How's harden one of the best scorers ever when he's not even top 4 in the league?

[Bronbron23]

Yeah his regular season scoring stats are sweet but bron, luka, kawhi and kd are all better scorers when it matters. And to think people in here were mentioning him with mj :facepalm

[Gohan]

Yeah his regular season scoring stats are sweet but bron, luka, kawhi and kd are all better scorers when it matters. And to think people in here were mentioning him with mj :facepalm

Nah he’s better than Kawhi and luka at scoring. He had a rough matchup.

[Phoenix]

Nah he’s better than Kawhi and luka at scoring. He had a rough matchup.

You'd rely on Harden over Kawhi for scoring in a do or die game 7?

[Bronbron23]

Nah he’s better than Kawhi and luka at scoring. He had a rough matchup.

I disagree. In the regular season which isnt really basketball maybe. Deeper in the playoffs when it becomes more physical and teams and players are allowed to play real defense give me kawhi or luka all day. Especially kawhi

[tpols]

i mean... you're splitting hairs. So he's not as good as the all time playoff scoring leader in lebron or Kawhi Durant? Like... by that standard everybody outside like 15-20 players all time just sucked at scoring then I guess.

[jayfan]

Nah he’s better than Kawhi and luka at scoring. He had a rough matchup.


You're a good poster, but this is a terrible take. It ignores the fact the Harden pulls this shrinking disappearing act every single year.

Last night's shrinkage had nothing to do with Dort. It had to do with the pressure of an elimination game. And like always, it beat him. He was scared.

[BigtimeNBAFan]

Yeah he is pretty much consistently garbage in the playoffs. This is a big legacy defining series for Westbrook and Harden against LA. They need to show up and win.

[TheCorporation]

Modern ball is a very talented era. Imagine scoring 36 ppg and not even being top 5 in scoring

[r0drig0lac]

Nah he’s better than Kawhi and luka at scoring. He had a rough matchup.

lmao

[Gohan]

lmao

I said at scoring not as a player. I still think he is a better scorer

[Bronbron23]

You're a good poster, but this is a terrible take. It ignores the fact the Harden pulls this shrinking disappearing act every single year.

Last night's shrinkage had nothing to do with Dort. It had to do with the pressure of an elimination game. And like always, it beat him. He was scared.

Right but why does he shrink? Its not just the pressure which i agree is a factor. Its also because the physicality is up and defense are much tougher. He's not getting the looks and calls he's used to getting in the regular season. Against real defense he's just not as great of a scorer. Still great obviously. This is all relative of course.

[Bronbron23]

You're a good poster, but this is a terrible take. It ignores the fact the Harden pulls this shrinking disappearing act every single year.

Last night's shrinkage had nothing to do with Dort. It had to do with the pressure of an elimination game. And like always, it beat him. He was scared.

my bad i totally miss read your post lol

[red1]

harden aint shit



watch him get locked down by kuzma next round

[Roundball_Rock]

He averages 28.4 PPG in the playoffs for his prime (13'-present) on 57% TS. Guys on ISH get praised as great scorers for averaging much less in the playoffs.

[jayfan]

He averages 28.4 PPG in the playoffs for his prime (13'-present) on 57% TS. Guys on ISH get praised as great scorers for averaging much less in the playoffs.


And this, boys & girls, is how stats can be used to manufacture fake news.


.

[Roundball_Rock]

His average is his average. Facts are not "fake news." :lol

[Carbine]

Hardens biggest problem is his fluctuation in the playoffs. He is prone to flat out bad games.

Since 2013 he has played a total of 79 playoff games and I'd say 1/3 of his games have been borderline disaster territory with either awful shooting and/or extremely high turnovers.

He also played below expectation in 2012 playoffs.

[NBAGOAT]

bron and kawhi are pretty reliable in the playoffs but still is bron really better at scoring than harden right now? I dont think he is at this age.

kawhi turns it up in the playoffs but because of his health idk if he can do it for 20 straight games during the ps and ofc load manages more than any other star during the rs so he'll never be in the convo for best regular season scorer.

Luka had one very good playoff run, way too early to say he's definitely a better playoff scorer than harden. his stepback is still a level below harden's. his passing is already better tbf.

KD had harden level efficiency dropoffs in okc while he was great in gs but that was a pretty unique situation. I'm curious how he does in bkn with great offensive help but not a cast on the level of gs. His achilles is also a huge factor so it might just be meaningless legacy wise if kds not the same

[imdaman99]

He has a dropoff from his regular season numbers but it's still great numbers. The problem is some of his worst games have been well documented. He doesn't get any love when he takes over a game. Hoping last night when he did 'whatever it takes' to win by blocking that shot and clinching the series will ease the pressure.

[Carbine]

Harden was bad last night overall, even though he did have a great play at the end.

[SouBeachTalents]

He averages 28.4 PPG in the playoffs for his prime (13'-present) on 57% TS. Guys on ISH get praised as great scorers for averaging much less in the playoffs.
The guy consistently gets worse the further he goes in the playoffs and the higher the stakes get. This is now his 3rd complete dud with his teams season on the line ('15 & '17), only this time he was fortunate enough to get the W (props on his block though)

[PETRO2222]

To be honest I really dislike Harden.

I think of his game this: he is PATHETIC.

Yeah, I know... strong words.

But I have nothin to say about player who knows how to do 2 THINGS: Attack the rim with layups and shoot threes (because of shitty defence today).

That's not some mega star to me.

He doesn't know how to post up, HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO ****ING POST UP OR PLAY WITH HIS BACK TO THE RIM, pathetic!

I dont care if someone says to me; he didnt pattern his game that way, EVERYONE KNEW HOW TO ****ING DO THAT IN OLD SCHOOL BASKETBALL IN 90's and early 2000's.

Harden WOULD BE EATEN ALIVE BY JORDAN or any good defensive player durin 90's, EATEN ALIVE to the point where he wouldn't be able to even see three point line let alone shoot it.

James Harden is a symbol of the MOST INFERIOR NBA ERA IN HISTORY NBA.

I spit on his entire game, yeah.

I just cannot stand that guy, he makes me sick.

He should learn somethin, at least somethin from Kawhi Leonard (the only player I respect from today's NBA), but I doubt he would learn anything, shit player he would be destroyed on 100 small pieces by 90's defence, he would be destroyed by Kawhi defence if only Kawhi would be allowed to PLAY DEFENCE in 90's style.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

bron and kawhi are pretty reliable in the playoffs but still is bron really better at scoring than harden right now? I dont think he is at this age.

kawhi turns it up in the playoffs but because of his health idk if he can do it for 20 straight games during the ps and ofc load manages more than any other star during the rs so he'll never be in the convo for best regular season scorer.

Luka had one very good playoff run, way too early to say he's definitely a better playoff scorer than harden. his stepback is still a level below harden's. his passing is already better tbf.

KD had harden level efficiency dropoffs in okc while he was great in gs but that was a pretty unique situation. I'm curious how he does in bkn with great offensive help but not a cast on the level of gs. His achilles is also a huge factor so it might just be meaningless legacy wise if kds not the same

Huh? Kawhi just did it for 20+ games in playoffs last year and this year he looks even better. Harden's the one who can't do it for 20+ games in playoffs because his mental health.

[NBAGOAT]

Huh? Kawhi just did it for 20+ games in playoffs last year and this year he looks even better. Harden's the one who can't do it for 20+ games in playoffs because his mental health.

well kawhi fell off a bit after the philly series. Yea he was great in the first round but we'll see if keeps up 33 for the whole playoffs

[Bronbron23]

He averages 28.4 PPG in the playoffs for his prime (13'-present) on 57% TS. Guys on ISH get praised as great scorers for averaging much less in the playoffs.
True shooting isn't a great measure of how efficient someone is. It takes foul shooting into account so you can bad from the field but have good true shooting if your efficient from the line.

Harden just hasn't been the as good in the playoffs. Heres his efficiency from the fiel from the years you highlighted:

2013: fg 39% 3pt 34%
2014: fg 38% 3pt 30%
2015: fg 44% 3pt 39%
2016: fg 41% 3pt 31%
2017: fg 41% 3pt 28%
2018: fg 41% 3pt 30%
2019: fg 41% 3pt 35%

Thats pretty mediocre. You could put almost any star in a D'antoni ball dominant system and they'll put up 25-28 on that kind of efficiency. Not to add on top of this harden has had some all time choke jobs in big elimination games.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

well kawhi fell off a bit after the philly series. Yea he was great in the first round but we'll see if keeps up 33 for the whole playoffs

Major bullshit, kawhi didn't have 1 bad series. 732 points on 62% TS is falling off. Your expectations for him must be higher then any player in NBA history. Look at how garbage raptors offense is in playoffs without Kawhi.

[ZenMaster7210]

:applause:

[ZenMaster7210]

To be honest I really dislike Harden.

I think of his game this: he is PATHETIC.

Yeah, I know... strong words.

But I have nothin to say about player who knows how to do 2 THINGS: Attack the rim with layups and shoot threes (because of shitty defence today).

That's not some mega star to me.

He doesn't know how to post up, HE DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO ****ING POST UP OR PLAY WITH HIS BACK TO THE RIM, pathetic!

I dont care if someone says to me; he didnt pattern his game that way, EVERYONE KNEW HOW TO ****ING DO THAT IN OLD SCHOOL BASKETBALL IN 90's and early 2000's.

Harden WOULD BE EATEN ALIVE BY JORDAN or any good defensive player durin 90's, EATEN ALIVE to the point where he wouldn't be able to even see three point line let alone shoot it.

James Harden is a symbol of the MOST INFERIOR NBA ERA IN HISTORY NBA.

I spit on his entire game, yeah.

I just cannot stand that guy, he makes me sick.

He should learn somethin, at least somethin from Kawhi Leonard (the only player I respect from today's NBA), but I doubt he would learn anything, shit player he would be destroyed on 100 small pieces by 90's defence, he would be destroyed by Kawhi defence if only Kawhi would be allowed to PLAY DEFENCE in 90's style.

:applause:

[Phoenix]

Hardens biggest problem is his fluctuation in the playoffs. He is prone to flat out bad games.

Since 2013 he has played a total of 79 playoff games and I'd say 1/3 of his games have been borderline disaster territory with either awful shooting and/or extremely high turnovers.

He also played below expectation in 2012 playoffs.

Said this before but having an elite in-between game still matters especially in the playoffs. The 3 pointer is prone to end of season tired legs and a good defensive team can wall off the basket limiting penetration. It's why Kawhi's offense is far more consistent and actually rises to the occasion this time of year.

[Roundball_Rock]

The guy consistently gets worse the further he goes in the playoffs and the higher the stakes get. This is now his 3rd complete dud with his teams season on the line ('15 & '17), only this time he was fortunate enough to get the W (props on his block though)

Fair points but the discussion of him makes it sound as if his scoring goes down dramatically--when in reality the prime gap is 29.6 PPG in the RS and 28.4 PPG in the PO. His efficiency does dip from 61% TS to 57% TS, though. There is an issue with his PO performances historically but the perception of it is exaggerated relative to the reality.


True shooting isn't a great measure of how efficient someone is. It takes foul shooting into account so you can bad from the field but have good true shooting if your efficient from the line.

I generally agree. I prefer using eFG %, TS % and FG % to get the full context but I tend to use TS % in posts because that is the accepted standard for 80-90% of ISH it seems. I used to use eFG % and was crucified for it. :oldlol:


Harden just hasn't been the as good in the playoffs. Heres his efficiency from the fiel from the years you highlighted:

2013: fg 39% 3pt 34%
2014: fg 38% 3pt 30%
2015: fg 44% 3pt 39%
2016: fg 41% 3pt 31%
2017: fg 41% 3pt 28%
2018: fg 41% 3pt 30%
2019: fg 41% 3pt 35%

Thats pretty mediocre

His prime FG % is 44% in the RS, 42% the PO. Some decrease is logical: PO teams=better defenses, deep PO teams=generally the best defenses.
His prime eFG % is 53% in the RS, 49% in the PO. This is a notable decline. It would have to be judged against the eFG % of his SG peers to properly value it.

A majority of his shots in recent years are threes (506 3PA and 503 2PA in the playoffs since 2016) so looking strictly at FG % doesn't work either.

The bottom line is if you compare his PO efficiency to SG's of his era--Wade, Klay, DeRozan, etc. he comes out fine, at least in terms of TS %. It is hard to compare FG % straight up since Wade, DeRozan rarely took 3's while Harden is on the other extreme in 3PA volume.

[HylianNightmare]

Kds hurt