Who won the debate?

[jstern]

Between Joe Biden and Donald Trump?

[Cleverness]

90 minutes of "debate"

No one said anything of substance

Format needs to change

Biden "won" in my book because he didn't have any big dementia moments

[BigKobeFan]

90 minutes of "debate"

No one said anything of substance

Format needs to change

Biden "won" in my book because he didn't have any big dementia moments

Wow your bar is ****ing low.

[Cleverness]

Sorry, not necessarily my personal bar, just what I think the bar is set at by the general public

The way I see it is there's little enthusiasm for Joe Biden. His whole campaign is Not Trump 2020, so the bar is set low for him

[starface]

Depends what the criteria is.

Biden confirmed hes a weak, fake, establishment plant, memorizing hollow rhetoric he doesnt really stand for. But we already knew that. It doesnt change anything.

Trump made a lot of good points, especially in the first 10-15 mins, but he also appeared unnecessarily defensive and petty as things went on. Which is simply part and parcel with the Trump experience.

The problem I see is that the good points he made were probably over the heads of a lot of typical people anyway. His “demeanor” is more likely to resonate with the average person.

Basically, he had more substance (not a lot, but more than Sleepy) and he got the important things right... but that isnt what the generic masses understand or care about.

[TheMan]

Who knows...who cares.

We all lose.

[SouBeachTalents]

Nobody, that was an absolute trainwreck

[Micku]

The camera ppl. The whole thing was a shit show. I normally don't like presidential debates anyway. They were better in the 60s-80s. The whole format needs to change. You'll find better structure debates with colleges with two Ph.D professors going at each other. I don't know why something as serious as presidential debates don't just borrow from the college structure debates.

They just interrupted each other, a bunch of insults, sometimes saying stuff that ain't true, misleading facts, and the moderator couldn't get in control of anything. They should cut off the mic. Both of them made false claims about each other and about themselves, both made some good points, but it's all surrounded by the 90 mins of trash.

If you were to give me a ballot and tell me decide who to vote for based upon this debate. I would toss that ballot in the trash and burn it, because that's what exactly what I saw. A dumpster fire.

This was not only the worst presidential debate I seen, but one of the worst debates I seen period with two ppl who are suppose to be respected. Or at least going to a position that is suppose to be respected. You'll find better debates between two philosophers talking whatever cats have free will or about god than you would with this shit.

The American ppl lost. That's what happened.

[starface]

The camera ppl. The whole thing was a shit show. I normally don't like presidential debates anyway. They were better in the 60s-80s. The whole format needs to change. You'll find better structure debates with colleges with two Ph.D professors going at each other. I don't know why something as serious as presidential debates don't just borrow from the college structure debates.

They just interrupted each other, a bunch of insults, sometimes saying stuff that ain't true, misleading facts, and the moderator couldn't get in control of anything. They should cut off the mic. Both of them made false claims about each other and about themselves, both made some good points, but it's all surrounded by the 90 mins of trash.

If you were to give me a ballot and tell me decide who to vote for based upon this debate. I would toss that ballot in the trash and burn it, because that's what exactly what I saw. A dumpster fire.

This was not only the worst presidential debate I seen, but one of the worst debates I seen period with two ppl who are suppose to be respected. Or at least going to a position that is suppose to be respected. You'll find better debates between two philosophers talking whatever cats have free will or about god than you would with this shit.

The American ppl lost. That's what happened.


This is something most people can agree on, which is why youll never see the media push the issue. The media only pushes polarizing issues.

We need to collectively demand better, but the focus continuously stays on issues that divide us.

[Axe]

Chris wallace

[jstern]

Two to six for Trump. And one of the Biden vote is a sort of protest vote. So it's really seven to one for Trump.

[TheMan]

Two to six for Trump. And one of the Biden vote is a sort of protest vote. So it's really seven to one for Trump.
That's it, it's official, Trump won the debate...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/Ho_sRDr8AUwpCUbquxRiOZflhm5_Hj4PFk6sXx-ymYLWtXNy8M0SlCtWLjNewbs4XI122JgJ=w320-h240

[iamgine]

Both are great men worthy of respect and emulation, whose ideas and labor had led to major advancement in all our lives.

[Walk on Water]

Trump lost to a guy that supposedly is slow and senile.

[dude77]

trump won .. he dominated and bullied lyin sleepy joe and the moderator .. as fkn usual, the moderator was team biden .. ridiculous .. I'm amazed trump deals with this shit constantly .. 'wait a min joe let me shut you down for one second' lol .. biden looked fragile .. he looked and sounded like a 'little old man' .. nobody wants a president who's weak and allows himself to be bullied and talked over .. his only flaw in my opinion was too much interrupting .. he needed to rein that in a bit .. if he had, there would've been no doubt he won

[Lebowski]

Vladimir Vladimirovitj Putin. So he got one vote.

[KennyPowers]

CNN poll after first debate
60% Biden
28% Trump

CNN poll after first debate in 2016
62% Clinton
27% Trump


Lol... It's happening all over again. The left believes Trump has no chance. Black lives matter, antifa, feminists are once again running wild in the streets and posting garbage online in their vacuum as they block everyone. It's like groundhogs day... and it's just as funny.

[Walk on Water]

CNN poll after first debate
60% Biden
28% Trump

CNN poll after first debate in 2016
62% Clinton
27% Trump


Lol... It's happening all over again. The left believes Trump has no chance. Black lives matter, antifa, feminists are once again running wild in the streets and posting garbage online in their vacuum as they block everyone. It's like groundhogs day... and it's just as funny.


Trump has a chance but I'm not counting on it.

[CelticBaller]

Lol trump obviously lost.

You don’t tell white supremacist to stand by and expect everyone to be on you side. The whole point of a debate is to win people over, that comment is going to be ran to the ground by the media and will cost trump votes

On the other hand Joe really didn’t put his foot on his mouth.

[Walk on Water]

Lol trump obviously lost.

You don’t tell white supremacist to stand by and expect everyone to be on you side. The whole point of a debate is to win people over, that comment is going to be ran to the ground by the media and will cost trump votes

On the other hand Joe really didn’t put his foot on his mouth.


This. ISH isn't embarrassed that Trump actually lost to someone they called a senile old man? They are working so hard just to save face. Just give it up.

[BigKobeFan]

Lol trump obviously lost.

You don’t tell white supremacist to stand by and expect everyone to be on you side. The whole point of a debate is to win people over, that comment is going to be ran to the ground by the media and will cost trump votes

On the other hand Joe really didn’t put his foot on his mouth.

How are proud boys white supremacists? You are confused. They accept all race and color who are willing to beat up antifa

[Walk on Water]

How are proud boys white supremacists? You are confused. They accept all race and color who are willing to beat up antifa


It was a brutal night for Trump.

[CelticBaller]

How are proud boys white supremacists? You are confused. They accept all race and color who are willing to beat up antifa

No I am not. Proud Boys are an alt right group and have been painted as white supremacist in the media.

The media will eat Trump up just like Hilary was getting eaten up with all the "crooked Hilary" stuff

[Shogon]

The camera ppl. The whole thing was a shit show. I normally don't like presidential debates anyway. They were better in the 60s-80s. The whole format needs to change. You'll find better structure debates with colleges with two Ph.D professors going at each other. I don't know why something as serious as presidential debates don't just borrow from the college structure debates.

They just interrupted each other, a bunch of insults, sometimes saying stuff that ain't true, misleading facts, and the moderator couldn't get in control of anything. They should cut off the mic. Both of them made false claims about each other and about themselves, both made some good points, but it's all surrounded by the 90 mins of trash.

If you were to give me a ballot and tell me decide who to vote for based upon this debate. I would toss that ballot in the trash and burn it, because that's what exactly what I saw. A dumpster fire.

This was not only the worst presidential debate I seen, but one of the worst debates I seen period with two ppl who are suppose to be respected. Or at least going to a position that is suppose to be respected. You'll find better debates between two philosophers talking whatever cats have free will or about god than you would with this shit.

The American ppl lost. That's what happened.

"Cats"?

Haha, people don't even have free will. Nothing has free will.

"Cats", though... haha.

[Shogon]

Anyways, we all lost.

They're both terrible candidates.

If anything, Joe Biden lost the least because he didn't have any overwhelming gaffes, although saying that 100 million Americans have preexisting conditions is pretty bad, lol. He did say some stupid shit but nothing that will be replayed on YouTube clips years later.

Trump came off as childish and egotistical as ever. I'm sure it was a deliberate strategy to cut Joe off to an extent, but it's still just... immature, to say the least.

We all lost... except for people like TheMan, who is obsessed with the politics of another country for some reason. What a cousin *********ing loser.

[JohnnySic]

Proud Boys are patriots. BLM and Antifa are scum. The reason why Proud Boys have been out and about is to defend good people from Antifa/BLM antics. Yes the media portrays the Proud Boys as white supremacists but the media is almost 100% left leaning and plenty of people are intelligent enough to see through the BS.

And why were they even talking about white supremacists anyway? Like Trump noted, all the trouble is coming from the left. White Supremacists aren't the ones burning cities. They even tried to paint the Kenosha incident as a white supremacist killing peaceful protesters. LOL. Zero credibility.

[JohnnySic]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjKYdXfX0AM36vH?format=jpg&name=medium

[~primetime~]

Yeah "white supremacy " was the #1 trend on Twitter last night...seems like if there was one take away moment, it was that one. I personally don't think it was a big deal but Trump did pause, he should have without hesitation immediately said "I condemn white supremacists". If the media is out to make him a KKK leader he needs to prove them wrong and that moment didn't really help him.

[JohnnySic]

One final thing: the fact that Wallace asked Trump to condemn "white supremacists" but did not ask Biden to condemn BLM and Antifa tells you all you need to know about where he stands. He dug pretty deep to drum up the "rioting" in Tulsa and Ft Worth but conveniently overlooked Portland, Seattle, Chicago, NY, Minneapolis, etc.

[tpols]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjKYdXfX0AM36vH?format=jpg&name=medium

It really was ridiculous how the moderator kept leading trump to apologize, blatantly siding with Biden putting all the Heat on trump with every question.

2v1 situation.

Trump's going to need some "hillary" moments where he throws out some memorable, charismatic quips. He looked jaded and tired here.

[~primetime~]

One final thing: the fact that Wallace asked Trump to condemn "white supremacists" but did not ask Biden to condemn BLM and Antifa tells you all you need to know about where he stands. He dug pretty deep to drum up the "rioting" in Tulsa and Ft Worth but conveniently overlooked Portland, Seattle, Chicago, NY, Minneapolis, etc.

Biden was asked to codemn violent riots by them...to which he did

[~primetime~]

I agree with everyone saying "we all lost"

That was an embarrassing shit show

We are inching closer to Idiocracy...gladiator fights between the candidates are in our future.


If I have to pick a winner I'll go Biden because going into the debate the theme was "how many old man brain farts will Biden have"... he spoke fine for the most part.

[ItsMillerTime]

https://i.ibb.co/cFZPN5F/120467276-1212708482434554-2875728281481829797-n.jpg

[TheMan]

Anyways, we all lost.

They're both terrible candidates.

If anything, Joe Biden lost the least because he didn't have any overwhelming gaffes, although saying that 100 million Americans have preexisting conditions is pretty bad, lol. He did say some stupid shit but nothing that will be replayed on YouTube clips years later.

Trump came off as childish and egotistical as ever. I'm sure it was a deliberate strategy to cut Joe off to an extent, but it's still just... immature, to say the least.

We all lost... except for people like TheMan, who is obsessed with the politics of another country for some reason. What a cousin *********ing loser.
I'm expecting to get my mail in ballot from the US embassy this week and I was gonna vote for Trump but I'll be thinking of you when I vote for Sleepy Joe as a big "fukk you" to you slugger...

[warriorfan]

The latching onto white supremists is a very low iq thing to do, and proof that you have been effectively tricked.

That was a loaded question, Trump can’t really publicly denounce some of those groups because....realistically they are some of the guys who will vote for him. Just like how Biden froze up and started doing the exact same sidestepping when asked “Will you pack the Supreme Court? Will you add more justices?” It’s an intelligent move to sidestep those questions if you want to win. With both of those questions both candidates had nothing to gain but something to lose in answering them. Trump made a mistake saying “standby” which doesn’t sound great and can be very openly interpreted. He needed to give a more ambiguous and cryptic answer. If he merely said “Stand down” it would have been much better. Trump doesn’t need to pander to those guys very much to get their vote. He potentially lost more votes than he gained by adding the “Standby” portion.

[Walk on Water]

Who would have thought that Biden would match up better against Trump than Hilary?

Before people were saying Biden doesn’t know the difference between his wife and daughter. And now people are desperately trying to say Trump won. Well I thought Biden couldn’t tie a shoe? Ha ha!

[TheMan]

Who would have thought that Biden would match up better against Trump than Hilary?

Before people were saying Biden doesn’t know the difference between his wife and daughter. And now people are desperately trying to say Trump won. Well I thought Biden couldn’t tie a shoe? Ha ha!

It's called lowering the bar, Trump did an immense favor to Biden by claiming Sleepy Joe didn't even know what planet we're in. It's always a bad political move to do that, Dems did that to Dubya in 2000 and when Bush held his ground against Gore, people viewed it as a win for GWB.

[rawimpact]

I didnt realize Proud Boys was even a thing...

I know the pacific NE has a huge Antifa problem with violence
Where are these proud boys causing violent protests?

[Walk on Water]

I didnt realize Proud Boys was even a thing...

I know the pacific NE has a huge Antifa problem with violence
Where are these proud boys causing violent protests?

Not all violent protesters are Antifa. Some are republicans too.

[Patrick Chewing]

How are proud boys white supremacists? You are confused. They accept all race and color who are willing to beat up antifa

:lol

If you're White, and you're on the Right, you must be a White supremacist. The Left is brain dead. They have nothing else to say.

[Patrick Chewing]

Apparently Wallace interrupted Trump 76 times while only interrupting Biden 15 times. These media people don't realize that the American public sees this disparity and bias and they aren't having it. All this does is bring more voters to Trump's side.

[Shooter]

https://i.postimg.cc/hjNHx8D8/6h778mg5m.jpg

[TheMan]

I wonder if it was a prepared line by Biden to call the Don a clown to his face? When he said this clown, his facial gestures immediately changed and he looked a bit apologetic and then quickly said "the president" :lol It was ruthless and I bet the Left loved it, especially when the POTUS just let it go by but not helpful for the political discourse of the country.

[Shogon]

https://i.postimg.cc/hjNHx8D8/6h778mg5m.jpg

Fairly accurate. :roll:

[RRR3]

They both lost.

[Luka Doncic]

Trump won even with the interruptions because he actually spoke with reason and in detail. We didn't get anything from Biden except he has handlers and I'm more worried about his handlers.

[BigKobeFan]

The current ish vote is identical to that of telemundo poll. I think its a wrap. Latinos for trump

[Luka Doncic]

I didnt realize Proud Boys was even a thing...

I know the pacific NE has a huge Antifa problem with violence
Where are these proud boys causing violent protests?

Proud Boys are harmless. Just a bunch of Western chauvinists and it doesn't matter if you are white, black, latino or asian. As long as you are born into western culture than you represent the western male. They won't do jack.

....but if you provoke them then they will beat some ass and it happens to be soy boys who are provoking them therefore when a fight occurs it looks much more brutal from the Proud Boys.

It's like a high schooler provoking a MMA fighter.

[Patrick Chewing]

The current ish vote is identical to that of telemundo poll. I think its a wrap. Latinos for trump

Trump is the best President for Latinos. Democrats are hung up on Blacks, who make up 14% of the populations. Meanwhile, this country will be majority Latino in the near future. They keep forgetting about us. But we will be deciding elections from here on out very soon.

[DonAlphaTrump]

Trump is the best President for Latinos. Democrats are hung up on Blacks, who make up 14% of the populations. Meanwhile, this country will be majority Latino in the near future. They keep forgetting about us. But we will be deciding elections from here on out very soon.

The esses love the alpha male type

[dn41]

The people who put money on it think Biden won because the odds shortened for Biden after the debate.
I think this is a better barometer than most polls (including this one here at IH MAGA central).

[Hakkim90cc]

Trump said Proud boys stand by like he's in charge of them. Oh I forgot his daddy used to be a dragonwizard at the Klan.

[~primetime~]

The people who put money on it think Biden won because the odds shortened for Biden after the debate.
I think this is a better barometer than most polls (including this one here at IH MAGA central).

yep

https://fortune.com/2020/09/30/who-won-biden-trump-presidential-debate/

My personal thoughts on why this happened...most people tuned in to see if Biden would be a mumbling incoherent old mummy who can barely focus...now that Biden has shown he can exchange insults with Trump, stand toe-to-toe with him, and speak clearly and coherently...that was all that Vegas needed to see.

[Long Duck Dong]

It was a shitshow but Trump failed to capitalize on old Joe's dementia. I think Biden was reserved and prepared this debate but I think this will give him confidence which will actually hurt him in the next one. If he goes outside his box too much I think he will lose himself and his train of thought at which point Trump will pounce like a leopard on a helpless antelope

[diamenz]

neither candidate won over any new voters last night, or pulled any undecided swing voters their way. that debate was an absolute shit show.

[ZenMaster]

yep

https://fortune.com/2020/09/30/who-won-biden-trump-presidential-debate/

My personal thoughts on why this happened...most people tuned in to see if Biden would be a mumbling incoherent old mummy who can barely focus...now that Biden has shown he can exchange insults with Trump, stand toe-to-toe with him, and speak clearly and coherently...that was all that Vegas needed to see.

We'll just have to see. People said the exact same thing in 2016 and Trump was a bigger underdog then than vs Biden.

[kabar]

This is something most people can agree on, which is why youll never see the media push the issue. The media only pushes polarizing issues.

We need to collectively demand better, but the focus continuously stays on issues that divide us.

Yet you picked a winner. Only idiots would analyze this based on the points the candidates made because both lied through their teeth, and yes you are an idiot.

[Rolando]

I just watched the debate. What was most surprising to me is that Joe Biden made it through without some overtly senile moment.

They both scored points on each other. Trump had some great zingers. But.....Trump also seemed to be a bit in panic mode.

Shockingly, I think Biden came off as more sympathetic. I think he slightly wins this one.

[Doomsday Dallas]

Stocks are up 350 points today... so Trump won

[Rolando]

Stocks are up 350 points today... so Trump won

Both candidates are corporate politicians. Biden even more under control from the wealthy than Trump is. Stocks being up may well be a thumbs up to Biden.

[~primetime~]

We'll just have to see. People said the exact same thing in 2016 and Trump was a bigger underdog then than vs Biden.

Biden is actually doubling up Hillary in the polls and odds

[Lakers Legend#32]

Without the Proud Boys vote, Trump would be at zero.

[diamenz]

66 Percent of Spanish-Speaking Americans in Telemundo Twitter Poll Think Trump Just Won the Debate (https://www.newsweek.com/66-percent-spanish-speaking-americans-telemundo-poll-think-trump-just-won-debate-1535176)

:lebronamazed:

stand back, stand by, joe.

[~primetime~]

Oh that was a poll on Twitter?...Twitter polls are notorious for being unusable due to the retweet system that Twitter has. If one 'celeb' or someone with a shit ton of followers retweets then the poll hits their followers who could be biased.

Like if some big time conservative Trumper retweeted that poll then it will be shown to all of his Trumper followers...then those followers retweet the poll to their Trumper followers, etc

[ZenMaster]

Biden is actually doubling up Hillary in the polls and odds

Where are you getting your odds from?

[~primetime~]

Where are you getting your odds from?

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Joe-Biden-polls-lead-averages-2016-Clinton-wrong-15584094.php

this compares Hillary vs Biden during the same times in their campaigns...2016vs2020

Bidens numbers are about 2x that of Hillarys at this same time

Also, no one on either side is putting much stock into polls/odds because of 2016...which helps Biden

[ZenMaster]

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Joe-Biden-polls-lead-averages-2016-Clinton-wrong-15584094.php

this compares Hillary vs Biden during the same times in their campaigns...2016vs2020

Bidens numbers are about 2x that of Hillarys at this same time

Also, no one on either side is putting much stock into polls/odds because of 2016...which helps Biden

That article is all about polls..

You referred to betting odds earlier and said the way they changed after the debate meant Biden won it, but now you post polls.

When it comes to betting odds, Trump was considered a much bigger underdog in 2016 than this year.

[~primetime~]

I could have sworn they included vegas odds in that article...

Looking it up it looks like Hillary was around (-215) at end of Sept and Biden now (-161)...depending on the oddsmaker...so I guess you're right, Trump is less of an underdog this time.

[ZenMaster]

I could have sworn they included vegas odds in that article...

Looking it up it looks like Hillary was around (-215) at end of Sept and Biden now (-161)...depending on the oddsmaker...so I guess you're right, Trump is less of an underdog this time.

If you believe the numbers in the article, then you should be betting on Biden. He's paying out more relatively to what how big of a favorite he's considered in the polls. Looks like the odds aren't built as much around the polls this year compared to the last election, sportsbooks are getting smarter.

[~primetime~]

If you believe the numbers in the article, then you should be betting on Biden. He's paying out more relatively to what how big of a favorite he's considered in the polls. Looks like the odds aren't built as much around the polls this year compared to the last election, sportsbooks are getting smarter.

I agree...I thought the polls and odds matched...they don't

people don't buy the polls this time

[ZenMaster]

I agree...I thought the polls and odds matched...they don't

people don't buy the polls this time

People didn't buy the polls last time(at least not the people who bet), I'm pretty sure all sportsbooks worldwide who offers odds on the US election, came out with a loss on it.

It's the sporstsbook themselves who aren't buying the polls as much as last time. Will be interesting to see where the main action goes in the next couple of months.

[~primetime~]

People didn't buy the polls last time(at least not the people who bet), I'm pretty sure all sportsbooks worldwide who offers odds on the US election, came out with a loss on it.

It's the sporstsbook themselves who aren't buying the polls as much as last time. Will be interesting to see where the main action goes in the next couple of months.

that's now how oddsmaking works...they adjust the odds to get an even 50/50 of the bet on each side and then take 5% from the winning side (the rake)...they win no matter what

was that you I had this debate with a while back?

[~primetime~]

So when you see the odds jump, it's because there was a sudden burst of gamblers betting on Biden...and now the oddsmakers are adjusting the odds in an attempt to even it out and get more people to bet on Trump

[ZenMaster]

that's now how oddsmaking works...they adjust the odds to get an even 50/50 of the bet on each side and then take 5% from the winning side (the rake)...they win no matter what

was that you I had this debate with a while back?

We did, and I very diligently explained to you that that is not how it works on bet's where the initial perceived chance isn't 50/50.
Bets move the odds a bit, but not nearly as much as you think, and on events that aren't equal chance, the sportsbook take risk while retaining margins that lead to profit over multiple events.

Like I said, all sportsbooks worldwide lost money on the last US election market offering and there was no magic 5% cut(I don't know where you get this from btw as the margins are reflected in the odds and not as winners fee). When teams who are favorites and popular to bet on win, sportsbooks usually take a loss around 15-25% of the total turnover on that bet.

I think last time I also posted proof for you that all major sportsbooks lost money on the 2016 election, it's just a fact.

[KD7]

Biden got destroyed :lol

I admit he performed better than I expected tho

[tpols]

Biden got destroyed :lol

I admit he performed better than I expected tho

Another poster said it... but Trump ****ed up by going so aggressively at him constantly interrupting. Yea he won... but he won by a little. These debates should be a landslide. Biden aint Hillary, who still had her wits about her. You don't have to be so aggressive against a weak opponent. Gotta make some halftime adjustments. Still 3 more hours of debate to go. Biden and Chris Wallace already blew their load talking about COVID and BLM. They cant just keep asking the same questions right? Repealing Obamacare, COVID, asking about white supremacists, already talked about the tax rate... what else do they have?

Trump needs to come out strong again like he did in this debate, fluster sleepy joe, and then SIT BACK. Let Biden stumble and mumble. There's only so many times you can hear the same old "Here's the deal folks... COVID, BLM, Racism" He needs to let Biden tank it himself.

[~primetime~]

We did, and I very diligently explained to you that that is not how it works on bet's where the initial perceived chance isn't 50/50.
Bets move the odds a bit, but not nearly as much as you think, and on events that aren't equal chance, the sportsbook take risk while retaining margins that lead to profit over multiple events.

Like I said, all sportsbooks worldwide lost money on the last US election market offering and there was no magic 5% cut(I don't know where you get this from btw as the margins are reflected in the odds and not as winners fee). When teams who are favorites and popular to bet on win, sportsbooks usually take a loss around 15-25% of the total turnover on that bet.

I think last time I also posted proof for you that all major sportsbooks lost money on the 2016 election, it's just a fact.

yeah I'm not going to go in this circle again, but youre wrong. I think you found one random place that somehow lost money on the 2016 election, but that isn't typical at all. It's usually completely bet driven, and I absolutely guarantee you that this recent jump for Biden was bet driven....you think all the oddsmakers of the world just got together and talked it out after the debates and agreed that Biden won?...no they saw people suddenly bet a certain way.

I mean just read the article:

https://fortune.com/2020/09/30/who-won-biden-trump-presidential-debate/
Election Betting Odds and sites like it “base their projections on money laid down by regular people from around the world on a host of betting sites rather than on opinion polls or on the views of pundits or insiders,”

[AlternativeAcc.]

Another poster said it... but Trump ****ed up by going so aggressively at him constantly interrupting. Yea he won... but he won by a little. These debates should be a landslide. Biden aint Hillary, who still had her wits about her. You don't have to be so aggressive against a weak opponent. Gotta make some halftime adjustments. Still 3 more hours of debate to go. Biden and Chris Wallace already blew their load talking about COVID and BLM. They cant just keep asking the same questions right? Repealing Obamacare, COVID, asking about white supremacists, already talked about the tax rate... what else do they have?

Trump needs to come out strong again like he did in this debate, fluster sleepy joe, and then SIT BACK. Let Biden stumble and mumble. There's only so many times you can hear the same old "Here's the deal folks... COVID, BLM, Racism" He needs to let Biden tank it himself.

I noticed Biden, by just getting his time to speak was failing miserably. Its almost like he was being let off the hook by Trump interrupting because he could just laugh or throw out a one liner, which is actually more substantial than anything he has to say.

Trump literally just has to let Biden speak with no interruptions and it'll be a blowout. Thats how incompetent Biden really is.

[~primetime~]

https://tunicatravel.com/blog/2018/08/sports-betting-and-house-edge/


Bettors are sometimes misled into thinking that gives the house a 10 percent edge, which would be very high casino standards.

Actually, the house edge is 4.55 percent. Here’s how it works:

Let’s say you and I each bet $11 on opposite sides of a game. Between us, we risk $22. The winner gets his $11 back plus $10 in winnings, for a total of $21.

The house keeps $1. Divide that house profit by the $22 risked, then multiply by 100 to convert to percent, and you get 4.55 percent.

Oddsmakers set the spread to attract bettors to both sides of the wager. As long as somewhere close to the same amount of money is attracted on each side, the house is guaranteed a profit. That make the spread not so much a prediction of what will happen in the game, but a reflection of bettor behavior.

Winning half your bets will not break even, it will leave you 4.55 percent in the red.


^^^ oddsmaking for dummies

[tpols]

I noticed Biden, by just getting his time to speak was failing miserably. Its almost like he was being let off the hook by Trump interrupting because he could just laugh or throw out a one liner, which is actually more substantial than anything he has to say.

Trump literally just has to let Biden speak with no interruptions and it'll be a blowout. Thats how incompetent Biden really is.

Yup... exactly. All Biden had to do after being interrupted was smile, laugh and call him a clown or tell him to shut up. Easy words. Trump has to let him get at least 3 sentences out each time and not impulsively react to something, even if it's a lie. Because the longer sleepy goes on, the more the nueron connections in his brain stop firing off in the correct pattern... and he inevitably will have some meme worthy gaffe that the Don can market wholesale.

[bladefd]

Interesting, majority of ish think Trump won. How will this forum look if and when Biden wins the election?? Massive meltdowns and rage, outcry over fraud ballots, crying about Democrats double voting, antifa, the coup by the deep state, oh you name it :oldlol:

[DoctorP]

Im stumped.

Trumps nuts but seems truly passionate. Bidens a lying career politician but seems like a good guy.

It all comes down to policy.

[SATAN]

You'll find better structure debates with colleges with two Ph.D professors going at each other. I don't know why something as serious as presidential debates don't just borrow from the college structure debates.


The media give people what they want. It's unfortunate but true. Go back into the debate thread and look at how excited people seemed to type in their reactions to every little one liner or whatever the case may have been. They can pretend it doesn't effect them but they are sheep to the highest degree. Thread after thread proves it. They want this because it challenges their emotions, gives them a bad guy/good guy to root for. No point living in denial guys.

This is why the world laughs and shakes their heads at Americans. ****ing pathetic. :oldlol:

[DoctorP]

The media give people what they want. It's unfortunate but true. Go back into the debate thread and look at how excited people seemed to type in their reactions to every little one liner or whatever the case may have been. They can pretend it doesn't effect them but they are sheep to the highest degree. Thread after thread proves it. They want this because it challenges their emotions, gives them a bad guy/good guy to root for. No point living in denial guys.

This is why the world laughs and shakes their heads at Americans. ****ing pathetic. :oldlol:

Usa has gone low iq. Jay z said it best: if he could rhyme like talib kweli he would but he dumbed himself down, doubled his dollars.

Im not voting for this freakshow of idiocracy...

Or maybe i will but just not participate in the process i dunno...

[BigKobeFan]

Im stumped.

Trumps nuts but seems truly passionate. Bidens a lying career politician but seems like a good guy.

It all comes down to policy.

What is biden's policy?

[ZenMaster]

yeah I'm not going to go in this circle again, but youre wrong. I think you found one random place that somehow lost money on the 2016 election, but that isn't typical at all. It's usually completely bet driven, and I absolutely guarantee you that this recent jump for Biden was bet driven....you think all the oddsmakers of the world just got together and talked it out after the debates and agreed that Biden won?...no they saw people suddenly bet a certain way.

I mean just read the article:

https://fortune.com/2020/09/30/who-won-biden-trump-presidential-debate/
Election Betting Odds and sites like it “base their projections on money laid down by regular people from around the world on a host of betting sites rather than on opinion polls or on the views of pundits or insiders,”

Some random place? I showed you how the biggest bookmakers in the world lost money my man. Here's an article for you as well, talking about PaddyPower/Betfair:


Paddy Power Betfair blamed the unlikely pairing of Donald Trump and the Manchester United striker Zlatan Ibrahimovic as it cut its full-year profit forecast.

The “unexpected US election outcome”, in which Trump triumphed over Hillary Clinton in November, cost the bookmaker £5m as it paid out to punters who backed him for the White House.

An outsiderÂ’s victory usually favours bookmakers because they end up paying out to very few people. And if a flurry of bets are placed on an outsider, at a horse race for instance, the bookmaker will usually respond by shortening the odds to limit what it will pay out.

But in the case of Trump, bookmakers refused to believe he had a good chance of winning right up until election day and did not adjust his odds.

That meant big returns for punters who believed all along that he had a chance.

Created last year by the merger of Paddy Power and Betfair, the group also suffered a £35m hit from “customer friendly” sports results towards the end of 2016.

These included 12 goals in 12 games for Ibrahimovic, who the bookmaker said typically attracts the biggest stakes from gamblers betting on a goalscorer.

Revenues were up 11% but the group cut its forecast for full-year underlying profits, which it had previously said could reach £405m, to about the “mid-point” between £390m and £405m.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/23/paddy-power-betfair-blames-donald-trump-zlatan-ibrahimovic-profits-dip

Look how it's described how that company made less money than they were predicting because of "customer friendly" results, that means not enough upsets.

And thank you for pointing out that the margin is reflected in the odds, and not just some cut you take from the winners when settling bets.


While 69% of individual election bets placed with the bookmaker William Hill picked Trump as the winner, most appear to have been relatively small wagers. Roughly three-quarters of the stake money bet with William Hill was on a Clinton victory. That appeared to be the safe bet, after all: Bookmakers were giving Trump only a 20% chance of winning on Tuesday.

https://money.com/donald-trump-2016-election-win-gambling-bets/

[ZenMaster]

https://tunicatravel.com/blog/2018/08/sports-betting-and-house-edge/

Bettors are sometimes misled into thinking that gives the house a 10 percent edge, which would be very high casino standards.

Actually, the house edge is 4.55 percent. Here’s how it works:

Let’s say you and I each bet $11 on opposite sides of a game. Between us, we risk $22. The winner gets his $11 back plus $10 in winnings, for a total of $21.

The house keeps $1. Divide that house profit by the $22 risked, then multiply by 100 to convert to percent, and you get 4.55 percent.

Oddsmakers set the spread to attract bettors to both sides of the wager. As long as somewhere close to the same amount of money is attracted on each side, the house is guaranteed a profit. That make the spread not so much a prediction of what will happen in the game, but a reflection of bettor behavior.

Winning half your bets will not break even, it will leave you 4.55 percent in the red.


^^^ oddsmaking for dummies

You're misunderstanding what it's written here. This talks about the spread, which is the same thing I said, that you can only really obtain a 50/50 volume split on bets that are 50/50 in nature. Lines are set to manipulate games into this, but a trader can't set a line on a US election bet.

I'll give you an easy example:

If the Lakers play the Hawks early in the season at Staples, Hawks at +400 for a win. With all the fans the Lakers have, do you think that 20% of all the money bet on that game goes on a Hawks win? In reality it's more like 8-13%.

[TheMan]

...

[TheMan]

66 Percent of Spanish-Speaking Americans in Telemundo Twitter Poll Think Trump Just Won the Debate (https://www.newsweek.com/66-percent-spanish-speaking-americans-telemundo-poll-think-trump-just-won-debate-1535176)

:lebronamazed:

stand back, stand by, joe.

Online Twitter poll, unreliable to say the least.

[Patrick Chewing]

Online Twitter poll, unreliable to say the least.

Why do you hate your Spanish brothers and sisters??

[TheMan]

Why do you hate your Spanish brothers and sisters??

No, but Telemundo even stressed that it wasn't a scientific poll. Both guys were terrible last night, let's be honest.

[jstern]

Trump is still holding an impressive lead over Biden with 20 votes to 12.

Note: One of the Biden votes is a protest vote. So if you're looking for a more accurate sense of where things really stand here on ISH, it should be 21 for Trump and 11 for Biden. But you also have Biden supporters like TheMan who still have not voted, so we can add one more point for Biden. 21 to 12, with Trump still leading the way with 64% of the votes.

[ZenMaster]

Just giving you the full example Prime:

Hawk at Lakers, they play 5 games in a row under the exact same conditions. A bookie thinks Lakers have 80% chance of winning and the Hawks at 20%, he offers the following odds on all 5 games:

Hawks +375
Lakers -556

1000 people all bet $10 on each of the games, 90% of them betting on the Lakers and 10% on the Hawks.

Lakers win the first 4 games and those 900 people all had to be paid out their $1.18 in profit each time. So the bookie pays out $4248 in player profit in those games, while getting $4000 dollars from the 100 people who each lost $10 in each of the first 4 games. At this point, the bookie is down $248 on the 4 games.

In the 5th game, the Hawks win and the bookie has to pay out the 100 winners their profit of $37.50, so they pay out $3750 in player profit while getting $9000 from the 900 people who bet on LA.
This brings in a profit of $5250.

Subtract the $248 loss from the first 4 games and you end up with a $5000 profit. At that point, $50,000 has been bet on the 5 games in total, coming to a 10% edge.

[TheMan]

Trump is still holding an impressive lead over Biden with 20 votes to 12.

Note: One of the Biden votes is a protest vote. So if you're looking for a more accurate sense of where things really stand here on ISH, it should be 21 for Trump and 11 for Biden. But you also have Biden supporters like TheMan who still have not voted, so we can add one more point for Biden. 21 to 12, with Trump still leading the way with 64% of the votes.
LMAO

It's hilarious you put so much weight into what ISH thinks :oldlol:

I think both were terrible last night tbh, Biden offered very little of substance other than he isn't Trump and Trump never mentions any of the populist stuff that got him elected in 2016, I've yet to hear him make a forceful argument as to why we should reelect him.

That debate won't move the needle much at all, especially considering the fact that the Trump campaign stupidly lowered the bar for Biden so technically it's a win for Biden since he's up in the polls and because there were no obvious senile moments from Sleepy Joe and Trump's incessant interruptions won't win him a lot of female votes, which he desperately needs because Biden is killing him with women.

Debates are about convincing people to get on your side, and I fail to see how Trump did that last night with the few undecideds remaining...I haven't voted for Biden here because I don't like him, I was considering voting IRL for Trump because I'm anti abortion but with that shit show last night, I'm seriously considering sitting this one out.

[jstern]

LMAO

It's hilarious you put so much weight into what ISH thinks :oldlol:

I think both were terrible last night tbh, Biden offered very little of substance other than he isn't Trump and Trump never mentions any of the populist stuff that got him elected in 2016, I've yet to hear him make a forceful argument as to why we should reelect him.

That debate won't move the needle much at all, especially considering the fact that the Trump campaign stupidly lowered the bar for Biden so technically it's a win for Biden since he's up in the polls and because there were no obvious senile moments from Sleepy Joe and Trump's incessant interruptions won't win him a lot of female votes, which he desperately needs because Biden is killing him with women.

Debates are about convincing people to get on your side, and I fail to see how Trump did that last night with the few undecideds remaining...I haven't voted for Biden here because I don't like him, I was considering voting IRL for Trump because I'm anti abortion but with that shit show last night, I'm seriously considering sitting this one out.

It's an ISH vote, so I'm just simply reporting on it within the tread. It's not like I said, "Trump is going to win because he's destroying Biden in the ISH vote."

I am surprised by how one sided it is.

I could have sworn you were a die hard Biden supporter. So I guess you're more of the for a LACK of a better term, "Orange man bad." I try to be fair, so I'm going to remove the point that I added for Biden. And so it should now be 21 to 11 in Trump's favor.

[diamenz]

this poll doesn't hold any water... the question may have been 'who's your man for nov 4th'. either candidate could have won the debate by a long shot and the results would have been the same, lol. as far as i can see, cleverness is the only one that voted without any bias.

nobody 'won', because most voters have already decided and the rest of them didn't get anything substantive out of last night to sway them one way or the other.

[~primetime~]

Just giving you the full example Prime:

Hawk at Lakers, they play 5 games in a row under the exact same conditions. A bookie thinks Lakers have 80% chance of winning and the Hawks at 20%, he offers the following odds on all 5 games:

Hawks +375
Lakers -556

1000 people all bet $10 on each of the games, 90% of them betting on the Lakers and 10% on the Hawks.

Lakers win the first 4 games and those 900 people all had to be paid out their $1.18 in profit each time. So the bookie pays out $4248 in player profit in those games, while getting $4000 dollars from the 100 people who each lost $10 in each of the first 4 games. At this point, the bookie is down $248 on the 4 games.

In the 5th game, the Hawks win and the bookie has to pay out the 100 winners their profit of $37.50, so they pay out $3750 in player profit while getting $9000 from the 900 people who bet on LA.
This brings in a profit of $5250.

Subtract the $248 loss from the first 4 games and you end up with a $5000 profit. At that point, $50,000 has been bet on the 5 games in total, coming to a 10% edge.

It wouldn't happen like that. Once a line is released it is instantly affected by bets placed. You think all the bookies of the world get together and agree on odds?

It's like the stock market...a new stock is thrown out with a starting IPO determined by several things, but instantly after that the price is driven by the public.

With Trump-Biden... this debate happened and then following the debate gamblers placed bets up Biden thus decreasing his odds. The articles on this literally say that. It is NOT a case of bookies watching the debate and then all of them unanimously agreeing that Biden won.

[rawimpact]

No, but Telemundo even stressed that it wasn't a scientific poll. Both guys were terrible last night, let's be honest.

Oh no, not telemundo! Please not telemundo!

[ZenMaster]

It wouldn't happen like that. Once a line is released it is instantly affected by bets placed. You think all the bookies of the world get together and agree on odds?

It's like the stock market...a new stock is thrown out with a starting IPO determined by several things, but instantly after that the price is driven by the public.

With Trump-Biden... this debate happened and then following the debate gamblers placed bets up Biden thus decreasing his odds. The articles on this literally say that. It is NOT a case of bookies watching the debate and then all of them unanimously agreeing that Biden won.

That's exactly how it happens on a game like Lakers - Hawks. I literally work in this business for a gambling company, at least for another 6 months and then we'll see, and I have access to data that shows this.

Bookies don't get together, but they do check and keep an eye on the odds offered at competitors and that often influences the base price as well. If e.g Pinnacle or Bet365 changes odds on an event, all other bookies follow suit through their automated algorithms.

Do you think that people across all bookies have bet the same amount of money on each candidate on all bookies in the world? The odds on the two candidates, no matter which sportsbook you look and where in the world they operate, they have almost identical odds offered at the moment.

If the odds are only driven by the number of bets placed, it means that the customers of Bet365 went and placed exactly the same amount relative to the volume already taken on the market, as the people who plays on Betfair, PaddyPower, Ladbrokes and so on. That shit is impossible my man.

[TheMan]

Oh no, not telemundo! Please not telemundo!

These guys were touting a Telemundo online poll that showed Trump winning the debate by a large margin, just reminded them that it wasn't a scientific poll, that's all...keep up.

[~primetime~]

If the odds are only driven by the number of bets placed, it means that the customers of Bet365 went and placed exactly the same amount relative to the volume already taken on the market, as the people who plays on Betfair, PaddyPower, Ladbrokes and so on. That shit is impossible my man.
all of those places have slightly different odds and when gamblers see one of them is off they jump on it thus evening out the field...for big places the odds are basically automated with software that is all based around the money bet. For your local bookie maybe he is going off his intuition, but that would literally be 'gambling' on his part which is bad.

the odds ARE driven by the bets made first and foremost...every article out there on this subject states that

How Do Bookmakers Generate Sports Odds? (https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/guides/betting-101/how-bookmakers-generate-odds/)

How Are Odds Determined?
Odds are engineered to attract equal action on both sides of a betting line. In a perfect world, a sportsbook receives equal betting volume on both sides of a wager then, win or lose, they’ll make 5-10% on the juice (or ‘vig’).


if you are just in denial of this, I don't know what else to tell you here...the gamblers determine the lines...I'm sorry but that's just how it is

[ZenMaster]

all of those places have slightly different odds and when gamblers see one of them is off they jump on it thus evening out the field...for big places the odds are basically automated with software that is all based around the money bet. For your local bookie maybe he is going off his intuition, but that would literally be 'gambling' on his part which is bad.

the odds ARE driven by the bets made first and foremost...every article out there on this subject states that

How Do Bookmakers Generate Sports Odds? (https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/guides/betting-101/how-bookmakers-generate-odds/)

How Are Odds Determined?
Odds are engineered to attract equal action on both sides of a betting line. In a perfect world, a sportsbook receives equal betting volume on both sides of a wager then, win or lose, they’ll make 5-10% on the juice (or ‘vig’).


if you are just in denial of this, I don't know what else to tell you here...the gamblers determine the lines...I'm sorry but that's just how it is

As it says, odds are engineered to ATTRACT equal action. But on many bets the odds are not attractive enough and therefore it plays out like in the example I gave you, where the profit is generated when upsets happen.

When Lakers and Hawks play, every 5th person doesn't go and bet on the Hawks even though they have a 20% chance of winning. Most people want safe wins and the Lakers are very popular worldwide, so the sportsbook gain their house edge by offering odds like in the example I gave earlier.

Here's the article on how they lost money on the previous election:


An outsider’s victory usually favours bookmakers because they end up paying out to very few people. And if a flurry of bets are placed on an outsider, at a horse race for instance, the bookmaker will usually respond by shortening the odds to limit what it will pay out.


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/23/paddy-power-betfair-blames-donald-trump-zlatan-ibrahimovic-profits-dip

[ZenMaster]

Going into the 2013 British Open golf tournament, Las Vegas sportsbooks pegged Phil Mickelson as a 25/1 long shot to win, while Tiger Woods had the best odds of 8/1 against the field.

At 43 years of age, Mickelson began the final round five strokes back from the leader and sitting in a tie for ninth place. He reportedly was 12/1 against the field before the final round.

He shot a final round of 66 (-5) to win the championship.

While it’s unknown exactly how much Mickelson’s win cost the books, it definitely stung.

“Mickelson back then was getting action no matter what,” Eric Osterman, a race and sportsbook manager at the Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook, told US Bets. “That was when Tiger first had his issues, so Mickelson was the most popular golfer in the world. I don’t think he was even playing well at the time.”

Nevada books were in the black $83,000 from the “other” category in July 2012, and they won $2.6 million there in June 2013. So, the (non) winnings in July 2013 were off significantly in year-over-year and month-over-month comparisons.

https://www.usbets.com/nevada-sportsbooks-five-year-winning-streak/

The whole article describes what happened the last time Nevada sportsbooks had a negative month, which shouldn't be possible if all they had to do was adjust the odds a bit to ensure equal action.

[~primetime~]

Okay so you describe to me how you think all of the oddsmakers moved in favor of Biden after the debate?...if the bets placed had no affect on it, how did it happen?

[ZenMaster]

Okay so you describe to me how you think all of the oddsmakers moved in favor of Biden after the debate?...if the bets placed had no affect on it, how did it happen?

I'm not saying bets placed doesn't have an affect on it, but on a bet like this there are a lot of other factors a well.

Yes, some people went and placed bets after the debate, but the oddsmakers watched it themselves as well and like you and could quickly gauge through instant polls and and watching MSM who would be the perceived winner, which is something that's always considered to have an effect on who's considered to be the favorite to win.

These bookies are European and all changed their odds by almost an identical amount at the exact same time. There would have to have been a lot of money placed on it for it to drive the line that quickly by it' own. The debate finished at like 4.30 AM, there weren't hundreds of thousands of players watching the debate and being ready to bet at that time and they didn't all place the exact same amounts for the odds to change across all those sportsbooks.
You could say that there must have been a few very big bets, but those have to be accepted directly by the bookies and doesn't just go through the system regularly. You can't just place 100K on Biden or Trump to win, the companies have limits on these kinds of bets and what you can have accepted automatically, exactly because of the uncertainty around them and they want tight control of their exposure.

Look, the article you posted about 50/50 exposure was only explaining spread bets, which can be manipulated to 50/50 split. But a lot of things in life doesn't have a spread, and thus uneven odds. I think you must realize, that if what you are saying is true and that sportsbooks automatically make money on all events, then it's impossible for Vegas bookies to have experienced a MONTH of taking bets with an overall loss.

These Euro bookies usually have a house edge around double of what you've described as "all bookies" to have(the 5%). It's just an FYI, they offer a little bit lower odds across the board.

[~primetime~]

That article you posted about losses in 2013...it talks about "in play" gambling being the issue...honestly I'm not sure how that even works...I am guessing that is like prop bets made during the game...maybe the equal here would be betting during the debate on many times Biden says "covid" or something lol...that's probably something that they can't really adjust on the fly...thus they got in trouble....my guess

This election is no prop bet, it is a huge deal with lots of money placed...and I seriously doubt they are trying to outsmart the public with their master political insight...they are trying to adjust in a way that they will profit huge no matter who wins the election.

[ZenMaster]

That article you posted about losses in 2013...it talks about "in play" gambling being the issue...honestly I'm not sure how that even works...I am guessing that is like prop bets made during the game...maybe the equal here would be betting during the debate on many times Biden says "covid" or something lol...that's probably something that they can't really adjust on the fly...thus they got in trouble....my guess

This election is no prop bet, it is a huge deal with lots of money placed...and I seriously doubt they are trying to outsmart the public with their master political insight...they are trying to adjust in a way that they will profit huge no matter who wins the election.

In-Play is what you could also call live betting, it's just bets that are taken during the game, has nothing to do with props. Those odds are adjusted ALL the time during the games, based on what is actually happening between the teamshttps://www.bet365.com/#/IP/B1
They also have had In-Play offerings before that month in 2013 and have had it for the 7 years after with no losing months. In-Play earns money for sportsbooks just like on bets made before games, it's considered the most significant invention within the business since regular sportsbook capabilities went online.

Sportsbooks take risk on bets that aren't 50/50 in nature, but they gain margins because they offer lower odds on each side compared to what the actual chance of the outcome is. Just like I displayed in my Lakers - Hawks example.

[DoctorP]

So far ive seen the first 20 mins of the debate and I feel Trump won.

His style is disruptive and he is able to get points in through sheer aggression. Ill be back with more notes. It's true that Biden voted for the Iraq war among other weak positions in the past and Trump is firing on all cylinders at this point.

[DoctorP]

Ok, Im an hour into it and it is devolving.

What would help Biden would be to have an ability to break his rhetoric down to digestible sub-points. He's very Buttigieg in this regard and thats where Trump gets points with the people... Trumps rhetoric is broken down to smaller one liners that hit hard and are quick responses.

Trump wins because of this.

[DoctorP]

Bidens only win so far has come in his points on Law and Order. Trump was the same ol Trump and is loyal to the right almost to a fault.

Bidens sub-points hit hard.

Trumps Proud Boys name drop was so cringe :lol

[DoctorP]

Biden also failed to detail his environmental plan and also distanced himself from Green New Deal and Sanders.

Biden has failed in this debate to be anything other than "not Donald Trump". Is that enough?

For some Americans that is enough.

[DoctorP]

The only time Biden showed real passion was when he was defending his son.

Overall winner: Trump

[Patrick Chewing]

The only time Biden showed real passion was when he was defending his son.

Overall winner: Trump

:applause:

[jstern]

Im stumped.

Trumps nuts but seems truly passionate. Bidens a lying career politician but seems like a good guy.

It all comes down to policy.

We'll be waiting for your ISH vote. The more votes the more accurate the poll will be.

[DoctorP]

We'll be waiting for your ISH vote. The more votes the more accurate the poll will be.

Done.

It wasn't a fluke that Trump beat Hilary. For an outsider, his will to win makes him effective. He breaks the rules repeatedly and effectively. He may be the future of the idiocracy.

He's not a bad debater at all. Generations of scholars will study him.

[ZenMaster]

Biden also failed to detail his environmental plan and also distanced himself from Green New Deal and Sanders.

Biden has failed in this debate to be anything other than "not Donald Trump". Is that enough?

For some Americans that is enough.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNsvlzF45ks&ab_channel=GOPWarRoom

[Draz]

Joe is what 98? He did better than we all thought or could have imagined. He held his own. In fact, I think he improved confidence. However, no one's voting for Joe Biden. It's all about his VP

[dude77]

no one's voting for harris either .. she was like 7th best in her own primaries

[dude77]

this guy lol

https://i.ibb.co/hHW1MR8/Untitledvvv.png (https://imgbb.com/)

[Draz]

no one's voting for harris either .. she was like 7th best in her own primaries

Nah man. She was the best black women they could find for their agenda.

[Draz]

this guy lol

https://i.ibb.co/hHW1MR8/Untitledvvv.png (https://imgbb.com/)

I know her. I used to work several years ago where she lived.

She's a btch. Her kids are beautiful though. Her youngest daughter looks 100% like her, ridiculous genes.

[Elosha]

The American people have overwhelmingly stated that Biden won the debate. Here's yet another indicator. Wall Street Journal / NBC has Biden up 14 points after the debate.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/biden-s-national-lead-over-trump-jumps-14-points-after-n1242018

He's also increased his lead in a number of Swing States. A number of scientifically-valid polls have found around 60% thought Biden won, and 28 or 29% thought Trump won. Keep in mind, these poll results came out before it was discovered that Trump had Covid-19.

It was not a great look for either candidate. But Trump's narcissism, pettiness, insecurity, and general rudeness were on full display. He came across as a petulant, childish bully. If another debate happens, Biden would be better served by ignoring him even more and appealing directly to the American people. He should literally just ignore all of Trump's silly gotcha interruptions.

[~primetime~]

yep all the polls moved in Biden's favor after the debate...Rasmussen which is notorious for leaning right, has Biden +8 now

Like I said earlier in this thread, Americans just needed to see that Biden could speak...it's sad that the bar was that low, but the bar the right set. They had everyone thinking Biden would come out on a walker and mumble incoherently. The expectations for Biden were about as low as they could possibly be, a naturally he beat those low expectations.

[Patrick Chewing]

It was not a great look for either candidate. But Trump's narcissism, pettiness, insecurity, and general rudeness were on full display. He came across as a petulant, childish bully. If another debate happens, Biden would be better served by ignoring him even more and appealing directly to the American people. He should literally just ignore all of Trump's silly gotcha interruptions.

So he's acting the same way he did when he completely demolished Hillary Clinton and won the Presidency. Got it!

[Elosha]

So he's acting the same way he did when he completely demolished Hillary Clinton and won the Presidency. Got it!

This time he's got a record to run on. And that record sucks.

[TheMan]

The American people have overwhelmingly stated that Biden won the debate. Here's yet another indicator. Wall Street Journal / NBC has Biden up 14 points after the debate.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/biden-s-national-lead-over-trump-jumps-14-points-after-n1242018

He's also increased his lead in a number of Swing States. A number of scientifically-valid polls have found around 60% thought Biden won, and 28 or 29% thought Trump won. Keep in mind, these poll results came out before it was discovered that Trump had Covid-19.

It was not a great look for either candidate. But Trump's narcissism, pettiness, insecurity, and general rudeness were on full display. He came across as a petulant, childish bully. If another debate happens, Biden would be better served by ignoring him even more and appealing directly to the American people. He should literally just ignore all of Trump's silly gotcha interruptions.
Fake news...

Remember, polls are fake when they favor Biden but legit when they favor Trump...

[Patrick Chewing]

This time he's got a record to run on. And that record sucks.

What sucks about it? Can you name certain things he's done or certain policies he's implemented that have made the country worse off than before he took office?

Saying his record "sucks" is just very vague and comes off as pretty subjective.

[Cleverness]

yep all the polls moved in Biden's favor after the debate...Rasmussen which is notorious for leaning right, has Biden +8 now

Like I said earlier in this thread, Americans just needed to see that Biden could speak...it's sad that the bar was that low, but the bar the right set. They had everyone thinking Biden would come out on a walker and mumble incoherently. The expectations for Biden were about as low as they could possibly be, a naturally he beat those low expectations.

That's what I said too

w/o paying attn to the actual substance, Biden sounded better than Trump. Too bad Biden's actual policies/positions are terrible & insane

[TheMan]

Looks like that recent Wall Street Journal/NBC poll where the POTUS was down 14 points wasn't an outlier...he's down 16 points in the latest CNN poll.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/10/06/politics/cnn-poll-biden-trump-2020-election/index.html

[ZenMaster]

Looks like that recent Wall Street Journal/NBC poll where the POTUS was down 14 points wasn't an outlier...he's down 16 points in the latest CNN poll.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/10/06/politics/cnn-poll-biden-trump-2020-election/index.html

It all depends on whether or not the base of all these polls are flawed like they were in 2016.

[TheMan]

It all depends on whether or not the base of all these polls are flawed like they were in 2016.

Supposedly they are also taking into account the undercounting of Trump support on this election year's cycle. From what I understand, Hillary never consistently led by as much as Biden has been and in the closing days of the election her lead was around 4 pts and she wound up winning the national vote by 2ish pts. Trump overperformed while HRC underperformed. Looks like the debate and Trump getting infected by the coronavirus did him no favors with these latest polls...

Bottom line, polling agencies take their job seriously, they know their credibility took a major hit in 2016 and it's on the line this time around. Even Rasmussen (which skews more heavily GOP) has Biden up 9 pts in their latest poll. Of course the battleground state polls are closer and Trump can still eek out a razor thin electoral college win but if the national poll numbers are still up around double digits in a little over 3 weeks, that scenario is also pretty much impossible. Trump needs to get that within the margin of error and these polls show he is nowhere near that rn.There is no doubt though that Trump will lose the national vote count by a bigger margin than the almost 3 million he lost to Clinton in 2016.If in fact Trump does come back, it will make his comeback win in 2016 look like a walk in the park, according to pundits, some outside event has to happen to move the needle towards Trump, an October surprise negative towards Biden...

Side note, polls show most voters, including Democrats, think Trump will win. I guess it's the fact that historically, incumbents rarely lose.

[999Guy]

Biden just went up 21 points in another poll.

This is getting insane.

Independents HATE Trump right now.

[ZenMaster]

Supposedly they are also taking into account the undercounting of Trump support on this election year's cycle. From what I understand, Hillary never consistently led by as much as Biden has been and in the closing days of the election her lead was around 4 pts and she wound up winning the national vote by 2ish pts. Trump overperformed while HRC underperformed. Looks like the debate and Trump getting infected by the coronavirus did him no favors with these latest polls...

Bottom line, polling agencies take their job seriously, they know their credibility took a major hit in 2016 and it's on the line this time around. Even Rasmussen (which skews more heavily GOP) has Biden up 9 pts in their latest poll. Of course the battleground state polls are closer and Trump can still eek out a razor thin electoral college win but if the national poll numbers are still up around double digits in a little over 3 weeks, that scenario is also pretty much impossible. Trump needs to get that within the margin of error and these polls show he is nowhere near that rn.There is no doubt though that Trump will lose the national vote count by a bigger margin than the almost 3 million he lost to Clinton in 2016.If in fact Trump does come back, it will make his comeback win in 2016 look like a walk in the park, according to pundits, some outside event has to happen to move the needle towards Trump, an October surprise negative towards Biden...

Side note, polls show most voters, including Democrats, think Trump will win. I guess it's the fact that historically, incumbents rarely lose.

Yeah we'll just have to wait and see. 2016 was rife with explanations as to why the polls were to be believed back then as well.

They didn't give Hillary real questions in 2016 and they're not doing it this year either, look at this garbage:

https://streamable.com/xsvb9z

Brennan notes released yesterday, which if people had any conscious would make it virtually impossible for Biden to get elected, at least if they're redacted.
There's lot of stuff coming out, also about Ukraine where Biden apparently is named in criminal Burisma litigation. The media won't cover it though, and the people who would report on these things on platforms like facebook in 2016 have been banned, so it's quite a tough battle for people to get informed.

[~primetime~]

It's hard to not look at the polls...because that is all we have really...2016 has jaded me but the current polling shows a blood bath.

betting odds are further separating too...Trump is a bigger underdog now than he has ever been.

What further makes it more believable is that pollsters are noting that there are very few swing voters this year in comparison to 2016....most voters have made up their minds already and nothing can change their vote. So there simply aren't many people left for Trump to sway.



I won't say that Biden has won, because 2016 has shown me the electoral college can prevail here...but I will say that Biden has the popular vote LOCKED, I do think it is impossible for Trump to win that, he's going to have to win over some swing states.

[CelticBaller]

Trump fans need to understand this, the polling against Hilary was never this bad this late

If Hilary had the lead Biden has right now in October of 2016, she would’ve won by 300+ electoral votes

[ZenMaster]

Trump fans need to understand this, the polling against Hilary was never this bad this late

If Hilary had the lead Biden has right now in October of 2016, she would’ve won by 300+ electoral votes

Wasn't it on the day of the election itself, that Hillary was declared an 80% favorite by 538 based on a number of polls, and Trump started the day off at +500 odds?

I don't look at the polls because I don't care as they haven't shown to be accurate in the most recent elections that has a major left vs right element. Besides, the end outcome will be the same.

[CelticBaller]

Wasn't it on the day of the election itself, that Hillary was declared an 80% favorite by 538 based on a number of polls, and Trump started the day off at +500 odds?

I don't look at the polls because I don't care as they haven't shown to be accurate in the most recent elections that has a major left vs right element. Besides, the end outcome will be the same.

So you’re using an exception as the rule?

To clearly dismiss the polls just because they wrong once(despite not being this bad against Hilary) is hilariously ignorant

[ZenMaster]

So you’re using an exception as the rule?

To clearly dismiss the polls just because they wrong once(despite not being this bad against Hilary) is hilariously ignorant

They were wrong in the last election when everyone said they were right.

They were wrong during Brexit when everyone said they were right.

Whatever they are, right or wrong, the winner in the end will be the same anyways.

[~primetime~]

The polls actually weren't even that far off in 2016...I forget the actual numbers but it was like polled for Hillary to win 3% of the vote and she won 2%... just lost in the electoral college scheme.

And there are some scenarios Trump could pull another upset via electoral college here too, but not nearly as many.... and Biden is leading in most swing states so it doesn't look likely.

[CelticBaller]

They were wrong in the last election when everyone said they were right.

They were wrong during Brexit when everyone said they were right.

Whatever they are, right or wrong, the winner in the end will be the same anyways.

Um what? The polls has Boris winning lmao.

Also the difference now is Hilary was only up 4%. Biden has an enormous lead on Trump

[ZenMaster]

Um what? The polls has Boris winning lmao.

Also the difference now is Hilary was only up 4%. Biden has an enormous lead on Trump

Boris? I was talking about Brexit in 2016.

Biden may very well win as it feels overall that the democrats are winning the information war, but I'm not going to take the polls word for it, instead just wait and see.

[Axe]

I'm looking for the welfarefan's vote here but so far i just can't see it