMVP. 3 different teams and 2 of them were from joke franchises.

kawhi's championship teams literally win 50 games or play at a 50-win pace without him :oldlol:

[BigShotBob]

kawhi's championship teams literally win 50 games or play at a 50-win pace without him :oldlol:

Where's that 50 game ring? :lol

[red1]

You say that, then mention Kawhi's 2019 ring when there's massive context in that ring.

:oldlol:


not to mention his 2019 team went 17-5 without him and won 50 games in a shortened season the next year :oldlol:

[red1]

Where's that 50 game ring? :lol

hey man we're comparing him to the all-time GOATs right?


show me one kobe team that can come close to winning 50 games without him. :oldlol:

[deathawaitu]

If he wins with the clips this year

The general consensus will have him over LeBron

Kawhi carrying the clips, while we are witnessing LeBron becoming a third option on the lakers