How did LeBron make 9 Finals with no all defensive help?

[FromDowntown]

For comparison, MJ had at least 1 all defender for every Finals run and for two of them he had 2 All Defensive teamates (93, 96).

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/separator-light1378072ed9159071.gif
ALL defensive teamates

LeBron
2007: None
2011: None
2012: None
2013: None
2014: None
2015: None
2016: None
2017: None
2018: None
0 in 9 Finals years

Jordan
1991: Pippen
1992: Pippen
1993: Pippen, Grant
1996: Pippen, Rodman
1997: Pippen
1998: Pippen
8 in 6 Finals years

[dbugz]

3/9

it all that matters

1st runner up is always the biggest loser.

[3ball]

How did the 08' Cavs take the Celtics 7 games with Lebron averaging 26 on 35%?...

DEFENSE

The Cavs became a top 5 defensive team when Mike Brown (future COY) took over from 06-10' (and the reigning 1st team defender Hughes also joined in 06' along with future all-defender Varejao)

Lebron simply played with more good defenders and guys that were all-defense - aka Varejao, Wade, Battier, Hughes... he simply had much better defenders overall - aka Jordan never had a center get 1 block per game, whereas Zydrunas was a 2.5 block guy... And Mosgov, Shaq or AD got 1.5 - 2.5 blocks.. Shumpert is a better guard defender than MJ ever had... and Bosh spearhead the Heat's legendary small-ball defense, with his ground-breaking PNR defense for bigs - he was a better defender than Grant... Birdman, Haslem, Delonte, Jefferson and others were also very good defenders and better than the stiffs MJ had, aka Pacson or Perdue

Btw, lebron didn't start making Finals until he formed a super-team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning, aka 01' Sixers, 02/03 Nets, 07' Cavs, 09' Magic... <---- that's the definition of cheating, stacking the deck, manufactured resume, etc

[ELITEpower23]

Wow Pippen was a beast on defense.

Plus in 5 of 6 Finals outscored opponent's #2 option and once even outscored the #1 option?

#GoatSecondOption

#NoWonderMJfinallyWon

#From1-9toChips

[Lebron23]

3/9

it all that matters

1st runner up is always the biggest loser.

Getting 1-9 without Pippen is worst than losing in the nba finals as an under dog.

[coin24]

Getting 1-9 without Pippen is worst than losing in the nba finals as an under dog.

First season in the west and can't even make the playoffs:oldlol:

#CantHangWithTheBigDogs

#NeedMoarHelp

[ELITEpower23]

First season in the west and can't even make the playoffs:oldlol:

#CantHangWithTheBigDogs

#NeedMoarHelp

2 years
1seed

LeCultivate

[warriorfan]

He played in a shitty conference.

[Lebron23]

2 years
1seed

LeCultivate

This.

[Lebron23]

He played in a shitty conference.

Jordan missed the playoffs in 2002 and 2003 playing in a much $hittier eastern conference.

[Roundball_Rock]

The same people who dismiss LeBron making 9 finals will:

1) Often hype people making one or two (and losing), especially if they played in the 90's.
2) Say the 9 trips don't count because of the "weak East" but then say he sucks because they lost to the superior conference's champ 6 times.
3) Mysteriously only apply the "weak East" to LeBron's teams. There was a lengthy PG thread a few weeks ago. A lot of LeBron haters praised PG for making the ECF (not the finals, the ECF) twice--not a single mention of "weak East" in that nearly 40 page thread. :lol

[warriorfan]

A team led by Brandon Jennings and Monta Ellis made it to the playoffs in the East.

Let that sink in for a moment.

[dbugz]

Getting 1-9 without Pippen is worst than losing in the nba finals as an under dog.

libron's fans logic?

libron has 0 ring w/out the great james jones.

Get back to me again if you have better argument.

nope, never mind there's nothing to talk about here.

MJ > libron

as always, unanimous. even his close friend already admiited it.

Dwyane Wade says LeBron James can never be greater than Michael Jordan (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/dwyane-wade-says-lebron-james-can-never-be-greater-than-michael-jordan/)

Carmelo Anthony wasn’t comfortable with the question, but he acknowledges there is just one basketball GOAT — Michael Jordan (https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/carmelo-anthony-weighs-in-on-michael-jordan-lebron-james-goat-debate/)

Mike Malone: Killer Mentality Made Michael Jordan Better Than LeBron James (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2887907-michael-malone-killer-mentality-made-michael-jordan-better-than-lebron-james)

Mario Chalmers And JR Smith Say Michael Jordan Is The GOAT (https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/05/05/mario-chalmers-and-jr-smith-say-michael-jordan-is-the-goat/)

Udonis Haslem, former LeBron James teammate, says Michael Jordan is the GOAT (https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/udonis-haslem-former-lebron-james-teammate-says-michael-jordan-goat/551975)

Ray Allen still takes Michael Jordan over LeBron James as the greatest of all time (https://clutchpoints.com/nba-news-ray-allen-still-takes-michael-jordan-over-lebron-james-as-the-greatest-of-all-time/)

https://media0.giphy.com/media/3ornkdvPFqHxkC5QE8/200_d.gif

[Lebron23]

libron's fans logic?

libron has 0 ring w/out the great james jones.

Get back to me again if you have better argument.

nope, never mind there's nothing to talk about here.

MJ > libron

as always, unanimous. even his close friend already admiited it.

Dwyane Wade says LeBron James can never be greater than Michael Jordan (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/dwyane-wade-says-lebron-james-can-never-be-greater-than-michael-jordan/)

Carmelo Anthony wasn’t comfortable with the question, but he acknowledges there is just one basketball GOAT — Michael Jordan (https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/carmelo-anthony-weighs-in-on-michael-jordan-lebron-james-goat-debate/)

Mike Malone: Killer Mentality Made Michael Jordan Better Than LeBron James (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2887907-michael-malone-killer-mentality-made-michael-jordan-better-than-lebron-james)

Mario Chalmers And JR Smith Say Michael Jordan Is The GOAT (https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/05/05/mario-chalmers-and-jr-smith-say-michael-jordan-is-the-goat/)

Udonis Haslem, former LeBron James teammate, says Michael Jordan is the GOAT (https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/udonis-haslem-former-lebron-james-teammate-says-michael-jordan-goat/551975)

Ray Allen still takes Michael Jordan over LeBron James as the greatest of all time (https://clutchpoints.com/nba-news-ray-allen-still-takes-michael-jordan-over-lebron-james-as-the-greatest-of-all-time/)

https://media0.giphy.com/media/3ornkdvPFqHxkC5QE8/200_d.gif

Who cares?? Lebron and Pippen duo would win 10 nba titles in the 1990's.

[3ball]

The same people who dismiss LeBron making 9 finals will:

1) Often hype people making one or two (and losing), especially if they played in the 90's.
2) Say the 9 trips don't count because of the "weak East" but then say he sucks because they lost to the superior conference's champ 6 times.
3) Mysteriously only apply the "weak East" to LeBron's teams. There was a lengthy PG thread a few weeks ago. A lot of LeBron haters praised PG for making the ECF (not the finals, the ECF) twice--not a single mention of "weak East" in that nearly 40 page thread. :lol

Only Lebron is singled out for the weak East because only lebron formed a super-team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning.. that's the definition of stacking the deck/manufacturing resume so people correctly knock lebron for making a big fish super-team in a small pond

[ImKobe]

Why does he need all defensive help when he can get to the Finals without even facing an average offense (2013) ?

Also, Wade was 2nd team all-defense when Lebron joined the Heat, and he's seen as one of the better defensive guards in league history, Bosh absolutely balled out on the defensive side in the 2013 Finals. Tristan Thompson was no scrub either.

He had plenty of help on the defensive end, those late 2000s Cavs squads and 2011-13 Heat squads were elite on the defensive end. He never won a championship with a team that wasn't at least top 10 on the defensive end.

[Lebron23]

Why does he need all defensive help when he can get to the Finals without even facing an average offense (2013) ?

Also, Wade was 2nd team all-defense when Lebron joined the Heat, and he's seen as one of the better defensive guards in league history, Bosh absolutely balled out on the defensive side in the 2013 Finals. Tristan Thompson was no scrub either.

He had plenty of help on the defensive end, those late 2000s Cavs squads and 2011-13 Heat squads were elite on the defensive end. He never won a championship with a team that wasn't at least top 10 on the defensive end.

2016 Cavaliers were 15th on defense. But they improved defensively in the playoffs.

[ImKobe]

2016 Cavaliers were 15th on defense. But they improved defensively in the playoffs.

They were 10th in DRTG.

[coin24]

Teams with losing records make the playoffs every year in the east. This year was the first in around 20 years in the west.

[coin24]

2 years
1seed

LeCultivate

MVP DAVIS:applause:

[tpols]

Those early Cleveland teams had elite defensive ranks. 3rd in 2009. 4th in 2007.

Miami was literally a top 5 elite defense in 2010 BEFORE they loaded up with Battier, Birdman, Lebron, Bosh etc.

What a fail thread. :facepalm

[Smoke117]

Dwyane Wade was a great defensive guard in 2011, and 2012 and the first 2/3rds of the 2013 season before his knee issues.

[G0ATbe]

bosh was probably the closest thing he had to that all D guy. Keep in mind this is the same player who got bullied so badly on a regular basis that Spo was forced to give Joel Anthony significant rotation minutes in the regular season and playoffs. A guy that shouldn’t have even been in the nba.

[AirBonner]

LeCultivate

[Axe]

Getting 1-9 without Pippen is worst than losing in the nba finals as an under dog.
In most occasions, you can't expect a last seed team to produce a stunning upset against top seed teams.

[SATAN]

I'm glad LeBron pissed off so many MJ stans over the years. Delusional ****ing retards.