I’m looking forward to finding out how Harden plays stylistically now.

[Kblaze8855]

I’ve read rumblings over the years that he plays how he plays because he was told to. That left on his own he would play more traditionally, not isolate so long, move off the ball and all. And watching a lot of his pre Dantoni footage you can see it. He’s been the way he is so long you almost forget he used to operate at the elbows, triple threat at 18 feet, and step back into midrange jumpers while mixing in some post ups. He’s not gonna step shooting large numbers of threes(nor should he) but it’s possible he goes back to playing a more well rounded game. Dantoni literally didn’t even want him moving off the ball. You watch him stand there without the ball and wonder why....but coach told him to just stand there as not to clog the lanes:



So just stand there. If they come off, he’s going to catch-and-shoot. But to move around and run around and get him tired for no reason? No. You can’t make James more efficient, I don’t think, than what he is. I think it’d just wear him down.”



Its possible James is the new Wilt in that he just does what he’s told and gets blamed for following a weird game plan because he seems to enjoy it while doing crazy numbers but he secretly just wants to play normally.

It’s at least possible.

[Shogon]

Even if he plays the way he does now because he was told to, I assure you, playing this way has infected his ego. Most games? He literally pouts when he's not scoring or doesn't have the ball. He's just standing around doing nothing.

If they get a coach that makes him move the ball more rather than him playing the young LeBron role of dominating the ball and scoring or driving and kicking, I will be fascinated to see how his morale plummets. To be fair to him though I didn't watch much of him and Westbrook this season. But I did watch him in the playoffs, and yeah, when he wasn't scoring, he was basically invisible.

[NBAGOAT]

i disagree. the rockets let paul and westbrook take midrange shots, they are very accommodating to their stars and i think morey even consults with harden on free agency moves(why they cut hartenstein). I noticed they finally used some harden in the post plays vs dort and guessing he asked for it. I dont think he has the motor to constantly move around so standing is his way of taking plays off. he's a bit flabby plays huge minutes and tries quite a bit on defense now. A new coach will have to force harden to play a different way

[Jailblazers7]

I think he's gotta mix up his play style for sure, especially in the post season. I'd be interested to see how he and Russ play together in a system that uses more movement off ball. I think they're both such effective cutters and passers that they could make it work. Clearly you can't just stagnate and let defenses give Russ a 10 foot cushion without compromising the rest of the game plan.

[Smook A.]

I wanna see him bring back mid-range jumpers. He was hitting them well in the 2014-15 season

I also want to see some movement from him without the ball. He was great at cutting to the basket in OKC and in his early Houston years

[LoneyROY7]

Hopefully, they can find the right coach.

I'm definitely interested to see the new direction.

[Kblaze8855]

I’m not taking about midrange shots specifically. I’m talking about a a generally free flowing best thing for the moment offense while also getting him more looks without isolating so long the rest of the team is stagnant. I don’t see a downside to working off the ball as well considering all the attention he would get. I don’t think anyone on his level should be told “Just stand there” and apparently that’s exactly what he’s been told to do without the ball.

[Kblaze8855]

i disagree. the rockets let paul and westbrook take midrange shots, they are very accommodating to their stars and i think morey even consults with harden on free agency moves(why they cut hartenstein). I noticed they finally used some harden in the post plays vs dort and guessing he asked for it. I dont think he has the motor to constantly move around so standing is his way of taking plays off. he's a bit flabby plays huge minutes and tries quite a bit on defense now. A new coach will have to force harden to play a different way


I don’t think he needs plays off to the extent he can’t even move around a bit. He plays big minutes by our current standards but the 36.5 he plays is within a tenth of a minute of the least he’s ever played as a starter. We are just used to guys doing 33 minutes these days so 36 suddenly started feeling like a lot. The minutes he’s at now would have been 19th as recently as 2013.

He doesn’t play huge minutes by the standards of any era but the last 3-4 years.

Hes easily capable of more or of putting more effort in off the ball in the minutes he plays.

[NBAGOAT]

I don’t think he needs plays off to the extent he can’t even move around a bit. He plays big minutes by our current standards but the 36.5 he plays is within a tenth of a minute of the least he’s ever played as a starter. We are just used to guys doing 33 minutes these days so 36 suddenly started feeling like a lot. The minutes he’s at now would have been 19th as recently as 2013.

He doesn’t play huge minutes by the standards of any era but the last 3-4 years.

Hes easily capable of more or of putting more effort in off the ball in the minutes he plays.

yea there's a reason no one plays over 37 and it's not just load management. I pretty sure tracking stats says guys are covering more miles per games every year and that's how you get tired. dmavs pointed out that when harden really puts in defensive effort on a play, he doesnt even get involved in the next offensive possession.

[Kblaze8855]

If they are limiting players play to stay healthy....that’s what load management is. What do you call it?

And if you can’t play D then be involved on the other end you probably aren’t someone to take serious anyway.

Plenty of people can go from defense to offense without taking the play off. I doubt he’s that unconditioned.

[DMAVS41]

If they are limiting players play to stay healthy....that’s what load management is. What do you call it?

And if you can’t play D them be involved on the other end you probably aren’t someone to take serious anyway.

Plenty of people can go from defense to offense without take the play off. I doubt he’s that unconditioned.

Him changing up his offensive style will definitely help with his ability to give effort on defense. Asking anyone to play his offensive style and give a lot of effort on defense isn't happening though.

Should be interesting next year to see what the Rockets look like.

[juju151111]

I’ve read rumblings over the years that he plays how he plays because he was told to. That left on his own he would play more traditionally, not isolate so long, move off the ball and all. And watching a lot of his pre Dantoni footage you can see it. He’s been the way he is so long you almost forget he used to operate at the elbows, triple threat at 18 feet, and step back into midrange jumpers while mixing in some post ups. He’s not gonna step shooting large numbers of threes(nor should he) but it’s possible he goes back to playing a more well rounded game. Dantoni literally didn’t even want him moving off the ball. You watch him stand there without the ball and wonder why....but coach told him to just stand there as not to clog the lanes:






Its possible James is the new Wilt in that he just does what he’s told and gets blamed for following a weird game plan because he seems to enjoy it while doing crazy numbers but he secretly just wants to play normally.

It’s at least possible.

We seen Harden without antoni. He still played similar but took some more Midrange.

[NBAGOAT]

If they are limiting players play to stay healthy....that’s what load management is. What do you call it?

And if you can’t play D them be involved on the other end you probably aren’t someone to take serious anyway.

Plenty of people can go from defense to offense without take the play off. I doubt he’s that unconditioned.

well it's just effectiveness drops off at a certain point. like idk how much i believe it but the bucks seriously thought 35mpg was a drop off point for giannis. There are plenty of guys who are more conditioned and also play more offball with less minutes. curry's one of the better conditioned guys but also hasnt played big minutes in awhile

[Kblaze8855]

I’d imagine Steph being on one of the most talented teams ever for 3 years would help limit minutes as would Giannis winning by what was record margins before the bubble.

Im sure you do get worse as you get more tired....but 36 minutes still isn’t what I’d call “huge” minutes when it’s at his starting career low. Whatever we call it...he’s used to it.

[tpols]

His style isn't the real problem. The real problem is his help is always outmatched talent wise. They would've beat super stacked "unbeatable" GSW in 2018 if CP3 didn't get hurt. He had nobody before that when he faced the warriors. Today? He had to face Lebron AND Anthony Davis by himself. Eric Gordon and [] were ranked two of the worst playoff players in the league by every advanced metric. I'm not a Harden fan and the problem isn't Harden. It's his shit comparative help having to go against the Dynasty Dubs every year and new age version of Magic and Kareem with little backup.

[Kblaze8855]

Let’s not do the Karl Malone thing where we pretend that due to someone losing to a great team that’s all they ever played. They did lose to the blazers, Spurs, and Thunder none of whom made the finals and the lakers may or may not. Besides I’m not talking about them losing. I’m talking his style of play.

[tpols]

Karl Malone had equal help and choked. Stockton and Pippen and the role players are a wash. It was down to the wire, and he choked. MJ stripped him, and hit the iconic GW.

None of that applies to James Harden.

[Kblaze8855]

The comparison was about people pretending a career of losing is due to one matchup. The rockets lost the warriors pre KD when Steph had 30 points...the entire series. Again....win or lose isn’t my concern anyway. I’m wondering how much of his hated approach is coaching. They aren’t likely to win either way.

[Jailblazers7]

Even with KD, Harden shot 2 for 13 from 3 and 41% from the field in a winnable Game 7. So it can't be that it was simply impossible for Harden to win but Malone is a huge choker.

[Penetrator]

Hardon is a loser. Blaming the fact he got doubled this series?
Lol kobe would laugh at a double team, hell you better send 3 defenders..

[Whoah10115]

He was playing this way the season before D'Antoni joined. D'Antoni loves moving the ball and playing fast; Carmelo helped kill the Knick revival...

And D'Antoni played him at the point. Totally worked, should have won MVP.

If he's gonna play like this, play him at PG.

[Smoke117]

lol You're not curious about a damn thing. You are, just like I am, amused, by the current events. Stop getting on your knees for yourself over nothing. The Rockets failure and your diatribe about it mean very little overall, mate.

[Kblaze8855]

How Harden plays with a traditional coach after all these years not being something youre interested in doesn’t mean other people can’t be. You could replace the start of your last sentence with literally every basketball topic in history. None of it means very much. And still....almost everyone reading this will tune in to see if they play differently. That’s what we do here.

[Smoke117]

How Harden plays with a traditional coach after all these years not being something youre interested in doesn’t mean other people can’t be. You could replace the start of your last sentence with literally every basketball topic in history. None of it means very much. And still....almost everyone reading this will tune in to see if they play differently. That’s what we do here.

lol We could all make everything about a big argument about bullshit...you've done that for years, after all. You are just bullshitting now. At least be open ended with your nonsense.