Only the Heat/Spurs and Cavs/Warriors had 3 perennial all-stars from 11-17, so

[3ball]

they made all the Finals during that time period (top-heavy league)

Obviously, it's easier to win if you've hopped onto one of these teams in a top-heavy league

Otoh, the 90's only required 1 or 2 stars to make the Finals, so more teams were Finals-caliber.. That means MJ faced more Finals-caliber teams, and therefore better comp than Lebron did as 1 of 2 Finals-caliber teams (free pass)

parity (many good teams) = optimal competitive environment and toughest path

[BigtimeNBAFan]

The Spurs never had more than 2 all stars at the same time. Calling Manu a perennial all star is a bit much since he only made the all star game twice in his career and one was in 2005 well before the era you speak of.

[Axe]

The spurs never even made b2b finals appearances until 2014. And ffs, please stop comparing them to what you've seen in the 90s just because you're trying to prove something else.

[FromDowntown]

2011 Wade - All-NBA 2nd team
2012 Wade - All-NBA 3rd team
2013 Wade - All-NBA 3rd team
2015 Kyrie - All-NBA 3rd team


So only 4 all-nba teammates in 17 seasons, and only once had an All-NBA 2nd team teammate or better

How many did MJ play with? :lol

You lose again baby boi

[AirBonner]

2011 Wade - All-NBA 2nd team
2012 Wade - All-NBA 3rd team
2013 Wade - All-NBA 3rd team
2015 Kyrie - All-NBA 3rd team


So only 4 all-nba teammates in 17 seasons, and only once had an All-NBA 2nd team teammate or better

How many did MJ play with? :lol

You lose again baby boi

Rip op damn

[NBAGOAT]

Damn that means your road is really hard when you play on a 2 star team and the other teams have 3 so we really should downplay rings then. Cp3 over Malone and Barkley all time then.

[Manny98]

Not true they were plenty of other teams that had 3 all star caliber players during that span.

[rmt]

they made all the Finals during that time period (top-heavy league)

Obviously, it's easier to win if you've hopped onto one of these teams in a top-heavy league

Otoh, the 90's only required 1 or 2 stars to make the Finals, so more teams were Finals-caliber.. That means MJ faced more Finals-caliber teams, and therefore better comp than Lebron did as 1 of 2 Finals-caliber teams (free pass)

parity (many good teams) = optimal competitive environment and toughest path

Never more than 2 All-Stars during this period and made Finals twice:

2011 - Duncan, Manu
2012 - Parker
2013 - Duncan, Parker
2014 - Parker
2015 - Duncan, Aldridge
2016 - Aldridge

[ImKobe]

2011 Wade - All-NBA 2nd team
2012 Wade - All-NBA 3rd team
2013 Wade - All-NBA 3rd team
2015 Kyrie - All-NBA 3rd team


So only 4 all-nba teammates in 17 seasons, and only once had an All-NBA 2nd team teammate or better

How many did MJ play with? :lol

You lose again baby boi

AD will be all-NBA this year, Irving was injured in 2016 RS but obviously outplayed the MVP in the Finals.

Lebron's played with Wade, AD, Kyrie & Love. Wade & AD were top 5 in the league when he joined them and Irving was top 10-15, Love was All-NBA 2nd team in 2014 before being traded to the Cavs as well.

[Axe]

The thunder during the trio years would have been included if they made the finals more than once and if harden already became all-star before his tenure with the rockets.

[3ball]

.
Thread Cliffs (revised OP)


From 11-17', Lebron had 1 of the 2 teams with Big 3's and therefore 1 of the 2 Finals-caliber teams (top-heavy league) - it's clearly easier to be 1 of 2 Finals-caliber teams then 1 of many (like the 90's when many teams were Finals-caliber because only 1 or 2 stars were needed, aka parity.. the talent was more evenly spread out)

So the "comp" argument is a complete fraud because lebron hopped onto 1 of the 2 Finals-caliber teams in a top heavy league - both times (11', 15') his team was the preseason and pre-playoffs favorite to win title (Year 1 favorite = easiest path possible)

[FromDowntown]

AD will be all-NBA this year, Irving was injured in 2016 RS but obviously outplayed the MVP in the Finals.

Lebron's played with Wade, AD, Kyrie & Love. Wade & AD were top 5 in the league when he joined them and Irving was top 10-15, Love was All-NBA 2nd team in 2014 before being traded to the Cavs as well.

Right, so assuming AD makes it then that's 5 in 17 years. Wanna do MJ now?.

And wanna do ALL-Defense teammates too.

WARNING. The results may shock you.

[3ball]

Right, so assuming AD makes it then that's 5 in 17 years. Wanna do MJ now?.

And wanna do ALL-Defense teammates too.

WARNING. The results may shock you.

its obvious that lebron played with more good players - MJ only had Pippen - Lebron had Wade/Bosh and Kyrie/Love, or Mo/Jamison/Zydrunas (3 all-stars between 05-09')...

So lebron played with more good offensive players, and also more guys that were all-defense, aka Hughes, Battier, Wade, Varejao.. and guys like Bosh, Shumpert, Birdman, Mosgov, Haslem, and others were very good defenders as well.

Finally, Lebron played with so many amazing role players like HOF Ingram, Korver, Shaq, D Rose, Hood, Crowder, Tristan, Kuzma, etc.. just an amazing shoal of players and far superior to Kerr, Stacey King, or bill cartwright

[Hey Yo]

its obvious that lebron played with more good players - MJ only had Pippen - Lebron had Wade/Bosh and Kyrie/Love, or Mo/Jamison/Zydrunas (3 all-stars between 05-09')...

So lebron played with more good offensive players, and also more guys that were all-defense, aka Hughes, Battier, Wade, Varejao.. and guys like Bosh, Shumpert, Birdman, Mosgov, Haslem, and others were very good defenders as well.

Finally, Lebron played with so many amazing role players like HOF Ingram, Korver, Shaq, D Rose, Hood, Crowder, Tristan, Kuzma, etc.. just an amazing shoal of players and far superior to Kerr, Stacey King, or bill cartwright
Mo Williams? What happened to your "1x all-stars don't count" when talking about teammates being all-stars?

Why the need to flip-flop so often in your opinions? You that shook, chico?

[3ball]

Mo Williams? What happened to your "1x all-stars don't count" when talking about teammates being all-stars?

Why the need to flip-flop so often in your opinions? You that shook, chico?

Lebron played with a ton of all-stars like Korver and Mo.. Hughes was 22/5/5 and 1st team all-defense the year before joining Lebron, while Jamison was 22/9 and a 2-time all-star.. D Rose was the 10th or 11th player for him and basically got cut.. the list goes on and on and on.. he's simply played with far more good players than MJ did - it's not even close

[Hey Yo]

Lebron played with a ton of all-stars like Korver and Mo.. Hughes was 22/5/5 and 1st team all-defense the year before joining Lebron, while Jamison was 22/9 and a 2-time all-star.. D Rose was the 10th or 11th player for him and basically got cut.. the list goes on and on and on.. he's simply played with far more good players than MJ did - it's not even close
Mo Williams? What happened to your "1x all-stars don't count" when talking about teammates being all-stars?

Why the need to flip-flop so often in your opinions? You that shook, chico?

[3ball]

Mo Williams? What happened to your "1x all-stars don't count" when talking about teammates being all-stars?

Why the need to flip-flop so often in your opinions? You that shook, chico?

1x > 0x

So let's add BJ and Horace to MJ's list of all-stars.. Pippen (6) and BJ/Horace with 1 each...

^^^ that's nothing compared to lebron's 7 all-star teammates, plus Jamison was recent 2x all-star and still in prime, so that's 8 all-stars... NOT including 22/5/5 Larry Hughes (1st team all-defense).. so that's 9 really good players vs 3 for Jordan and 4 if you include kukoc, or 5 if you include rodman (both are a stretch)

[Hey Yo]

There needed to be a 2nd injury in order for Mo to be a replacement player. He wasnt even chosen as the first replacement.

1x named straight to the team >>>>> 2nd alternate replacement.

[3ball]

There needed to be a 2nd injury in order for Mo to be a replacement player. He wasnt even chosen as the first replacement.

1x named straight to the team >>>>> 2nd alternate replacement.


Mo destroys Paxson or Kerr, and also 89' Pippen:


09' Mo Will RS... 18/3/4.. 58.8 ts.. 115 ORtg.. 17.1 PER.. 0.165 ws/48.. 2.3 bpm.. 3.1 vorp
89' Pippen RS'... 14/6/4.. 52.4 ts.. 102 ORtg.. 14.9 PER.. 0.080 ws/48.. 1.4 bpm.. 2.1 vorp

09' Mo Will ECF...... 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. #3 team defense
89' Pippen ECF......... 9/5/3.. 46.0 ts.... 95 ORtg..

09' Mo Will ECF...... 18/3/4.. 50.5 ts.. 102 ORtg.. #3 team defense.. lost to #4 SRS (2 all-stars)
89' Pippen 1st Rd... 15/9/4.. 51.0 ts.. 102 ORtg.. #11 team defense.. beat #1 SRS (3 all-stars*)

* plus 20/5/5 Ron Harper


Yes, lebron's ball-dominant format was proven to be a less-effective way to win, since he had more help on both sides of the ball (#3 defense and Mo on offense), but lost to weaker teams than MJ beat

[Roundball_Rock]

Interesting analysis. In the 90's only one team had two MVP caliber players on their roster for more than two years (reference to Orlando). Guess which team it was? :lol