Trump paid no income tax in 10 of last 15 years

[BurningHammer]

And paid in 2016 and 2017 for $750 each, according to New York Time investigation (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html).


Among the key findings of The Times’s investigation:

Mr. Trump paid no federal income taxes in 11 of 18 years that The Times examined. In 2017, after he became president, his tax bill was only $750.

He has reduced his tax bill with questionable measures, including a $72.9 million tax refund that is the subject of an audit by the Internal Revenue Service.

Many of his signature businesses, including his golf courses, report losing large amounts of money — losses that have helped him to lower his taxes.

The financial pressure on him is increasing as hundreds of millions of dollars in loans he personally guaranteed are soon coming due.

Even while declaring losses, he has managed to enjoy a lavish lifestyle by taking tax deductions on what most people would consider personal expenses, including residences, aircraft and $70,000 in hairstyling for television.

Ivanka Trump, while working as an employee of the Trump Organization, appears to have received “consulting fees” that also helped reduce the family’s tax bill.

As president, he has received more money from foreign sources and U.S. interest groups than previously known. The records do not reveal any previously unreported connections to Russia

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/27/us/trump-taxes-takeaways.html

A visualization of trumps finances over time. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes-timeline.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

Trump has denied it as "fake news" as always. :ohwell:

[RRR3]

Capitalism is a disease that must be eradicated.

[KennyPowers]

He sounds really smart

[BurningHammer]

He sounds really smart

Trump did say it. :D


During his first general election debate against Democrat Hillary Clinton in 2016, Clinton said that perhaps Trump wasn't releasing his tax returns because he had paid nothing in federal taxes.

Trump interrupted her to say, "That makes me smart."

[starface]

Well, if he broke any laws, then obviously he’ll have to face the consequences.

If he didnt... then I dont see anything to get upset with Trump over. He didnt write the tax code.

Everyone wears clothes and use smart phones that come from sweatshops and are sold by companies like Amazon and Apple, and you dont have a problem with it when youre payin those low ass prices on Black Friday.

Betas are just alphas without the talent and balls. Theyre not more “righteous” or “ethical” :roll:

People basically have two choices to improve their comparative status in society. Either improve and move up... or reign other people in.

It’s a legit choice every man faces. And for less talented, mobile men... the choice is clear. Dont let other men get too far ahead, where you cannot go.

It is the constant push and pull of the human experience.

It is the ying and the yang.

Namaste.

[~primetime~]

I've been saying for years now, if and when Trump's taxes become public it will not expose Trump himself of any wrong doing...it will expose our joke of a tax system.

Most people know our tax system is a ridiculous mess, but people need to see things with their own eyes before anything is done.

[Pushxx]

Capitalism is good it's the government that gets in the way of capitalism that creates crony capitalism. It's easier to start a business in communist China than America because of red tape and regulation. Free markets create lower prices, more jobs, and higher quality than socialism.

[starface]

I've been saying for years now, if and when Trump's taxes become public it will not expose Trump himself of any wrong doing...it will expose our joke of a tax system.

Most people know our tax system is a ridiculous mess, but people need to see things with their own eyes before anything is done.

Who, specifically, is going to push for change based on this news story?

You? A guy who constantly talks about buying stocks, and presumably takes advantage of every deduction he can when cashing out? Are you and the rest of the middle class gonna make a big push to give away more of your stock portfolio to the government?

The media? Theyre in the moneymaking game too and controlled by billionaires. Their whole shtick is to appease and gain the trust of the left wing masses with identity politics ‘progressivism’, not financial concessions.

Congress? :roll:

Antifa? No.

Random trailer trash? No.

Gang bangers in CHI town? No.

Those are your options homie.

That’s America.

Tell me who you think is gonna make it happen.

[BurningHammer]

I've been saying for years now, if and when Trump's taxes become public it will not expose Trump himself of any wrong doing...it will expose our joke of a tax system.

Most people know our tax system is a ridiculous mess, but people need to see things with their own eyes before anything is done.

Rich people has abused loopholes to avoid taxes for years. It is nothing new. That shouldn't be an excuse to refuse to reveal his tax records neither.

[~primetime~]

When there is enough noise, politicians hear, and then push. If enough people cry "Marijuana should be legal!" Then things start to happen.

I mean people have already been saying the rich should be taxes more... this might be the final nail

[starface]

When there is enough noise, politicians hear, and then push. If enough people cry "Marijuana should be legal!" Then things start to happen.

I mean people have already been saying the rich should be taxes more... this might be the final nail


Great analogy.

The most powerful people in the country and their political minions really put their personal fortunes at risk by relaxing marijuana laws. It’s a super high risk, paradigm shifting political milestone.

It’s exactly like jacking up the income tax.

I cant see any difference between the two.

[kabar]

"In 2017, the president’s $750. contribution to the operations of the U.S. government was dwarfed by the $15,598 he or his companies paid in Panama, the $145,400 in India and the $156,824 in the Philippines."
Very MAGA of Trump if true.

[~primetime~]

actually...these claims are pretty damning for Trump himself, hundreds of millions in debt and never an actual billionaire, it's all show...but his lawyer is claim it's all BS

Some are saying the entire reason he ran for Pres was because he was buried in debt and was just trying to gain publicity...he never expected to win

might have to wait for the dust to settle on this one...lots of shit floating around right now

[bobopenguin]

if this is real, Hillary Clinton would have won the presidency election back in 2016.

[starface]

actually...these claims are pretty damning for Trump himself, hundreds of millions in debt and never an actual billionaire, it's all show...but his lawyer is claim it's all BS

Some are saying the entire reason he ran for Pres was because he was buried in debt and was just trying to gain publicity...he never expected to win

might have to wait for the dust to settle on this one...lots of shit floating around right now

I mean I think it’s been obvious for a while that a big part of his billionaire persona is inflated. That’s what he does. He’s a showman and a walking brand name. I was personally never under the impression he was John Rockerfeller. Not sure who was.

Also, it’s true a lot of businesses - and countries - operate habitually in the red. Uber and Lyft are valued in the mega billions and they have yet to report a profitable year. Businesses are constantly borrowing and reinvesting. It’s hardly a revelation that someone like Trump would be in debt.

That said, I have no idea what Trump’s true financial situation is and obviously I dont care personally. If Im not mistaken he does donate his Presidential salary back to the gov each year, which is something like 475k. Seems hard to imagine hes genuinely strapped for personal cash.

[Cleverness]

So let me get this straight

Trump tax returns were leaked (illegally?)

No evidence of Russian collusion
No evidence of doing anything illegal (not even an allegation?)
Made no income as President (net worth plummeted)

I wouldn't be surprised if this was leaked by Trump himself



Capitalism is good it's the government that gets in the way of capitalism that creates crony capitalism. It's easier to start a business in communist China than America because of red tape and regulation. Free markets create lower prices, more jobs, and higher quality than socialism.

:rockon:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ei94wOnUwAA4yp_?format=jpg&name=small

[imdaman99]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ei94wOnUwAA4yp_?format=jpg&name=small

What about when Politicians ask for donations? Is this capitalism?

[BigKobeFan]

I blame hillary for the tax codes

[Kblaze8855]

Of course you claim your losses to avoid paying taxes. Who wouldn’t? It’s perfectly understandable to me. Maybe not if you’re also talking about other people doing it(say....the people at Amazon). Did anyone think trump wouldn’t release his taxes if they didn’t have shit like this? He’s still lying about not being able to release returns since he’s under audit. He said it today. If it wouldn’t be damaging he’d do it tomorrow. This is about what I expected. Rich guy ducking taxes? Trump lying about taxes? Neither of those are shocking and Trump voters will either call it fake or say they don’t care. It’s gonna take a lot more than this to make a difference.

[Pointguard]

So let me get this straight

Trump tax returns were leaked (illegally?)

No they weren't leaked. This is just the first report in a series. It apparently only deals with certain pages. If Trump has said it was fake news it means that it affected him.


No evidence of Russian collusion.
Not necessarily.


No evidence of doing anything illegal (not even an allegation?)
Made no income as President (net worth plummeted)



I wouldn't be surprised if this was leaked by Trump himself

You believe that he's been audited the last ten years?

[Pointguard]

Of course you claim your losses to avoid paying taxes. Who wouldn’t? It’s perfectly understandable to me. Maybe not if you’re also talking about other people doing it(say....the people at Amazon). Did anyone think trump wouldn’t release his taxes if they didn’t have shit like this? He’s still lying about not being able to release returns since he’s under audit. He said it today. If it wouldn’t be damaging he’d do it tomorrow. This is about what I expected. Rich guy ducking taxes? Trump lying about taxes? Neither of those are shocking and Trump voters will either call it fake or say they don’t care. It’s gonna take a lot more than this to make a difference.

But it means he's been losing money for the last 15 years. On top of his several chapter 11 earlier in life. The audit was about him claiming 72.9 million and RECIEVING that tax return. Who paid for that? In 2018 he made 435 million and claimed he 47 million in losses. This isn't something to just pass over lightly.

[Kblaze8855]

I know what it means. I just don’t find it shocking. It’s exactly the kinda thing I assumed was on his returns. He’s not fighting for 5 years to keep them hidden for nothing.

Im not saying to take it lightly...I’m saying we can probably not act surprised.

[Pointguard]

I know what it means. I just don’t find it shocking. It’s exactly the kinda thing I assumed was on his returns. He’s not fighting for 5 years to keep them hidden for nothing.

Im not saying to take it lightly...I’m saying we can probably not act surprised.

I was addressing your statement about "to make a difference." Its obvious that you believe 100's of millions paid by tax payers to him isn't enough to make a difference? Did I misunderstand you? His investments and where they are, is what I thought would do him in and why he was hiding them.

[BigKobeFan]

But it means he's been losing money for the last 15 years. On top of his several chapter 11 earlier in life. The audit was about him claiming 72.9 million and RECIEVING that tax return. Who paid for that? In 2018 he made 435 million and claimed he 47 million in losses. This isn't something to just pass over lightly.

There was a documentary that stated that he has been losing money on trump tower for over 10 years when the recession hit

And hes been writing off those losses for years

[Pointguard]

There was a documentary that stated that he has been losing money on trump tower for over 10 years when the recession hit

And hes been writing off those losses for years

We have been paying for his yacht or some other $100 million dollar purchase while he's earned millions. He can sell things if he's losing money.

[Lakers Legend#32]

In 2019 Trump paid $129,250 more to Stormy Daniels than he did to the US government.

[Nanners]

When there is enough noise, politicians hear, and then push. If enough people cry "Marijuana should be legal!" Then things start to happen.

I mean people have already been saying the rich should be taxes more... this might be the final nail


The difference between marijuana legislation and tax reform, is that while the billionaires who write our laws and control our politicians dont really care whether or not marijuana is legal, their #1 issue is protecting their ability to increase their obscene wealth by as much as possible.

Sure there are a handful of billionaires like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet who pretend that they want to pay more in taxes... yet they use every trick in the book to lower their tax burdens (like donating money to your own charity), and they never support politicians like Bernie who want to raise their taxes.

[ItsMillerTime]

Trump and the rich elite are the real looters of this country. Get insane tax breaks for corporations, buildings, projects, etc and then pay $0 back to the Gov. Fvck Trump and anyone that stands with him.

[DoctorP]

Shocking. Not.

[Nanners]

Trump and the rich elite are the real looters of this country. Get insane tax breaks for corporations, buildings, projects, etc and then pay $0 back to the Gov. Fvck Trump and anyone that stands with him.

Trump didnt create the tax system (at least not directly, he probably lobbied (aka bribed) politicians to enact tax schemes that would benefit him, just like every other billionaire douchebag in this country.)

Instead of blaming the guy who followed a set of broken rules, perhaps we should blame politicians like Reagan, both Bushes, Bill Clinton, and Barrack Obama.... who were all elected by the american people and then went on to enact policies that contributed to the creation of our broken tax system which allows oligarchs like Trump (and every other billionaire) to pay virtually zero in federal income tax

[Axe]

I guess being shameless is part of being an american without a doubt but unlike cunning beings, at least he admits and knows how to tell people the truth.

[ItsMillerTime]

Trump didnt create the tax system (at least not directly, he probably lobbied (aka bribed) politicians to enact tax schemes that would benefit him, just like every other billionaire douchebag in this country.)

Instead of blaming the guy who followed a set of broken rules, perhaps we should blame politicians like Reagan, both Bushes, Bill Clinton, and Barrack Obama.... who were all elected by the american people and then went on to enact policies that contributed to the creation of our broken tax system which allows oligarchs like Trump (and every other billionaire) to pay virtually zero in federal income tax

Yes I am blaming them too. "Trump and the rich elite" - Trump didn't create the system but he is benefitting HEAVILY while now holding the Presidency. Red flags should be raised everywhere, but Americans are just like "haha that's a classic billionaire move!"

We're so apathetic to being abused by billionaires and politicians. We deserve everything we get.

[Derka]

Yeah so...this isn't nearly as damaging to Trump as the liberals need to imagine it is.

1.) I didn't need Trump's tax returns to know that he's a shitty businessman who is up to his eyeballs in personal debt. That's been common knowledge for decades now; millions of people voted for him knowing that's exactly what he was, even if they forced themselves to believe otherwise. The only thing he's ever been a true success at is having the acting chops to convincingly portray a successful, arrogant business mogul.

2.) Don't hate the player, hate the game. If we want people in the upper echelons to pay more taxes, the code needs fixing and the loopholes need closing. He's not doing anything the rest of us wouldn't do if we were in his spot. His accountants play the game by the rules as they're written by the politicians. Game recognize game.

We voted these people in and stood by while they did all of this. No sympathy from me; we asked for this.

[Nanners]

Yes I am blaming them too. "Trump and the rich elite" - Trump didn't create the system but he is benefitting HEAVILY while now holding the Presidency. Red flags should be raised everywhere, but Americans are just like "haha that's a classic billionaire move!"

We're so apathetic to being abused by billionaires and politicians. We deserve everything we get.

What exactly are Americans supposed to be saying?

"thats ****ed up that trump paid the amount of tax that he was required by law... he should have paid extra money just for the hell of it"

[~primetime~]

Yes Trump himself doesn't even do his own taxes... he pays a team of people to do them. That in itself shows our tax system is a mess...I shouldn't have to pay someone to do my taxes because there are so many facets to it.

Anyway after reading the entire NYT article...I am now thinking this doesn't say much about the tax system. They are claiming Trump hasn't been paying taxes simply because he doesn't make money. NYT claims he made over $400m with The Apprentice Show and dwindled all of those esrnings away in failed golf courses. They are saying most of his businesses are failures but he continues to put on the illusion that he is an amazing businesses man. This is about him not the taxes.

[Kblaze8855]

I was addressing your statement about "to make a difference." Its obvious that you believe 100's of millions paid by tax payers to him isn't enough to make a difference? Did I misunderstand you? His investments and where they are, is what I thought would do him in and why he was hiding them.

I meant in terms of his support. Trump voters don’t care what he does. On my local news site a woman said in the comments that she doesn’t care if he never paid taxes he’s getting her vote. Had plenty of likes. These are the same people who cheered Romney and others takes on the poor not paying(despite many of those cheering being among the poor).

None of this shit matters. A bunch of pro veteran Christians repping a guy who tells them he doesn’t **** with POWs and hands out non disclosure agreements to porn stars hes ****ing behind his wife’s back tell you he loves the troops and Christian values. You think they give 2 shits about his taxes? He explained long ago he can’t lose their support. He knows it. We should know it.

It would be an uphill fight to get some to believe he wore a blue suit if there were a picture of it.

It literally doesn’t matter what he does or says when so many will file it under fake news no matter what.

The concept of fake news is really the most brilliant strategy I may have ever seen in politics. When everything is a lie you don’t have to explain anything. I just wonder if future politicians will go that route and we just eliminate all accountability going forward since only positive stories are true.

Does scandal exist if you convince your followers nothing said about you was ever true and any source not on camera is fabricated?

Apply Trump standards to the past I’m not sure how many guys would ever have been caught and had to answer for anything politically. Just about the only thing he couldn’t survive is a molestation scandal like the republican speaker of the house from the Bush days we just all chose to not bring up again.

[~primetime~]

I meant in terms of his support. Trump voters don’t care what he does. On my local news site a woman said in the comments that she doesn’t care if he never paid taxes he’s getting her vote. Had plenty of likes. These are the same people who cheered Romney and others takes on the poor not paying(despite many of those cheering being among the poor).

None of this shit matters. A bunch of pro veteran Christians repping a guy who tells them he doesn’t **** with POWs and hands out non disclosure agreements to porn stars hes ****ing behind his wife’s back tell you he loves the troops and Christian values. You think they give 2 shits about his taxes? He explained long ago he can’t lose their support. He knows it. We should know it.

It would be an uphill fight to get some to believe he wore a blue suit if there were a picture of it.

It literally doesn’t matter what he does or says when so many will file it under fake news no matter what.

The concept of fake news is really the most brilliant strategy I may have ever seen in politics. When everything is a lie you don’t have to explain anything. I just wonder if future politicians will go that route and we just eliminate all accountability going forward since only positive stories are true.

Does scandal exist if you convince your followers nothing said about you was ever true and any source not on camera is fabricated?

Apply Trump standards to the past I’m not sure how many guys would ever have been caught and had to answer for anything politically. Just about the only thing he couldn’t survive is a molestation scandal like the republican speaker of the house from the Bush days we just all chose to not bring up again.

You're right it doesn't matter to devout Trumpers or Trump haters...nothing can change the minds of either side...but it could matter to anyone on the fence, and this election there aren't many swing voters, but there are some.

[Pointguard]

I meant in terms of his support. Trump voters don’t care what he does. On my local news site a woman said in the comments that she doesn’t care if he never paid taxes he’s getting her vote. Had plenty of likes. These are the same people who cheered Romney and others takes on the poor not paying(despite many of those cheering being among the poor).

None of this shit matters. A bunch of pro veteran Christians repping a guy who tells them he doesn’t **** with POWs and hands out non disclosure agreements to porn stars hes ****ing behind his wife’s back tell you he loves the troops and Christian values. You think they give 2 shits about his taxes? He explained long ago he can’t lose their support. He knows it. We should know it.

It would be an uphill fight to get some to believe he wore a blue suit if there were a picture of it.

It literally doesn’t matter what he does or says when so many will file it under fake news no matter what.

The concept of fake news is really the most brilliant strategy I may have ever seen in politics. When everything is a lie you don’t have to explain anything. I just wonder if future politicians will go that route and we just eliminate all accountability going forward since only positive stories are true.

Does scandal exist if you convince your followers nothing said about you was ever true and any source not on camera is fabricated?

Apply Trump standards to the past I’m not sure how many guys would ever have been caught and had to answer for anything politically. Just about the only thing he couldn’t survive is a molestation scandal like the republican speaker of the house from the Bush days we just all chose to not bring up again.

Well said.

[Nanners]

The concept of fake news is really the most brilliant strategy I may have ever seen in politics. When everything is a lie you don’t have to explain anything. I just wonder if future politicians will go that route and we just eliminate all accountability going forward since only positive stories are true.


Acknowledging reality is a "briliant strategy"? :oldlol:

The fake news angle wouldnt work if the mainstream media hadnt spent the past 2-3 decades spewing blatant lies on behalf of the govt, wealthy industries, the oligarchs, etc...

[Patrick Chewing]

Acknowledging reality is a "briliant strategy"? :oldlol:

The fake news angle wouldnt work if the mainstream media hadnt spent the past 2-3 decades spewing blatant lies on behalf of the govt, wealthy industries, the oligarchs, etc...

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3owzW9EZI8M3sz9s5O/giphy.gif

[Pointguard]

Yes Trump himself doesn't even do his own taxes... he pays a team of people to do them. That in itself shows our tax system is a mess...I shouldn't have to pay someone to do my taxes because there are so many facets to it.

Anyway after reading the entire NYT article...I am now thinking this doesn't say much about the tax system. They are claiming Trump hasn't been paying taxes simply because he doesn't make money. NYT claims he made over $400m with The Apprentice Show and dwindled all of those esrnings away in failed golf courses. They are saying most of his businesses are failures but he continues to put on the illusion that he is an amazing businesses man. This is about him not the taxes.

For me its not about him but the many who come on here and complain about welfare people while literally paying 200 million to him while he was making half a billion. It gives them no ground to stand on.

[Pointguard]

You're right it doesn't matter to devout Trumpers or Trump haters...nothing can change the minds of either side...but it could matter to anyone on the fence, and this election there aren't many swing voters, but there are some.

His devout followers are about 34%. I'd imagine a small percentage might get angry that they were paying for him, and his arrogant ways.

[rawimpact]

So write offs allowed him to be tax free essentially?

Why are we mad at him for this? You want him to pay more taxes willingly?

I mean didnt we just have a democrat in office for 8 years prior? Wasnt getting the rich to pay more one of his goals? Looks like he failed

[BigKobeFan]

So write offs allowed him to be tax free essentially?

Why are we mad at him for this? You want him to pay more taxes willingly?

I mean didnt we just have a democrat in office for 8 years prior? Wasnt getting the rich to pay more one of his goals? Looks like he failed

That's what i'm saying. You are mad at someone who's benefitting from the tax laws at the time. Who's to blame for that? Killer thats who.

[dn41]

The concept of fake news is really the most brilliant strategy I may have ever seen in politics. When everything is a lie you don’t have to explain anything. I just wonder if future politicians will go that route and we just eliminate all accountability going forward since only positive stories are true.


well the concept of fake news is actually nothing new. It was used to great "success" by the Nazis for example. They called it "Lügenpresse" which means "lying press". That this strategy even works shows how far we have fallen. People in 100 years will look back at us and think "what a bunch of absolut morons".

[Overdrive]

What exactly are Americans supposed to be saying?

"thats ****ed up that trump paid the amount of tax that he was required by law... he should have paid extra money just for the hell of it"

It was Trump who campaigned on "draining the swamp" and a huge part of the swamp is that the elites don't have to support the system they created.

It just shows that he is not "one of you" like he portrays himself all the time.

[Shogon]

It was Trump who campaigned on "draining the swamp" and a huge part of the swamp is that the elites don't have to support the system they created.

It just shows that he is not "one of you" like he portrays himself all the time.

Not paying taxes because of tax laws has nothing to do with "draining the swamp."

Like, what? lol.

[Nanners]

It was Trump who campaigned on "draining the swamp" and a huge part of the swamp is that the elites don't have to support the system they created.

It just shows that he is not "one of you" like he portrays himself all the time.

Remember when Obama promised "hope and change" and then passed a healthcare plan that was written by the Heritage Foundation and insurance industry for Mitt Romney? Remember how he promised to shut down Guantanamo and end our pointless foreign wars and then expanded the countries in which we were waging war from 3 to 7?

When was the last time that any president followed thru on their campaign promises?

Anyway, Trump has only been president for ~3.75 years... if he didnt didnt pay income tax in 10 of the last 15 years thats on our legislature.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Trump pays no taxes and then uses our money to go golfing?
Did I get that right?

[starface]

I meant in terms of his support. Trump voters don’t care what he does. On my local news site a woman said in the comments that she doesn’t care if he never paid taxes he’s getting her vote. Had plenty of likes. These are the same people who cheered Romney and others takes on the poor not paying(despite many of those cheering being among the poor).

None of this shit matters. A bunch of pro veteran Christians repping a guy who tells them he doesn’t **** with POWs and hands out non disclosure agreements to porn stars hes ****ing behind his wife’s back tell you he loves the troops and Christian values. You think they give 2 shits about his taxes? He explained long ago he can’t lose their support. He knows it. We should know it.

It would be an uphill fight to get some to believe he wore a blue suit if there were a picture of it.

It literally doesn’t matter what he does or says when so many will file it under fake news no matter what.

The concept of fake news is really the most brilliant strategy I may have ever seen in politics. When everything is a lie you don’t have to explain anything. I just wonder if future politicians will go that route and we just eliminate all accountability going forward since only positive stories are true.

Does scandal exist if you convince your followers nothing said about you was ever true and any source not on camera is fabricated?

Apply Trump standards to the past I’m not sure how many guys would ever have been caught and had to answer for anything politically. Just about the only thing he couldn’t survive is a molestation scandal like the republican speaker of the house from the Bush days we just all chose to not bring up again.

Wait, kblaze, you recall the origins of “Fake News” right??

It started with the ‘woke media’ discrediting any story published by a conservative outlet (Breitbart et al), and justifying the UNWILLINGNESS of CNN et al to run the story by claiming it was “Fake News” (when often it wasnt fake, just damaging to their own agenda). It eventually extended in mainstream parlance to any piece of information shared by conservative types on FB etc. The left was calling every story unpleasant to their image Fake News. Trump would share these articles on Twitter and everyone would claim “Fake News!”

It became a right wing meme which Trump then purposefully FLIPPED on these news outlets, knowing they would be aghast at the accusation and thereby proving their IMMENSE hypocrisy.

And now here we are a few years later, with Trump’s detractors essentially revising history and trying to paint him as the dictator and propagandist who brought “Fake News” to the fore, when it was in fact your very “allies” in the media.

Crazy how that works.

Orwell predicted it all.

[Overdrive]

Not paying taxes because of tax laws has nothing to do with "draining the swamp."

Like, what? lol.

I gave my explanation. Draining the swamp is Trumps term for killing the political nepotism in Washington, which is responsible for the lax tax laws on rich people. It's just another symptom of the swamp.

[rawimpact]

I gave my explanation. Draining the swamp is Trumps term for killing the political nepotism in Washington, which is responsible for the lax tax laws on rich people. It's just another symptom of the swamp.

No... it has to do with politicians financially benefiting from their laws.

It has nothing to do with the 1% -- most who've made their wealth without holding a government seat.

[Overdrive]

Remember when Obama promised "hope and change" and then passed a healthcare plan that was written by the Heritage Foundation and insurance industry for Mitt Romney? Remember how he promised to shut down Guantanamo and end our pointless foreign wars and then expanded the countries in which we were waging war from 3 to 7?

When was the last time that any president followed thru on their campaign promises?

Anyway, Trump has only been president for ~3.75 years... if he didnt didnt pay income tax in 10 of the last 15 years thats on our legislature.

Of course it is. Not saying it's on him, the business man. Obama was a shit president aswell nothing new here.

The problem is that people act like Trump is cut from a different cloth, while he is the establishment people hate so much and the very reason he got voted for - being anti establishment.

[Overdrive]

No... it has to do with politicians financially benefiting from their laws.

It has nothing to do with the 1% -- most who've made their wealth without holding a government seat.

Lobbyism doesn't exist. Wealthy elites aren't connected to politicians...

[rawimpact]

Lobbyism doesn't exist. Wealthy elites aren't connected to politicians...

in 2016,

he self-funded three quarters of his entire campaign and the remaining about from small donors

How about the democrats? Hilary spent record amount of money for her campaign -- how much of that came from lobbyist?

[Lakers Legend#32]

He's broke.
He's been living in our house.
And he's stealing from us.

[Overdrive]

in 2016,

he self-funded three quarters of his entire campaign and the remaining about from small donors

How about the democrats? Hilary spent record amount of money for her campaign -- how much of that came from lobbyist?

You can't get me with Hillary. I don't align with either party and I'm not from the US. Trump is a hypocrite. Hillary is a warmongering powerhungry snake.

As asked multiple times on this board. Why do his supporters try to portray him as some goodwilling, upright person? Why don't they admit he's a trash human being, just with the right policies for them? How hard is that?

[rawimpact]

You can't get me with Hillary. I don't align with either party and I'm not from the US. Trump is a hypocrite. Hillary is a warmongering powerhungry snake.

As asked multiple times on this board. Why do his supporters try to portray him as some goodwilling, upright person? Why don't they admit he's a trash human being, just with the right policies for them? How hard is that?


Dont take this personal, no one is trying to get you lol

i'm simply trying to tell you what made him more appealing over the other candidate

Americans are tired of life-long politicians promising them bullshit... that's all we've ever had. Trump when he ran was different. A non-lawyer, someone who has never held a public seat running -- it's refreshing. This is a threat to all life-long politicians, regardless of party. It means this opens the door to presidency to many more (including bloomberg).

No one thinks of him or any politician as a good person, but you have to put things in perspective. Is he better than the other option or not?

Are you voting for Biden then? Because I will tell you I am voting for Trump and it has nothing to do with how much taxes hes paid, what he says etc. etc.

[starface]

Of course it is. Not saying it's on him, the business man. Obama was a shit president aswell nothing new here.

The problem is that people act like Trump is cut from a different cloth, while he is the establishment people hate so much and the very reason he got voted for - being anti establishment.

NOBODY claims Trump is some kind of altruistic, lifelong populist. Nobody thinks that. Nobody.

What people point out, which you persistently refuse to accept, is that he's trying to do some good things right now for the American public. For WHATEVER reason that happens to be. As long as he's willing to do that, the rest doesn't matter. Maybe he's doing it for attention. Maybe he's doing it because his views have evolved as he's gotten older. Maybe he's doing it to avoid jailtime (as some conspiracy theories suggest).

Tighter border security doesn't improve his lot as a business person. Reducing foreign occupation isn't a cash grab. Improved trade deals don't stand to benefit the industries he's involved in. Taking controversial stands on social issues doesn't cull him any public relations favor; in fact, most corporate businesses steadfastly take the opposite approach, agreeing with social movements even as they spiral way out of control, to preserve their bottom line.

In fact, Trump himself DID simplify the tax code for everyone (tho it's obviously still very complicated). He increased the standard deduction which means people on the lower end can deduct more income without having to worry about receipts and accountants and so on. He also reduced the corporate tax rate which was THE HIGHEST IN THE WORLD. Most economists agreed long before Trump that was something that needed to be addressed.

You can't say his major Presidential policies have been tilted toward himself or toward the rich. It's a flat out lie.

But you made your "hey everyone look how smart and woke I am, because I'm betting against Trump's Presidency" bed four year ago. And now you're too embarrassed to admit you arent the thinker you want everyone to believe you are. You're stubbornly refusing to cooperate in honest, genuine, nonpartisan discussions because you dont want people to see how actually worthless you probably are in them. You need to keep living this reality where everything you predicted about Trump turned out to be true. When it wasn't.

Having a CITIZENRY like you is far more damaging and dangerous than having a President like Trump.

[RRR3]

I’m not sure why you guys think you can use the same arguments with me, Ralph_iel and Overdrive that you use for ItsMillerTime, TheMan and Bladefd. Not understanding the difference between people who are at minimum socialists (me and Ralph), social democrats (Overdrive) and liberals (Blade, TheMan, MillerTime) is just comical.

[RRR3]

This dude is really trying to tell a social democrat about stuff Trump did that protects workers as if they don’t support that stuff far more than any typical American :roll:

We know Trump has done some good things. He’s still a capitalist pig like the rest of them.

[starface]

This dude is really trying to tell a social democrat about stuff Trump did that protects workers as if they don’t support that stuff far more than any typical American :roll:

We know Trump has done some good things. He’s still a capitalist pig like the rest of them.


So are you, you've just been less successful at it.

Oops.

[RRR3]

So are you, you've just been less successful at it.

Oops.
I’m not a capitalist :confusedshrug:


Oops.

[rawimpact]

I’m not sure why you guys think you can use the same arguments with me, Ralph_iel and Overdrive that you use for ItsMillerTime, TheMan and Bladefd. Not understanding the difference between people who are at minimum socialists (me and Ralph), social democrats (Overdrive) and liberals (Blade, TheMan, MillerTime) is just comical.

Maybe because you guys are either voting for someone who has zero chance of winning
Or choose to for Biden because you dislike Trump but dont want to be held accountable for what policies and history that comes along with that selection

[Nanners]

I’m not sure why you guys think you can use the same arguments with me, Ralph_iel and Overdrive that you use for ItsMillerTime, TheMan and Bladefd.

Probably for the same reason that the jabronies you mention in this post think that theres no difference between a libertarian and a conservative...


Not understanding the difference between people who are at minimum socialists (me and Ralph), social democrats (Overdrive) and liberals (Blade, TheMan, MillerTime) is just comical.

as far as I can tell the only meaningful differences between yall is that you and MillerTime are reasonably intelligent and self-aware, while both Blade and TheMan should be required to wear a helmet at all times for their own safety

[Overdrive]

Dont take this personal, no one is trying to get you lol

i'm simply trying to tell you what made him more appealing over the other candidate

Americans are tired of life-long politicians promising them bullshit... that's all we've ever had. Trump when he ran was different. A non-lawyer, someone who has never held a public seat running -- it's refreshing. This is a threat to all life-long politicians, regardless of party. It means this opens the door to presidency to many more (including bloomberg).

No one thinks of him or any politician as a good person, but you have to put things in perspective. Is he better than the other option or not?

Are you voting for Biden then? Because I will tell you I am voting for Trump and it has nothing to do with how much taxes hes paid, what he says etc. etc.

As said. Non US citizen. I can't vote for anybody, but I would not vote for Biden. He's the same hypocrite POS politician as anyone.

If nobody thinks of him as a good person why are there posters writing essays defending his character?

And just because he's no career politician doesn't mean he doesn't act the same way. He's part of the same circle of friends the Clintons are.


NOBODY claims Trump is some kind of altruistic, lifelong populist. Nobody thinks that. Nobody.

What people point out, which you persistently refuse to accept, is that he's trying to do some good things right now for the American public. For WHATEVER reason that happens to be. As long as he's willing to do that, the rest doesn't matter. Maybe he's doing it for attention. Maybe he's doing it because his views have evolved as he's gotten older. Maybe he's doing it to avoid jailtime (as some conspiracy theories suggest).

Tighter border security doesn't improve his lot as a business person. Reducing foreign occupation isn't a cash grab. Improved trade deals don't stand to benefit the industries he's involved in. Taking controversial stands on social issues doesn't cull him any public relations favor; in fact, most corporate businesses steadfastly take the opposite approach, agreeing with social movements even as they spiral way out of control, to preserve their bottom line.

In fact, Trump himself DID simplify the tax code for everyone (tho it's obviously still very complicated). He increased the standard deduction which means people on the lower end can deduct more income without having to worry about receipts and accountants and so on. He also reduced the corporate tax rate which was THE HIGHEST IN THE WORLD. Most economists agreed long before Trump that was something that needed to be addressed.

You can't say his Presidential policies have been tilted toward himself or toward the rich. It's a flat out lie.

But you made your "hey everyone look how smart and woke I am, because I'm betting against Trump's Presidency" bed four year ago. And now you're too embarrassed to admit you arent the thinker you want everyone to believe you are. You're stubbornly refusing to cooperate in honest, genuine, nonpartisan discussions because you dont want people to see how actually worthless you probably are in them. You need to keep living this reality where everything you predicted about Trump turned out to be true. When it wasn't.

Having a CITIZENRY like you is far more damaging and dangerous than having a President like Trump.

Don't know how often I have to tell you that I acknowledge that Trump is more left leaning on quite some policies.
Don't know how often I have to tell you that I actually DGAF about LGBT stuff other than giving them the same rights, 3rd wave feminists who are destructive to their cause, BLM - see 3rd wave feminists - and politically correctness. I'm not woke. I'm a golden rule type. That's my credo and I want everyone to have equal chances, but no affirmative action. I think that's stupid.
Don't know how ofthe I have to tell you that I'm working hard for my money - industrial maintaince - and pay quite alot of taxes. I'm doing the opposite of damaging society. You on the other hand failed in selling bumper stickers, failed your razorblade business. Failed becoming an actor. Wrote a book no one reads. You live off whatever income and keep talking about people damaging society. You're afraid Berlin is too artsy, while you tried to become big in the most artificial place in the western world.
Don't know how often I have to tell you that I never was against Trump's presidency as it doesn't influence me one bit and I find him rather hilarious. Hillary would have been way worse. I said it quite often that your twoparty system is the root of a lot problems. How can anyone vote for Biden if he's against Trump? Biden is even shittier. Cast a vote for a 3rd party? Vote lost.

[starface]

I’m not a capitalist :confusedshrug:


Oops.


The computer youre typing on says otherwise. Unless youre on your phone, altho it’d be the same case.

Your clothes.

Your eyes glasses.

Your haircut.

The gas in your car.

The Whole Foods you eat at.

You shop with all of em and you pay with a bank card.


Youre a capitalist and have benefited TREMENDOUSLY from it. But others have benefited even more and that makes you hurt and angry and jealous. And you dont see a good way to personally get farther ahead in this system. You havent found anything you can reliably contribute.

Instead of looking inward, you just convince yourself the system you cant succeed in “evil” :lol

It’s a coping mechanism.

But weve been over this.

[starface]

As said. Non US citizen. I can't vote for anybody, but I would not vote for Biden. He's the same hypocrite POS politician as anyone.

If nobody thinks of him as a good person why are there posters writing essays defending his character?

And just because he's no career politician doesn't mean he doesn't act the same way. He's part of the same circle of friends the Clintons are.



Don't know how often I have to tell you that I acknowledge that Trump is more left leaning on quite some policies.
Don't know how often I have to tell you that I actually DGAF about LGBT stuff other than giving them the same rights, 3rd wave feminists who are destructive to their cause, BLM - see 3rd wave feminists - and politically correctness. I'm not woke. I'm a golden rule type. That's my credo and I want everyone to have equal chances, but no affirmative action. I think that's stupid.
Don't know how ofthe I have to tell you that I'm working hard for my money - industrial maintaince - and pay quite alot of taxes. I'm doing the opposite of damaging society. You on the other hand failed in selling bumper stickers, failed your razorblade business. Failed becoming an actor. Wrote a book no one reads. You live off whatever income and keep talking about people damaging society. You're afraid Berlin is too artsy, while you tried to become big in the most artificial place in the western world.
Don't know how often I have to tell you that I never was against Trump's presidency as it doesn't influence me one bit and I find him rather hilarious. Hillary would have been way worse. I said it quite often that your twoparty system is the root of a lot problems. How can anyone vote for Biden if he's against Trump? Biden is even shittier. Cast a vote for a 3rd party? Vote lost.


This is a backtrack off virtually every other political post Ive seen you make.

I’ll be sure to cite this post generously going forward when you return to your usual exaggerations, strawmen, idealizing, etc.

[Overdrive]

This is a backtrack off virtually every other political post Ive seen you make.

I’ll be sure to cite this post generously going forward when you return to your usual exaggerations, strawmen, idealizing, etc.

I posted the very same things already in some thread you posted some pic trying to get a rise out of liberals - you were quite surprised. It's no backtrack. It's in line with my views. You just mistake me for some american liberal, while I'm not.

Believing in equality doesn't mean to believe you have to go out on the streets in Vienna, Austria and scream in the name of George Floyd.
Believing in taxing the rich doesn't mean to sit at home smoking weed and collecting welfare cheques.

Everything I said here I said in the past multiple times.

[BigKobeFan]

I’m not a capitalist :confusedshrug:


Oops.

Keep saying you are not...but when we examine your closet at your mom's house, the truth will come out

[starface]

I posted the very same things already in some thread you posted some pic trying to get a rise out of liberals - you were quite surprised. It's no backtrack. It's in line with my views. You just mistake me for some american liberal, while I'm not.

Believing in equality doesn't mean to believe you have to go out on the streets in Vienna, Austria and scream in the name of George Floyd.
Believing in taxing the rich doesn't mean to sit at home smoking weed and collecting welfare cheques.

Everything I said here I said in the past multiple times.



So firstly: Why are you commenting so frequently on American politics in the first place?

Secondly: You only ever PROACTIVELY comment on “rich gotta pay fair share” or other communist talking points. I never see guys like you talking about the underlying factors of immigration, divisive social issues, etc until youre grudgingly forced to agree with them. The left as a whole is EXTREMELY quiet on these truths. And when someone on the right is skewered for a take on them, the left is more likely to use it as an attempt to join in a chance to attack someone on the right than to say “well wait a minute, actually that particular position is fair.”

You and R3 always talk about the easy stuff that sounds “righteous” to complain about, and never start with putting the cart before the horse. Theres no point to calling out the lack of socialist utopia, without FIRST calling out the fallacies many other leftists still believe in. You guys focus on the pie in the sky shit rather than the polarizing shit bc youre afraid to be called racist n shit.

[BigKobeFan]

So firstly: Why are you commenting so frequently on American politics in the first place?

Secondly: You only ever PROACTIVELY comment on “rich gotta pay fair share” or other communist talking points. I never see you talking about the underlying factors of immigration, divisive social issues, etc until youre forced to agree with them.

You and R3 always talk about the easy stuff that sounds “righteous” to complain about, and never start with putting the cart before the horse. Theres no point to calling out the lack of socialist utopia, without FIRST calling out the fallacies many other leftists still believe in. You guys focus on the pie in the sky shit rather than the polarizing shit bc youre afraid to be called racist n shit.

pack it up boys

[RRR3]

The computer youre typing on says otherwise. Unless youre on your phone, altho it’d be the same case.

Your clothes.

Your eyes glasses.

Your haircut.

The gas in your car.

The Whole Foods you eat at.

You shop with all of em and you pay with a bank card.


Youre a capitalist and have benefited TREMENDOUSLY from it. But others have benefited even more and that makes you hurt and angry and jealous. And you dont see a good way to personally get farther ahead in this system. You havent found anything you can reliably contribute.

Instead of looking inward, you just convince yourself the system you cant succeed in “evil” :lol

It’s a coping mechanism.

But weve been over this.
https://rairfoundation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Matt-Bors.jpg

[RRR3]

Probably for the same reason that the jabronies you mention in this post think that theres no difference between a libertarian and a conservative...



as far as I can tell the only meaningful differences between yall is that you and MillerTime are reasonably intelligent and self-aware, while both Blade and TheMan should be required to wear a helmet at all times for their own safety
The difference is Ralph and I want to abolish capitalism, Overdrive wants a mixed economy and the liberals just want a polite guy in the White House so they can pretend everything is ok.

[starface]

The difference is Ralph and I want to abolish capitalism, Overdrive wants a mixed economy and the liberals just want a polite guy in the White House so they can pretend everything is ok.


Imagine picking the worst option and then flexing about it :lol

[RRR3]

So firstly: Why are you commenting so frequently on American politics in the first place?

Secondly: You only ever PROACTIVELY comment on “rich gotta pay fair share” or other communist talking points. I never see guys like you talking about the underlying factors of immigration, divisive social issues, etc until youre grudgingly forced to agree with them. The left as a whole is EXTREMELY quiet on these truths. And when someone on the right is skewered for a take on them, the left is more likely to use it as an attempt to join in a chance to attack someone on the right than to say “well wait a minute, actually that particular position is fair.”

You and R3 always talk about the easy stuff that sounds “righteous” to complain about, and never start with putting the cart before the horse. Theres no point to calling out the lack of socialist utopia, without FIRST calling out the fallacies many other leftists still believe in. You guys focus on the pie in the sky shit rather than the polarizing shit bc youre afraid to be called racist n shit.
This guy :lol

Pretty sure Overdrive and I agree with you on Trump’s stances that protect workers. I don’t support ICE or anything but building the wall was a good idea, especially considering the system we live in. He’s done some good stuff on trade as well as we’ve both acknowledged. Do we have to shriek at TheMan and Bladefd for you to not call us hypocrites? You guys are already doing a good job screaming at them, I’m not sure why I need to rehash the things you’re saying to them just so you can feel like we meet your definition of being “real”. We don’t align with you either, you are even further to the right us than liberals in many ways.

[starface]

https://rairfoundation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Matt-Bors.jpg


Then again if you think a gibberish cartoon like this makes anything resembling a clever point...

I can understand your frustrations with a merit based society.

[RRR3]

Imagine picking the worst option and then flexing about it :lol
Capitalism is literally going to destroy life on earth but ok.

[starface]

This guy :lol

Pretty sure Overdrive and I agree with you on Trump’s stances that protect workers. I don’t support ICE or anything but building the wall was a good idea, especially considering the system we live in. He’s done some good stuff on trade as well as we’ve both acknowledged. Do we have to shriek at TheMan and Bladefd for you to not call us hypocrites? You guys are already doing a good job screaming at them, I’m not sure why I need to rehash the things you’re saying to them just so you can feel like we meet your definition of being “real”. We don’t align with you either, you are even further to the right us than liberals in many ways.


Bernie completely dropped the issue of immigration once his candidacy went mainstream and I didnt hear a peep about it from his base.

Bernie tried to make Trump’s trade deal efforts seem like a bad thing bc he was jealous af Trump got some credit for the stuff Bernie wanted credit for.


All Bernie cares about is power and personal credit. Just like Trump.

Yet you still worship Bernie but think Trump is a “capitalist pig” :roll:

[bladefd]

What worries me..


[Trump] appears to have paid off none of the principal of the Trump Tower mortgage, and the full $100 million comes due in 2022. And if he loses his dispute with the I.R.S. over the 2010 refund, he could owe the government more than $100 million (including interest on the original amount).

In the 1990s, Mr. Trump nearly ruined himself by personally guaranteeing hundreds of millions of dollars in loans, and he has since said that he regretted doing so. But he has taken the same step again, his tax records show. He appears to be responsible for loans totaling $421 million, most of which is coming due within four years.

Should he win re-election, his lenders could be placed in the unprecedented position of weighing whether to foreclose on a sitting president. Whether he wins or loses, he will probably need to find new ways to use his brand — and his popularity among tens of millions of Americans — to make money.

Think about it. He owes hundreds of millions of dollars to various parties, much of which he owes in 2022. The banks, the IRS, foreign entities, private lenders.

Where is he going to conjure up that money? He could very well use his position as US president to take unprecedented steps against his lenders and use the office of the presidency for his personal benefit of repaying his personal bills/debts. And he has been known to do that. He has also fired many of the watchdog Inspector Generals who were assigned to watch over the politicians and government officials.

Trump has no business being the president or being in any position of power when he owes hundreds of millions in debt (which we know of from his records) that he will owe while in his 2nd term if he wins. That's dangerous and a recipe for disaster.

[Overdrive]

So firstly: Why are you commenting so frequently on American politics in the first place?

Secondly: You only ever PROACTIVELY comment on “rich gotta pay fair share” or other communist talking points. I never see guys like you talking about the underlying factors of immigration, divisive social issues, etc until youre grudgingly forced to agree with them. The left as a whole is EXTREMELY quiet on these truths. And when someone on the right is skewered for a take on them, the left is more likely to use it as an attempt to join in a chance to attack someone on the right than to say “well wait a minute, actually that particular position is fair.”

You and R3 always talk about the easy stuff that sounds “righteous” to complain about, and never start with putting the cart before the horse. Theres no point to calling out the lack of socialist utopia, without FIRST calling out the fallacies many other leftists still believe in. You guys focus on the pie in the sky shit rather than the polarizing shit bc youre afraid to be called racist n shit.

Ad 1: There aren't many threads on foreign politics. A russian opposition leader was poisoned few weeks ago. There wasn't even a thread. So it's pretty much the only thing to talk about on this board. Also the US are the #1 foreign politics headline on almost any news outlet barring some catastrophe like in Beirut. So it will be topic anywhere.

Ad 2: I talked about immigration in the past from a personal, emotional standpoint but also a rational one. Divisive social issues are one of the most talked about politicial things by me, you just don't agree with my stance.

I don't talk about the pie in the sky. I live in what you would call a socialist utopia - although it's becoming worse. I'm just showing there's a different way to handle things.

[RRR3]

Bernie completely dropped the issue of immigration once his candidacy went mainstream and I didnt hear a peep about it from his base.

Bernie tried to make Trump’s trade deal efforts seem like a bad thing bc he was jealous af Trump got some credit for the stuff Bernie wanted credit for.


All Bernie cares about is power and personal credit. Just like Trump.

Yet you still worship Bernie but think Trump is a “capitalist pig” :roll:
Bernie is pretty far to the right of me and I’m not a huge fan of his politics. Just because I find them acceptable doesn’t mean I like them. Bernie is a bit of a centrist on the economic scale. He wants to reform capitalism instead of abolishing it. I strongly disagree with him there but I’m willing to vote for him.

[starface]

Capitalism is literally going to destroy life on earth but ok.


I am in favor of more stringent environmental regulations to some extent than things like finance and other areas. The problem is there are still myriad ways for regulations that “sound nice” to be exploited for political gain. The best way to do it is still make smarter choices as a consumer. This achieves results AND preserves freedoms. It’s a win-win.

Crying to the government to make a law that everyone has to do things your way is generally some pvssy shit. Obviously a modest amount is necessary and I dont support a completely deregulated society. Things are fairly reasonable where they are now. A smarter citizenry working within the CURRENT framework would be perfect.

You think theres a system that fixes the flaws of ignorance, apathy, weakness etc.

There isnt.

Sometimes people with those qualities simply have to get run over. It’s nature’s way.

Life on the Blue Planet baby boi.

[starface]

Bernie is pretty far to the right of me and I’m not a huge fan of his politics. Just because I find them acceptable doesn’t mean I like them. Bernie is a bit of a centrist on the economic scale. He wants to reform capitalism instead of abolishing it. I strongly disagree with him there but I’m willing to vote for him.


So you admit this as a clear reversal then? Bc as recently as a month ago your were still sucking his cawque vigorously.

[rawimpact]

What worries me..



Think about it. He owes hundreds of millions of dollars to various parties, much of which he owes in 2022. The banks, the IRS, foreign entities, private lenders.

Where is he going to conjure up that money? He could very well use his position as US president to take unprecedented steps against his lenders and use the office of the presidency for his personal benefit of repaying his personal bills/debts. And he has been known to do that. He has also fired many of the watchdog Inspector Generals who were assigned to watch over the politicians and government officials.

Trump has no business being the president or being in any position of power when he owes hundreds of millions in debt (which we know of from his records) that he will owe while in his 2nd term if he wins. That's dangerous and a recipe for disaster.

LOL

The US is in trillion+ of debt

He is perfectly suited to continue that more so than others.

[RRR3]

So you admit this as a clear reversal then? Bc as recently as a month ago your were still sucking his cawque vigorously.
More like I was defending him as clearly superior to pretty much any other American politician outside of a handful of others. The standards aren’t exactly high.

[RRR3]

LOL

The US is in trillion+ of debt

He is perfectly suited to continue that more so than others.
:lol

[starface]

More like I was defending him as clearly superior to pretty much any other American politician outside of a handful of others. The standards aren’t exactly high.


:coleman:

[Rocket]

I’m not a capitalist :confusedshrug:


Oops.

Truer words have never been typed. A "man" who still lives with his parents is definitely not contributing to capitalism. You may want to get a job and live on your own before you bash a system of course I guess that would mean you would have to get off your ass and work instead of looking for handouts.

[rawimpact]

Truer words have never been typed. A "man" who still lives with his parents is definitely not contributing to capitalism. You may want to get a job and live on your own before you bash a system of course I guess that would mean you would have to get off your ass and work instead of looking for handouts.


I don't think anyone who has achieved financial success in life would say such a thing.

[RRR3]

Truer words have never been typed. A "man" who still lives with his parents is definitely not contributing to capitalism. You may want to get a job and live on your own before you bash a system of course I guess that would mean you would have to get off your ass and work instead of looking for handouts.
Aren’t you Christian? I hope you’re aware Jesus was at minimum a socialist. It’s really funny you don’t understand why a lot of my generation still lives with our parents is BECAUSE of capitalism.

[Nanners]

I am in favor of more stringent environmental regulations to some extent than things like finance and other areas. The problem is there are still myriad ways for regulations that “sound nice” to be exploited for political gain. The best way to do it is still make smarter choices as a consumer. This achieves results AND preserves freedoms. It’s a win-win.

This is a really good point, and a point that seems lost on a lot of people.

Virtually every piece of environmental legislation that has been introduced in the past few decades has nothing to do with actually protecting the environment... these pieces of legislation are almost always just schemes for oligarchs and their corporations to make money (the only thing they care about) while simultaneously fooling the public into thinking they give a single **** about the environment (or anything other than their own bank account).

Just look at the people who make the most noise about global warming - Al Gore, Bill Gates, Leo DiCaprio... etc. These people own their own jets or fly private, they vacation on private yachts, they own half a dozen mansions and countless expensive cars, and they employ an entire staff of people dedicated to maintaining their lifestyle (security, chefs, assistants/secretaries, accountants, etc). I have never heard of any billionaire who behaves like an environmentalist, and calling these phony celebrities and billionaires "environmentalists" is like calling Jeffrey Dahmer "pro life"... every single one of these ultra wealthy "environmentalists" has a carbon footprint equivalent to a small city, but pay no attention to that fact, its everyone else that needs to get their emissions under control.

I am no fan of Greta, and I think its incredibly ****ed up the way her family has turned their child into some kind of marketing tool (especially considering the list of mental ailments she is suffering)... but at least she has enough sense to fly commercial. Our dumb**** hypocrite billionaire environmentalists like Bill Gates could learn a thing or two from her.

[Rocket]

Aren’t you Christian? I hope you’re aware Jesus was at minimum a socialist. It’s really funny you don’t understand why a lot of my generation still lives with our parents is BECAUSE of capitalism.
https://media.tenor.com/images/a70311dbf3832e99bff4ec351805955c/tenor.gif

[RRR3]

https://media.tenor.com/images/a70311dbf3832e99bff4ec351805955c/tenor.gif
I’m not basing this off of nothing.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?482299-Communist-Heroes-of-the-Past-Jesus-Christ


Jesus would think you were a despicable, greedy human being. Just a fact.

[Overdrive]

I’m not basing this off of nothing.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?482299-Communist-Heroes-of-the-Past-Jesus-Christ


Jesus would think you were a despicable, greedy human being. Just a fact.

Jesus would have to forgive all those american bible thumpers. If they really believe the dude in the NT is some sort of conservative figure they're pretty wrong.

[Overdrive]

This is a really good point, and a point that seems lost on a lot of people.

Virtually every piece of environmental legislation that has been introduced in the past few decades has nothing to do with actually protecting the environment... these pieces of legislation are almost always just schemes for oligarchs and their corporations to make money (the only thing they care about) while simultaneously fooling the public into thinking they give a single **** about the environment (or anything other than their own bank account).

Just look at the people who make the most noise about global warming - Al Gore, Bill Gates, Leo DiCaprio... etc. These people own their own jets or fly private, they vacation on private yachts, they own half a dozen mansions and countless expensive cars, and they employ an entire staff of people dedicated to maintaining their lifestyle (security, chefs, assistants/secretaries, accountants, etc). I have never heard of any billionaire who behaves like an environmentalist, and calling these phony celebrities and billionaires "environmentalists" is like calling Jeffrey Dahmer "pro life"... every single one of these ultra wealthy "environmentalists" has a carbon footprint equivalent to a small city, but pay no attention to that fact, its everyone else that needs to get their emissions under control.

I am no fan of Greta, and I think its incredibly ****ed up the way her family has turned their child into some kind of marketing tool (especially considering the list of mental ailments she is suffering)... but at least she has enough sense to fly commercial. Our dumb**** hypocrite billionaire environmentalists like Bill Gates could learn a thing or two from her.

She doesn't even fly to further your point and yes those climate change celebs are hypocrites of the highest order although I like Bill Gates' altruistic ways of some sort. DiCaprio is a bullshitter.

[Nanners]

She doesn't even fly to further your point and yes those climate change celebs are hypocrites of the highest order although I like Bill Gates' altruistic ways of some sort. DiCaprio is a bullshitter.

i thought the no fly thing was just for her US visit... but yeah if she never flies as a rule I just have that much more respect for her. undoubtedly one of the very few climate celebrities that even attempts to actually walk the walk

[RRR3]

She doesn't even fly to further your point and yes those climate change celebs are hypocrites of the highest order although I like Bill Gates' altruistic ways of some sort. DiCaprio is a bullshitter.
Bill Gates is a capitalist pig. If he really wanted to change the world he could have done it by now with all his money.

[Nanners]

Bill Gates is a capitalist pig. If he really wanted to change the world he could have done it by now with all his money.

How dare you... Dr Bill Gates is one of the greatest philanthropists this world has ever seen, hes donated like $36b to his own charity

[RRR3]

i thought the no fly thing was just for her US visit... but yeah if she never flies as a rule I just have that much more respect for her. undoubtedly one of the very few climate celebrities that even attempts to actually walk the walk
Celebrity worship is weird. Not saying I’m immune to it, but just because we like how some acts (DiCaprio) doesn’t mean they are a moral authority on anything. Are there celebrities who are legitimately amazing people and not just preach hypocritically sanctimonious twats? Of course but it’s probably fairly easy to expose the hypocrisy of the more vocal ones. Take Alyssa Milano for instance. She was a major force in the #MeToo movement but she is unabashedly stanning a politician credibly accused of rape (Biden). And she supported him in the PRIMARY, even :oldlol: She doesn’t care about any women besides herself and probably her close family members and friends. Certainly not Tara Reade or working class women. Rose McGowan was clowning her on Twitter for her hypocrisy and then she blocked McGowan :roll:

[RRR3]

How dare you... Dr Bill Gates is one of the greatest philanthropists this world has ever seen, hes donated like $36b to his own charity
It’s weird how the liberal media decides which billionaires are “good” and which billionaires are “bad”. I guess since Gates donates to liberal causes he’s “good” :lol Then again, Trump was a notable liberal donor for many years...

Reality: all billionaires are bad

[Nanners]

Celebrity worship is weird. Not saying I’m immune to it, but just because we like how some acts (DiCaprio) doesn’t mean they are a moral authority on anything. Are there celebrities who are legitimately amazing people and not just preach hypocritically sanctimonious twats? Of course but it’s probably fairly easy to expose the hypocrisy of the more vocal ones. Take Alyssa Milano for instance. She was a major force in the #MeToo movement but she is unabashedly stanning a politician credibly accused of rape (Biden). And she supported him in the PRIMARY, even :oldlol: She doesn’t care about any women besides herself and probably her close family members and friends. Certainly not Tara Reade or working class women. Rose McGowan was clowning her on Twitter for her hypocrisy and then she blocked McGowan :roll:

How dare you talk shit about Alyssa Milano! She is a hero and her bravery on twitter is a huge inspiration to democrats.

Also she is a covid survivor... and she is still suffering the after effects, so show some goddamn respect (much like fibromyalga and other imaginary diseases, covid side effects are dramatically worse for wealthy white women)

[Nanners]

It’s weird how the liberal media decides which billionaires are “good” and which billionaires are “bad”. I guess since Gates donates to liberal causes he’s “good” :lol Then again, Trump was a notable liberal donor for many years...

Other than Trump, I cant really think of a single billionaire that the mainstream media dislikes. The koch bros maybe, but they only get 1% of the amount of hate that Trump gets.


Reality: all billionaires are bad

Amen. Unless you are born into it, its virtually impossible to become a billionaire unless you're a complete sociopath.

[starface]

Jesus would have to forgive all those american bible thumpers. If they really believe the dude in the NT is some sort of conservative figure they're pretty wrong.


If you are in possession of the passage in the bible where Jesus takes a position on American politics, you should really get in touch with a rare artifact collector. That shit could be worth... arguably billions.

Not that you would ever cash in on that, obviously. Because teh capitalisms is bad.

;)

[Overdrive]

Bill Gates is a capitalist pig. If he really wanted to change the world he could have done it by now with all his money.

Atleast he donates alot that's why "of some sort". And no he can't change the world. His wealth isn't even close to enough, but his programs help abit. Other billionaires don't give AF at all.

I'm not opposed to capatalism as long as it's not unchecked. People should have money, but not so much that other people suffer while they have assets they cannot spend in 100 lifetimes.


If you are in possession of the passage in the bible where Jesus takes a position on American politics, you should really get in touch with a rare artifact collector. That shit could be worth... arguably billions.

Not that you would ever cash in on that, obviously. Because teh capitalisms is bad.

;)

Conservatism isn't exclusive to US politics. :lol

Also you thinking I'm opposed to earning money goes to show tht you never read my posts, didn't read my last few posts itt and have no clue what social democracy and social market economy are. The stuff I propagate

[bladefd]

LOL

The US is in trillion+ of debt

He is perfectly suited to continue that more so than others.

He personally owes hundreds of millions, which they will come collecting in 2022. Does he even have that sitting around without selling half his properties? He is not as wealthy as he says, pal.

[starface]

Conservatism isn't exclusive to US politics. :lol

Also you thinking I'm opposed to earning money goes to show tht you never read my posts, didn't read my last few posts itt and have no clue what social democracy and social market economy are. The stuff I propagate

Conservatism means different things in the context of different countries' politics. You specifically said American bible thumpers.

Jesus' message was be kind to one another and be charitable, yeah?

Did he specify doing it through government, or as individuals/charitable organizations?

I think he said something about rich men can't go to heaven. How many rich bible thumpers do you know? Did he follow up by saying "And even if you aren't rich, you should make sure nobody else is allowed to be rich either."

I mean I know the basics of the NT, but I haven't studied it thoroughly. So I'm legitimately asking.

To what extent does Jesus specify charity and kindness as governmental/political dictates?

[starface]

As far as the second thing, of course I understand what social democracy is.

"You're free to make money as a private business, but then if enough people vote to take it away from you, the government takes it from you."

It's a roundabout way of advocating a communist dictatorship, while saying "Seeeeee? We're not against private business!"

Just like the stick-up artist with a gun. Hey, he loves it when other people go out and make plenty of money. If you're strong arming someone... who wouldnt?

That's Democratic Socialism.

[Overdrive]

Conservatism means different things in the context of different countries' politics. You specifically said American bible thumpers.

Jesus' message was be kind to one another and be charitable, yeah?

Did he specify doing it through government, or as individuals/charitable organizations?

I think he said something about rich men can't go to heaven. How many rich bible thumpers do you know? Did he follow up by saying "And even if you aren't rich, you should make sure nobody else is allowed to be rich either."

I mean I know the basics of the NT, but I haven't studied it thoroughly. So I'm legitimately asking.

To what extent does Jesus specify charity and kindness as governmental/political dictates?

I said american bible thumpers, because they take religion as a source for their conservatism while Jesus was pretty progressive and social for his time and even now.

Maybe bible thumper was a hyperbole, but I'd believe most rich people are on the conservative spectrum of politics in the US.


As far as the second thing, of course I understand what social democracy is.

"You're free to make money as a private business, but then if enough people vote to take it away from you, the government takes it from you."

It's a roundabout way of advocating a communist dictatorship, while saying "Seeeeee? We're not against private business!"

Just like the stick-up artist with a gun. Hey, he loves it when other people go out and make plenty of money. If you're strong arming someone... who wouldnt?

That's Democratic Socialism.

Wtf no, it's absolutely not. There were no state drive disenfranchisings here in the last 60 or so years. The state can't just take your business. You're still in the McCarthy era. Afraid of a communist boogieman while you live under a monetary biparty faux democracy with no chance for change no matter who becomes president. Their policies have to appease to the same bunch of people no matter who wins.

[starface]

I said american bible thumpers, because they take religion as a source for their conservatism while Jesus was pretty progressive and social for his time and even now.

Maybe bible thumper was a hyperbole, but I'd believe most rich people are on the conservative spectrum of politics in the US.



Wtf no, it's absolutely not. There were no state drive disenfranchisings here in the last 60 or so years. The state can't just take your business. You're still in the McCarthy era. Afraid of a communist boogieman while you live under a monetary biparty faux democracy with no chance for change no matter who becomes president. Their policies have to appease to the same bunch of people no matter who wins.


I didnt say the state takes the business. I specifically said it doesnt. It leaves the business to the owner, while just taking the money :lol

You like to use the technicality that the state doesnt own the business, to distinguish it from the less popular label of communism. But if the state ultimately takes all or most of the earnings... who cares who’s on the deed? They have no incentive to invest their time and money into making it work.

Youre strawmanning because I described exactly what democratic socialism is and youre a bit embarrassed to have the smoke and mirrors dismantled so easily.

We already have a degree of DS in the United States, as does every developed western country. All this debate comes down to is the specific amount people should be taxed and whom it should he spent on. We’re not arguing fundamentally different systems. Just the specific amount of government control of revenue.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Trump Cult Members, remember the feds got Capone on tax evasion.

[ItsMillerTime]

The difference is Ralph and I want to abolish capitalism, Overdrive wants a mixed economy and the liberals just want a polite guy in the White House so they can pretend everything is ok.

You're high as shit if you identify me as one of these liberals. Biden could not be any more mainstream status quo from the retarded Democratic party, everything is definitely NOT okay. Biden is not the answer to everyone's prayers but if we don't get this criminal dipshit out of the White House, things are going to continue to get worse.

[starface]

Coming to Showtime:

Unhinged and Obsessed: The ItsMillerTime Story...

[Lakers Legend#32]

Trump pays $70,000 a year for a hair stylist.
What. A. B!tch.

[rawimpact]

He personally owes hundreds of millions, which they will come collecting in 2022. Does he even have that sitting around without selling half his properties? He is not as wealthy as he says, pal.

So? I dont care about his personal life, that's his problem. I don't know why you or the moron above me take it so personal.

I just care about how he can make my finances better. The policies he puts in place or removes... not the stupidity that comes out of his mouth.

keep taxes low, dont subsidize low-income insurance by killing the middle class

[~primetime~]

So? I dont care about his personal life, that's his problem.

I just care about how he can make my finances better.

you want Trump to make your finances better...but you don't care that he is incapable of keeping his own finances in order

[rawimpact]

you want Trump to make your finances better...but you don't care that he is incapable of keeping his own finances in order

My effective tax rate in trumps has been lower than Obamas

I want the trend to continue

Unlike you, I can differentiate personal decisions from government policies. and for the millionth time, there's only one part I care about and that's the one that effects me.

[starface]

you want Trump to make your finances better...but you don't care that he is incapable of keeping his own finances in order


Trump spends his time playing golf and grabbing women by the pvssy. He lives in a luxury high rise. He’s spent his entire life living this way and hes now 80 years old. He ran for United States President for fun... AND WON. Billionaires like Mike Bloomberg and Ross Perot tried the same thing and got nowhere.

Seems like he knows what hes doing. :confusedshrug:

[Overdrive]

I didnt say the state takes the business. I specifically said it doesnt. It leaves the business to the owner, while just taking the money :lol

You like to use the technicality that the state doesnt own the business, to distinguish it from the less popular label of communism. But if the state ultimately takes all or most of the earnings... who cares who’s on the deed? They have no incentive to invest their time and money into making it work.

Youre strawmanning because I described exactly what democratic socialism is and youre a bit embarrassed to have the smoke and mirrors dismantled so easily.

We already have a degree of DS in the United States, as does every developed western country. All this debate comes down to is the specific amount people should be taxed and whom it should he spent on. We’re not arguing fundamentally different systems. Just the specific amount of government control of revenue.

Okay I misinterpreted take it away from as taking the business not the money.

US corporate tax is up to 21%. 25% in Austria. The difference between the systems isn't the tax amount they take it's what's done with the money.

Also social democracy is not democratic socialism. Don't twist those two things

[BigKobeFan]

Trump pays $70,000 a year for a hair stylist.
What. A. B!tch.

At least he gave a hair stylist a $70k job. What have you done so far?

[Norcaliblunt]

We can argue the tax stuff all day but the bottom line is spending has increased. It’s okay if you don’t want to pay taxes, and don’t care if people like Trump don’t pay, but you can’t accept the spending and deficit going up then. That’s where you have to hold a mofo accountable.

[Cleverness]

We can argue the tax stuff all day but the bottom line is spending has increased. It’s okay if you don’t want to pay taxes, and don’t care if people like Trump don’t pay, but you can’t accept the spending and deficit going up then. That’s where you have to hold a mofo accountable.

end the income tax

[Norcaliblunt]

end the income tax

I would love to see that at least proposed and debated. Besides maybe some Libertarian has any politician in the last 100 years ever even suggested doing that?

[Cleverness]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DeliriousDisloyalHoatzin-max-1mb.gif

[Lakers Legend#32]

At least he gave a hair stylist a $70k job. What have you done so far?
You paid for that job.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Melania realizes now her prenup was just an IOU.

[RRR3]

As far as the second thing, of course I understand what social democracy is.

"You're free to make money as a private business, but then if enough people vote to take it away from you, the government takes it from you."

It's a roundabout way of advocating a communist dictatorship, while saying "Seeeeee? We're not against private business!"

Just like the stick-up artist with a gun. Hey, he loves it when other people go out and make plenty of money. If you're strong arming someone... who wouldnt?

That's Democratic Socialism.
Social democracy and democratic socialism aren’t the same thing you absolute doorknob :roll: It’s time to stop reading breitbart.

[rawimpact]

Just out of curiosity, RRR3 who are you voting for?

[RRR3]

Just out of curiosity, RRR3 who are you voting for?
Howie Hawkins (Green Party). I could vote for a communist but there is no chance of getting them to 5%.

[rawimpact]

Howie Hawkins (Green Party). I could vote for a communist but there is no chance of getting them to 5%.

I'll have to look into his policies, but I do know he wanted to give all adults 2K/month lol

I guess the US debt doesnt matter

[RRR3]

I'll have to look into his policies, but I do know he wanted to give all adults 2K/month lol

I guess the US debt doesnt matter
Pretty sure he’d heavily cut funding for military and police.

[rawimpact]

Pretty sure he’d heavily cut funding for military and police.

Yeah 75% I read LOL

what a joke. With all the enemies the US has, what would happen if we just cut 75% of our defense budget? LOL

[RRR3]

Yeah 75% I read LOL

what a joke. With all the enemies the US has, what would happen if we just cut 75% of our defense budget? LOL
1. Why do you think the US has so many enemies? It couldn’t possibly be due to being the largest imperial power on earth, could it?
2. Iirc we spend TRILLIONS on the military. Cutting it by 75% is a good thing. Our tax money should support things like universal healthcare, not bombing brown kids.

[starface]

Social democracy and democratic socialism aren’t the same thing you absolute doorknob :roll: It’s time to stop reading breitbart.


:biggums:

Reversing the order of the words makes it different things?


Yeah, people outside dorky hipster political circles dont get bogged down in such pretentious things. Whereas you who is jumping on a new bandwagon every week based on whatever the most recent left-leaning person youve heard speak says, is all about trying to keep up and fit in with such silly distinctions.

Carry on. Itll get you nowhere in life, but frankly you have nowhere to go anyway. So this is where you belong.

[RRR3]

:biggums:

Reversing the order of the words makes it different things?


Yeah, people outside dorky hipster political circles dont get bogged down in such pretentious things. Whereas you who is jumping on a new bandwagon every week based on whatever the most recent left-leaning person youve heard speak says, is all about trying to keep up and fit in with such silly distinctions.

Carry on. Itll get you nowhere in life, but frankly you have nowhere to go anyway. So this is where you belong.
:facepalm


Social democracy is when you advocate for a mixed economy. Mixed being a combination of capitalism and socialism. An example of a social democrat would be Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. They call themselves Democratic socialists, but their policies say otherwise.

Democratic socialism is when you advocate for the means of the production to be socially owned and for wealth to be redistributed but retain respect for private property and are not seeking the eventual abolition of money and state (like in communism) and believe in democratic elections. An example of a democratic socialist would be Eugene Debs or Salvador Allende.

[Overdrive]

:biggums:

Reversing the order of the words makes it different things?


Yeah, people outside dorky hipster political circles dont get bogged down in such pretentious things. Whereas you who is jumping on a new bandwagon every week based on whatever the most recent left-leaning person youve heard speak says, is all about trying to keep up and fit in with such silly distinctions.

Carry on. Itll get you nowhere in life, but frankly you have nowhere to go anyway. So this is where you belong.

Oh man...you should acquire some knowledge about things you talk about.

To make it simple for you without any nuance.
Social democracy means welfare state. Democratic socialism means communism with elections.

[starface]

:facepalm


Social democracy is when you advocate for a mixed economy. Mixed being a combination of capitalism and socialism. An example of a social democrat would be Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. They call themselves Democratic socialists, but there policies say otherwise.

Democratic socialism is when you advocate for the means of the production to be socially owned and for wealth to be redistributed but retain respect for private property and are not seeking the eventual abolition of money and state (like in communism) and believe in democratic elections. An example of a democratic socialist would be Eugene Debs or perhaps Salvador Allende.


Let me guess, you learned all of this last week, and for the next three months we’ll hear you be like “Omg, u dont know the diffference between social democrats and democrats socialiststs!!!?? Hahaha where have you BEEN??”

Just like a few months ago when you learned some distinction between liberal and leftists you had to make a point of telling people you knew about it in EVERY topic.

And before that it was “Yo BERNIE ALL DAYYYYY!!!! He liek knows everything and hes the only one who cares!!!!”


Youre a child with no life experience just jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon. Looking for some place to fit. Thats fine and you do you. But understand how cringe it is when you lecture people like youre an authority, with things you just learned yesterday... and they arent even real things anyway.

[starface]

Oh man...you should acquire some knowledge about things you talk about.

To make it simple for you without any nuance.
Social democracy means welfare state. Democratic socialism means communism with elections.


Bro, non dweebs dont care about the trendy, esoteric terminology for your latest fantasies.

What matters is the ideas behind them. And yours are deficient. No matter what you call them.

[Overdrive]

I'll have to look into his policies, but I do know he wanted to give all adults 2K/month lol

I guess the US debt doesnt matter

When industry 4.0 reaches full throttle you need ubi or reduction of people and birth control anyway. Ignoring it won't make it go away.

[Overdrive]

Bro, non dweebs dont care about the trendy, esoteric terminology for your latest fantasies.

What matters is the ideas behind them. And yours are deficient. No matter what you call them.

I live in a social democracy. Communism is nowhere to be found here. Clueless as usual.

[starface]

I live in a social democracy. Communism is nowhere to be found here. Clueless as usual.


Yes, when arguments run out of steam, start arguing the semantics between “social democracy” and “democracy socialism.”

Might as well start correcting typos and saying aha!

(Also known as TheMan’s Special.)

[RRR3]

Let me guess, you learned all of this last week, and for the next three months we’ll hear you be like “Omg, u dont know the diffference between social democrats and democrats socialiststs!!!?? Hahaha where have you BEEN??”

Just like a few months ago when you learned some distinction between liberal and leftists you had to make a point of telling people you knew about it in EVERY topic.

And before that it was “Yo BERNIE ALL DAYYYYY!!!! He liek knows everything and hes the only one who cares!!!!”


Youre a child with no life experience just jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon. Looking for some place to fit. Thats fine and you do you. But understand how cringe it is when you lecture people like youre an authority, with things you just learned yesterday... and they arent even real things anyway.
I’m really not sure how me explaining the difference between two ideologies warranted a meltdown filled with personal attacks.

It’s really weird that you can’t understand why people’s views would change as they learn more information. I assumed the Democratic Party was serving the interests of the people in the past. I learned more, I changed my opinion. I thought Bernie was great at one point. I learned my beliefs don’t align with his and that he doesn’t go nearly far enough in my opinion, so I changed my opinion there as well. I’d still vote for Bernie don’t get me wrong but he’s far from my ideal candidate and there are problems with him.

[starface]

I’m really not sure how me explaining the difference between two ideologies warranted a meltdown filled with personal attacks.

It’s really weird that you can’t understand why people’s views would change as they learn more information. I assumed the Democratic Party was serving the interests of the people in the past. I learned more, I changed my opinion. I thought Bernie was great at one point. I learned my beliefs don’t align with his and that he doesn’t go nearly far enough in my opinion, so I changed my opinion there as well. I’d still vote for Bernie don’t get me wrong but he’s far from my ideal candidate and there are problems with him.


You call me a ‘doorknob’ (wtf) and then cry about me personally attacking you in response.

:yaohappy:


Thats you in a nutshell.

“The rules apply to others but not to myself bc that ways its easier for me!!!!“

[BigKobeFan]

You call me a ‘doorknob’ (wtf) and then cry about me personally attacking you in response.

:yaohappy:


Thats you in a nutshell.

“The rules apply to others but not to myself bc that ways its easier for me!!!!“

Why do you even argue with a goddamn communist. They are unemployed, hypocrites, and lazy as ****

[RRR3]

You call me a ‘doorknob’ (wtf) and then cry about me personally attacking you in response.

:yaohappy:


Thats you in a nutshell.

“The rules apply to others but not to myself bc that ways its easier for me!!!!“
Fair enough I’ll take the L on that. Hope you’ll remember the difference between the ideologues in the future though.

[Overdrive]

Yes, when arguments run out of steam, start arguing the semantics between “social democracy” and “democracy socialism.”

Might as well start correcting typos and saying aha!

(Also known as TheMan’s Special.)

Either you're trolling or you absolutely have no clue about politics outside of Ted Nugent song lyrics.

I am arguing semantics, because semantics is the meaning of words and "social democracy" has a different meaning from "democratic socialism".

[starface]

Either you're trolling or you absolutely have no clue about politics outside of Ted Nugent song lyrics.

I am arguing semantics, because semantics is the meaning of words and "social democracy" has a different meaning from "democratic socialism".


To whom? People in your drum circle?

Anyone can make up any random bullshit on a whim. You “insisting” on it doesnt validate it.

The bottom line is you want a tribal council to vote on how each person’s income is spent, on some CBS Survivor shit. Which is pathetic. But you arent disputing it, because that IS your position. You just dont like having it boiled down to its essence and exposed.

Instead youre shifting the focus to “what it’s called” to make it look like Im the one getting something wrong.

It’s called a Strawman.

Hello!

[Overdrive]

To whom? People in your drum circle?

Anyone can make up any random bullshit on a whim. You “insisting” on it doesnt validate it.

The bottom line is you want a tribal council to vote on how each person’s income is spent, on some CBS Survivor shit. Which is pathetic. But you arent disputing it, because that IS your position. You just dont like having it boiled down to its essence and exposed.

Instead youre shifting the focus to “what it’s called” to make it look like Im the one getting something wrong.

It’s called a Strawman.

Hello!

Umm no. For xth time. I live in a social democratic country. We have a constitution, a chancelor, a parlament, seperation of powers, federalism...

My hometown is deep social democratic. Same shit smaller scale. We vote for a parlament every 5 years. No OSCE needed. Free elections. Party pluralism. Anyone can found a party and actually have success with it.

Extreme forms of our system are the scandinavic countries. None of these countries are communistic. I don't even think you know what communism means.

[dn41]

@starface
This is not meant as an attack but did you ever travel outside the US?

[starface]

Umm no. For xth time. I live in a social democratic country. We have a constitution, a chancelor, a parlament, seperation of powers, federalism...

My hometown is deep social democratic. Same shit smaller scale. We vote for a parlament every 5 years. No OSCE needed. Free elections. Party pluralism. Anyone can found a party and actually have success with it.

Extreme forms of our system are the scandinavic countries. None of these countries are communistic. I don't even think you know what communism means.


com•mu•nism kŏm′yə-nĭz″əm►
n. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.
n. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.


Your only point of difference is whether it’s one person deciding on a whim how much each person “deserves to owe” or whether it’s the whim of a million people. No rhyme or reason. If 51/100 people think the guy whose startup made a million last year should pay 60%... he pays 60%. If they decide he should pay 80%... he pays 80%.

If the media can convince 51% of taxpayers to float the bill on a new football stadium, then everyone floats the bill. Social democratic socialist democracy!

Before America, there were few if any free market economies. Poor people from everyone came HERE for freedom, and basically invented the shit out of the modern world. To the tremendous benefit of ‘Scandi’ countries, who no longer needed to operate as monarchies, because US military power could protect them. And who could for the first time grow their economies without conquering outward, or expanding inward with immigrants, bc the US provided the backbone, and other countries could focus on niche, boutique economic roles.

American capitalism is the reason we all have what we have. It is the reason anyone has the right to move up in class in the free world. YOUR country used to have rigid class structures and princes and nobilities and laws about who could marry whom. Capitalistic freedom pioneered by America is what made that a thing of the past.

Youre a pretentious, ignorant shit sitting in a coffee shop wearing skinny jeans and crying about America. If it wasnt for America, some big bearded Viking would be bludgeoning your head clean off right now and laughing. Men as beta as you only even SURVIVE into your thirties because of the culture America has gifted the world.

Ungrateful fakkit!

[Overdrive]

com•mu•nism kŏm′yə-nĭz″əm►
n. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.
n. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

Glad you finally looked it up. No collective ownership of property in my country unless it's a private consortium. I adressed the party system in my last post already. Non of the parties control the economy. No planned production.



Your only point of difference is whether it’s one person deciding on a whim how much each person “deserves to owe” or whether it’s the whim of a million people. No rhyme or reason. If 51/100 people think the guy whose startup made a million last year should pay 60%... he pays 60%. If they decide he should pay 80%... he pays 80%.

Aside from that not being the only difference. That's a huge difference in itself and what prohibits that from happening in the US if the chambers decide to raise the corporate tax to 80%?
As stated before. US corporate tax 21%, 25% here. The way taxes are spent is the big difference in ideologies. Nothing else. No dictatorship. No planned production/economy. No equal sharing of goods. No public communes owning property aside from public transportation and the likes and that's not a bad thing looking at GB after the privatised their federal railway.



If the media can convince 51% of taxpayers to float the bill on a new football stadium, then everyone floats the bill. Social democratic socialist democracy!


Umm no. That's not how a representive democracy works. Neither in the US nor in Europe. Switzerland has a direct democracy if you want to look into the differences.



Before America, there were few if any free market economies. Poor people from everyone came HERE for freedom, and basically invented the shit out of the modern world. To the tremendous benefit of ‘Scandi’ countries, who no longer needed to operate as monarchies, because US military power could protect them. And who could for the first time grow their economies without conquering outward, or expanding inward with immigrants, bc the US provided the backbone, and other countries could focus on niche, boutique economic roles.

Sweden for example became a democracy in 1909. Germany, Austria after the first world war. The US only became really influental after the second.


American capitalism is the reason we all have what we have. It is the reason anyone has the right to move up in class in the free world. YOUR country used to have rigid class structures and princes and nobilities and laws about who could marry whom. Capitalistic freedom pioneered by America is what made that a thing of the past.

Gavrilo Princip is the reason we got rid of nobilities. The marshall plan came 30 years later. It was highly influental, but by the time of the 70s oil crisis it didn't affect our economy anymore.



Youre a pretentious, ignorant shit sitting in a coffee shop wearing skinny jeans and crying about America. If it wasnt for America, some big bearded Viking would be bludgeoning your head clean off right now and laughing. Men as beta as you only even SURVIVE into your thirties because of the culture America has gifted the world.

Ungrateful fakkit!


You're projecting here. I'm working class. You're the pretentious wannabe failed author/actor using fancy words while having no clue about history and politics outside the US. I've never been to a coffeeshop outside of Amsterdam and they serve a different purpose there. Again you mistake me for some american liberal while I'm not. I'm also no communist. No fascist. No radical anything. I believe radicalism makes people blind to construtive points by the other side.

You on the otherhand are pretty much ignorant to anything that's non US conservatism.

No, I didn't survive into my thirties because of the US. People in eastern Europe live into their 80s and the US didn't do shit for them. Slovakia and Czech republic are doing well. Former warsaw pact countries. Former yugoslavian countries were on the rise before the recent crisis.

[starface]

And for those who dont understand the implications of the point I made to that fool:

People came to America because of the freedom to make something out of nothing. They had that drive in them to succeed, to achieve, to move up. As some people inevitably do and always will. America was the only place that allowed people to do it legally at that time. American free markets abolished legally enforced class structure. Capitalism. A system of merit.

There is no society where people will not develop an informal, social class structure. There is no society where people dont seek to take advantage of whatever opportunities and talents they have. It is not in our genetic makeup to give away advantages. By trying to create some legal enforcement of an "equal class" you will only serve to elevate the people talking about it into the top class. Which, naturally, is why anyone would talk about it. They feel it's their only ticket to to the top. Not the merit other people provide. Selling a fake fairy tale that only they truly understand and can implement.

It's a coping mechanism for the inadequate.

Period.

Sorry boyz.

[Overdrive]

And for those who dont understand the implications of the point I made to that fool:

People came to America because of the freedom to make something out of nothing. They had that drive in them to succeed, to achieve, to move up. As some people inevitably do and always will. But America was the only place that allowed anyone to do it legally. American free markets abolished legally enforced class structure. Capitalism. A system of merit.

There is no society where people will not develop an informal, social class structure. There is no society where people dont seek to take advantage of whatever opportunities and talents they have. It is not in our genetic makeup to give away advantages. By trying to create some legal enforcement of "abolishing class" you will only serve to elevate the people talking about it into the top class. Which, naturally, is why anyone would talk about it. They feel it's their only ticket to to the top. Not the merit other people provide. Selling a fake fairy tale that only they truly understand and can implement.

It's a coping mechanism for the inadequate.

Period.

Sorry boyz.

There are enough rich people in Europe. In my country - social democracy at that - you can have a rags to riches story just like in the US. And people became rich before the US ha any influence in middle, nothern and western europe. Not only nobles.

People fled to the US for various reasons. Permanent war in Europe before 1945 was a big one. Religion another.

Calling me fool while you have zero education on anything non US is a joke.

[starface]

Aside from that not being the only difference. That's a huge difference in itself and what prohibits that from happening in the US if the chambers decide to raise the corporate tax to 80%?
As stated before. US corporate tax 21%, 25% here. The way taxes are spent is the big difference in ideologies. Nothing else. No dictatorship. No planned production/economy. No equal sharing of goods. No public communes owning property aside from public transportation and the likes and that's not a bad thing looking at GB after the privatised their federal railway.

Nothing, which is the problem many of us have with it :hammerhead:




Umm no. That's not how a representive democracy works. Neither in the US nor in Europe. Switzerland has a direct democracy if you want to look into the differences.

Sweden for example became a democracy in 1909. Germany, Austria after the first world war. The US only became really influental after the second.

Gavrilo Princip is the reason we got rid of nobilities. The marshall plan came 30 years later. It was highly influental, but by the time of the 70s oil crisis it didn't affect our economy anymore.




You're projecting here. I'm working class. You're the pretentious wannabe failed author/actor using fancy words while having no clue about history and politics outside the US. I've never been to a coffeeshop outside of Amsterdam and they serve a different purpose there. Again you mistake me for some american liberal while I'm not. I'm also no communist. No fascist. No radical anything. I believe radicalism makes people blind to construtive points by the other side.

You on the otherhand are pretty much ignorant to anything that's non US conservatism.

No, I didn't survive into my thirties because of the US. People in eastern Europe live into their 80s and the US didn't do shit for them. Slovakia and Czech republic are doing well. Former warsaw pact countries. Former yugoslavian countries were on the rise before the recent crisis.


So I guess the distinction here is, I'm ignorant of your country's politics but I dont sit around whining about them.

Youre ignorant of my country's politics and you sit around whining about them.

[RRR3]

com•mu•nism kŏm′yə-nĭz″əm►
n. A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.
n. A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.


Your only point of difference is whether it’s one person deciding on a whim how much each person “deserves to owe” or whether it’s the whim of a million people. No rhyme or reason. If 51/100 people think the guy whose startup made a million last year should pay 60%... he pays 60%. If they decide he should pay 80%... he pays 80%.

If the media can convince 51% of taxpayers to float the bill on a new football stadium, then everyone floats the bill. Social democratic socialist democracy!

Before America, there were few if any free market economies. Poor people from everyone came HERE for freedom, and basically invented the shit out of the modern world. To the tremendous benefit of ‘Scandi’ countries, who no longer needed to operate as monarchies, because US military power could protect them. And who could for the first time grow their economies without conquering outward, or expanding inward with immigrants, bc the US provided the backbone, and other countries could focus on niche, boutique economic roles.

American capitalism is the reason we all have what we have. It is the reason anyone has the right to move up in class in the free world. YOUR country used to have rigid class structures and princes and nobilities and laws about who could marry whom. Capitalistic freedom pioneered by America is what made that a thing of the past.

Youre a pretentious, ignorant shit sitting in a coffee shop wearing skinny jeans and crying about America. If it wasnt for America, some big bearded Viking would be bludgeoning your head clean off right now and laughing. Men as beta as you only even SURVIVE into your thirties because of the culture America has gifted the world.

Ungrateful fakkit!
:roll: :roll: :yaohappy:

[Overdrive]

Nothing, which is the problem many of us have with it :hammerhead:

Someone has to pay for your miltary complex.




So I guess the distinction here is, I'm ignorant of your country's politics but I dont sit around whining about them.

Youre ignorant of my country's politics and you sit around whining about them.

2nd time: Your country is the #1 headline in most european newsoutlets when it comes to foreign politics. Hard to be ignorant about it, when you receive news about it 24/7.
Also there's enough information on the internet. Discussion here. I told you few pages ago I don't deny that Trump also does good.

You on the other hand ignore it when someone tries to educate on something you obviously don't know. Reaching for arguments that simply aren't true.

[starface]

Someone has to pay for your miltary complex.


2nd time: Your country is the #1 headline in most european newsoutlets when it comes to foreign politics. Hard to be ignorant about it, when you receive news about it 24/7.
Also there's enough information on the internet. Discussion here. I told you few pages ago I don't deny that Trump also does good.

You on the other hand ignore it when someone tries to educate on something you obviously don't know. Reaching for arguments that simply aren't true.

Just because youre spoon fed a media narrative about what happens here, doesnt mean youre educated.

More importantly, why do you care? You sit there and pompously throw effeminate tantrums about US society. But you dont live here. Why?

Can you explain to me why you MUST vomit pretentious opinions about America that reek of a desperation to feel superior??

CAN.

YOU.

SAY.

WHY.

[Lakers Legend#32]

The Emperor Has No Dough.

[Overdrive]

Just because youre spoon fed a media narrative about what happens here, doesnt mean youre educated.

More importantly, why do you care? You sit there and pompously throw effeminate tantrums about US society. But you dont live here. Why?

Can you explain to me why you MUST vomit pretentious opinions about America that reek of a desperation to feel superior??

CAN.

YOU.

SAY.

WHY.

What tantrums exactly do I throw? You're the guy crying in about every post you make. Discussion is fun. I don't feel superior to anyone or any country. You just feel attacked by any opposing opinions or facts because you're insecure AF.

[starface]

What tantrums exactly do I throw? You're the guy crying in about every post you make. Discussion is fun. I don't feel superior to anyone or any country. You just feel attacked by any opposing opinions or facts because you're insecure AF.


You're constantly spouting cringey socioeconomic opinions about a country in which youve apparently never lived... to people WHO ACTUALLY LIVE THERE. You're soapboxing pretentious "workers of the world unite" cliches, evidently out of boredom.

If by 'attacked' you mean we feel vexed by your willingness to pour more ignorance onto already precarious debates... then yes. That is how we feel.

Your input makes discussions worse.

Is basically the crux of it.

[tpols]

Imagine living a life of exorbitant luxury, prestige, and success... and all along you were really in the negative.

That's BOSS. Only the Don could pull that off for ~80 years.

[rawimpact]

If I went by news headlines only and I lived outside of the US i'd be a flaming liberal too Overdrive.

Except I see my paycheck get deducted, I see my health insurance deductibles skyrocket, I see hard working Americans get undercut by illegals. It's a difficult thing to swallow paying a licensed American for concrete driveway work charging 3/sqft labor when a illegal immigrant can do it for half that. I'm fortunate enough to be able to be able to pay the difference but im sure there will be times I cant and others cant either.

Anyways, I'd go on but I'm leaving for home.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Don't understand why Don Jr and Eric are on Twitter defending Trump today.
There's no inheritance, boyz.

[~primetime~]

Imagine living a life of exorbitant luxury, prestige, and success... and all along you were really in the negative.

That's BOSS. Only the Don could pull that off for ~80 years.

:oldlol:

you know what's even more 'boss'?...living that life and being in the positive

[BigKobeFan]

What a great man. He's completely negative in his net worth, works for free and donates all of his paychecks to non profit organizations.

There cannot be a better individual than that man.

[RRR3]

If I went by news headlines only and I lived outside of the US i'd be a flaming liberal too Overdrive.

Except I see my paycheck get deducted, I see my health insurance deductibles skyrocket, I see hard working Americans get undercut by illegals. It's a difficult thing to swallow paying a licensed American for concrete driveway work charging 3/sqft labor when a illegal immigrant can do it for half that. I'm fortunate enough to be able to be able to pay the difference but im sure there will be times I cant and others cant either.

Anyways, I'd go on but I'm leaving for home.
He’s not a liberal, he’s a social democrat. And I doubt he’s for open borders. I’m somewhere beteeen a Democratic socialist and an anarchocommunist and I realize open borders is unfeasible in America as it stands.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Melania: "Donald Broke? Then Vhy I Make F#ck?"

[BurningHammer]

Well, he can escape IRS and all foreign debts he has to pay up in next few years now. :ohwell:

[Draz]

Unemployed people can't care, they don't file shit

[baudkarma]

Trump not paying taxes for most of the past 15 years is not a surprise. Smart people (and companies) can find a myriad of ways to avoid paying taxes. Check out how much Amazon has paid in taxes over the past few years.

Trump not being as smart or as savvy a businessman as he claims to be is not a surprise. Trump is hardly a private person, if he refused to release his tax returns then any reasonable person could surmise that there were details in those returns that he didn't want to be made public.

What is surprising and somewhat worrisome is the articles claim that Trump is nowhere near as wealthy as he claims to be, and that he may, in fact, be rather deep in debt. People in debt can have their ethics compromised. When the Government does background checks for security clearances and the like, it's considered a major red flag if the subject is deep in debt. I really don't like the idea of the Leader of the Free World thinking that he's got to find a way to make a couple hundred million dollars... fast.

[Nanners]

Its hilarious and absurd that people are attacking Trump because he benefitted from a broken tax system that subsidizes the ultra wealthy... rather than attacking the democrat and republican establishment politicians that have spent decades creating this tax system that allows an ultra wealthy guy like Trump to pay so little.