Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

[eliteballer]

...because he doesn’t.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Cry more

[Shogon]

https://64.media.tumblr.com/5bb5bfbb91345e05f123f2fb69c6d6f3/tumblr_mshajciBbO1qb4op4o4_250.gifv

[SouBeachTalents]

OP would still have literally hundreds of pictures of shirtless men saved on his computer without collusion

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Zero rings. Cavs wouldn't suck enough to land Irving and the owner has always been a moron.

[AirTupac]

https://64.media.tumblr.com/5bb5bfbb91345e05f123f2fb69c6d6f3/tumblr_mshajciBbO1qb4op4o4_250.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

Zero rings. Cavs wouldn't suck enough to land Irving and the owner has always been a moron.
Kawhi couldn't even make it past the 2nd round with collusion

[Kiddlovesnets]

Come on, theres nothing wrong with collusion. There are players who were lucky to be drafted into big city teams like Lakers or small market teams with competent FO like the Spurs, they dont need to collude, they cant find a better place to go. Some players are drafted by the likes of, Cavaliers and Pelicans, they have to make a move unless they want to rot in a hopeless place. Lebron has nothing to apologize for colluding, he has every right for this. Lebron's problem is that, his NBA Finals record is abysmal despite collusion, but thats a different issue.

[Roundball_Rock]

Trades are "collusion" now? :lol They didn't get Davis for free:


July 6, 2019: As part of a 3-team trade, traded by the New Orleans Pelicans to the Los Angeles Lakers; the Los Angeles Lakers traded Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, De'Andre Hunter, Brandon Ingram, cash, a 2021 1st round draft pick, a 2023 1st round draft pick and a 2024 1st round draft pick to the New Orleans Pelicans; the Los Angeles Lakers traded Isaac Bonga, Jemerrio Jones, Moritz Wagner and a 2022 2nd round draft pick to the Washington Wizards; and the Washington Wizards traded cash to the New Orleans Pelicans. (9-30 protected, unprotected in 2022) (2023 first-round pick is right to swap with LAL.) (NOP have the option to defer 2024 first-round pick to 2025.) $1MM $1.1MM

Not exactly getting AD for nothing. Ingram in particular became an all-star this year.

Nor did the Cavs get Kevin Love for free. The Cavs gave up two #1 overall picks for Love. Yeah, they didn't pan out but that wasn't known at the time of the trade.

Only joining Wade along with Bosh could even be construed as called "collusion" but that broad definition extends to other cases.

Was Jordan "colluding" to get a third HOF player (after losing) in Rodman (for a second string center) and demanding, backed by the threat of retirement, that the Bulls never let Pippen go in a trade (not to mention demanding the GOAT coach stay, again backing that demand up with the threat of retirement)? LeBron didn't threaten to retire if the Lakers didn't get AD or the Cavs didn't get Love. It should be noted these weren't idle threats, MJ made good on them in 99' when Pippen and Jackson finally left.

[3ball]

No because lebron's ball-dominance reduces teammates to play-finishers, which doesn't develop brand or young players, therefore requiring ready-made stars to win, aka team-hopping... so lebron is REQUIRED to team-hop for ready-made stars because his ball-dominant skillset doesn't develop young players or brand

and lebron isn't an elite shooter from anywhere on the floor.. defenses know lebron doesn't "get hot", so they don't have to throw bodies at him to get the ball out of his hands - opponents can play a default, stay-at-home approach that expends less energy, therefore allowing more freshness for offense (more prone to go off)..

ultimately, lebron's weak shooting and ball-dominant style doesn't shift defenses or wear down teams like the better shooting and ball movement he faces on the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off (14' Finals).. indeed, Lebron's style loses the attrition battle at the championship level, aka 4/10.. his style applies less pressure than it faces and wears the opponent down less - the best defense is a good offense (a tenet of all competition)

[red1]

No because lebron's ball-dominance reduces teammates to play-finishers, which doesn't develop brand or young players, therefore requiring ready-made stars to win, aka team-hopping... so lebron is REQUIRED to team-hop for ready-made stars because his ball-dominant skillset doesn't develop young players or brand

and lebron isn't an elite shooter from anywhere on the floor.. defenses know lebron doesn't "get hot", so they don't have to throw bodies at him to get the ball out of his hands - opponents can play a default, stay-at-home approach that expends less energy, therefore allowing more freshness for offense (more prone to go off)..

ultimately, lebron's weak shooting and ball-dominant style doesn't shift defenses or wear down teams like the better shooting and ball movement he faces on the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off (14' Finals, 09' ECF, 17' Finals, and many more).. indeed, Lebron's style loses the attrition battle at the championship level, aka 4/10.. his style applies less pressure than it faces and wears the opponent down less - the best defense is a good offense (a tenet of all competition)

is he better than kg and moses malone though?


top 15?

[red1]

https://64.media.tumblr.com/5bb5bfbb91345e05f123f2fb69c6d6f3/tumblr_mshajciBbO1qb4op4o4_250.gifv


Cry more

:roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

top 15?

:lol 1-9ball debates top 15 with the voices in his head when the real world will be debating LeBron as GOAT in about 10 days. Hence all these meltdowns. They know the "Is LeBron GOAT?" train is leaving the station soon. Sure, there will be plenty of media partisans backing MJ and KAJ will be erased from the debate, but there will be a debate as MJ's throne is increasingly threatened by LeBron. What really drives 1-9ball and co. crazy is LeBron is still going strong. His book won't end in 2020.

[3ball]

is he better than kg and moses malone though?


top 15?

I have him at #11 or 12, so ahead of KG and Moses, who are closer to #20

ultimately, lebron was 3/9 in the Finals, so that means he'd have 3 Finals appearances if his career was in the West.. plus this year, so that's 4 total Finals appearances.. that's why winning the Finals matters, otherwise your appearance was conference-dependant

[red1]

I have him at #11 or 12, so ahead of KG and Moses, who are closer to #20

ultimately, lebron was 3/9 in the Finals, so that means he'd have 3 Finals appearances if his career was in the West.. plus this year, so 4 total Finals appearances.. that's why winning the Finals matters,botherwise your appearance was conference-dependant

shut the **** up you dumbass flip-flopping loser.


the pippen-led bulls won 55 games without mj.


mj never won without a 50-win cast that could make the conference semis without him.

[StrongLurk]

Lebron has never won while "colluding". 2011, 2015, 2019...no rings.

[red1]

:lol 1-9ball debates top 15 with the voices in his head when the real world will be debating LeBron as GOAT in about 10 days. Hence all these meltdowns. They know the "Is LeBron GOAT?" train is leaving the station soon. Sure, there will be plenty of media partisans backing MJ and KAJ will be erased from the debate, but there will be a debate as MJ's throne is increasingly threatened by LeBron. What really drives 1-9ball and co. crazy is LeBron is still going strong. His book won't end in 2020.

he's so retarded that he tries to argue that kg and moses malone are better. he's flip-flopped now that he's been cornered.


then he claims mj would win with mo williams as his second option, no problem.


in reality mj didnt win a single ring without his 55-win cast. it kills him that pippen was able to win 55-games without mj. :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

in reality mj didnt win a single ring without his 55-win cast. it kills him that pippen was able to win 55-games without mj. :oldlol:


Yup! :lol

Hell, it could have been 60 if Pippen was healthy all year. When he was healthy (70 games) they had a 59 win pace, with one of those losses being in a meaningless 82nd game vs. the Knicks (the Knicks, Bulls were already locked into the 2nd and 3rd seeds due to tiebreakers, despite being only 1 game behind the Hawks).

[3ball]

mj never won without a 50-win cast that could make the conference semis without him.



MJ never played in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning - an all-time juggernaut with many HOF's was required to win the 80's East - weak casts like 01' Iverson, 03' Kidd, 07' Lebron or 09' Dwight would have no chance in the 80's East

so you shouldn't brag about anything that happened in the 00's East or 10's East (1-star conferences, outside of lebron's super-teams from 11-17')

[red1]

MJ never played in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning - an all-time juggernaut with many HOF's was required to win the 80's East - weak casts like 01' Iverson, 03' Kidd, 07' Lebron or 09' Dwight would have no chance in the 80's East

dude lebron BEAT the 70 win team. only player with a finals MVP over a 70-win team.


mj was ON the 70-win team. carried by pippen who won 55-games without him.



thats the difference.

[red1]

Yup! :lol

Hell, it could have been 60 if Pippen was healthy all year. When he was healthy (70 games) they had a 59 win pace, with one of those losses being in a meaningless 82nd game vs. the Knicks (the Knicks, Bulls were already locked into the 2nd and 3rd seeds due to tiebreakers, despite being only 1 game behind the Hawks).

100%. its the reason why he is so salty.


the bulls won 50+ games without mj.

[3ball]

dude lebron BEAT the 70 win team. only player with a finals MVP over a 70-win team.




but Kyrie outplayed their #1 option and MVP

if Rik Smits outplayed Shaq in 00', would Miller get credit for a goat accomplishment?.. if Kenyon outplayed Duncan in 03', would Kidd get credit for a goat accomplishment?.. you can do this with any Finals - these guys wouldn't get credit so why should Lebron?.. he clearly had a SHARED LOAD (tiny margins over teammates in stat categories)

also, Baron Davis and Dwight Howard beat 67-win teams (mj never did), so other guys can use the win argument over mj too, which means it isn't a goat argument..

otoh, only mj has goat arguments that only apply to him... aka mj has the goat production rate (bpm, PER, ws/48, PPG)... and he won the most "best player" rings in the modern era/3-pointer basketball (mj has 6 and 2nd place has 3)... mj also has the most 2-way accolades (9 seasons of scoring title + 1st team defense)

the little bullshit you guys come up with for lebron doesn't compare

[red1]

but Kyrie outplayed their #1 option and MVP

if Rik Smits outplayed Shaq in 00', would Miller get credit for a goat accomplishment?.. if Kenyon outplayed Duncan in 03', would Kidd get credit for a goat accomplishment?.. you can do this with any Finals - these guys wouldn't get credit so why should Lebron?.. he clearly had a SHARED LOAD (tiny margins over teammates in stat categories)

also, Baron Davis and Dwight Howard beat 67-win teams (mj never did), so other guys can use the win argument over mj too, which means it isn't a goat argument..

otoh, only mj has goat arguments that only apply to him... aka mj has the goat production rate (bpm, PER, ws/48, PPG)... and he won the most "best player" rings in the modern era/3-pointer basketball (mj has 6 and 2nd place has 3)... mj also has the most 2-way accolades (9 seasons of scoring title + 1st team defense)

the little bullshit you guys come up with for lebron doesn't compare

nope.


facts are facts.


lebron lead both teams in every stat. and he won the finals MVP.


meanwhile pippen won 55-games when the bulls lost mj and didnt replace him with anyone.

[3ball]

nope.


facts are facts.


lebron lead both teams in every stat. and he won the finals MVP.


meanwhile pippen won 55-games when the bulls lost mj and didnt replace him with anyone.

nope.. facts are facts... lebron led each category by tiny margins (shared load), while mj led pippen by 10-30 ppg (carry job), while sharing the other categories like lebron (tiny margins)

so lebron shares the load with teammates that average nearly as much, while mj carried the scoring load and shares the other categories like bron

[Lebron23]

...because he doesn’t.

You're a homo. I'll bitch slap you back to China

[red1]

nope.. facts are facts... lebron led each category by tiny margins (shared load), while mj led pippen by 10-30 ppg (carry job), while sharing the other categories like lebron (tiny margins)

so lebron shares the load with teammates that average nearly as much, while mj carried the scoring load and shares the other categories like bron

why did pippen win 55-games without mj then?


why is lebron the only player with a finals MVP over a 70-win team then?

[Spurs m8]

Come on, theres nothing wrong with collusion. There are players who were lucky to be drafted into big city teams like Lakers or small market teams with competent FO like the Spurs, they dont need to collude, they cant find a better place to go. Some players are drafted by the likes of, Cavaliers and Pelicans, they have to make a move unless they want to rot in a hopeless place. Lebron has nothing to apologize for colluding, he has every right for this. Lebron's problem is that, his NBA Finals record is abysmal despite collusion, but thats a different issue.

It does matter though when you claim to be GOAT, collude multiple times, and still lag behind in every area.

[GrayGoat]

Op thoughts on shirtless muscle hunks?

[3ball]

shut the **** up you dumbass flip-flopping loser.


the pippen-led bulls won 55 games without mj.


mj never won without a 50-win cast that could make the conference semis without him.


why did pippen win 55-games without mj then?


why is lebron the only player with a finals MVP over a 70-win team then?

lowry just won 55.. marc gasol won 55.. tons and tons and tons of guys won 55 - it's nothing, especially for a team with 3-peat know-how and system.

but a great system by itself isn't enough to get past the 2nd round

btw, mj carried 8 seeds that were 20-30 win teams, while lebron didn't have to play with bad teams in the playoffs (04', 05' or 19') - he only played with developed high seeds in the playoffs, and never actually had bad teams.. people forget that the conference was weak and 1-star teams were routinely winning it.

remember, lebron missed the 05' playoffs despite having the East all-star center on his team.. he needed to add a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY to make it in 06' (top 5 defense), aka a DEVELOPED high seed in a 1-star conference

[Stanley Kobrick]

i respect brans collusion. he went to a 33 win Cavs team and a 35 win lakers team, both with unpromised young guys, no coaching and long winning drought. it's not brans fault other players are motivated to join him, after all he makes the Finals quite often with practically anyone roster and coach he plays with.

[3ball]

i respect brans collusion. he went to a 33 win Cavs team and a 35 win lakers team, both teams with unpromised young guys, no coaching and long winning drought. it's not brans fault other players are motivated to join him, after all he makes the Finals quite often with practically anyone roster and coach he plays with.

Ingram was a 25 ppg all-star and most improved

so the historical record shows that many guys saw much lower stats alongside lebron, including Ingram, Jamison, Hughes, Wade, Love, Bosh, Rose, IT, Hood, Crowder and many more

and we're talking massive drop-off's here

ultimately, lebron's ball-dominance reduces teammates to play-finishers, which doesn't develop brand or young players, therefore requiring ready-made stars to win, aka team-hopping... so lebron is REQUIRED to team-hop for ready-made stars because his ball-dominant skillset doesn't develop young players or brand

[StrongLurk]

Ingram was a 25 ppg all-star and most improved

so the historical record shows that many guys saw much lower stats alongside lebron, including Ingram, Jamison, Hughes, Wade, Love, Bosh, Rose, IT, Hood, Crowder and many more

and we're talking massive drop-off's here

ultimately, lebron's ball-dominance reduces teammates to play-finishers, which doesn't develop brand or young players, therefore requiring ready-made stars to win, aka team-hopping... so lebron is REQUIRED to team-hop for ready-made stars because his ball-dominant skillset doesn't develop young players or brand

None of this is true.

Kawhi who is like a clone of 98 MJ REDUCED Paul George drastically (who you thought you flourish next to Kawhi and average 30ppg), meanwhile plenty of guys on the Raptors had career years with Kawhi leaving. To think that PG's best year was playing with WESTBROOK who is completely inferior to Lebron and is MORE BALL DOMINANT than Lebron.

3ball, all you are is a Lebron hater...that's it. All the logic/reason/effort you put into posting doesn't matter because it's only through the viewpoint of a loser who only hates on Lebron...just pathetic man.

[Stanley Kobrick]

Ingram was a 25 ppg all-star and most improved

so the historical record shows that many guys saw much lower stats alongside lebron, including Ingram, Jamison, Hughes, Wade, Love, Bosh, Rose, IT, Hood, Crowder and many more

and we're talking massive drop-off's here

ultimately, lebron's ball-dominance reduces teammates to play-finishers, which doesn't develop brand or young players, therefore requiring ready-made stars to win, aka team-hopping... so lebron is REQUIRED to team-hop for ready-made stars because his ball-dominant skillset doesn't develop young players or brand
going from 18 ppg to 23 ppg is not uncommon when field goal attempts increase from 14 fga to 18 fga. Lakers Ingraham had 1.8 3pa per game, Pelicans ingraham had 6.2 3pa. as field goal attempts go up from #2 option to #1, naturally so do points. his efficiency stayed relatively the same. but most importantly the Pelicans record went down with his addition, the trade for ingraham lonzo and hart made Pelicans worse

[3ball]

going from 18 ppg to 23 ppg is not uncommon when field goal attempts increase from 14 fga to 18 fga. Lakers Ingraham had 1.8 3pa per game, Pelicans ingraham had 6.2 3pa. as field goal attempts go up from #2 option to #1, naturally so do points. his efficiency stayed relatively the same. but most importantly the Pelicans record went down with his addition, the trade for ingraham lonzo and hart made Pelicans worse

everyone has their ppg and apg decline alongside lebron, not just Ingram

it's Ingram, Jamison, Hughes, Wade, Love, Bosh, Crowder, Rose, Hood, IT

otoh, the list of good players that excelled is short - Mo and Kyrie - only the elite shooters do well alongside lebron

otoh, mj was skilled to play off-ball and provide an assist target to lesser skilled players, so everyone excelled alongside him, including weak shooters like Pippen or Hughes - ultimately, rookies like Grant, Pippen and BJ grew by leaps and bounds every year and into all-stars by 94'.. otoh, no one improves alongside lebron because he turns them into play-finisher, so he needs READY-MADE STARS (can't develop brand or young players)

[Lebron23]

No Pip No chip

[red1]

lowry just won 55.. marc gasol won 55.. tons and tons and tons of guys won 55 - it's nothing, especially for a team with 3-peat know-how and system.

but a great system by itself isn't enough to get past the 2nd round

btw, mj carried 8 seeds that were 20-30 win teams, while lebron didn't have to play with bad teams in the playoffs (04', 05' or 19') - he only played with developed high seeds in the playoffs, and never actually had bad teams.. people forget that the conference was weak and 1-star teams were routinely winning it.

remember, lebron missed the 05' playoffs despite having the East all-star center on his team.. he needed to add a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY to make it in 06' (top 5 defense), aka a DEVELOPED high seed in a 1-star conference

blah blah blah.


lebron = only finals MVP over 70-win team.


pippen's bulls = 55-win 2nd round team.

[3ball]

No Pip No chip

it's been proven that mj won in spite of pippen:

pippen averaged 12 on 42% against the 88-90' Pistons so the bulls lost everytime... anyone OTHER than pippen would've won, so mj didn't need pippen..

again, mj won in spite of pippen's 16/6/5 and shit efficiency.. mj is the goat so he wins with the most guys and Pippen is just one of many guys that mj would've won with, especially in the 2-star format of the 90's

new fans be like, "so mj won 6 rings?.. okay well his sidekick must've been a boss, let's see his stats... hmmmm.. 16/5/5 with shit efficiency and Chris Mullin destroying him on the regular.."

[red1]

No Pip No chip

basically.

[ThiccBoi]

No Pip No chip

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/IqraMxCJYBZIclISYFf5JqED0oY=/0x301:3498x2122/960x500/media/img/mt/2018/11/RTR4FRBL/original.jpg

[Kiddlovesnets]

It does matter though when you claim to be GOAT, collude multiple times, and still lag behind in every area.

LeBron already lost the chance to be GOAT in 2007 when he was swept by spurs, since 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary(but not sufficient) condition for GOAT. So it doesn’t matter what he would do after 2007, his ceiling would be #2 however he tried. Collusion did move him into borderline top 5, so it helped his legacy.

[Spurs m8]

LeBron already lost the chance to be GOAT in 2007 when he was swept by spurs, since 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary(but not sufficient) condition for GOAT. So it doesn’t matter what he would do after 2007, his ceiling would be #2 however he tried. Collusion did move him into borderline top 5, so it helped his legacy.

Disagree.

100% success isn't the GOAT decider tbh

But a 33% finals record, with multiple collusions is pretty pathetic. Especially given the bailouts too.

But all of that aside....as a basketball player, he just isn't a better player...its that simple.

[fourkicks44]

Why OP, why?

It's time to give it up and enjoy the fact the Lakers have all but won another championship.

You sound like a God damn ungrateful idiot.

Smartin up, man. You gonna miss the greatest times.

When it's gone, it's gone.

Don't you want to tell your grandkids you witnesses greatness?

It's time to lay down your sword

It is time.

[Spurs m8]

Why OP, why?

It's time to give it up and enjoy the fact the Lakers have all but won another championship.

You sound like a God damn ungrateful idiot.

Smartin up, man. You gonna miss the greatest times.

When it's gone, it's gone.

Don't you want to tell your grandkids you witnesses greatness?

It's time to lay down your sword

It is time.

What greatness?lol

Unfortunately, kids today don't know true greatness, which is why I get that they think they are witnessing it

[fourkicks44]

What greatness?lol

Unfortunately, kids today don't know true greatness, which is why I get that they think they are witnessing it

Believe me man, nobody wants to see the Lakers win a ring less than me.

But if anyone should lay down the sword it's you Brother.

You gotta let that shit go.

[Stanley Kobrick]

on RealGM ive noticed the user eliteballer has been having a similar mental collapse over Lakers success this year. same posts, same avy, different user name. everyone kept bullying and banning him there also, i'm guessing he's banned again right now :( btw, whatever happened to duncan21mvp and kawhileonard2? does anyone know, can anyone figure it out

[Lebowski]

I'm confused? Your team is about to win it all. Why does this occupy your mind, who cares about that (unless you are 15 years old or just another "ISH-moron", you strike me as neither btw). Almost time to celebrate, enjoy

[Replay32]

I thought Lebron fulfilled the terms of all his contracts? He just has exercised his rights as a free agent like KD, Kyrie, and Kawhi. Am I missing something here? :confusedshrug: AD forced a trade to the Lakers, just like Kareem did in 1975. Haters really need to stop crying.

[MaxPlayer]

LeBron already lost the chance to be GOAT in 2007 when he was swept by spurs, since 100% winning percentage in NBA finals is a necessary(but not sufficient) condition for GOAT. So it doesn’t matter what he would do after 2007, his ceiling would be #2 however he tried. Collusion did move him into borderline top 5, so it helped his legacy.

So you're saying that if he got swept in Round 1 (like Jordan did in his age 22 season) rather than winning a conference title, it would have actually ENHANCED his goat resume?

Please tell me I'm misinterpreting your post, because if not that's a fukking retard-level take.

[MaxPlayer]

I thought Lebron fulfilled the terms of all his contracts? He just has exercised his rights as a free agent like KD, Kyrie, and Kawhi. Am I missing something here? :confusedshrug: AD forced a trade to the Lakers, just like Kareem did in 1975. Haters really need to stop crying.

Didn't Kawhi pout and demand a trade because the Spurs didn't baby his injured thigh enough?

[HoopsNY]

going from 18 ppg to 23 ppg is not uncommon when field goal attempts increase from 14 fga to 18 fga. Lakers Ingraham had 1.8 3pa per game, Pelicans ingraham had 6.2 3pa. as field goal attempts go up from #2 option to #1, naturally so do points. his efficiency stayed relatively the same. but most importantly the Pelicans record went down with his addition, the trade for ingraham lonzo and hart made Pelicans worse

In all fairness, Ingram improved in his advanced metrics while averaging not only more points but also rebounds, assists, and steals. His BPM swung from negative into positive while his WS/48 doubled.

[NBAGOAT]

In all fairness, Ingram improved in his advanced metrics while averaging not only more points but also rebounds, assists, and steals. His BPM swung from negative into positive while his WS/48 doubled.

He completely revamped his shooting form. It’s crazy how quickly and how much he improved there.

[eliteballer]

Anyone know?

[3ba11]

Anyone know?


Assuming he was willing to make some adjustments to his game that would allow a better brand of basketball, the Cavs would've won a string of championships in a row starting in 2011.

The 2011 Cavs would've been the league favorite again for the 3rd year in a row - they would've certainly added another good player just like they did in 09 and 10', while also having the organic chemistry and reputed defense necessary to beat the Mavs easily.

Ultimately, the 2009 and 2010 teams had better-ranked defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls and far more scoring options, so despite their growing pains in those years, they were going to break through just like the Bulls did.. But Lebron just folded under the pressure and bounced prematurely.. he didn't want to make the adjustments to his game that were needed to win organically (adjust to teammates, develop better ball-movement strategy, etc)

[eliteballer]

Assuming he was willing to make some adjustments to his game that would allow a better brand of basketball, the Cavs would've won a string of championships in a row starting in 2011.

The 2011 Cavs would've been the league favorite again for the 3rd year in a row - they would've certainly added another good player just like they did in 09 and 10', while also having the organic chemistry and reputed defense necessary to beat the Mavs easily.

Ultimately, the 2009 and 2010 teams had better-ranked defenses than the 1st three-peat Bulls and far more scoring options, so despite their growing pains in those years, they were going to break through just like the Bulls did.. But Lebron just folded under the pressure and bounced prematurely.. he didn't want to make the adjustments to his game that were needed to win organically (adjust to teammates, develop better ball-movement strategy, etc)

:roll: a string of championships He couldn’t beat Dallas with wade and bosh but he’s going to do it with Cleveland

[3ba11]

:roll: a string of championships He couldn’t beat Dallas with wade and bosh but he’s going to do it with Cleveland


The only reason the Heat lost to the Mavs was because Lebron lacked the skill to fit with teammates because he never finished learning that in Cleveland..

If he stuck around in Cleveland, I believe he would've figured it out in 2011 because they would've been the league favorite for the 3rd year in a row and no one has lost that many times in a row as the league favorite - heck, no one has ever lost 2 years in a row with 60-win 1 seeds (except Lebron), so I highly doubt Lebron would've lost in that scenario a 3rd time in a row..

He was on the cusp, but Clutch Sports polluted his brain.. It didn't cost him in life or anything, but it cost him in the perception of knowledgable fans.. He can't ever be goat because he never figured it out in Cleveland, which cost him in 2011 with the Heat... it was perfect karma (Dirk winning the organic ring that Lebron/Clutch thought was impossible)

[ShawkFactory]

Are we sure 3ball and Eliteballer are different people?

[And1AllDay]

https://64.media.tumblr.com/5bb5bfbb91345e05f123f2fb69c6d6f3/tumblr_mshajciBbO1qb4op4o4_250.gifv

[Spurs m8]

He doesn't even have any complete real ones WITH collusion.

So not a chance

[kennygriffin]

I already made a thread about this. of course not


2012 thunder win
2013 spurs win
2016 warriors win
2020 nuggets win

no way lebron and one other lesser sidekick could ever beat these teams

[Mr.GOAT2408]

He'd have zero rings max if he didn't collude

He's just not that good at basketball

[And1AllDay]

He'd have zero rings max if he didn't collude

He's just not that good at basketball

kenny i thought you said you were gone :oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

Are we sure 3ball and Eliteballer are different people?

interesting

both incapable of basic communication that doesnt appear autistic

both love lakers (3ball is a secret kobe fan)

both obsessed with leking

hmmmmmmmmmmm got me thinkin now :oldlol:

[Axe]

Are we sure 3ball and Eliteballer are different people?
Does 3ball spam dots or smileys in his own thread at the sneaker subforum? I don't think so. Go ahead and take a look for yourself if you don't want to believe me. :oldlol:

[Gileraracer]

Of course not. Lebron without a superteam = useless

[Drusillalias]

Cry more, it's so sad

[Drusillalias]

Cry more, it's so sad

With summer coming to an end, now is the time to make your radio listening experience a little more enjoyable.radioonlineluisteren.nl (https://radioonlineluisteren.nl/)

[kawhileonard2]

0 rings and 2 bronze medals.:oldlol:

[8Ball]

Lebron never colluded. Ever.

This is group therapy for bron haters.

Bron has 4 rings.

Deal with it.

[Spurs m8]

Lebron never colluded. Ever.

This is group therapy for bron haters.

Bron has 4 rings.

Deal with it.

The real estate agent in you is really coming out....full of shit

A blatant liar

[8Ball]

The real estate agent in you is really coming out....full of shit

A blatant liar


Lebron never colluded. There is no proof. No investigation. Nothing.


The only one making things up is you. Full of shit. Blatant liar.

[8Ball]

The only one that we know colluded is your favorite player Kawhi.


He went directly to Paul George and demanded PG ask for a trade. That was straight from Kawhi. Collusion. Your favorite player you made your account with.


Kawhi humiliated your spurs franchise. Good.

[000]

He would've had more rings if he didn't collude. He realised he was building up an organic brand to steamroll the league and thought "that's not fair to everyone else. I'll abandon that and start all over again." Unfortunately he still won quickly anyway.

[Rick Bottom]

Collusion how? Besides that Miami debacle, what're you talking about?

Also, it's not like he's rolling in championships. He's won 3 rings, and the last one was like 6 yrs ago or something lol

[bullettooth]

Would LeBron have any rings without collusion?

No.

[Spurs m8]

Collusion how? Besides that Miami debacle, what're you talking about?

Also, it's not like he's rolling in championships. He's won 3 rings, and the last one was like 6 yrs ago or something lol

Well apart from the shameless Miami one, one of the main reasons he returned to Cleveland was Kyrie had just become an all star (and won all star mvp), so was one of the most promising side kicks in the league.

Then he also got Love, who was an all star at that point as well, until Bron gave him the Bosh treatment.

It was collusion.

[SaintzFury13]

Well apart from the shameless Miami one, one of the main reasons he returned to Cleveland was Kyrie had just become an all star (and won all star mvp), so was one of the most promising side kicks in the league.

Then he also got Love, who was an all star at that point as well, until Bron gave him the Bosh treatment.

It was collusion.

That isn’t collusion at all. He joined a team that had a certain player in it, and the Cavaliers made a trade to get Kevin Love into Cleveland. How is that collusion?

I don’t know what 8ball is talking about in regards to what happened in Miami not being collusion, but what happened in Cleveland was very clearly not collusion. And Kevin didn’t even play for most of the finals series that they ended up winning so it doesn’t even matter.

[Spurs m8]

It was collusion

Hey Kyrie, now we've built up enough assets and you're developed enough, I'll come back and we'll trade the assets for another all star...sick

[8Ball]

It was collusion

Hey Kyrie, now we've built up enough assets and you're developed enough, I'll come back and we'll trade the assets for another all star...sick

That isn't collusion.

What Kawhi did was collusion. Go directly to a player under contract and telling that player to request a trade to your team while PG wasn't looking to leave.


I love what Kawhi did to your Spurs team.

[8Ball]

That isn’t collusion at all. He joined a team that had a certain player in it, and the Cavaliers made a trade to get Kevin Love into Cleveland. How is that collusion?

I don’t know what 8ball is talking about in regards to what happened in Miami not being collusion, but what happened in Cleveland was very clearly not collusion. And Kevin didn’t even play for most of the finals series that they ended up winning so it doesn’t even matter.


What happened in Miami was 3 players without a contract deciding to come together.


Like Kyrie and Durant in free agency picking up the phone and deciding to go to Brooklyn. Not collusion.


James Harden colluded to go to the Nets.

[steezy]

Some of yall sad. Lebron would've won 1-2 regardless, just too much talent for him not to win one at some point. Less than he has now? Probably. No rings at all? You're an idiot.

[Gileraracer]

Some of yall sad. Lebron would've won 1-2 regardless, just too much talent for him not to win one at some point. Less than he has now? Probably. No rings at all? You're an idiot.

No ring without colluding, thats a faxxx

[SaintzFury13]

No ring without colluding, thats a faxxx

No it's not. He literally has two championship rings that prove this statement wrong. Don't be a retard.

[SaintzFury13]

It was collusion

Hey Kyrie, now we've built up enough assets and you're developed enough, I'll come back and we'll trade the assets for another all star...sick

That's not collusion.

[2much_knowledge]

Thats a no brainer. The answer is Karl Malone 2.0