2020 Western Conference: Deepest conference in NBA history

[scuzzy]

One thing from watching these guys tune up for the playoffs is obvious, noone out West is guaranteed lock even in the 1st rounds. The Vegas odds jumping by the +hundreds every hour between teams all 10 teams. I've never seen anything like that

Has anyone made any future bets on Bovada/Opening?

#1-13 deep

https://i.postimg.cc/5tjvGbKL/fgjkjtgktgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


https://i.postimg.cc/mDH9LVsr/fjytytyj.png (https://postimg.cc/njnrT4M8)





In comparison to 2009 for example, where most of the bottom half tanked bottle feed wins to #1-9. And Carmelo/Billups - BRoy/Aldridge were the biggest threat to the 65 win powerhouse Lakers


https://i.postimg.cc/mrqMWJKq/tgykitgktuyk.png (https://postimages.org/)

[Kblaze8855]

I still might go with one of those early 2000s years where the Rockets and Sonics both won like 45 games but didn’t make it because the 8th seed Twolves won about 47 or 48 give or take.

[NBAGOAT]

i like mid 2010's. Great top 3-4 in SA/GS/OKC/LAC. add on teams like mem, por, dal.

[tpols]

Welcome to the Wild Wild West, baby boy.

[LAmbruh]

1st seed

17th season

MVP

Imagine if prime LeSilverback got to molly wop on a West team his whole career. Whew lad

[Manny98]

Bloodbath...

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi facing those soft ass Mavs and Nuggets teams in the first 2 rounds. Beat the monsters Embiid and Giannis last year. So Jokic and Porzingis should be a cakewalk. Leonard will be almost yawning through this shit.

Meanwhile, LeBron gets the white hot lillard or Booker. And in 2nd round gets harden/Westbrook

Hahahah damn this bubble turned out pretty damn sweet after all.

[Axe]

Four teams fighting for the last seed in the west. That is tough but 2020 is pretty much tainted already.

[FourthTenor]

King wading nuts-deep in a pool of tiger sharks, not giving a FVCK.


This is how you GOAT :rockon:

[ArbitraryWater]

I still might go with one of those early 2000s years where the Rockets and Sonics both won like 45 games but didn’t make it because the 8th seed Twolves won about 47 or 48 give or take.

Early and late 00‘s were a joke compared to now


Right now is the deepest era ever
Mid 10‘s comes next

[red1]

giannis is the MVP but I would not be upset at all if they gave it to LeGOAT. he really carried that team this year

[NugzFan]

Kawhi facing those soft ass Mavs and Nuggets teams in the first 2 rounds. Beat the monsters Embiid and Giannis last year. So Jokic and Porzingis should be a cakewalk. Leonard will be almost yawning through this shit.

Meanwhile, LeBron gets the white hot lillard or Booker. And in 2nd round gets harden/Westbrook

Hahahah damn this bubble turned out pretty damn sweet after all.

Hahahah

[NugzFan]

One thing from watching these guys tune up for the playoffs is obvious, noone out West is guaranteed lock even in the 1st rounds. The Vegas odds jumping by the +hundreds every hour between teams all 10 teams. I've never seen anything like that

Has anyone made any future bets on Bovada/Opening?

#1-13 deep

https://i.postimg.cc/5tjvGbKL/fgjkjtgktgh.png (https://postimages.org/)


what does the 10/20/20 date refer to?

also next year is going to be insane. I dont think any of the 15 west teams will be tanking at all.

[red1]

playoffs are going to be incredible. cant wait.

[red1]

I still might go with one of those early 2000s years where the Rockets and Sonics both won like 45 games but didn’t make it because the 8th seed Twolves won about 47 or 48 give or take.


thats nuts. :oldlol:


I think you're right. the league was the most lopsided Ive ever seen it - felt like every single contender played out west.

[Gougou]

2005-2010, Spurs/Mavs/Lakers/Rockets/Jazz/Portland/Suns/Denver.

That era was so tough that even a stacked Suns team can't win a ring, they had to go against the Spurs, Kobe.

But yeah I think 2020 is very deep aswell, Denver/Mavs quite dangerous, Rockets are good aswell.

[Stanley Kobrick]

some big raptors fan is swimming in a pool of money as seen in 2019 when they had +1850 odds in August 2018 to win it all. compare that to the +750 odds the raptors had in December 2018 and finally +250 odds in june 2019 before the finals. fast forward Kawhi leaves, again raptors +5000 july/aug this preseason and now a more respectable +1000 as the season progressed. don't sleep on the raptors, someone may very well get another big payout

[kawhileonard2]

Anthony Davis was clearly the best on the team.

[ArbitraryWater]

2005-2010, Spurs/Mavs/Lakers/Rockets/Jazz/Portland/Suns/Denver.

That era was so tough that even a stacked Suns team can't win a ring, they had to go against the Spurs, Kobe.

But yeah I think 2020 is very deep aswell, Denver/Mavs quite dangerous, Rockets are good aswell.

Yikes, absolutely awful era.

2nd best team 08-10 Paul/Chandler Hornets, Melo/Billups Nuggets, these are teams that wouldnt have HCA in the 1st round nowadays.

05-07 had 3 great teams and only mediocrity after. Awful era.

[NBAGOAT]

Minn could definitely be the worst team in the West next year with towns/Russell which is a bit comical

[Overdrive]

Yikes, absolutely awful era.

2nd best team 08-10 Paul/Chandler Hornets, Melo/Billups Nuggets, these are teams that wouldnt have HCA in the 1st round nowadays.

05-07 had 3 great teams and only mediocrity after. Awful era.

Every era was like that in hindsight. How many different teams are actually contenders per conference each year? 2 or 3. The rest are pretenders, who amass high rs win #s.

[NBAGOAT]

Every era was like that in hindsight. How many different teams are actually contenders per conference each year? 2 or 3. The rest are pretenders, who amass high rs win #s.

West doesn’t even have the crazy win totals this year from the middle seeds. Hou, Den, Utah, okc are good teams but mostly not too relevant historically and only on pace for 50-53 wins pre bubble.

Unless you believe this year is so strong the west’s 3-6 would win 55+ comfortably any other year, it’s not a super standout year and I don’t really see it personally. Tbf unlike most strong west years, the east is actually pretty solid this year.

[ArbitraryWater]

Every era was like that in hindsight. How many different teams are actually contenders per conference each year? 2 or 3. The rest are pretenders, who amass high rs win #s.

Thats not what I'm refering to.

There is a huge gulp between 3 and everything after from 5-07, where as right now there are about 8-9 teams in the West which can compete and take games off of each other or keep it close..

So no, not every era is like that in hindsight.

Look at 2011 with OKC, Denver, Memphis at 8...2012 Clippers at 5, Mavs at 7.. very good teams.. it only gets better from there on.

Put the 2006 Grizzlies (#4 record), 2007 Jazz (#4 record) against the current #4, and they'd get swept. Even against the #6 and #7 they would lose handily.

Its not as simple and black and white as you would want it to be.

[ArbitraryWater]

West doesn’t even have the crazy win totals this year from the middle seeds. Hou, Den, Utah, okc are good teams but mostly not too relevant historically and only on pace for 50-53 wins pre bubble.

Unless you believe this year is so strong the west’s 3-6 would win 55+ comfortably any other year, it’s not a super standout year and I don’t really see it personally. Tbf unlike most strong west years, the east is actually pretty solid this year.

Jeezuz, the win totals are completely irrelevant compared across era's.

How does this not get through people's skull?

This is the deepest conference ever, which means 7-12 absolutely crushes 7-12 of every other conference ever.

No seed except the Lakers have a historically unusual record.

Its like people such as yourself put yourself in dumbed down mode as to not overthink too much.

Wouldnt want to hurt our heads would we.

Fcking christ I cant deal with this stupidity.

The '09 West had 7 50 win teams and the East only had 3, yet won the conference H2H..

how do you think that happened?

Jesus

[ArbitraryWater]

People looking at team records in a conference to determine conference strenght > IQ below 100 absolutely confirmed


People legit dont understand there is an equal amount of wins to go around every year, no matter how good the teams are

NBAGOAT you dont even understand that the East being far better this year than other years additionally takes away W's from West teams, yet they remain the superior conference by a good margin.

The 2020 West has 12 teams which would make the playoffs ANY other year and people can't get it through their thick unadvanced heads.

[NBAGOAT]

People looking at team records in a conference to determine conference strenght > IQ below 100 absolutely confirmed


People legit dont understand there is an equal amount of wins to go around every year, no matter how good the teams are

NBAGOAT you dont even understand that the East being far better this year than other years additionally takes away W's from West teams, yet they remain the superior conference by a good margin.

The 2020 West has 12 teams which would make the playoffs ANY other year and people can't get it through their thick unadvanced heads.

I do understand that but that happened from 2008-2009 too, and 2014-15.The east was fantastic in 2009 and decent in 2010 though was top heavy, literally only one bottom feeding team in 09. 14-15 West was very competitive though yes the 12 seed is likely worse than this years 12. That’s taking away wins.

I just think you’re overrating 3-6 in the West and the teams on the playoff fringe. No I don’t think spurs or even Suns make the playoffs every other era. I don’t think 3-6 is that special outside hou(and we ‘re not sure how great westbrook is). You’re breaking down teams by a talent cup and that has many flaws. Name value gets overvalued, offense gets overvalued, and fit gets undervalued with some recency bias kicking in.

For one of those strong 8-12 seeds por looks good now but for most of the year were giving whiteside, melo, and bazemore big minutes with not even a great 2nd guy. They just weren’t a good team most of the year. injuries excuse them and they should be good next year but injuries happen other years to promising teams and gets forgotten.

[jayfan]

If every team is at full strength, the Clips have too much. They're not losing.





* Only Paul George going full ball-hog can stop them.

[ArbitraryWater]

I do understand that but that happened from 2008-2009 too, and 2014-15.The east was fantastic in 2009 and decent in 2010 though was top heavy, literally only one bottom feeding team in 09. 14-15 West was very competitive though yes the 12 seed is likely worse than this years 12. That’s taking away wins.

I just think you’re overrating 3-6 in the West and the teams on the playoff fringe. No I don’t think spurs or even Suns make the playoffs every other era. I don’t think 3-6 is that special outside hou(and we ‘re not sure how great westbrook is). You’re breaking down teams by a talent cup and that has many flaws. Name value gets overvalued, offense gets overvalued, and fit gets undervalued with some recency bias kicking in.

For one of those strong 8-12 seeds por looks good now but for most of the year were giving whiteside, melo, and bazemore big minutes with not even a great 2nd guy. They just weren’t a good team most of the year. injuries excuse them and they should be good next year but injuries happen other years to promising teams and gets forgotten.

The Mavericks are easily the best 7th seed of all time.

Nothing is being overvalued here, you are just randomy looking for things that could downplay it while not understanding the NBA spectrum as a whole (the 3 point shot has been mastered, which leads to clowns believing defense is not played.. in reality, a lot of teams are simply liable to get bombed on).

Unless you think defenses have somehow greatly declined which there is no reason for at all, you would HAVE to agree we are in the best era/conference ever, by looking at the efficiency teams score with.

And the playoff Blazers arent the whiteside/bazemore blazers (not sure why Whiteside is even mentioned as he too is a great player and comes off the bench, he'd be a starter on most 5-8 seeded playoff teams historically that dont have an AS C).

[dankok8]

I'm with ArbitraryWater here. Blazers, Mavs, Jazz are all actually serious threats to the top seeds in the first round this year. They are bloody stacked.

[ImKobe]

The West has been stacked like this for a while, Bran stans/bandwagon Laker fans now realizing this because they didn't follow the Conference pre-2018 :kobe: .

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The Mavericks are easily the best 7th seed of all time.

Nothing is being overvalued here, you are just randomy looking for things that could downplay it while not understanding the NBA spectrum as a whole (the 3 point shot has been mastered, which leads to clowns believing defense is not played.. in reality, a lot of teams are simply liable to get bombed on).

Unless you think defenses have somehow greatly declined which there is no reason for at all, you would HAVE to agree we are in the best era/conference ever, by looking at the efficiency teams score with.

Nothing except you overrating offense.

League DRTG is up compared to those seasons, and the league already told you they're making it easier for offenses. Freedom of Movement. Go read it.


Now these teams with these guards just going and attacking, Rose and Teague, these little guards playing on catch, that's like the new athletic style of player that I think the league is going to take advantage of these rules. Speed, being able to recover and close out without using your hands? You can't touch a guy. You better be able to get down into a stance and guard it. That's hard to do." - Pacers coaches in 2020


It's still a decent product. And there are players who would be GREAT THEN just as they are now. Fact is though we see more spacing, no paint camping and hands-off defense. The numbers bare that out.

Educate yourself.

[tpols]

Yikes, absolutely awful era.



Prime...

Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Amare Stoudemire
Manu
Parker
D-Will
Pau
Marion
Artest
etc.

"Yikes."

Yup....

[RRR3]

Nothing except you overrating offense.

League DRTG is up compared to those seasons, and the league already told you they're making it easier for offenses.Freedom of Movement. Go read it.

It's still a decent product. And there are players who would be GREAT THEN just as they are now. Fact is though we see more spacing, no paint camping and hands-off defense. The numbers bare that out.

Educate yourself.


And the playoff Blazers arent the whiteside/bazemore blazers (not sure why Whiteside is even mentioned as he too is a great player and comes off the bench, he'd be a starter on most 5-8 seeded playoff teams historically that dont have an AS C).
Speaking as a Heat fan, Whiteside is trash. Don’t be fooled by his elite stats.

[ImKobe]

Prime...

Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Amare Stoudemire
Manu
Parker
D-Will
Pau
Marion
Artest
etc.

"Yikes."

Yup....

What a ****ing troll. The West has had at least two contenders + 4-6 good teams for at least 2 decades, these cats jumping on the Lebron/Lakers bandwagon are just now realizing how different the two Conferences are. '03 WC had four legitimate title contenders, the Lakers were just a 6th seed at 50 wins. We can go back as far as '95, when the 6th seed Rockets ran the table and swept the Magic in the Finals. This guy thinks that the Blazers/Suns are the best 8th seeds ever when you had a 50-win OKC squad with KD/Russ/Harden as an 8th seed in '10.

Oh, and these are the same guys who act like the #1 seed Lakers right now only have Lebron/AD + scrubs, how are they the #1 seed with a roster as bad as this one then? Let me guess, it's all about Lebron and even winning a Playoff series as the #1 seed makes him the GOAT.

[BigShotBob]

Lol @ Mavs being the "all-time best" 7th seed :roll:

Why do people who have never watched basketball before 2011 allowed to post?

[ArbitraryWater]

The West has been stacked like this for a while, Bran stans/bandwagon Laker fans now realizing this because they didn't follow the Conference pre-2018 :kobe: .

Its been good of course, but its been taken up a whole other level this year


Prime...

Tim Duncan
Kobe Bryant
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Amare Stoudemire
Manu
Parker
D-Will
Pau
Marion
Artest
etc.

"Yikes."

Yup....

If Deron Williams is 9th among your list of high caliber names, and Marion 11th, we got a problem :lol


No shit you can name some ballers.

Every era has them.

The mid 2000's were largely devoid of depth in talent though.

Same for the early 00's.

RELATIVELY.

[ArbitraryWater]

Lol @ Mavs being the "all-time best" 7th seed :roll:

Why do people who have never watched basketball before 2011 allowed to post?

Go ahead, name a better one.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm with ArbitraryWater here. Blazers, Mavs, Jazz are all actually serious threats to the top seeds in the first round this year. They are bloody stacked.

my man


Nothing except you overrating offense.

League DRTG is up compared to those seasons, and the league already told you they're making it easier for offenses. Freedom of Movement. Go read it.




It's still a decent product. And there are players who would be GREAT THEN just as they are now. Fact is though we see more spacing, no paint camping and hands-off defense. The numbers bare that out.

Educate yourself.

What does overrating offense mean?

That makes no sense.

The rules are what they are.

Its just the way it is now.

The league is a far better offensive product than it EVER has been, and thats due to the mastering and utilization of the three point shot and an influx and peak in all around basketball talent / depth.

Every single team in the association right now has 1-2 all-star level talents.

[NBAGOAT]

Speaking as a Heat fan, Whiteside is trash. Don’t be fooled by his elite stats.

yea agreed. whiteside shouldnt be starting on some non playoff teams. Not unplayable but one of the bigger statpadders in the league.

On to AW's point, yea even with freedom of movement I cant disagree with teams being a bit smarter than ever with shot selection, not fouling on defense(ignore the bubble), and finding optimal ratio of oreb/transition defense. I do think you're overplaying the offensive mastery, not likely teams are shooting 40% from 3 and some rule changes go in too(freedom of movement) though yes defenses are getting smarter too. Thibs went from defensive genius to not special in 5 years because bigs started shooting 3's well and that counters his strategy to ice pnrs.

Still you cant compare teams in a vacuum because they have the advantage of knowledge. When realgm did their goat team tourney, they made it so the more recent teams gets transported to era of the older team, rules refs and even skills. so harden wouldnt have the eurostep if he played in the 80s, kyrie would be the best ball handler for his time but would be comparable to tim hardaway when transported to 1991. at same time cant assume harden would be using modern moves and getting called for travel every other play. FYI 71 Bucks ended up beating the 17 Warriors because no 3pt line.

The question however was strength of conference not strength of league. It does not stand out compared to other years, the east is solid this year for one so how can the west more deep than ever. I named the blazers roster because that is what they had most of the year. If Utah had Boozer healthy in 2009 they're a 55 win team in 2009 again and you can add a contender to the West. You cant assume teams are healthy now and not do so for teams from those years.

I think you're overplaying the difference with recent years too, we're not talking about the 1980's but years like 2010 and 2015. I wont use tpols' argument since that's just a talent cup argument. However no I dont think it's so clear the mavs are easily the best 7th seed of all time. you're too focused on kristaps as a 2nd star when he started the year off poor and their defense is bad(porzingis is their only great defender). SA was a 7th seed in 2010 and mem was a 7th seed in 2014, you really dont think they could be competitive vs dallas, come on man.

A team like Utah this year looked great on paper with 4 "all stars" and 60 wins (top 5 offense top 3 defense) possibly but conley had a bad year and they had other issues like the bench and missing favors on defense. I honestly lean no on them being better than even the 2008-10 jazz teams, I knew you were underrating that core(mainly deron) by not even mentioning them when throwing out the "weak" teams from 08-10. That could change for utah next year as the west looks insane on paper but teams always disappoint/get injuries. dont disagree with danko that jazz can win a playoff series but that has applied to multiple 6 seeds in the west.

[Tobio-Star]

Oh, and these are the same guys who act like the #1 seed Lakers right now only have Lebron/AD + scrubs, how are they the #1 seed with a roster as bad as this one then? Let me guess, it's all about Lebron and even winning a Playoff series as the #1 seed makes him the GOAT.

Huh? Im pretty sure yall werent saying the same shit before the season started.

NOBODY took this team seriously, they said Bradley and Howard were washed up, Kuzma was trash, Caruso was a G-league player at best, McGee was a walking shaqtin-a-fool, etc.

But now that they are the 1st in the West its because LeBron is playing with elite role-players. I wonder why ArbitraryWater keeps on wasting his time responding to yall

[ArbitraryWater]

yea agreed. whiteside shouldnt be starting on some non playoff teams. Not unplayable but one of the bigger statpadders in the league.

On to AW's point, yea even with freedom of movement I cant disagree with teams being a bit smarter than ever with shot selection, not fouling on defense(ignore the bubble), and finding optimal rate of oreb/transition defense. I do think you're overplaying the offensive mastery, not likely teams are shooting 40% from 3 and some rule changes go in too(freedom of movement) though yes defenses are getting smarter too. Thibs went from defensive genius to not special in 5 years because bigs started shooting 3's well and that counters his strategy to ice pnrs.

Still you cant compare teams in a vacuum because they have the advantage of knowledge. When realgm did their goat team tourney, they made it so the more recent teams gets transported to era of the older team, rules refs and even skills. so harden wouldnt have the eurostep if he played in the 80s, kyrie would be the best ball handler for his time but would be comparable to tim hardaway when transported to 1991. at same time cant assume harden would be using modern moves and getting called for travel every other play. FYI 71 Bucks ended up beating the 17 Warriors because no 3pt line.

The question however was strength of conference not strength of league. It does not stand out compared to other years, the east is solid this year for one so how can the west more deep than ever. I named the blazers roster because that is what they had most of the year. If Utah had Boozer healthy in 2009 they're a 55 win team in 2009 again and you can add a contender to the West. You cant assume teams are healthy now and not do so for teams from those years.

I think you're overplaying the difference with recent years too, we're not talking about the 1980's but years like 2010 and 2015. I wont use tpols' argument since that's just a talent cup argument. However no I dont think it's so clear the mavs are easily the best 7th seed of all time. you're too focused on kristaps as a 2nd star when he started the year off poor and their defense is bad(porzingis is their only great defender).

*cut for characters

again, you focus too much on things that are no longer relevant.

who cares if kristaps was rusty to start when he isnt now? playoff kristaps is current kristaps. same for your blazers talking point.

the mavs offense is HISTORICALLY great.

im not making anything up.

many metrics have them as the GOAT 7th seed.

they were on pace for the #5 seed but luka and zinger being out for a couple weeks each took them down.

still they had key wins over big time teams even without one of the two. most notably they beat Milwaukee without Luka. Were up like 30 on Toronto.

i agree in a debate about best teams ever or pitting the two teams against each other it'd be hard selecting a time table for them to play in, but when it comes to the overall league/conference strength and talent pool and competition, thats irrlevant.

only that basketball has met its peak this year.

selective seeds win totals does not equate conference strength.

2010 was a COMPLETELY different league to now.

not just in players and talent load, but also play style.

2014 and 2015 was widely recognized as most talented conference up to that point.

but its been topped this year.

[Tobio-Star]

The funny thing is, Kawhi's snake ass made his best to keep the Lakers off any good role-players so Pelinka had to fill up the roster with people like Troy Daniels

Yet since LeBron is shitting on the league with them they all become all-star caliber players :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Im not sure if its still the case, but just before COVID the Mavericks had the highest offensive rating ever (116.7), a whole point ahead of the 2019 Warriors.

#1 who is an MVP candidate, #2 is an All-NBA'er, #3 Hardaway a fringe AS.

[NBAGOAT]

again, you focus too much on things that are no longer relevant.

who cares if kristaps was rusty to start when he isnt now? playoff kristaps is current kristaps. same for your blazers talking point.

the mavs offense is HISTORICALLY great.

im not making anything up.

many metrics have them as the GOAT 7th seed.

they were on pace for the #5 seed but luka and zinger being out for a couple weeks each took them down.

still they had key wins over big time teams even without one of the two. most notably they beat Milwaukee without Luka. Were up like 30 on Toronto.

i agree in a debate about best teams ever or pitting the two teams against each other it'd be hard selecting a time table for them to play in, but when it comes to the overall league/conference strength and talent pool and competition, thats irrlevant.

only that basketball has met its peak this year.

selective seeds win totals does not equate conference strength.

2010 was a COMPLETELY different league to now.

not just in players and talent load, but also play style.

2014 and 2015 was widely recognized as most talented conference up to that point.

but its been topped this year.

alright you got a point with net rtg and the offense though yes I do think you overrate them a bit and still focusing too much on talent and no i dont think current kristaps is all-nba(possibly even if you consider him a center). Look at the good that talent did for philly this year. I still give think 2014 mem and 2009 sa are competitive with them. However even if I give you that point, then okc who has a pretty mediocre net rtg is beat by a ton of west 5 seeds. They're not too talented, no depth(trust me i've been watching them a lot), and would lose to a lot of 5 seeds from previous years. Alright you go to current roster argument then utah is really nothing impressive with bojan out, have been losing to non healthy teams in the bubble. Den could easily lose in the 1st rd with barton/harris being rusty. they're not any threat to win the conference without those 2 playing well.

Let's go back to the 09 jazz since you overlook them and going with rosters at the start of the playoffs. they had boozer healthy for the playoffs and were definitely a threat with their deron/boozer/okur/andrei core with great chemistry with multiple years under sloan and fitting well. they're no different from their 54 win teams from 08 and 10 and one of the best 8 seeds of all time. I hate saying this a little but that version of deron is likely ahead of current paul who's a top 3-4 pg. He was that good and being top 10 in the league is nothing to scoff at.

[ArbitraryWater]

alright you got a point with net rtg and the offense though yes I do think you overrate them a bit and still focusing too much on talent and no i dont think current kristaps is all-nba(possibly even if you consider him a center). Look at the good that talent did for philly this year. I still give think 2014 mem and 2009 sa are competitive with them. However even if I give you that point, then okc who has a pretty mediocre net rtg is beat by a ton of west 5 seeds. They're not too talented, no depth(trust me i've been watching them a lot), and would lose to a lot of 5 seeds from previous years. Alright you go to current roster argument then utah is really nothing impressive with bojan out, have been losing to non healthy teams in the bubble. Den could easily lose in the 1st rd with barton/harris being rusty. they're not any threat to win the conference without those 2 playing well.

Let's go back to the 09 jazz since you overlook them and going with rosters at the start of the playoffs. they had boozer healthy for the playoffs and were definitely a threat with their deron/boozer/okur/andrei core with great chemistry with multiple years under sloan and fitting well. they're no different from their 54 win teams from 08 and 10 and one of the best 8 seeds of all time. I hate saying this a little but that version of deron is likely ahead of current paul who's a top 3-4 pg. He was that good and being top 10 in the league is nothing to scoff at.

im not talking about talent alone though. why do you misportray it as that?

there have been more talented teams outside the playoffs than the mavs.

im not sure regarding the point of the 09 jazz.

they were a good team and the west had SOLID teams 5-8, but they didnt own the great equalizer of the 3 ball yet, nor was the conference close to as good 9-15.

you're massively disrespecting denver.

Jokic/Murray/MPJ is a great top 3 and they're also loaded with depth and talents. their 2nd unit took the Lakers to the wire, and the Lakers tried.

They can definitely win the conference.


Again, it all goes back to being in an age of the most and deepest talent ever.

Im not big on OKC. Their record largely rests on getting teams at the right time with key starters out, I compiled a list of it before the bubble.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What does overrating offense mean?

That makes no sense.

The rules are what they are.

Its just the way it is now.

The league is a far better offensive product than it EVER has been, and thats due to the mastering and utilization of the three point shot and an influx and peak in all around basketball talent / depth.

The explanation is pretty straightforward.

You're hyping offense when the "explosion" is influenced by the rules. Just as the numbers intimate. The rues "are what they are" means nothing. We KNOW what they are. They're limitations on the defensive player, and the mandate is there in plain writing. The excerpt I posted was a direct 2020 quote from Nate McMillan. Indiana's headcoach.

Today's talent is high octane. You're not wrong. But the uptick in scoring is partly what I just educated you on, and what you're willfully ignoring. Matter of fact? Don't listen to me. Listen to the coach in the thick of it all. The same dude who has his team #6 in defensive rating.

And for kicks, here are the players speaking on it.


"The game dictates the rules," Suns point guard Ricky Rubio said. "I think we're more athletic. We play a different kind of basketball and I think freedom of movement helps that athleticism."


I understand that you’re changing the direction of the player, but right now it’s overboard a little bit. I mean, it’s been a point of emphasis, but you’re trying to get – you can’t touch guys. Guys are about to run, and basketball is a physical game. That’s what we lift weights for, right?

“If you take the physical nature away from it, then – I mean obviously we have to adapt. It’s going to take some time. And if that’s the rule, then we’ve got to find a way to do it.” - Rudy Gay

:confusedshrug:

[Naero]

In a title-contention context? I'd easily take the 2014 or 2015 West. Much denser gauntlet with the Rockets, Warriors, Spurs, Clippers, and Thunder, and even also-rans like the Grizzlies and Mavericks were posing possible upsets.

This year's West looks like just a two-horse race between the Lakers and Clippers. Like every season, there are scrappers that might give the upper seeds a run for their money, but you'd be shocked to see them get over the hump—much less win it all. It's still the better conference, of course, but it doesn't look historically deep as it is.

It should be next year, however, assuming neither of these LA powerhouses disintegrate. The Warriors will likely resurge, the Nuggets should take the next step (assuming they don't these playoffs), and up-and-comers like the Pelicans (who should also restaff their coaching this off-season) and Mavericks might start making serious noise.


what does the 10/20/20 date refer to?


That's when all winning bettors will receive their payouts, which is on the heels of the NBA Finals (scheduled to end no later than October 13th).

[72-10]

The 2002 East was probably the weakest NBA conference I have seen.

[Vino24]

thats nuts. :oldlol:


I think you're right. the league was the most lopsided Ive ever seen it - felt like every single contender played out west.

Makes the pistons chip more impressive

[ArbitraryWater]

Makes the pistons chip more impressive

u mean even less?

[ArbitraryWater]

In a title-contention context? I'd easily take the 2014 or 2015 West. Much denser gauntlet with the Rockets, Warriors, Spurs, Clippers, and Thunder, and even also-rans like the Grizzlies and Mavericks were posing possible upsets.

This year's West looks like just a two-horse race between the Lakers and Clippers. Like every season, there are scrappers that might give the upper seeds a run for their money, but you'd be shocked to see them get over the hump—much less win it all. It's still the better conference, of course, but it doesn't look historically deep as it is.

It should be next year, however, assuming neither of these LA powerhouses disintegrate. The Warriors will likely resurge, the Nuggets should take the next step (assuming they don't these playoffs), and up-and-comers like the Pelicans (who should also restaff their coaching this off-season) and Mavericks might start making serious noise.



That's when all winning bettors will receive their payouts, which is on the heels of the NBA Finals (scheduled to end no later than October 13th).

You're literally naming teams which are better now..

[ArbitraryWater]

The explanation is pretty straightforward.

You're hyping offense when the "explosion" is influenced by the rules. Just as the numbers intimate. The rues "are what they are" means nothing. We KNOW what they are. They're limitations on the defensive player, and the mandate is there in plain writing. The excerpt I posted was a direct 2020 quote from Nate McMillan. Indiana's headcoach.

Today's talent is high octane. You're not wrong. But the uptick in scoring is partly what I just educated you on, and what you're willfully ignoring. Matter of fact? Don't listen to me. Listen to the coach in the thick of it all. The same dude who has his team #6 in defensive rating.

And for kicks, here are the players speaking on it.





:confusedshrug:

Oh I agree with this.

Its just, the rules are what they are now.

They further explain that great equalizer.

My main point is the implementation and perfection of the three point shot as main equalizer and helper to any person playing basketball.

Its basically another skill which was honed to greater care than any generation coming up before this one.

And that trend peaks with this generation.

[DOUBLE DRIBBLE]

2014 season was pretty crazy, even if you won 48 games out West you were missing the playoffs. 48 wins in the East would of gave you a 3 or 4 seed. lol

[Naero]

You're literally naming teams which are better now..

Sure they are. It doesn't mean this conference is deeper overall, hence I named several more than the bolded.

It wouldn't look astounding if any of those teams (apart from the footnoted also-rans, obviously) won the championship those seasons. Only the LA teams and maybe the Rockets look like serious threats to win this year's West; anyone else doing so would be the most Cinderella-esque feat since the Mavericks' championship. The Nuggets may or may not break through as title-contenders in their own right, but it's hard to grant them the benefit of the doubt after seeing them labor through last postseason—not to mention their youth and relative inexperience.

Maybe there's a point to be made about scrappier lower seeds this year, though that's immaterial in the title-contention picture unless they're serious threats to legitimate contenders. We hear every year about bottom seeds pulling off possible upsets, and it's usually just preseries buildup or contrarianism; most of the time, the overdog dispatches them without a scare.

Not denying this conference is deep; I just don't see how it outrates every other year, much less the mid-2010s. I suppose it could if you upweight non-contenders, such as middle-of-the-packers and playoffs competitors. The strength of a conference is semantical that way, though it seems most—including myself—care mostly about the title-contention density—and this West doesn't stand out there historically.

I'll watch how all they fare in the playoffs with an open mind, though, and gladly retract this if need be. I'm hoping the Nuggets have a revelative run like the 2016 Thunder.

[ArbitraryWater]

Sure they are. It doesn't mean this conference is deeper overall, hence I named several more than the bolded.

It wouldn't look astounding if any of those teams (apart from the footnoted also-rans, obviously) won the championship those seasons. Only the LA teams and maybe the Rockets look like serious threats to win this year's West; anyone else doing so would be the most Cinderella-esque feat since the Mavericks' championship. The Nuggets may or may not break through as title-contenders in their own right, but it's hard to grant them the benefit of the doubt after seeing them labor through last postseason—not to mention their youth and relative inexperience.

Maybe there's a point to be made about scrappier lower seeds this year, though that's immaterial in the title-contention picture unless they're serious threats to legitimate contenders. We hear every year about bottom seeds pulling off possible upsets, and it's usually just preseries buildup or contrarianism; most of the time, the overdog dispatches them without a scare.

Not denying this conference is deep; I just don't see how it outrates every other year, much less the mid-2010s. I suppose it could if you upweight non-contenders, such as middle-of-the-packers and playoffs competitors. The strength of a conference is semantical that way, though it seems most—including myself—care mostly about the title-contention density—and this West doesn't stand out there historically.

I'll watch how all they fare in the playoffs with an open mind, though, and gladly retract this if need be. I'm hoping the Nuggets have a revelative run like the 2016 Thunder.

You‘re a lost cause if you think the 14-15 West is deeper than the current 12-team conference

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Oh I agree with this.

Its just, the rules are what they are now.

They further explain that great equalizer.

My main point is the implementation and perfection of the three point shot as main equalizer and helper to any person playing basketball.

Its basically another skill which was honed to greater care than any generation coming up before this one.

And that trend peaks with this generation.

For sure, but they go hand in hand. Better 3-point shooters today, because players practice them more.

And at the same time, the rules command that style. More space and further room to engage from the perimeter.