NBA players who have made careers out of exploiting mismatches aka Frauds

[dreamshake]

1. Lebron James - here's a guy who is 6'8 280lbs with elite athleticism yet can never seem to consistently score against players in his position. Take a look at the playoffs against Marion, Iguodala, Butler, Durant and Leonard. He struggled mightily to score against them one on one. The bulk of LeBron's scoring comes against the guards he's able to force a switch on by calling for a screen.

2. Chris Paul - the smaller version of LBJ. Always exploiting pick n roll matchups with bigs so he can isolate them instead of going at guards 1 on 1.

3. Luka Doncic - in the same mold as LBJ. We've seen him call for screen after screen to get matched up with Reggie Jackson or Lou Williams in the Mavericks series. And for good reason. He can't score on Kawhi.

Others?

There's something to be said about people who pick on those smaller than them. It's akin to a heavyweight playing against a lightweight and getting a heavyweight championship when he couldn't get the title against his own weight class. Let's stop glorifying these frauds. Their dominance is conditional unlike players who can score against anyone any day at their own will: MJ, Kobe, Durant, Leonard.

[Overdrive]

Looking for a mismatch is a smart thing. MJ also did that...

Durant is a walking mismatch. You'd need centers to guard his length.

[NBAGOAT]

you didnt watch durant vs gs the last 2 years. he was on a guard like 50% of the time.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I get it. This was satire and you were impersonating Skip Bayless.

Makes it funnier too when we know that teams actively seek mismatches. ALL GAME. Because that is the smart thing to do. Good joke though. Skip clearly knows jackshit about basketball :oldlol:

[r0drig0lac]

1. Lebron James - here's a guy who is 6'8 280lbs with elite athleticism yet can never seem to consistently score against players in his position. Take a look at the playoffs against Marion, Iguodala, Butler, Durant and Leonard. He struggled mightily to score against them one on one. The bulk of LeBron's scoring comes against the guards he's able to force a switch on by calling for a screen.

2. Chris Paul - the smaller version of LBJ. Always exploiting pick n roll matchups with bigs so he can isolate them instead of going at guards 1 on 1.

3. Luka Doncic - in the same mold as LBJ. We've seen him call for screen after screen to get matched up with Reggie Jackson or Lou Williams in the Mavericks series. And for good reason. He can't score on Kawhi.

Others?

There's something to be said about people who pick on those smaller than them. It's akin to a heavyweight playing against a lightweight and getting a heavyweight championship when he couldn't get the title against his own weight class. Let's stop glorifying these frauds. Their dominance is conditional unlike players who can score against anyone any day at their own will: MJ, Kobe, Durant, Leonard.

Harden?

[dbugz]

libron on the weak east.

imagine pierce as your greatest rival there :roll: :roll:

[Kblaze8855]

If teams are dumb enough to let superstars literally select the worst defender on the floor to guard them instead of the best they deserve it. Apparently the days of fighting through a screen have just ended. They don’t even try.

[3ball]

That's why Lebron and Luka don't post, since it requires scoring without a screen and directly ON their man.

That's the difference between today's game and prior eras - prior eras were forced to score ON defenders more often due to less spacing and screen-roll offenses

[Real Men Wear Green]

You generate efficient offense by exploiting your advantages. Should Shaq have taken 10 threes per game because it would be unfair to the defense if he posts up?

[3ball]

You generate efficient offense by exploiting your advantages. Should Shaq have taken 10 threes per game because it would be unfair to the defense if he posts up?

You aren't addressing the OP's point, which is that today's game is an easier, beginner format that allows players to avoid scoring on like-sized defenders as much as prior eras, due to screen-rolls, spacing, and beta mentalities

[Vino24]

MJ’s toughest matchup was 10ppg Hornacek and Stockton.

[ThatCoolKid]

You aren't addressing the OP's point, which is that today's game is an easier, beginner format that allows players to avoid scoring on like-sized defenders as much as prior eras, due to screen-rolls, spacing, and beta mentalities

Today's players are more skilled and can shoot the ball more and execute more optimal offensive strategies. Nothing beta about that :confusedshrug:

[Kblaze8855]

I would like to see some of the all time defenders reaction to being told that on a key possession in the playoffs they should simply let their assignment choose a worse defender to attack. Switches happened in every era....but it’s so easy now I can’t believe nobody has a problem with it. You watch GOAT defenders just let the other star choose your worse defender and abuse him....


I wonder what Gary Payton would say if you told him he wasn’t allowed to guard Tim Hardaway for a key basket with the title on the line. That the right thing to do....is pass him off to whoever Tim selects to attack. Maybe give him to Nate next ho was also a great defender but some big or someone totally mismatched? Just casually hand him off like Lebron did Durant in the finals with the game on the line.

Just reeks of softness to me. All that nonsense ISH talks about Lebron is nothing to me. Haters usually being idiots. Handing off Durant so casually and strolling away while he takes on who he wants was just lame to me.

But everyone does it. **** the man on the pick and pop. And if the man on the ball wants to drive that’s what help is for....and recovering. Don’t just let him have some garbage defender when you’re paying an elite defender for these situations.

That role player gonna have to show me his heart and make the jumper or something. He can have that shot. Your star isn’t choosing my worst defender to end my season.

[3ball]

Today's players are more skilled and can shoot the ball more and execute more optimal offensive strategies. Nothing beta about that :confusedshrug:

Today's player is worse at making shots ON defenders and is therefore less skilled

Today's player seeks open looks, which is less skill and super-beta

[Marchesk]

You generate efficient offense by exploiting your advantages. Should Shaq have taken 10 threes per game because it would be unfair to the defense if he posts up?

I'm waiting to see how many threes Zion ends up averaging over the next decade. So far, Embiid is at 3.6.

[tpols]

if you try to fight through the screen over the top the offensive player is going to get picked up briefly by the big man til the main defender can recover and the pick setter is going to have a free roll to the rim. From there the corner 3 help defender will have to rotate to prevent a dunk, leaving a shooter open for the highest EV shot in the game. if the main defender tries to fight going under the screen the dribbler has an open shot. Either way, fighting through the screen is going to be tough to not lead to bad results but that Dort guy yesterday was doing a good job of it on harden at the end of the game so i guess it can be done.

[NBAGOAT]

if you try to fight through the screen over the top the offensive player is going to get picked up briefly by the big man til the main defender can recover and the pick setter is going to have a free roll to the rim. From there the corner 3 help defender will have to rotate to prevent a dunk, leaving a shooter open for the highest EV shot in the game. if the main defender tries to fight going under the screen the dribbler has an open shot. Either way, fighting through the screen is going to be tough to not lead to bad results but that Dort guy yesterday was doing a good job of it on harden at the end of the game so i guess it can be done.

Slightly disagree. Dorts been doing a good job but the big has been helping out quite a bit too. the screener can also pop out for an open shot often. I think it’s actually a smart move to leave Jeff green open but he’s killed them on those pnpop 3s so far.

Ofc since hou has still gotten some trouble from dort they’ve gone with the inverted pnr with a green and harden some plays and that shit is unguardable. With Dallas it might be a good idea to force a role guy to shoot or make a 4 on 3 play but everyone’s on point right now besides kleber

[Kblaze8855]

Of course fighting through the screen is tough. That’s why you have great tough defenders guarding superstars if possible. What’s the point when they are told to just step back and let a poor defender do it?

[imdaman99]

So Stockton and Malone pick and roll deemed them as frauds? OK, thanks.

Picks are a part of the game buddy, accept it. Do I like when teams spam it over and over and over and Steven Adams is left on some quick PG? No. But it's up to the coach to figure it out. I don't know what Mike Malone was doing allowing it to happen all game long against Jokic. I guess he said let's just try to outscore them.

[tpols]

it doesnt look like teams from the past spammed on ball screens aside from maybe a few teams. Fighting through a screen a couple times aint that bad... having to do it 2-3 times per possesion damn near every possesion of the game is rough.

[dreamshake]

You generate efficient offense by exploiting your advantages. Should Shaq have taken 10 threes per game because it would be unfair to the defense if he posts up?

No. Shaq dominated everyone they threw at him. He didn't depend on a screen to do that.

[Stanley Kobrick]

stephen curry needs 4 screens on every possession to get a shot

[3ball]

great defenders can make the screen-setter miss the screen or set a weak one that's easy to fight thru.. basically doesn't require fighting through at all

Ultimately, the defender wants the screen-setter to kind of miss, and set one of those those "going thru the motions" screens.. which makes coaches real mad

[PeroAntic]

Of course fighting through the screen is tough. That’s why you have great tough defenders guarding superstars if possible. What’s the point when they are told to just step back and let a poor defender do it?

Fighting through the screen is not possible anymore because of the combination of flopping and whistle happy refs.

[Real Men Wear Green]

You aren't addressing the OP's point, which is that today's game is an easier, beginner format that allows players to avoid scoring on like-sized defenders as much as prior eras, due to screen-rolls, spacing, and beta mentalities

Yeah this is idiotic. The game has evolved, offenses are designed to attack the weaknesses of the defense with their strength.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No. Shaq dominated everyone they threw at him. He didn't depend on a screen to do that. He abused his advantage. Almost every ball handler in NBA history has had a pick set for him. It's part of the game. These days every team does it. The point is to win not to prove you can generate offense one on one.

[ralph_i_el]

The problem is LeBron is a mismatch with almost anyone. Anyone who could match up with him size wise he (was) way faster than. Anyone who could match his quickness was way smaller.

Luka does well at scoring on defenders of all sizes, using footwork. Just last game he bodied Marcus Morris for a rebound and bucket, and trucked Montrez Harrell. He uses timing to keep bigs on the ground (or in foul trouble). He exploits his big body on guards. I don't think op is a good take.

[dreamshake]

The problem is LeBron is a mismatch with almost anyone. Anyone who could match up with him size wise he (was) way faster than. Anyone who could match his quickness was way smaller.

Luka does well at scoring on defenders of all sizes, using footwork. Just last game he bodied Marcus Morris for a rebound and bucket, and trucked Montrez Harrell. He uses timing to keep bigs on the ground (or in foul trouble). He exploits his big body on guards. I don't think op is a good take.

And against Kawhi Leonard he spam calls for a screen until he can run away from having to try to score on Kawhi. Why’s that? Because he’s a mismatch seeker. Nothing skilled about beating someone who’s not even in your weight class. It’s a weak mentality that destroys you in the end. Great players relish the challenge. Mentally weak players run from it.

[ralph_i_el]

And against Kawhi Leonard he spam calls for a screen until he can run away from having to try to score on Kawhi. Why’s that? Because he’s a mismatch seeker. Nothing skilled about beating someone who’s not even in your weight class. It’s a weak mentality that destroys you in the end. Great players relish the challenge. Mentally weak players run from it.

The great players seek any advantage. That's how you win. Curry goes through 4 screens because screening off and on the ball is a really good strategy, and always has been. Kawhi runs PnR too. Kawhi and Kobe would try to seek out and punish defenders with a size advantage.

Pretty much every wing is a size mismatch with Kawhi if you consider that he has the wingspan of a long center. Anytime he posts up a swingman, he's exploiting a size mismatch.

[dreamshake]

The great players seek any advantage. That's how you win. Curry goes through 4 screens because screening off and on the ball is a really good strategy, and always has been. Kawhi runs PnR too. Kawhi and Kobe would try to seek out and punish defenders with a size advantage.

Pretty much every wing is a size mismatch with Kawhi if you consider that he has the wingspan of a long center. Anytime he posts up a swingman, he's exploiting a size mismatch.

There’s a difference between calling for the screen once in awhile and calling for the screen 3 times per possession until you get the mismatch. The latter is just bitch made spamming and shows how mentally weak a player is because he’s telling the world he doesn’t want that matchup. Like he would literally spend 20 seconds of clock spamming that pick n roll than having to accept the challenge of scoring on his positional defender. Ain’t nothing great about that.

[tpols]

There’s a difference between calling for the screen once in awhile and calling for the screen 3 times per possession until you get the mismatch. The latter is just bitch made spamming and shows how mentally weak a player is because he’s telling the world he doesn’t want that matchup. Like he would literally spend 20 seconds of clock spamming that pick n roll than having to accept the challenge of scoring on his positional defender. Ain’t nothing great about that.

Bingo.

These guys... ball dominators... will waste whole possessions hunting a weak defender while dribble spamming. That takes the rest of the team out the game, and basically does show a bitchmade mentality that theyre shook of attacking the premier defender. I remember watching Kobe growing up... he was ecstatic to shit on a guy that touted himself as a top defender. The bruce bowens, ron artests, doug christies, raja bells, etc. And he didn't have to consume a tremendous time of possession to beat them while at the same time not allowing his teammates to touch the ball, and demoralizing a defense that had no other options to throw.

[SATAN]

http://bballaddiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/muggsy-bogues-dunk-626x1024.jpg

[dreamshake]

http://bballaddiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/muggsy-bogues-dunk-626x1024.jpg

Now post the picture of LeBron posting up Barea and tell me who got exploited in that one.

[tpols]

The irony is muggsy bogues was the 5'3 defensive anchor on championship teams pre-NBA. He was ferocious and laterally quicker than a cat. It reminds me of when Durant got locked up by Chris Paul. If a dude is quick enough, feisty enough, and beats you to your spot every time... he can stop you even if you're taller.

[ralph_i_el]

There’s a difference between calling for the screen once in awhile and calling for the screen 3 times per possession until you get the mismatch. The latter is just bitch made spamming and shows how mentally weak a player is because he’s telling the world he doesn’t want that matchup. Like he would literally spend 20 seconds of clock spamming that pick n roll than having to accept the challenge of scoring on his positional defender. Ain’t nothing great about that.

If he's just sitting there doing nothing, then you can fight through the screen and recover. It doesn't work unless they can take the bit of separation the screen gives them and make something of it.

Illegal screens are a problem, and the league could probably make them less prevalent if they tightened up on the rules.

[FromDowntown]

Um..


Bleacher Report was having a hard time finding MJ's rivalry. Starks? :lol

https://i.postimg.cc/k5pXdN5h/Rivalry-Decade.jpg


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2896346-br-nba-staff-the-biggest-rivalries-of-every-nba-decade

Next :pimp:

[FromDowntown]

http://bballaddiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/muggsy-bogues-dunk-626x1024.jpg

#90s ball :roll:

[ralph_i_el]

Y'all must be loving this Jamal Murray performance. Tough 1-on-1 J's off the dribble. Wow.

[dreamshake]

Harden does this too. There are times when he does say fk it clear out and let me take this guy one on one. But for the most part him, LeBron, Paul and Doncic play the same possum game all possession.

[GimmeThat]

it'd be saying rebounding and the concept of the better team win doesn't exist

[ImKobe]

KD and Kawhi are the last real ones left, they'll score on anybody and don't need a ****ing screen to do it.

[Reggie43]

What do you guys think about Larry Bird being offended when guarded by a white guy? Is that the right type of mentality :lol

[Kblaze8855]

KD and Kawhi are the last real ones left, they'll score on anybody and don't need a ****ing screen to do it.


Did you not watch them in the finals?

The Cavs just stood there and let him do exactly what we are taking about. Select the defender he wants to attack:



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UncomfortableUnimportantAlaskanmalamute-size_restricted.gif



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GorgeousFlakyAmericancrayfish-size_restricted.gif



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CelebratedEthicalHerculesbeetle-size_restricted.gif





Set a screen and get to attack Love, Korver, or Hood at will. And the Cavs just allowed it.



Kd can score on anyone. All these stars can. But they don’t have much reason to anymore. The other team will just let you choose who guards you even in the closing moments of finals games.

[Kblaze8855]

And for the record I do see that Steph set the screen on the last one and a KD/Steph screen is death if you leave either open. Problem is....they play it the same way when Iggy sets it.

All a screen is there to do is make the defenders think and possibly make the wrong decision. “Switch everything” is coaches not trusting players to make the call on the fly. It’s putting the defense on cruise control because apparently the players are idiots. You don’t have to tell Pippen and Jordan how to play it. They work it out among themselves.

Did bad switches happen in every era? Sure. But I think the better defenders should be offended at the idea of just handing off a star to some(Relative) scrub with titles on the line.

But if you don’t put the D on easy mode someone might *gasp* make a decision.

It’s just weak to me. Coach me up and hold them responsible. Teams out here guarding an Ayton pick like a Lillard one because players aren’t trusted to make the adjustment on the fly.

[Gudo]

Now post the picture of LeBron posting up Barea and tell me who got exploited in that one.

Dayumm :lol

[Bronbron23]

Looking for a mismatch is a smart thing. MJ also did that...

Durant is a walking mismatch. You'd need centers to guard his length.


it is the smart thing but its literally every play now. Mj would do it sometimes but the triangle uses alot more off ball screens plus mj was a competitor. He took it personally when good defender woukd try to check him and hed often go at them.

Like you said though it is the smart play so its hard to hate on it. As a viewer though i miss seeing great offensive players going head up against great defenders.

[ralph_i_el]

And for the record I do see that Steph set the screen on the last one and a KD/Steph screen is death if you leave either open. Problem is....they play it the same way when Iggy sets it.

All a screen is there to do is make the defenders think and possibly make the wrong decision. “Switch everything” is coaches not trusting players to make the call on the fly. It’s putting the defense on cruise control because apparently the players are idiots. You don’t have to tell Pippen and Jordan how to play it. They work it out among themselves.

Did bad switches happen in every era? Sure. But I think the better defenders should be offended at the idea of just handing off a star to some(Relative) scrub with titles on the line.

But if you don’t put the D on easy mode someone might *gasp* make a decision.

It’s just weak to me. Coach me up and hold them responsible. Teams out here guarding an Ayton pick like a Lillard one because players aren’t trusted to make the adjustment on the fly.

This is why the Raptors have a chance imo. They actually do make intelligent switches to cover for each other. Their rotations are really nice.

[Kblaze8855]

I read a while back that Draymond personally changed almost every teams scouting and team building by playing the 5 in their death lineup. It was Jeff Hornacek, dantoni, and some other coaches talking about it. Draymond made teams think switch everything was the way to go all the time and everyone started looking for one of their own. Like I’ve been saying the greatest players and teams bend the entire sport around them.

Very few innovate. They copy.

[tpols]

Harden had 56 on ball screens set for him in game 4.

I can see how that would be annoying to deal with.

link (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/zachlowe29735069/james-harden-vs-luguentz-dort-nba-best-one-one-battle)