2020 Raptors are like the 1994 Bulls

[Turbo Slayer]

Crazy to see this happening.

[Roundball_Rock]

The reason for the parallel is in 70+ years of basketball these are the only teams to remain elite immediately after their best players left (other cases are teams rebuilding on top of some of that original core, like the 60's Celtics initially sucking enough after Russell to draft Cowens and then pairing him with Havlicek in the 70's). There literally aren't any other cases to bring into the conversation.

[Shogon]

The reason for the parallel is in 70+ years of basketball these are the only teams to remain elite immediately after their best players left.

Annnnnndddddddddd the thread is now over.

[BigtimeNBAFan]

Yeah they overachieved and all things considered had a great year. The fact they were a few shots away from making the conference finals shows how good of a team they had last year. They were much more than Kawhi just as the Bulls were much more than Jordan.

[And1AllDay]

Imagine if Toronto picked up Pete Myers

[Turbo Slayer]

Imagine if Toronto picked up Pete Myers It´s similiar honestly. Since the Raptors lost Kawhi to the Clippers, the Raptors only made mini additions to their roster.

They added just Terence Davis and Matt Thomas (Both of them are rookies!)


To be fair though the 1994 Bulls picked up Kerr, Kukoc, and Longley to their team also.

[Roundball_Rock]

Huge difference: one team had an opportunity to prepare and adapt and one team didn't...

Raptors not signing anyone was their own choice. They relied on internal growth. Bulls were forced to play with only one scorer. Obviously not what they would have done if they had a choice.

Longley was a trade deadline trade to be a bench center. People misremember that he was the starter because he was on the second threepeat teams but it was Cartwright in 94' and Perdue, not Longley, in 95' for the entire season. Only by the
95' playoffss did Longley displace Perdue (who was getting roasted by Mourning), who was traded for Rodman of course.

Kukoc and Kerr were valuable but not MJ related. Kukoc had been drafted several years prior. Kerr was Orlando's 12th man when they signed him--he was signed before MJ and fortunately was better than anyone thought based on his career to date. Neither was part of any "we have to fill the MJ void" plan. You can't have a plan 3 weeks before the season.

The only signing they made that was connected to MJ was Myers to "replace" him. They literally could not sign a NBA player for the spot...

[highwhey]

i have a 2020 raptor, but i don't understand why it's like the 1994 bulls? can you please elaborate?
https://i.postimg.cc/d0vCmkBG/619640417.jpg

[Reggie43]

Weird that it played out the same. I have the Bucks and the Raptors for the Conference finals and both of them got eliminated. Just shows not to put too much stock on regular season records.

[Axe]

i have a 2020 raptor, but i don't understand why it's like the 1994 bulls? can you please elaborate?
https://i.postimg.cc/d0vCmkBG/619640417.jpg
Shit. This just made my day. :roll:

[Micku]

The reason for the parallel is in 70+ years of basketball these are the only teams to remain elite immediately after their best players left (other cases are teams rebuilding on top of some of that original core, like the 60's Celtics initially sucking enough after Russell to draft Cowens and then pairing him with Havlicek in the 70's). There literally aren't any other cases to bring into the conversation.

Well, there is one more I think, but it's not exactly the same. Rose with the Bulls. When Rose was injured in 2012, the Bulls still did good without him and maintain the number 1 seed. They just crumble in the playoffs without him. Similar case in 2013, tho they didn't get the number 1 seed, they did decently well in the regular season. With Patrick Ewing in 1999, he was hurt and had to get out, but they still beat the Pacers and went to the finals. The Jazz back in the 80s also did better in the RS without Adrian Dantley, who was a 30 ppg on 56% shooting guy. He was around with Karl Malone and Stockton, though Karl Malone was a rookie and Stockton was in his 2nd year. They got the same result of being knocked out in the first round, but they lost their best player. Karl Malone wasn't da mailman yet and Stockton wasn't great yet either.

The 2020 Raptors and the 1994 Bulls are the only ones that I think of performed elite. And both times, I feel like if Kawhi or MJ would've been on the team, that team would be even better. And probably would've won the series.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

1 shot away from being 0-3 and hopeless. The basketball gods wanted to expose them the long way instead: make it go 7 and show how much of a choker Lowry/trashcal are

[SouBeachTalents]

One that's never talked about is the 76ers winning 55 games the year after trading Wilt. They ended up as the 2 seed but had the misfortune of playing the Celtics in the first round

[SouBeachTalents]

1 shot away from being 0-3 and hopeless. The basketball gods wanted to expose them the long way instead: make it go 7 and show how much of a choker Lowry/trashcal are
They were also a shot away from potentially losing in the 2nd round with Kawhi last year

[highwhey]

Shit. This just made my day. :roll:

i'm glad i did that bro, i'm just trying to create a smile on people's faces :cheers:

[Axe]

i'm glad i did that bro, i'm just trying to create a smile on people's faces :cheers:
Yeah but only a few carheads such as us will understand that. :pimp:

[highwhey]

Yeah but only a few carheads such as us will understand that. :pimp:

haha. you're basically the only one who responds to my car threads seriously, i figured you for a car head :applause:

[Axe]

haha. you're basically the only one who responds to my car threads seriously, i figured you for a car head :applause:
Lmao since toddler days. :oldlol:

[highwhey]

Lmao since toddler days. :oldlol:

what u drive?

[Axe]

what u drive?
My family has plenty but we have a 2019 mazda mx5. Actually, dad owns it but i get to drive it from time to time. We have the stickshift version because it's more amazing than the automated one, not to mention more fuel efficient as well.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTJ3JiRY77x-QdoVl2R1UFN5jNxjoLl3FTZRQ&usqp=CAU

[highwhey]

My family has plenty but we have a 2019 mazda mx5. Actually, dad owns it but i get to drive it from time to time. We have the stickshift version because it's more amazing than the automated one, not to mention more fuel efficient as well.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTJ3JiRY77x-QdoVl2R1UFN5jNxjoLl3FTZRQ&usqp=CAU

i bet its fun to drive through corners. i love stickshift, always a blast rowing gears.

[Axe]

i bet its fun to drive through corners. i love stickshift, always a blast rowing gears.
Yeah tho it's quite a chore to drive in traffic but a very pleasurable one to drive in the open roads. If we wanted something larger, we have could have opted for a mustang since it can seat four or maybe a wrx sti instead but they're more expensive as well.

[highwhey]

Yeah tho it's quite a chore to drive in traffic but a very pleasurable one to drive in the open roads. If we wanted something larger, we have could have opted for a mustang since it can seat four or maybe a wrx sti instead but they're more expensive as well.

dude, i had a tacoma with a stick shift. i can't explain how many times in traffic i hated myself. stop and go, stop and go. rush hour traffic was hell. i live in the 5th largest city in the US, it sucks. i will never drive a stick shift car in heavy traffic again.

[Axe]

dude, i had a tacoma with a stick shift. i can't explain how many times in traffic i hated myself. stop and go, stop and go. rush hour traffic was hell. i live in the 5th largest city in the US, it sucks. i will never drive a stick shift car in heavy traffic again.
Lol moreso when you have a long vehicle to drive. That's why automatics have become the bestsellers nowadays. Meanwhile, you preserve the stickshifts if you're going to drive in the highways or expressways. I bet the raptor made you sigh in relief even if it's bigger compared to your compact truck. :oldlol:

[highwhey]

Lol moreso when you have a long vehicle to drive. That's why automatics have become the bestsellers nowadays. Meanwhile, you preserve the stickshifts if you're going to drive in the highways or expressways. I bet the raptor made you sigh in relief even if it's bigger compared to your compact truck. :oldlol:

i still have the taco chilling in my driveway. but i havent driven it since i got the raptor. i will say tho, the raptor sucks for drive through lol, the turn raidus is horrible.

[Axe]

i still have the taco chilling in my driveway. but i havent driven it since i got the raptor. i will say tho, the raptor sucks for drive through lol, the turn raidus is horrible.
Oh, that's the greatest drawback of a bigger vehicle. Turning radius would be a bit compromised but once you get used to it, it won't be as tiring as when you drove it first for the first few days coming from a smaller pickup. You'll adjust to it eventually.

[TheGoatest]

Now compare the 2020 Raptors or the 1994 Bulls to the 2010-2014 or 2018-2020 Cavaliers. In fact, pick the very best season of those 6 Cavaliers seasons and compare them to the one season from 2020 Raptors or 1994 Bulls.

[Roundball_Rock]

Well, there is one more I think, but it's not exactly the same. Rose with the Bulls. When Rose was injured in 2012, the Bulls still did good without him and maintain the number 1 seed. They just crumble in the playoffs without him. Similar case in 2013, tho they didn't get the number 1 seed, they did decently well in the regular season. With Patrick Ewing in 1999, he was hurt and had to get out, but they still beat the Pacers and went to the finals..

Those aren't the same level, as you note at the end. The 12' Bulls remained elite for the part of the season Rose got hurt (something like a 56 win pace without him, 67 with him) but that was with knowing he would be back. They went 1-4 in the first round against an 8 seed without Rose and then were a 45 win team the next year. They weren't threatening for 60 wins. Another case similar to the 12' Bulls is the 09' Celtics. They declined but remained a top 5 team in the non-KG games, they got to Game 7 of the ECSF. The Bulls went from 69-13 to a 56 win pace without Pippen for half of 98', another decline but they remained elite. But again we are talking partial seasons. Way more examples like that. All of Kobe's teams basically maintained their win pace without him. Etc. If we are talking 82 games there are two cases in NBA history.

The Knicks did it for 4 games and promptly got crushed in the finals.

Dantley gets us to another issue when you are sliding to lower and lower levels of players. If you count Dantley, you could point to the Nuggets improving without Carmelo. All of Kyrie's teams in recent years doing better without him. Etc. MJ is arguably the GOAT, Kawhi will be no worse than top 20 if he stays healthy when he retires and probably top 15. It is easier to replace a Dantley or Kyrie than a MJ or even a Kawhi.

I am quibbling a bit but we share the same basic conclusion about teams remaining elite for full seasons.


One that's never talked about is the 76ers winning 55 games the year after trading Wilt.

Trades are different, especially for a player of that caliber. They got 4-5 players back for him. That isn't the same as getting Pete Myers to replace peak MJ, for example.

Often teams improve after trading away a superstar. We have seen it several times in recent years. Indiana w/out PG, OKC w/out PG and Westbrook, Denver w/out Carmelo all in the last decade or so. That shows you gaining multiple good players can>1 superstar, at least superstars of their levels.


They were also a shot away from potentially losing in the 2nd round with Kawhi last year

No way to get around that fact. :oldlol: It also shows how small margins are in a lot of series. If J. Grant makes a couple open threes in Game 3 HBK's Clips would be down 3-2 in the series.