r u in favor of additional economic relief?

[diamenz]

-direct payments to individuals & families?

-additional relief for small businesses?

-large corporations?

-all of the above?

why or why not?

with cold weather and the flu season fast approaching, cases and 'shut downs' will inevitably increase. restaurants will have to close up their patios, people will hunker down and shop online even more so than they're doing now. small businesses will continue to struggle and fail, and families will continue to have to sell their stocks, assets and give up their mortgages in order to make ends meet. am i exaggerating? maybe, depending on who you ask... but everyone's situation is unique and there's some people out there really hurting right now on multiple fronts. should the federal government step up and continue to step up until we're back to normal, or say to americans 'f*** you - you're on your own throughout all of this'?

[Shogon]

Nobody believes any of this has any sort of impact on us anyways which is why nobody speaks out against it, so why not?

In fact, why not just eliminate the income tax? Apparently money comes from the central bank and that's all there is to it. They just think it into existence and BOOM.

So why do we pay taxes? Can anyone answer that question? In fact, why do we even work? Just send money to everyone all the time for no reason so everyone can live for free without having to do anything.

This is a highly rhetorical and sarcastic post for you idiots out there whose heads it flew over.

[BigKobeFan]

No we do not need any more economic relief. We need to open up and get everyone back to work.

These idiot democrats were claiming that the unemployment rate is sky high because people can't find jobs. But once you cut the free $600, guess what happened...drop in unemployment.

[diamenz]

restaurants & small businesses - let them fail?

[diamenz]

No we do not need any more economic relief. We need to open up and get everyone back to work.

These idiot democrats were claiming that the unemployment rate is sky high because people can't find jobs. But once you cut the free $600, guess what happened...drop in unemployment.

yeah, ideally that's what we need to happen, but it's not going to just happen.

[BigKobeFan]

yeah, ideally that's what we need to happen, but it's not going to just happen.

if you can enter a walmart, HD, and protest with a mask on and you won't get the virus, there's nothing wrong with small busiensses from opening with masks on.

[diamenz]

if you can enter a walmart, HD, and protest with a mask on and you won't get the virus, there's nothing wrong with small busiensses from opening with masks on.

yeah, that's fine. what i'm saying though... is that's just not going to happen right now. restaurants at full capacity? not happening.

[Axe]

Yes. Who doesn't want to receive any compensations in their lives?

[Norcaliblunt]

In fact, why not just eliminate the income tax? Apparently money comes from the central bank and that's all there is to it. They just think it into existence and BOOM.

So why do we pay taxes? Can anyone answer that question?

I’ve always said this when it comes to big projects that need to get done like infrastructure. It doesn’t need to be on budget paid with tax dollars when the fed can just cough it up. All though I’m not for a border wall I would respect Trump if he forced the fed to fund it.

[Cleverness]

Trump's & congress' bill was about $6 trillion and saved nobody from COVID-19. though, some of us middle class folk got $1200 checks and a nice unemployment incentive.

A better plan would have been to just give every adult $2000/mo for 12 months ($24,000 total) and zero nonsense COVID regulations.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?482239-Better-Stimulus-Package-House-Democrats-or-Cleverness

[falc39]

I am definitely in favor of no economic relief, and it’s for the same reasons I was never for economic relief when Bush and Obama said it was needed.

One thing I think people are misunderstanding is that government has complete control over economic demand. It doesn’t. Even if government were to open everything up completely, that does not mean people will choose to return to normal activity because government said they can. I am not stepping in a gym anytime soon no matter who tells me I should. Nor will I sit and eat in a crowded indoor restaurant. I’ve learned to save and get by with non-necessary things and in many ways it has had a positive effect on my life. For decades, us Americans have lived a largely (no pun intended) over-consumptive lifestyle. This is actually a great opportunity for many to take a deep long look into that and ask why that is.

[Cleverness]

I am definitely in favor of no economic relief, and it’s for the same reasons I was never for economic relief when Bush and Obama said it was needed.

One thing I think people are misunderstanding is that government has complete control over economic demand. It doesn’t. Even if government were to open everything up completely, that does not mean people will choose to return to normal activity because government said they can. I am not stepping in a gym anytime soon no matter who tells me I should. Nor will I sit and eat in a crowded indoor restaurant. I’ve learned to save and get by with non-necessary things and in many ways it has had a positive effect on my life. For decades, us Americans have lived a largely (no pun intended) over-consumptive lifestyle. This is actually a great opportunity for many to take a deep long look into that and ask why that is.

And I hope that your bolded decision has nothing to do with COVID-19.

Anyways, if the gov't had zero COVID-19 regulations, things would go back to normal much quicker than with our current pseudo-scientific approach.

20,000,000 people gathered in masses in May/June and zero known COVID-19 hospitalizations/deaths from it. Then 500,000 (high % of old, obese men) gathered in Sturgis in bars, concerts, gatherings, etc, and 1 known hospitalization from it over 45 days.


Following the science, the plan should have always been:

No lockdowns
No masks
No school closures
No bailouts
No business restrictions
No bullshit

[Shogon]

I’ve always said this when it comes to big projects that need to get done like infrastructure. It doesn’t need to be on budget paid with tax dollars when the fed can just cough it up. All though I’m not for a border wall I would respect Trump if he forced the fed to fund it.

Holy shit you're an actual idiot.

If the fed prints money, our asses pay for it indirectly. So it doesn't matter if we're taxed directly or if they inflate it away indirectly, either way we're paying.

It doesn't just blink into existence. IT WAS A SARCASTIC POST.

**** me. The ignorance on this topic is literally overwhelming.

[diamenz]

Holy shit you're an actual idiot.

If the fed prints money, our asses pay for it indirectly. So it doesn't matter if we're taxed directly or if they inflate it away indirectly, either way we're paying.

It doesn't just blink into existence. IT WAS A SARCASTIC POST.

**** me. The ignorance on this topic is literally overwhelming.

everyone knows that 'we the people' end up footing the bill for everything. you really think people are ignorant to this fact? the question is whether or not big spending in the moment is worth suffering for in the long run. so simply put, raise taxes and save those small businesses, or let them fail.

[Shogon]

everyone knows that 'we the people' end up footing the bill for everything. you really think people are ignorant to this fact? the question is whether or not big spending in the moment is worth suffering for in the long run. so simply put, raise taxes and save those small businesses, or let them fail.

No, not everyone does know that. Some people think you just print money and that's all there is to it. It's just some magic horn of plenty that you can infinitely take from. People actually believe that shit because they don't know anything about money. They don't understand the difference between money and currency because to them it is the same thing and it's all just magically made. And who could blame them? Do you think any of this shit is taught in elementary or high school? Hell it's not even taught in college unless you specifically take an economics course AND EVEN THEN it's not examined as closely as it should be.

Literally only God knows how many people still believe that our currency is backed by gold despite officially and forever the final nail in the "off the gold standard coffin" being hammered in the 1970s.

If a business can't survive, you let it fail.

It doesn't matter if it's a big business or a small business.

Does that suck? Of course it does! Life isn't fair. But now we're talking about redistributing wealth on a massive federal scale. It's bullshit. It's point blank theft to burden U.S. citizens with the fact that a business couldn't survive because they didn't have the capital to do so. Yes, it is not that business' fault that COVID hit and they got ****ed in the ass, but that doesn't mean that the burden of that should then be lumped onto the taxpayers. It's asinine. They should have had more capital, they should have willfully shut down, or they should have had better insurance. Make better choices.

[diamenz]

No, not everyone does know that. Some people think you just print money and that's all there is to it. It's just some magic horn of plenty that you can infinitely take from. People actually believe that shit because they don't know anything about money. They don't understand the difference between money and currency because to them it is the same thing and it's all just magically made. And who could blame them? Do you think any of this shit is taught in elementary or high school? Hell it's not even taught in college unless you specifically take an economics course AND EVEN THEN it's not examined as closely as it should be.

If a business can't survive, you let it fail.

It doesn't matter if it's a big business or a small business.

Does that suck? Of course it does! Life isn't fair. But now we're talking about redistributing wealth on a massive federal scale. It's bullshit.

well, don't unprecedented times call for drastic measures? restaurants and bars are failing through no fault of their own. the state tells them 'shut it down'', or function at 25% capacity... that's obviously not sustainable.

state gov: function @ 25% capacity because covid.

restaurant owner: that's not sustainable.

state and federal gov: then die.


Does that suck? Of course it does! Life isn't fair. But now we're talking about redistributing wealth on a massive federal scale. It's bullshit.

i hear you, but it's so ****ing wrong. these small business owners did everything right for themselves, and the state lockdowns kill them off.

[Shogon]

well, don't unprecedented times call for drastic measures? restaurants and bars are failing through no fault of their own. the state tells them 'shut it down'', or function at 25% capacity... that's obviously not sustainable.

state gov: function @ 25% capacity because covid.

restaurant owner: that's not sustainable.

state and federal gov: then die.



i hear you, but it's so ****ing wrong. these small business owners did everything right for themselves, and the state lockdowns kill them off.

Well the state shouldn't be locking them down in the first place. If this thing was more serious, then ok, but it's not a 50% mortality rate or anywhere close and we've known that for months and months. The shutdowns might have been rational for about 30 days... and after that we should have opened up.

Here's the other thing, though, even without the shutdowns, restaurants would be down across the board... many if not most still to the point of closure. How many people are going out to eat and dining in as much as they did 12 months ago? What percentage of people? 10%? 25%? Hell, even 50% is still massive. I don't know, but there has been a massive reduction and it goes far beyond the government mandated shutdowns.

[diamenz]

Well the state shouldn't be locking them down in the first place. If this thing was more serious, then ok, but it's not a 50% mortality rate or anywhere close and we've known that for months and months. The shutdowns might have been rational for about 30 days... and after that we should have opened up.

Here's the other thing, though, even without the shutdowns, restaurants would be down across the board... many if not most still to the point of closure. How many people are going out to eat and dining in as much as they did 12 months ago? What percentage of people? 10%? 25%? Hell, even 50% is still massive. I don't know, but there has been a massive reduction and it goes far beyond the government mandated shutdowns.

fair point, and there's no sight of people's comfort levels getting better any time soon. obviously, the worst of the economic fallout is yet to come. it's tapered off since the hardcore lockdowns during the spring, but it's still steady as she goes.

[Norcaliblunt]

Holy shit you're an actual idiot.

If the fed prints money, our asses pay for it indirectly. So it doesn't matter if we're taxed directly or if they inflate it away indirectly, either way we're paying.

It doesn't just blink into existence. IT WAS A SARCASTIC POST.

**** me. The ignorance on this topic is literally overwhelming.

And we could have mass work projects for the money. Infrastructure, jobs, tangible assets, etc. You know modern civilization. The fed is what it is right now, so you can either use that credit creating capability for something productive or not. But money is getting lent and inflation is happening one way or another with the present system we have. Yes we could end the central bank, have competing currencies and deal with the pros and cons of that, but damn homie why do you always act like such a bitch. It’s like you just read “The Creature From Jekyll Island” and think you’re cool. Lol.

[Cleverness]

Does that suck? Of course it does! Life isn't fair. But now we're talking about redistributing wealth on a massive federal scale. It's bullshit. It's point blank theft to burden U.S. citizens with the fact that a business couldn't survive because they didn't have the capital to do so. Yes, it is not that business' fault that COVID hit and they got ****ed in the ass, but that doesn't mean that the burden of that should then be lumped onto the taxpayers. It's asinine. They should have had more capital, they should have willfully shut down, or they should have had better insurance. Make better choices.

Not COVID's fault and they should have never willfully shut down it either.

It's the government's fault for following the CCP pseudoscience playbook and forcing businesses to close or obey absurd pseudo-scientific regulations.

And I guess ultimately our fault for giving up our liberty and freedom based on irrational fear and hysteria.

[Nanners]

Following the science, the plan should have always been:

No lockdowns
No masks
No school closures
No bailouts
No business restrictions
No bullshit

https://i.imgur.com/dhMeAzK.gif

[falc39]

And we could have mass work projects for the money. Infrastructure, jobs, tangible assets, etc. You know modern civilization. The fed is what it is right now, so you can either use that credit creating capability for something productive or not. But money is getting lent and inflation is happening one way or another with the present system we have. Yes we could end the central bank, have competing currencies and deal with the pros and cons of that, but damn homie why do you always act like such a bitch. It’s like you just read “The Creature From Jekyll Island” and think you’re cool. Lol.

Strawman? No one here is saying to do this. The main topic here is bailouts for businesses, right?