Pippen is most underrated ever

[Nike D'Antoni]

Its like you want to trash a player, say he is Pippen.
But Pippen was ****ing good.

[Roundball_Rock]

Amen. :applause:

[ImKobe]

Most overrated ever. 6 title runs and he was NEVER the best player/leading scorer in any of those series?

[SouBeachTalents]

Most overrated ever. 6 title runs and he was NEVER the best player/leading scorer in any of those series?
Tbf though how many players would be that playing with Jordan

[ImKobe]

Tbf though how many players would be that playing with Jordan

I'm fine with him being a top 40 all-time player, but it's insane to think that he was never the leading scorer or FMVP, yet for whatever reason we got a bunch of "Pippen stans" claiming that he was a top 5 player of the 90s & was better than Giannis is now.

[Roundball_Rock]

There you go again, SouthBeach, getting their agendas (this time with mini-1-9ball) crossed up. :lol MJ is da GOAT but a scrub is expected to outplay him across playoff series? It also ignores that he arguably was better in the 93' ECF (Sports Illustrated thought so at the time) and in the 98' finals before he got hurt (front runner for FMVP through 4 games) and in the 97' playoffs there was talk about Pippen arguably being the Bulls' playoff MVP into June (Marv Albert, Sports Illustrated as examples). Of course MJ stans like mini-1-9ball live in fact free zones so none of this ever happened, even though all this information is available via an easy Google search or actually watching some Bulls games.

A classic is Pippen supposedly is a bum while Malone and Barkley were flawless giants who MJ slayed en route to super tough rangz. Pippen was ahead of Barkley in all-NBA the very next year after Barkley was in the finals. He was ahead of Malone the year before Malone was in the finals. All three players were in their primes in these particular years. If those guys are so great then how was a bum ahead of them in voting for forwards? :lol Ahead of prime Malone, prime Barkley. Not a top 5 player, doe!

As we discussed in the other thread, we know if it was one of them on the Bulls and Pippen on the Suns or Jazz we would be hearing a completely different tune...

In terms of value, it is easy to determine how the Bulls would look with either player removed because we saw it. MJ stans can't handle the inconvenient facts of the 94' and 98' samples with one of the superstars removed. The teams were basically the same (58 win pace with Pippen/without MJ in 94', 56 win pace with MJ/without Pippen in 98'), the difference being the the 98' team fell off a lot more from a higher 97' level (69 wins) than what the 93' level (57 wins) was. MJ stains obsess about scoring but fail to process the Bulls offense sputtered without Pippen around. A basket from Pippen or from Kerr being set up by Pippen counts the same on the scoreboard.

[Roundball_Rock]

The NBA doesn't publish top 5, top 10, top 15 player lists but all-NBA is the closest to that we have. It isn't perfect because it is based on forwards, guards, centers and because a player could be top 5 but lose votes due to missing time due to injury but it provides some value, especially when comparing players who are both forwards, both guards, or both centers.

If Malone and Barkley were top 5 and Pippen was ahead of them (from 94' on for Barkley and 94', 96' for Malone), basic logic says therefore Pippen also was top 5. It wasn't a debate that he was top 5 at points in the 90's. If ISH existed in his peak years he would be considered top 5 the same way someone like Harden has been in recent years.

Top 5 for the decade as a whole? MJ, Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, Robinson are pretty much the consensus top 5 for the decade outside of insecure MJ stans. Pippen has the strongest claim to be 6th in the tier behind them that includes Ewing, Payton, and Drexler. We see MJ stans rave about how good Ewing, Payton, and Drexler were while always saying how bad Pippen was. IMKobe's boss 1-9ball was hours ago saying Payton>CP3 and Drexler>Kawhi. Yet Pippen accomplished more than them in the same era while sucking?

[r0drig0lac]

I'm fine with him being a top 40 all-time player, but it's insane to think that he was never the leading scorer or FMVP, yet for whatever reason we got a bunch of "Pippen stans" claiming that he was a top 5 player of the 90s & was better than Giannis is now.

top 7 with MJ, Akeem, DRob, Barkley, Malone and Shaq, good enough

[Marchesk]

Giannis would have won with Bulls in 94.

[3ball]

top 7 with MJ, Akeem, DRob, Barkley, Malone and Shaq, good enough

Pippen was a Michael Finley level player

Nowhere near Derrick Coleman, Kemp, Penny, Hill, Drexler, and many more

The triangle and MJ propped him up.. he was nothing without them

[ImKobe]

top 7 with MJ, Akeem, DRob, Barkley, Malone and Shaq, good enough

Top 10, you can make some case for him, but some people here put Pippen over D-Rob/Barkley/Malone/Shaq/Stockton in the 90s, it's blasphemous. He's a top 3-5 most-known player from that era because he played with Jordan & thus got more coverage than other players in the league, since the Bulls were by far the biggest draw in the league at the time & their games were broadcasted everywhere & you didn't have the ability to watch any game live or search for highlights on Youtube. We rarely heard any of this bullshit before The Last Dance.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The NBA doesn't publish top 5, top 10, top 15 player lists but all-NBA is the closest to that we have. It isn't perfect because it is based on forwards, guards, centers and because a player could be top 5 but lose votes due to missing time due to injury but it provides some value, especially when comparing players who are both forwards, both guards, or both centers.

If Malone and Barkley were top 5 and Pippen was ahead of them (from 94' on for Barkley and 94', 96' for Malone), basic logic says therefore Pippen also was top 5. It wasn't a debate that he was top 5 at points in the 90's. If ISH existed in his peak years he would be considered top 5 the same way someone like Harden has been in recent years.

Top 5 for the decade as a whole? MJ, Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, Robinson are pretty much the consensus top 5 for the decade outside of insecure MJ stans. Pippen has the strongest claim to be 6th in the tier behind them that includes Ewing, Payton, and Drexler. We see MJ stans rave about how good Ewing, Payton, and Drexler were while always saying how bad Pippen was. IMKobe's boss 1-9ball was hours ago saying Payton>CP3 and Drexler>Kawhi. Yet Pippen accomplished more than them in the same era while sucking?


Pippen was a Michael Finley level player

Nowhere near Derrick Coleman, Kemp, Penny, Hill, Drexler, and many more

The triangle and MJ propped him up.. he was nothing without them

3ball is striking out hard here and making every Jordan fan look like a drunk that chugs shots of vodka all day? No other theory how you could come to these jawdropping conclusions.

[SouBeachTalents]

3ball is striking out hard here and making every Jordan fan look like a drunk that chugs shots of vodka all day? No other theory how you could come to these jawdropping conclusions.
You forgot to bold "nowhere near" Derrick Coleman :oldlol:

[Gohan]

He’s no worse than lebron stans trying to downplay Jordan’s rings

[3ball]

Derrick Coleman was much better

Anyone that says otherwise is either lying or doesn't know anything about basketball

Chris Bosh was better

Kemp completely destroyed Pippen in the 96 Finals

Smits outplayed him in the 98' ECF - pippen's poor play caused the series to go 7.. only Pippen played poorly - no one else... Ditto the 92' ECF when Pippen's poor play caused a 7 game series

Pippen never averaged over 22 ppg in any playoff series, except a 1st round series

Pippen averaged 17.6 on 40.8% for the entire 2nd three-peat playoffs (96-98')... What if AD or Kyrie did that?... Kyrie averaged 26 on 47% in the 16' and 17' playoffs, while AD is among the most dominant ever (36 PER in 20' Playoffs)

[ImKobe]

3ball is striking out hard here and making every Jordan fan look like a drunk that chugs shots of vodka all day? No other theory how you could come to these jawdropping conclusions.

Michael Finley and Pippen both have 6 30+ pt games in the Playoffs for their career. Pippen played 79 more Playoff games.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

You forgot to bold "nowhere near" Derrick Coleman :oldlol:

Drexler is closer to Jamal Murray then he is Kawhi Leonard. 2nd fiddle with non elite defense.

[3ball]

Derrick Coleman was much better

Anyone that says otherwise is either lying or doesn't know anything about basketball

Chris Bosh was better

Kemp completely destroyed Pippen in the 96 Finals

Smits outplayed him in the 98' ECF - pippen's poor play caused the series to go 7.. only Pippen played poorly - no one else... Ditto the 92' ECF when Pippen's poor play caused a 7 game series

Pippen never averaged over 22 ppg in any playoff series, except a 1st round series

Pippen averaged 17.6 on 40.8% for the entire 2nd three-peat playoffs (96-98')... What if AD or Kyrie did that?... Kyrie averaged 26 on 47% in the 16' and 17' playoffs, while AD is among the most dominant ever (36 PER in 20' Playoffs)




Drexler is closer to Jamal Murray then he is Kawhi Leonard. 2nd fiddle with non elite defense.

Drexler basically matches Pippen in steals and blocks, but had better team defenses despite less defensive help..

so he's an underrated defender that would've been all-defense every year alongside mj and getting the exposure that pippen got.. the winning spotlight inflated Pippen, even though his statistical contribution was weak

And Drexler led 2 teams to the Finals, while averaging 26/8/5 in those Finals against MJ, Rodman, Pippen, Dumars

[Roundball_Rock]

3ball is striking out hard here and making every Jordan fan look like a drunk that chugs shots of vodka all day? No other theory how you could come to these jawdropping conclusions.

:lol

It is hard to take it seriously since we know if Pippen played on literally any other team we know 1-9ball, IMKobe, et al. would be praising Pippen like the do with comparable legends like Ewing, Drexler, Payton from the same era.


Drexler is closer to Jamal Murray then he is Kawhi Leonard. 2nd fiddle with non elite defense.

1-9ball makes a lot of ridiculous claims but that Drexler>Kawhi has to be top 5 on his list.

It is funny how he praises Drexler, Payton who played in the same era and had overlapping primes with Pippen yet the consensus (outside of MJ stans) is Pippen was the best perimeter player of the era after MJ.

[3ball]

:lol

It is hard to take it seriously since we know if Pippen played on literally any other team we know 1-9ball, IMKobe, et al. would be praising Pippen like the do with comparable legends like Ewing, Drexler, Payton from the same era.



1-9ball makes a lot of ridiculous claims but that Drexler>Kawhi has to be top 5 on his list.

It is funny how he praises Drexler, Payton who played in the same era and had overlapping primes with Pippen yet the consensus (outside of MJ stans) is Pippen was the best perimeter player of the era after MJ.

A top 30 player should still be REALLY GOOD at 33.. but Pippen was horrible

Pippen was nothing in Houston - that"s our proof - he was still 33, and younger than fossils Hakeem and Barkley - yet he was instantly demoted to 3rd option behind those guys.. and he completely sucked - exposed without MJ and the bosum of the triangle

Btw, Pippen was never the 2nd best perimeter player of the 90's.. that's preposterous.. Payton was a better scorer, passer and defender.. Penny and Hill were compared to Jordan and considered MUCH better.. tim Hardaway, rod Strickland were better.. tons of guys... Glenn Robinson was better... Too many guys to name

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Drexler basically matches Pippen in steals and blocks, but had better team defenses despite less defensive help..

so he's an underrated defender that would've been all-defense every year alongside mj and getting the exposure that pippen got.. the winning spotlight inflated Pippen, even though his statistical contribution was weak

And Drexler led 2 teams to the Finals, while averaging 26/8/5 in those Finals against MJ, Rodman, Pippen, Dumars

1992 finals drexler had a .3 higher GmSc over Pippen on worse TS and with significantly worse defense. He got outplayed by Pippen and Jordan was insulted by being compared to him. I dont see the hype on Drexler. 1995 finals he did well but had no pressure with it being a sweep and Robert Horry nearly outplaying him. Rest of his career, nobody remembers anything about it.

[3ball]

1992 finals drexler had a .3 higher GmSc over Pippen on worse TS and with significantly worse defense. He got outplayed by Pippen and Jordan was insulted by being compared to him. I dont see the hype on Drexler. 1995 finals he did well but had no pressure with it being a sweep and Robert Horry nearly outplaying him. Rest of his career, nobody remembers anything about it.

Pippen was wide open his entire career by playing next to the goat scorer who attracted attention.. the defense never worried about Pippen.... EVER... .he was literally forgotten most games... Fans, players and coaches would forget he's out there

Pippen averaged 15 on 34% against Schrempf.... Drexler averaged 26/8/5 against the best perimeter defenders ever (MJ, Rodman)

There's no comparison

[Roundball_Rock]

1992 finals drexler had a .3 higher GmSc over Pippen on worse TS and with significantly worse defense. He got outplayed by Pippen and Jordan was insulted by being compared to him. I dont see the hype on Drexler. 1995 finals he did well but had no pressure with it being a sweep and Robert Horry nearly outplaying him. Rest of his career, nobody remembers anything about it.

The hype on Drexler is MJ stans hyping him for agenda purposes. No one talks about Drexler outside of MJ stans using him as a tool to 1) hype the 92' finals 2) diminish Pippen.

In the same era with overlapping primes, Pippen made 3 all-NBA first teams and Drexler only 1 (if a scrub like Pippen did it 3x in the same era, what does that say about Drexler?). As noted before, if Drexler was on the Bulls and Pippen on the Blazers we all know they would be telling us daily how much Drexler sucked and how great Pippen was and how hard it was for MJ to singlehandedly beat the Blazers because the awesome Pippen was on that team, etc.

These guys have no actual beliefs. Evidence of this is 1-9ball having LeBron go from 11th to 1st and back to 11th all-time within days. :lol Never forget:

https://i.ibb.co/KG6Vk7q/CE74-A1-DB-94-A3-484-C-A157-18-E1-CBB58298.jpg

[ImKobe]

1992 finals drexler had a .3 higher GmSc over Pippen on worse TS and with significantly worse defense. He got outplayed by Pippen and Jordan was insulted by being compared to him. I dont see the hype on Drexler. 1995 finals he did well but had no pressure with it being a sweep and Robert Horry nearly outplaying him. Rest of his career, nobody remembers anything about it.

Drexler was the main focus of the best perimeter defense in the league, Jordan murdered the Blazers & Pippen was a 2nd option, series went 6 and Drexler was better than Pippen statistically in 4 out of the 6 games. Drexler had 32 on 71.8%TS and still lost Game 3 despite Pippen's 18 points on 48.6%TS & MJ's 26 on 54.7%TS. Bulls won another game where Pippen had 16 points & 3 ast to 6 TOs on 37%TS vs Clyde's 26 points 8 ast w/ 0 TOs 53.3%TS. It's not like Pippen really outplayed Drexler in the series overall, he just was more efficient as a 2nd option in the GOAT scorer's shadow.

[3ball]

The hype on Drexler is MJ stans hyping him for agenda purposes. No one talks about Drexler outside of MJ stans using him as a tool to 1) hype the 92' finals 2) diminish Pippen.

In the same era with overlapping primes, Pippen made 3 all-NBA first teams and Drexler only 1. As noted before, if Drexler was on the Bulls and Pippen on the Blazers we all know they would be telling us daily how much Drexler sucked and how great Pippen was and how hard it was for MJ to singlehandedly beat the Blazers because the awesome Pippen was on that team, etc.

These guys have no actual beliefs. Evidence of this is 1-9ball having LeBron go from 11th to 1st and back to 11th all-time within days. :lol

The entire argument is that pippen didn't deserve the accolades

Yet you're arguing that he's good because of accolades... :hammerhead:

You can't argue anything about his game (aka he was a good shooter or creator), or his performance (he took over such-and-such a game)... So you can only point to unearned accolades, the very thing we're disputing...

The reality is that pippen never had fans... Only recently, a few lebron fans claim to be his fans... But it's a lie... Pippen had no fans in the 90's... People often forgot he was on the court... That's what happens to guys that average 16/5/5 on terrible efficiency

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Michael Finley and Pippen both have 6 30+ pt games in the Playoffs for their career. Pippen played 79 more Playoff games.

But Finley is legit the worst defender I've ever seen. You literally throw stuff at the TV watching him on defense.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Drexler was the main focus of the best perimeter defense in the league, Jordan murdered the Blazers & Pippen was a 2nd option, series went 6 and Drexler was better than Pippen statistically in 4 out of the 6 games. Drexler had 32 on 71.8%TS and still lost Game 3 despite Pippen's 18 points on 48.6%TS & MJ's 26 on 54.7%TS. Bulls won another game where Pippen had 16 points & 3 ast to 6 TOs on 37%TS vs Clyde's 26 points 8 ast w/ 0 TOs 53.3%TS. It's not like Pippen really outplayed Drexler in the series overall, he just was more efficient as a 2nd option in the GOAT scorer's shadow.

Clyde could barely put a better GmSc then Pippen in the finals, so what makes us think Drexler had any chance against Jordan? That's my point. Jordan certainly didn't think Drexler had a chance, he admitted it in last dance.

[Roundball_Rock]

Clyde could barely pull put a better GmSc then Pippen in the finals, so what makes us think Drexler had any chance against Jordan? That's my point. Jordan certainly didn't think Drexler had a chance, he admitted it in last dance.

No one thinks Drexler>Pippen other than MJ stans and we know this isn't based on any logic or beliefs, just an agenda because they are insecure MJ couldn't win without his best teammate like other legends.

Drexler was traded in 95' for Otis Thorpe and a 9.6 MPG player, Pippen was in trade talks during the same time frame. They weren't even close in the trade value they commanded respectively--both were in their primes too (Drexler 3 years older, though). Neither were guys like Tim Hardaway, Alonzo Mourning in the same time frame. As to Payton, Seattle wanted Pippen there to be their #1 and Payton the "sidekick." The GM thought Pippen was nearly as good as MJ (his words, on the record...). Dishonest MJ stans won't even acknowledge that the GM said this.

Pippen was viewed as a tier or two above these players circa 95' and 96' in the eyes of other teams (i.e., people paid to win basketball games--not stans on the internet insecure over 1-9 a quarter century later).

It is funny how they use the strength of the Bulls' defense as an excuse for players they are propping up for agenda purposes--who was the spearhead of those Bulls defenses again? :lol

Jordan won nothing without Pippen. That is a historical fact. The funny thing? No one cares, outside of some LeBron fans meming it. 75-80% of people still have MJ as GOAT. MJ himself doesn't care that he never won without Pippen. If he did, he wouldn't demanded Pippen be by his side forever in Chicago.

[3ball]

But Finley is legit the worst defender I've ever seen. You literally throw stuff at the TV watching him on defense.

Complete bullshit lies

Finley was known as a solid defender... Would've been all-defense alongside mj

Otoh, the 98' Bulls had the #1 defense without Pippen (when pip was hurt the first half of the season) - they simply had a great SYSTEM - the individual players didn't impact it much..

Heck, the bulls only had the #7 team defense during the 1st three-peat... Drexler and Ron Harper led better team defenses despite less defensive help

So pippen's team defense is overrated, and he sucked individually - everyone got their normal averages on him, or outplayed him.. he has no signature series where he locked someone down as the primary defender

[ImKobe]

Clyde could barely pull put a better GmSc then Pippen in the finals, so what makes us think Drexler had any chance against Jordan? That's my point. Jordan certainly didn't think Drexler had a chance, he admitted it in last dance.

So, what you're saying is that Drexler averaged more points and had the better GameScore. Got it. The series still went 6 games. Of course Clyde is no match for the GOAT, but he led multiple teams to the Finals and his heroics against the Jazz in the '95 WC 1st round in the two elimination games is the reason he has a ring and why Hakeem won B2B. He didn't have better help than Jordan in the '92 Finals, he played well in most of the games but underperformed in Game 1 & Game 6. Doesn't mean Pippen's better as a player. We saw him average 16.5 ppg on sub-par efficiency in B2B elimination games against the Knicks w/ Ewing outplaying him in the series and winning, despite Pippen's 2nd & 3rd options being insanely efficient in the series. He wasn't as good of a scorer as Clyde & we saw it when he wasn't playing in Jordan's shadow.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Drexler basically matches Pippen in steals and blocks, but had better team defenses despite less defensive help..

so he's an underrated defender that would've been all-defense every year alongside mj and getting the exposure that pippen got.. the winning spotlight inflated Pippen, even though his statistical contribution was weak

And Drexler led 2 teams to the Finals, while averaging 26/8/5 in those Finals against MJ, Rodman, Pippen, Dumars

1990-1992 Clyde Drexler played 58 games, made 2 finals and had a TS of 53.7

3peat Pippen TS was at 53.6

So you're making this huge fuss about a .1 gap in TS

[Roundball_Rock]

Doesn't IMKobe get tired of being 1-9ball's beta? :confusedshrug:


1990-1992 Clyde Drexler played 58 games, made 2 finals and had a TS of 53.7

3peat Pippen TS was at 53.6

So you're making this huge fuss about a .1 gap in TS

Pippen played in the East too, which is where the best defenses tended to be.

[3ball]

Drexler was the main focus of the best perimeter defense in the league & Pippen was a 2nd option in the GOAT scorer's shadow.



Exaxtly

Pippen was wide open his entire career by playing next to the goat scorer who attracted attention.. the defense never worried about Pippen.... EVER... .he was literally forgotten most games... Fans, players and coaches would forget he's out there

Pippen averaged 15 on 34% against Schrempf.... Drexler averaged 26/8/5

[HBK_Kliq_2]

So, what you're saying is that Drexler averaged more points and had the better GameScore. Got it. The series still went 6 games. Of course Clyde is no match for the GOAT, but he led multiple teams to the Finals and his heroics against the Jazz in the '95 WC 1st round in the two elimination games is the reason he has a ring and why Hakeem won B2B. He didn't have better help than Jordan in the '92 Finals, he played well in most of the games but underperformed in Game 1 & Game 6. Doesn't mean Pippen's better as a player. We saw him average 16.5 ppg on sub-par efficiency in B2B elimination games against the Knicks w/ Ewing outplaying him in the series and winning, despite Pippen's 2nd & 3rd options being insanely efficient in the series. He wasn't as good of a scorer as Clyde & we saw it when he wasn't playing in Jordan's shadow.

Put it in these terms. LeBron is the Drexler of the Lakers. So if Clippers play Lakers and LeBron has a .3 GmSc higher then Paul George for the series? Clippers would win easy. That's what Clyde "I look like a construction worker" Drexler did.

[ImKobe]

Exaxtly

Pippen was wide open his entire career by playing next to the goat scorer who attracted attention.. the defense never worried about Pippen.... EVER... .he was literally forgotten most games... Fans, players and coaches would forget he's out there

Pippen averaged 15 on 34% against Schrempf.... Drexler averaged 26/8/5

Drexler as a 2nd option averaged 20.5 ppg on 58.7%TS for a title run w/ 22/10/7 on 56%TS in the Finals. He was 32 at that point. Pippen at 32 averaged 16.8 ppg on 50%TS for his title run w/ 16/7/5 on 50.2%TS in the Finals.

[Gohan]

Derrick Coleman was much better

Anyone that says otherwise is either lying or doesn't know anything about basketball

Chris Bosh was better

Kemp completely destroyed Pippen in the 96 Finals

Smits outplayed him in the 98' ECF - pippen's poor play caused the series to go 7.. only Pippen played poorly - no one else... Ditto the 92' ECF when Pippen's poor play caused a 7 game series

Pippen never averaged over 22 ppg in any playoff series, except a 1st round series

Pippen averaged 17.6 on 40.8% for the entire 2nd three-peat playoffs (96-98')... What if AD or Kyrie did that?... Kyrie averaged 26 on 47% in the 16' and 17' playoffs, while AD is among the most dominant ever (36 PER in 20' Playoffs)





Iverson is the most underrated player ever not pippen

[Roundball_Rock]

Pippen in 98' was as old as Drexler in 95'. We know going in the 98' season the Celtics offered the #3 and #6 picks plus a veteran player for Pippen. The Bulls intended to use those picks on T Mac and Keith Van Horn. That is hardly getting Otis Thorpe and a non-rotation player back...

Of course this didn't happen. MJ veteod the deal, knowing he needed Pippen.


Put it in these terms. LeBron is the Drexler of the Lakers. So if Clippers play Lakers and LeBron has a .3 GmSc higher then Paul George for the series? Clippers would win easy.

Yup, and we know GMSC doesn't capture defense, etc. There is a reason Pippen is top 20-30 AT and Drexler top 40-50 AT.

Don't forget the 4th quarter of Game 6. Pippen led the Bulls back from down 15 with four bench players (and scored the go ahead field goal late in the game when MJ returned). Pippen had 11 or 13 fourth quarter points and created opportunities for teammates as well (getting doubled and triple teamed) along with the usual defense. Where was Drexler?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Pippen in 98' was as old as Drexler in 95'. We know going in the 98' season the Celtics offered the #3 and #6 picks plus a veteran player for Pippen. The Bulls intended to use those picks on T Mac and Keith Van Horn. That is hardly getting Otis Thorpe and a non-rotation player back...

Of course this didn't happen. MJ veteod the deal, knowing he needed Pippen.



Yup, and we know GMSC doesn't capture defense, etc. There is a reason Pippen is top 20-30 AT and Drexler top 40-50 AT.

Don't forget the 4th quarter of Game 6. Pippen led the Bulls back from down 15 with four bench players (and scored the go ahead field goal late in the game when MJ returned). Pippen had 11 or 13 fourth quarter points and created opportunities for teammates as well (getting doubled and triple teamed) along with the usual defense. Where was Drexler?

Also Pippen had the wear and tear of more playoff games played then Drexler, so you can't just compare ages.
Longevity, Pippen was still arguably best player on a game 7 WCF team. I don't remember Drexler doing anything significant after 1995.

[bizil]

Here's the thing about Pippen... He had a phenomenal floor game. He combined passing, rebounding, and defense at a tremendous level. Among the top 3 ever for SF's in my opinion. Up there with Bron and Hondo. BUT Bron and Hondo were ALPHA DOG SCORERS on top of it. You have SG's like MJ, Kobe, West, D Wade, etc. as well. From there, u have perimeter players who were/are alpha dogs AND triple double threats in one package. Like Bron, Bird, Magic, Big O, Russ, Harden, etc.

So my point is you have legends who had SICK BLENDS of scoring ability AND all around ability! Is you gave Bird SIX RINGS, he would still be hands down the GOAT SF! But Pip with six rings is NEVER REGARDED as the GOAT SF. The reason why is your peak-prime value FACTORS into GOAT status. And peak-prime wise, I'm NOT SURE Pip is a top 10 SF ever. Bird on the other hand is a top 2 SF ever peak-prime wise. That's why Bird with 6 is the GOAT SF. And top 2-3 GOAT AMONG EVERYBODY!!! So NO Pip isn't underrated. He's a top 6-8 SF GOAT wise. And a top 30-40 GOAT wise! That's the right level for Pip!!

For guys who were superstars, Nique, English, and McAdoo are underrated. English scored MORE POINTS than anybody in the 1980's! Among SF's, ONLY BRON has scored more career points than Nique. McAdoo was three times scoring champ, MVP, and was WAY AHEAD of his time in terms of being a stretch PF-C. He was the precursor to Dirk. Yet these three don't get the props they deserve. None were on the the top 50 players of all time list! For guys who weren't superstar type guys BUT All Star caliber for several years how about Rod Strickland. CLEARLY an All Star level talent YET never made one All Star Game!

[Roundball_Rock]

Also Pippen had the wear and tear of more playoff games played then Drexler, so you can't just compare ages.
Longevity, Pippen was still arguably best player on a game 7 WCF team. I don't remember Drexler doing anything significant after 1995.

Yup, good points. Plus, Pippen played in two Olympics versus Drexler's one. Keep in mind Pippen was in the "no brainer" selection category (according to the people who assembled the team, as has been amply reported) while Drexler was not in the first, second, or even third tier of selections. He was the final pick, as it came down to him and Isiah and was selected many months after the original 10. That tells you how the Olympic Committee and Chuck Daly evaluated the two players circa that time--and keep in mind this is peak Drexler and pre-peak Pippen.

It is revealing we get all these dissections about Pippen but nothing of the sort for whatever player is being "compared" (read: propped up :lol ) to him. Pippen simply accomplished more on the basketball court than Drexler did, and they are perceived accordingly.

Ask yourself, why are MJ stans constantly praising and hyping every single 90's star without any iota of critique (presumably, all these players were flawless!)--except one? Is it a coincidence that "one" happened to be MJ's teammate? :lol

[ImKobe]

Pippen in 98' was as old as Drexler in 95'. We know going in the 98' season the Celtics offered the #3 and #6 picks plus a veteran player for Pippen. The Bulls intended to use those picks on T Mac and Keith Van Horn. That is hardly getting Otis Thorpe and a non-rotation player back...

Of course this didn't happen. MJ veteod the deal, knowing he needed Pippen.



Yup, and we know GMSC doesn't capture defense, etc. There is a reason Pippen is top 20-30 AT and Drexler top 40-50 AT.

Don't forget the 4th quarter of Game 6. Pippen led the Bulls back from down 15 with four bench players (and scored the go ahead field goal late in the game when MJ returned). Pippen had 11 or 13 fourth quarter points and created opportunities for teammates as well (getting doubled and triple teamed) along with the usual defense. Where was Drexler?

Bruh, they were going into the '98 season with the title "The Last Dance", **** would MJ care about picks/future superstars when he was going for his 2nd 3-Peat? Yes, a proven 2nd option in Pippen is better than a rookie T-Mac and whatever else they would have got in return for him, his contract was so small that they couldn't trade him for equal value in terms of winning right away if they wanted to.

Drexler purely as a player was better than Pippen, but Pippen gets more love because he was #2 on the most popular team in the 90s, that in turn elevates his stock tenfold.

Drexler had a bad game, so what? Pippen's underperformed plenty of times as the #1 option/best player on his team. He shat the bed against Ewing and he shat the bed against a 21 y.o Kobe.

[Smoke117]

Bruh, they were going into the '98 season with the title "The Last Dance", **** would MJ care about picks/future superstars when he was going for his 2nd 3-Peat? Yes, a proven 2nd option in Pippen is better than a rookie T-Mac and whatever else they would have got in return for him, his contract was so small that they couldn't trade him for equal value in terms of winning right away if they wanted to.

Drexler purely as a player was better than Pippen, but Pippen gets more love because he was #2 on the most popular team in the 90s, that in turn elevates his stock tenfold.

Drexler had a bad game, so what? Pippen's underperformed plenty of times as the #1 option/best player on his team. He shat the bed against Ewing and he shat the bed against a 21 y.o Kobe.

I doubt you even watched Pippen or Drexler when they were actually good. They are very similar offensive players with Drexler having the luxury of playing in much more up tempo offenses. Both all time great open court players, but one (Pippen) was playing in a slow down offense during his entire career basically. When you get to defense there is no question who is far better in that regard.

[Roundball_Rock]

I doubt you even watched Pippen or Drexler when they were actually good. They are very similar offensive players with Drexler having the luxury of playing in much more up tempo offenses. Both all time great open court players, but one (Pippen) was playing in a slow down offense during his entire career basically. When you get to defense there is no question who is far better in that regard.

Well put.

He didn't watch either play. IMKobe/mini1-9ball is the same guy who said Pippen was a poor finisher when Pippen was one of the best finishers ever, as anyone who actually watched him play knows.

Nor does he care--we know what this is about. If Pippen played for the 90's Blazers and Drexler the 90's Bulls they shamelessly would be saying the opposite about each player. :lol

[ImKobe]

Well put.

He didn't watch either play. IMKobe/mini1-9ball is the same guy who said Pippen was a poor finisher when Pippen was one of the best finishers ever, as anyone who actually watched him play knows.

Nor does he care--we know what this is about. If Pippen played for the 90's Blazers and Drexler the 90's Bulls they shamelessly would be saying the opposite about each player. :lol

Pippen was one of the best finishers ever? Better than Drexler?

Let me guess, he was also a better playmaker than Stockton & a better rebounder than Charles Barkley. It never ends with delusional Lebronsexuals like you.

[Smoke117]

Pippen was one of the best finishers ever? Better than Drexler?

Let me guess, he was also a better playmaker than Stockton & a better rebounder than Charles Barkley. It never ends with delusional Lebronsexuals like you.

Uh...Pippen is definitely one of the best finishers ever. That's never been disputed by anybody...but you apparently:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8_GiznzWbk

You'd have to be an idiot to think this guy wasn't one of the best finishers ever. The only Pippen your clown ass ever watched was the past his prime and nearly broken down Blazer one.

[Roundball_Rock]

Uh...Pippen is definitely one of the best finishers ever. That's never been disputed by anybody...but you apparently:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8_GiznzWbk

You'd have to be an idiot to think this guy wasn't one of the best finishers ever. The only Pippen your clown ass ever watched was the past his prime and nearly broken down Blazer one.

Yup. He is crazy.

The difference between Pippen and Drexler is evidenced in how their teams did without them. Drexler missed significant time in 93' and 94'--Portland did exactly the same without him. Drexler was traded in 95'. Portland did the same: lose in the first round as a 7 seed. When Hakeem was out, Drexler had the NBA champs at 3-7 (Pippen had the Bulls at 51-21 in 94' without MJ). When Drexler left Houston, Houston got better (from 41-41 to 31-19, equal to a 51 win team over a full season)--ironically with past his prime Pippen replacing him.

Pippen? The Bulls and Blazers declined by a double digit win pace in 89', 94' (-25 in that case), 98', 02', and 03'. The only outlier is 01'. When Pippen left Houston and Portland both teams went from strong playoff teams to the lottery. (As did Chicago, albeit in different circumstances.)

These clowns can't grasp that a lot of what Pippen did couldn't be replaced, while, evidently, Portland sure managed to find ways to replace Drexler.

[tpols]

So NO Pip isn't underrated. He's a top 6-8 SF GOAT wise. And a top 30-40 GOAT wise! That's the right level for Pip!!

A lot of pippen stans say he is top 20-25.

So we now know he's not underrated... he's overrated.

[Roundball_Rock]

1-9ball, why do you have to have your betas bail you out in every thread? :lol


A lot of pippen stans say he is top 20-25.


Top 20-30 is the consensus (#21 on the most recent list, from ESPN) in the real world. The lowest I have seen him is #28 on any expert list (Simmons). Can you produce a reputable AT list that doesn't have him as top 30? Thanks in advance. :lol

You guys jack each other off and create your own bubble. Never produce anything to support your fantasies, e.g., here produce a single list that has him outside the top 30.

Forget top 40. Show me one where he is outside the top 30. 1-9ball.com doesn't count. Reputable lists from actual experts who have knowledge and don't have an agenda. What you all fail to grasp is the people who make these lists do it with actual criteria, not personal feelings due to agendas.

Of course you are a MJ stan so you will continue in your fantasyland where Pippen is not consensus top 30. It is amusing you all ignore the obvious consensus but it shows how delusional (and dishonest) MJ stains are. Honest fans could simply say "The consensus is X, but I disagree with it." MJ stains deny the consensus even exists.

Recent All-Time Lists (highest ranked in a group listed first)

Top 31-40

ESPN: Thomas, Harden, Havlicek, Mikan, Kidd, McHale, Ewing, Petit, Frazier, Paul
Slam: Kidd, Barry, Hayes, Nash, Paul, Frazier, Westbrook, Cousy, Payton, McHale
Backpicks: Petit, Havlicek, Frazier, Kidd, Pierce, Gilmore, Baylor, McHale, Drexler, Allen

Top 21-30

ESPN: Pippen, Baylor, Barkley, Robinson, Leonard, Wade, Giannis, Stockton, Iverson, Nash
Slam: K. Malone, Pippen, Wade, Havlicek, Stockton, Garnett, Dirk, Iverson, Robinson, Ewing
Backpicks: Paul, Barkley, Durant, Wade, Pippen, M. Malone, Stockton, Ewing, Barry, Miller

Simmons hasn't updated his overall list but recently said Pippen is 28th now, down from 24th in 2009, because Dirk, Curry, KD, and Kawhi surpassed him, which is fair. Pippen is between 21-28--a tight range. You know, a consensus. :oldlol:

Top 11-30

ESPN: Oscar, Hakeem, Curry, Durant, Erving, West, K. Malone, M. Malone, Dirk, Garnett
Slam: Oscar, Hakeem, Durant, M. Malone, Erving, West, Thomas, Baylor, Curry, Barkley
Backpicks: Bird, Oscar, Kobe, K. Malone, Robinson, Erving, West, Dirk, Nash, Curry

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?480194-Top-40-Players-on-All-Time-Lists&p=13999003#post13999003

[tpols]

Pippen in 98' was as old as Drexler in 95'.

Drexler averaged 21/7/5 on a very elite 120 ORTG in the 1995 playoffs. Pippen in 1998? 17/7/5 on 108 ORTG. And thats as apples to apples as it can ever be. Both second options, same age, en route to a title... damn. Clyde was on another level. And that's not even factoring in how clutch he was.

[goozeman]

The basketball world thought enough Clyde that when Portland passed on Jordan nobody even batted an eyelid, and history shows that belief was very nearly completely justified. Drexler's peak in the late 80's was 25/7/6 and one Western Conference Finals loss against Lakers from 3 straight Finals appearances from 90 to 92. He wasn't second fiddle either, but THE MAN on those teams. What in the world did Pippen ever do that even comes close to that? Pippen couldn't even get out of the second round with veteran championship team with a HOF coach walking the sidelines, and despite what people claim here, he was not that highly thought of in Chicago. The Bulls were were even shopping Pippen after they signed Harper in 1994. For example, this is from the Chicago Tribune:




BULLS SIGN HARPER

The Bulls finally got a Harper.

The question now is whether that means they've decided to trade Scottie Pippen.

The Bulls late Friday announced they have signed Los Angeles Clippers free-agent guard Ron Harper to a multiyear contract and will introduce him at a press conference Saturday.

That could mean Pippen is somewhat expendable, because the Bulls would like to move Toni Kukoc into a starting small forward position. It's unlikely Kukoc would play much shooting guard with Harper, who has averaged almost 40 minutes per game the last three seasons, now in the back court with B.J. Armstrong.



If you read the whole article (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1994-09-17-9409170144-story.html) you see there was serious thought about trading Pippen for guys like Rony Seikaly or Juwan Howard.

[Roundball_Rock]

The consensus is what it is. I can't spend all day with dishonest MJ stans. If you can produce a list that has Pippen 31st or lower, then we'll talk. :lol

[tpols]

:roll:

Your lists have Pippen ranked ahead of charles barkley, dwayne wade, kawhi leonard, kevin garnett, dirk nowitzki, moses malone, david robinson. That's just despicable. And proves the point. Pippen was vastly overrated due to team success he had playing with Michael Jordan. I mean, he's not better than a couple other guys on those lists but the names I just mentioned it's just absolutely appalling to even consider him better than.

We need the mods to re-title this thread. Replace "under" with "over" please.

This is getting out of hand.

[ImKobe]

Uh...Pippen is definitely one of the best finishers ever. That's never been disputed by anybody...but you apparently:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8_GiznzWbk

You'd have to be an idiot to think this guy wasn't one of the best finishers ever. The only Pippen your clown ass ever watched was the past his prime and nearly broken down Blazer one.

I can show highlights of any top-tier NBA player & do the same. He was above-average but not one of the GOAT finishers.


:roll:

Your lists have Pippen ranked ahead of charles barkley, dwayne wade, kawhi leonard, kevin garnett, dirk nowitzki, moses malone, david robinson. That's just despicable. And proves the point. Pippen was vastly overrated due to team success he had playing with Michael Jordan. I mean, he's not better than a couple other guys on those lists but the names I just mentioned it's just absolutely appalling to even consider him better than.

We need the mods to re-title this thread. Replace "under" with "over" please.

This is getting out of hand.

Yeah, it's ****ing ridiculous, we know Pippen's track record without MJ, he has no case over those guys. He peaked 3rd in a 2-man MVP race, he was a Paul George in his era, but somehow we're acting as if he was better than actual #1 options who won MVPs & led teams to titles/Finals?

[tpols]

Rockhead thinks scottie pippen was better than kawhi leonard because ESPN told him so.

Oh boy he's in for a treat this year. :lol

[Round Mound]

Here's the thing about Pippen... He had a phenomenal floor game. He combined passing, rebounding, and defense at a tremendous level. Among the top 3 ever for SF's in my opinion. Up there with Bron and Hondo. BUT Bron and Hondo were ALPHA DOG SCORERS on top of it. You have SG's like MJ, Kobe, West, D Wade, etc. as well. From there, u have perimeter players who were/are alpha dogs AND triple double threats in one package. Like Bron, Bird, Magic, Big O, Russ, Harden, etc.

So my point is you have legends who had SICK BLENDS of scoring ability AND all around ability! Is you gave Bird SIX RINGS, he would still be hands down the GOAT SF! But Pip with six rings is NEVER REGARDED as the GOAT SF. The reason why is your peak-prime value FACTORS into GOAT status. And peak-prime wise, I'm NOT SURE Pip is a top 10 SF ever. Bird on the other hand is a top 2 SF ever peak-prime wise. That's why Bird with 6 is the GOAT SF. And top 2-3 GOAT AMONG EVERYBODY!!! So NO Pip isn't underrated. He's a top 6-8 SF GOAT wise. And a top 30-40 GOAT wise! That's the right level for Pip!!

For guys who were superstars, Nique, English, and McAdoo are underrated. English scored MORE POINTS than anybody in the 1980's! Among SF's, ONLY BRON has scored more career points than Nique. McAdoo was three times scoring champ, MVP, and was WAY AHEAD of his time in terms of being a stretch PF-C. He was the precursor to Dirk. Yet these three don't get the props they deserve. None were on the the top 50 players of all time list! For guys who weren't superstar type guys BUT All Star caliber for several years how about Rod Strickland. CLEARLY an All Star level talent YET never made one All Star Game!

That sounds about right. I have Pippen in the Top 30-35 All Time Players and a Top 7 All Time SF. He was definetly a Top 10 Player in the 90's.

[goozeman]

Rockhead thinks scottie pippen was better than kawhi leonard because ESPN told him so.

Oh boy he's in for a treat this year. :lol

ESPN is shameless as usual promoting their own employee. Nobody but Pippen's pals at ESPN believe he is top 30 player. He is maybe a top 40 to 50 player all-time, and that is more of a legacy rating based off being second banana on so many championship squads. ESPN very nearly got this man in the top 20 all-time, lol and when he literally had just one good season as a marquee franchise player in his career.

[ImKobe]

Rockhead thinks scottie pippen was better than kawhi leonard because ESPN told him so.

Oh boy he's in for a treat this year. :lol

He'd actually argue Pippen over Kawhi, he's that braindead. These guys be arguing Pippen over Giannis in other threads, you can't make this shit up.

[AirBonner]

Rockhead thinks scottie pippen was better than kawhi leonard because ESPN told him so.

Oh boy he's in for a treat this year. :lol

Uh this clippers team has more talent

[Roundball_Rock]

Notice how MJ stans don't offer any criticism of any other 90's player? :lol Every 90's star was flawless--even the ones who were less accomplished than Pippen, a scrub. #Shamelessagenda

"It is crazy to consider Pippen top 30 all-time--even though every single all-time list has him top 30."--MJ stans :oldlol:

MJ stains can't grasp the concept of consensus, except when it comes to MJ on these same lists from the same people. :roll:


Uh this clippers team has more talent


You are responding to an idiot who thinks Ewing>LeBron, 1-9ball's second poodle. They follow 1-9ball thread to thread and mimic him. 1-9ball amusingly usually ignores tpols and IMKobe.

[ImKobe]

Notice how MJ stans don't offer any criticism of any other 90's player? :lol Every 90's star was flawless--even the ones who were less accomplished than Pippen, a scrub.

"It is crazy to consider Pippen top 30 all-time--even though every single all-time list has him top 30."--MJ stans :oldlol:



You are responding to an idiot who thinks Ewing>LeBron, 1-9ball's second poodle. They follow 1-9ball thread to thread and mimic him. 1-9ball amusingly usually ignores tpols and IMKobe. :lol

You are more delusional than I thought. I guess since when you can't refute any of my facts, you stick to moving the goalposts & just blatantly making up shit in order to make yourself feel better. Imagine being anti-Jordan in 2020 by propping up a mediocre 20 ppg scorer in Pippen. I guess the PER arguments you had 10 years ago are moot now with Giannis & Doncic erasing Lebron's records. :roll:

I've shit on plenty of 90s players, everyone has their flaws. Doesn't mean Pippen's better than actual #1 options who led teams to the Finals & won MVPs, only retards like you can live with lying to yourselves on this board. Imagine having Pippen top 20 all-time in your user title, pathetic Lebronsexual. Apparently having Pippen top 40 all-time/top ~10 in the 90s is disrespecting him. Go google some more pro-Pippen articles from 1993, loser.

[Roundball_Rock]

Let's cut to the chase. This is what the anti-Pippen crusade from MJ stains is all about:

LeBron without Wade: finals after finals, won a ring, contending for yet another chip with Wade long gone.
Kareem without Magic: chip, 2 finals, 4 conference finals.
Jordan without Pippen: nothing.
Hakeem without Drexler: chip, 2 finals (since Drexler came up :lol )
Kawhi without Duncan: chip, finals, 2 conference finals (since Kawhi came up as well)

If this makes you insecure that is a problem since these facts won't change, unless you count MJ winning as an owner but he can't get out the first round in Charlotte to date.

Get over it. No one holds that MJ didn't win, or come close to winning, without Pippen against him.

[ImKobe]

Here's the difference - Jordan played with Pippen almost his entire career, apart from the first 3 seasons and the 2 with the Wizards at age 38-40. He wasn't going to win titles in his first 3 with the rosters the Bulls had & he sure wasn't going to win on the Wizards. All the guys you listed played in their primes/peaks without the players mentioned, Duncan was a fossil before Kawhi even hit his prime, so that just shows how ****ing stupid your arguments are. It took me a few weeks but I have you down to Dray n Klay levels of stupidity in your responses, you have literally no substance when it comes to these arguments, just the typical Lebronsexual arguments I've seen from low-quality trolls over the years. Keep trying, buddy.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Think we had this discussion a few months back, RR. I had like 7-8 players better than Pip in the 90s and you had like 5.

Drexler was better in the late 80s and early 90s while Mitch might've been better in the late 90s. But that is probably debatable. Overall, and after Jordan, Pippen was the most decorated 90s perimeter star though. His advanced stats all checkout plus he's got the hardware and defense. Once again, defense is what some of these posters conveniently ignore.

[AirBonner]

Think we had this discussion a few months back, RR. I had like 7-8 players better than Pip in the 90s and you had like 5.

Drexler was better in the late 80s and early 90s while Mitch was probably better in the late 90s. But that is probably debatable. Overall, and after Jordan, Pippen was the best 90s perimeter player though. His advanced stats all check out plus he's got the hardware and defense. Once again, defense is what some of these posters conveniently ignore.

Defense is what made Pippen elite and slightly better than players like Drexler

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Defense is what made Pippen elite and slightly better than players like Drexler

Clyde wasn't a slouch on defense either. In 1992, Clyde averaged a 9 BPM which bests Pippen's peak in 94.

Drexler had about 3 more seasons with ~7 BPM which is superstar production. He also led his team to TWO finals appearances, playing in a tough conference.

[Roundball_Rock]

Think we had this discussion a few months back, RR. I had like 7-8 players better than Pip in the 90s and you had like 5.

Drexler was better in the late 80s and early 90s while Mitch might've been better in the late 90s. But that is probably debatable. Overall, and after Jordan, Pippen was the most decorated 90s perimeter star though. His advanced stats all checkout plus he's got the hardware and defense. Once again, defense is what some of these posters conveniently ignore.

Yeah--but we are talking within the confines of the real world, debating whether Pippen is 6th or 8th-9th for the 90's as a whole. The other people in this thread compare Pippen to players like Iggy, Draymond, Michael Cooper, say he was nowhere close to Derrick Coleman, think Pippen was a one way player, etc. If someone says Drexler>Pippen? I disagree but that is a sane opinion.

People can dispute personal rankings but accolades, resumes, and consensus are fact based. Pippen has gone down in history as the second greatest 90's perimeter player, which puts him ahead of Stockton, Payton, Drexler as the guys right behind him and then there are people like Wilkins and Miller farther behind. These guys act like it is crazy to say Pippen is a top legend.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Yeah--but we are talking within the confines of the real world, debating whether Pippen is 6th or 8th-9th for the 90's as a whole. The other people in this thread compare Pippen to players like Iggy, Draymond, Michael Cooper, say he was nowhere close to Derrick Coleman, think Pippen was a one way player, etc. If someone says Drexler>Pippen? I disagree but that is a sane opinion.

People can dispute personal rankings but accolades, resumes, and consensus are fact based. Pippen has gone down in history as the second greatest 90's perimeter player, which puts him ahead of Stockton, Payton, Drexler as the guys right behind him and then there are people like Wilkins and Miller farther behind. These guys act like it is crazy to say Pippen is a top legend.

:roll:

Legit laughed @ Michael Cooper's name. He was good on defense, no doubt, but c'mon people.

You've said you don't have a problem with Glide>Pip so what's the issue here? Why is the other side throwing a tantrum?

All they gotta ask is who you think was better than Pippen and go from there. The "LeBronsexual" crap is dumb and a giveaway they don't want a real discussion.

[Roundball_Rock]

Legit laughed @ Michael Cooper's name. He was good on defense, no doubt, but c'mon people.


You know their narrative: Pippen was a one way player like Cooper, Rodman, or Ben Wallace. This is comical because no one said that when he played. His entire reputation was being good/great at everything, hence why some people considered him the best "all-around" player in the NBA at his peak. You can't be the best "all-around" and be a one-way player. :lol


You've said you don't have a problem with Glide>Pip so what's the issue here? Why is the other side throwing a tantrum? All they gotta ask is who you think was better than Pippen and go from there. The "LeBronsexual" crap is dumb and is a giveaway they don't want a real discussion.

Yup. We have done versions of this and come up pretty close (e.g., 90's best and potential 2nd options).

Where I rank Pippen in the 90's (6th IMO but I can see a case for Ewing), all-time, and his peak (3rd or 4th best at his peak--I am not saying he was ever #1 or #2) are all consistent with the consensus. These guys think having Pippen 24-27 all-time is insane, though.