LeBron haters, why isn't LeBron your favorite player?

[Micku]

Just a genuine question. No hate or anything. But why isn't he your favorite player?

Is it cause he isn't on your team? You don't like how he plays? Cuz of the fans? Some other personal reason?

For me, even though I'm not a LeBron hater, I'm not the biggest fan. I'm indifferent. I don't like the style of play. He has a inconsistent shooting form and a inconsistent shot. Very streaky. Like almost the definition of a rhythm shooter. He holds the ball for too long at times, but it worked out for him. His footwork isn't great, but it's not bad at all. I do like his shot selection. Like he knows himself if he can make the shot or he feels like he can make it.

But mostly, his game is just putting his head down and doing a layup in terms of scoring. He is so big, strong, quick and smart that it's hard as hell to guard. The best thing to watch about him is the passing game for me. I'm sucker for great passers and playmakers.

Imo, he's more like an athletic freak of nature than a skillful freak. Like if his skills was on par with his athleticism, he'll shoot like KD, have the footwork of Hakeem, more moves than Mchale, move like Curry off the ball, more moves to create space than Kobe and MJ.

He doesn't have those skills as mastered, so it's hard learning from him trying to copy his moves to translate to actual b-ball because he doesn't have that many moves you can copy. At least not to me. I suppose it's different depending on your body type. But I feel like everyone could learn the Mchale moves, but if you have length with your arms, you'll be more effective. The stupid travel stepback thing that Harden does. The Dirk kick. MJ up and under moves and shoulder fakes. Hakeem dreamshake and spin moves. And the shooting form of Klay Thompson. But you gott'a do what works for you.

Not say LeBron don't have any skills or any moves. He borrow some too. For a minute, he borrowed the Dirk knee fadeaway. He trained with Hakeem and he is still doing some his moves in the post that anyone could do, but it's better if you are athletic. He sometimes do D-Wade's unique euro step thing, where he would pull the ball over the defenders head to fake up while during a euro step. Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erOEOnrSRdU

But basically, I feel like I can learn more things from the other guys than I do with LeBron. And LeBron game is inconsistent when it comes to the aesthetic. Sometimes it looks smooth as butter, sometimes it looks clunky. What isn't ugly is his passing game and his ability to finish. All that said, I think he is an amazing player tho. And is wonderful to see live if you ever get a chance too.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I'm impartial to Bron's game although I like that he is great on the break, crisp with his passing and can take over games when employing his athleticism and strength.

Not always pretty BUT it works and he has stayed effective. Right now it feels like I am watching a grandmaster counterstratting all that comes his way. He wont amaze you with his shooting touch, but will always have his prints on a game.

[RRR3]

I'm impartial to Bron's game although I like that he is great on the break, crisp with his passing and can take over games by using his strength and athleticism.

Sure it isn't always pretty BUT it works and he has stayed effective. Right now it feels like I am watching a grandmaster counterstratting all that comes his way. He wont amaze you with his shooting touch, but will always have his prints on a game.
He always has those stretches where he can’t miss jumpers though. Those are so fun.

[Shooter]

He is the ultimate counter guy. Like Kuniva said above, he is the grandmaster counterstratting.

If you do X, he counters with Y. If you do Y, he counters with X. He has no weakness that can be exploited which is the reason why he is the most consistent player of all time.

[Bronbron23]

I woukd say im a bron hater. I do like bothering his stans though. Bron stans in general tend to be goofy as f*ck. He's not my favorite player mainly because his game scoring wise just isn't sexy. He probably has one of the ugliest games for an atg that I've ever seen and his stans are so bad at basketball they dont even know it.

[RRR3]

I woukd say im a bron hater. I do like bothering his stans though. Bron stans in general tend to be goofy as f*ck. He's not my favorite player mainly because his game scoring wise just isn't sexy. He probably has one of the ugliest games for an atg that I've ever seen and his stans are so bad at basketball they dont even know it.
That must be why you named your account after him :yaohappy:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He always has those stretches where he can’t miss jumpers though. Those are so fun.

No doubt.

A big reason I think 2014 is one of his best years. Bron's jumper was on ALL YEAR, which meant you literally couldn't guard him. He's been a maestro since his 3rd title though.

[RRR3]

No doubt.

A big reason I think 2014 is one of his best years. Bron's jumper was on ALL YEAR, which meant you literally couldn't guard him. He's been a maestro since his 3rd title though.
In the 2014 playoffs he averaged 27.4 PPG on 17.0 shots (66.8 TS%) :biggums:

Also the year he had that 61 point 8 3 game

[Spurs m8]

Long story short - lack of integrity, ego through the roof, manufactured, game isn't overly entertaining, walking cringefest, flat out wanker

[Cyrus334]

I hate his fanboys more than I hate him honestly.

They're the most annoying, delusional, obsessive, and overbearing fans of a player I've ever seen barring Kobe fans.

The amount of disrespect they show to the older generation in an effort to prop up Lebron is insane. If you listened to them, they'd make you think the 90's was the worst era of basketball and everyone outside Jordan was trash and the reason why he won 6 titles. They think just because there were no super teams that it was a weak era with no competition.

[fsvr54]

I hate his fanboys more than I hate him honestly.

They're the most annoying, delusional, obsessive, and overbearing fans of a player I've ever seen barring Kobe fans.

The amount of disrespect they show to the older generation in an effort to prop up Lebron is insane. If you listened to them, they'd make you think the 90's was the worst era of basketball and everyone outside Jordan was trash and the reason why he won 6 titles. They think just because there were no super teams that it was a weak era with no competition.

This covers it for me. Tired of his legions of fanboys

[Spurs m8]

I hate his fanboys more than I hate him honestly.

They're the most annoying, delusional, obsessive, and overbearing fans of a player I've ever seen barring Kobe fans.

The amount of disrespect they show to the older generation in an effort to prop up Lebron is insane. If you listened to them, they'd make you think the 90's was the worst era of basketball and everyone outside Jordan was trash and the reason why he won 6 titles. They think just because there were no super teams that it was a weak era with no competition.

Yeah there's actually a lot of this for me too

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

Im a Laker fan and grew up watching Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott, Thompson but was very young, under 10yrs old. Then the next era of Van Excel, Ceballos, Eddie Jones, Eldin Cambell(sorry if spell names wrong) and of course the Kobe, Shaq era ect ect.

I wouldnt hate but dislike/against any stars who would go up against my team, Lakers. I remember not liking AI, Vince Carter, TMac, Carmelo, and Lebron because their talented and is a threat to my team whenever they play. Or wouldnt want them to do better then Kobe whether its a game or stats(league leader in points, ect).

Since Lebron is a Laker now of course I root for him and realize how great of a player he is after watching him night in night out. His style doesnt come close to Kobe/MJ/TMac but he is a WINNER(10 FINALS in 11 Year? Krazy).

[NBAGOAT]

I am a fan for sure but he can be passive aggressive with some diva-ish behavior behind the scenes and overly corny social media stuff. Still great personality/attitude for a star but there are better.

Guys like Duncan/dirk are kind of flawless as teammates and personalities it’s really hard to hate. Dirk even told Cuban if you have to trade me to get Kobe, do it. Thts how loyal he was to the mavs.

Ofc you wish he shoot better but I think bron made a trade off for how he uses his time and it’s hard for muscular guys to be elite shooters. Brons focused more on keeping his body healthy than pretty much every star in history and it’s paid dividends. Yea you’re not going develop skills as well as Kobe when you sleep 12 hrs a day compared to Kobe’s 4. FYI Federer sleeps 12 too so there’s something to sleeping a lot

[Micku]

He is the ultimate counter guy. Like Kuniva said above, he is the grandmaster counterstratting.

If you do X, he counters with Y. If you do Y, he counters with X. He has no weakness that can be exploited which is the reason why he is the most consistent player of all time.

I actually don't think he has a bunch of counter moves. Like he's not a Kobe, MJ, Bird or Hakeem with it. He doesn't have multiple moves to and ways to score to counter attack you. He isn't KD, and is dangerous everywhere on floor. His FT shooting isn't great, but it's okay. Like KD if he isn't shooting well, could still get to the line is shooting in the 80s% or the 90s%. I think he is really limited in his ways of scoring unless his jumper is on then he is the best player ever. I think his passing really helps out the team and he picks his spots really well. And he is probably the best finisher of a perimeter player I seen.

It's like, he major way of scoring, and that's in the paint. He drives and gets fouled or get a rebound for a put back. But he shooting is so inconsistent, that he hardly scores there.

That's partly why I think Miami LeBron was my favorite. He was solid in the midrange game and solid at the 3pt line. And he did more stuff in the post. Cavs 2018 LeBron was similar, but without the D.

But most of the time, the way he scores isn't as versatile as other great perimeter players. It's just he's smart in when he choose to attack. And he's so athletic that ppl can't stop him.

It's just it's pretty ugly watch tho in comparison to the other greats to me. The finesse isn't there. He doesn't need the finesse obviously. But I feel like it's no coincidence when you see LeBron being passive or how he doesn't score for some stretches. They gave him the jumpshot, and he doesn't take it.

He does have different styles of playing. So, he could be the playermaker on the team. He could try to get rebounds. Try to defend the best player. He just doesn't have multiple of ways of scoring. At least not with volume. He just so smart to know when he has opening to do what he does best.

[lxlHoTsAuSelxl]

Its not so much as you say counters. Lebron is big, athletic, can drive, finish at the rim, pass, his IQ, rebound, shoot from outside(ok he lacks perimeter shooting and ft's). If you take away or limit one of these from him, he will beat you with another skill, like making the right pass/play that will get him a assist or a pass that becomes a pass which leads to a bucket. Dude just knows where the ball should go or who shpuld he doing what. I keep repeating this but i will again, 10 finals in 11 years.

There was a interview with him and Kobe sitting next to each other. He told Kobe to his face, something along the lines, "you have great foot work ********, yea I watch you, I study your moves ha ha ha". Kobe's my fav player and for him to say that to his face, RESPEK.

[3ball]

I'm impartial to Bron's game although I like that he is great on the break, crisp with his passing and can take over games when employing his athleticism and strength.

Not always pretty BUT it works and he has stayed effective. Right now it feels like I am watching a grandmaster counterstratting all that comes his way. He wont amaze you with his shooting touch, but will always have his prints on a game.

who cares if your skillset is good at winning conference finals

if your skillset yields a brand that rarely wins Finals, then you have lower long-run championship expectation compared to other greats, aka inferior player

and that's lebron

lebron lowers his team's long run championship expectation compared to other greats by preventing the best brand of ball that is needed to consistently win on the championship level (ball movement)..

other great players have skillsets that employ ball movement, so they're good at winning Finals, while lebron's ball-dominance isn't good at winning Finals, thus lowering his team's championship expectation..

ultimately, it's a skill deficit - lebron isn't an elite shooter from anywhere on the floor and can't play off-ball, which limits brand of ball and therefore team ceiling

carry on, but he's a fraud

[insidious301]

I am a fan for sure but he can be passive aggressive with some diva-ish behavior behind the scenes and overly corny social media stuff. Still great personality/attitude for a star but there are better.

Guys like Duncan/dirk are kind of flawless as teammates and personalities it’s really hard to hate. Dirk even told Cuban if you have to trade me to get Kobe, do it. Thts how loyal he was to the mavs.

Ofc you wish he shoot better but I think bron made a trade off for how he uses his time and it’s hard for muscular guys to be elite shooters. Brons focused more on keeping his body healthy than pretty much every star in history and it’s paid dividends. Yea you’re not going develop skills as well as Kobe when you sleep 12 hrs a day compared to Kobe’s 4. FYI Federer sleeps 12 too so there’s something to sleeping a lot

You might be onto something, NBAGOAT. Not that getting enough sleep will make you a Hall of Famer however recovery is important. Along with his unique build, longer periods of sleep could be anothe reason LeBron has maintained great longevity.


who cares if your skillset is good at winning conference finals

if your skillset yields a brand that rarely wins Finals, then you have lower long-run championship expectation compared to other greats, aka inferior player

and that's lebron

lebron lowers his team's long run championship expectation compared to other greats by preventing the best brand of ball that is needed to consistently win on the championship level (ball movement)..

other great players have skillsets that employ ball movement, so they're good at winning Finals, while lebron's ball-dominance isn't good at winning Finals, thus lowering his team's championship expectation..

ultimately, it's a skill deficit - lebron isn't an elite shooter from anywhere on the floor and can't play off-ball, which limits brand of ball and therefore team ceiling

carry on, but he's a fraud

This is all wrong. Plus, LeBron is tied with the second most FMVPs. Winning conference finals is a byproduct to the overall success.

[3ball]

You might be onto something, NBAGOAT. Not that getting enough sleep will make you a Hall of Famer however recovery is important. Along with his unique build, longer periods of sleep could be anothe reason LeBron has maintained great longevity.



This is all wrong. Plus, LeBron is tied with the second most FMVPs. Winning conference finals is a byproduct to the overall success.

having a skillset that yields a Finals-winning brand gives many players a better long-run championship expectation than lebron, who can't win most Finals due to ball-dominance

lower long-run championship expectation = inferior player... 4/10 = weak long run championship expectation... 4/10 is horrible and literally impossible for the GOAT.. the greatest ever can't be bad at winning on the championship level

[insidious301]

having a skillset that yields a Finals-winning brand gives many players a better long-run championship expectation than lebron, who can't win most Finals due to ball-dominance

lower long-run championship expectation = inferior player... 4/10 = weak long run championship expectation... 4/10 is horrible and literally impossible for the GOAT.. the greatest ever can't be bad at winning on the championship level

LeBron's skillset is documented by his overall play and impact. We know that in impact, most advanced stats all place him at the mountain top. Along with that is winning and when it comes to team success, LeBron has the second most FMVPs all time. Your simple reasoning doesn't match the facts.

[Shooter]

I actually don't think he has a bunch of counter moves. Like he's not a Kobe, MJ, Bird or Hakeem with it. He doesn't have multiple moves to and ways to score to counter attack you. He isn't KD, and is dangerous everywhere on floor. His FT shooting isn't great, but it's okay. Like KD if he isn't shooting well, could still get to the line is shooting in the 80s% or the 90s%. I think he is really limited in his ways of scoring unless his jumper is on then he is the best player ever. I think his passing really helps out the team and he picks his spots really well. And he is probably the best finisher of a perimeter player I seen.

It's like, he major way of scoring, and that's in the paint. He drives and gets fouled or get a rebound for a put back. But he shooting is so inconsistent, that he hardly scores there.

That's partly why I think Miami LeBron was my favorite. He was solid in the midrange game and solid at the 3pt line. And he did more stuff in the post. Cavs 2018 LeBron was similar, but without the D.

But most of the time, the way he scores isn't as versatile as other great perimeter players. It's just he's smart in when he choose to attack. And he's so athletic that ppl can't stop him.

It's just it's pretty ugly watch tho in comparison to the other greats to me. The finesse isn't there. He doesn't need the finesse obviously. But I feel like it's no coincidence when you see LeBron being passive or how he doesn't score for some stretches. They gave him the jumpshot, and he doesn't take it.

He does have different styles of playing. So, he could be the playermaker on the team. He could try to get rebounds. Try to defend the best player. He just doesn't have multiple of ways of scoring. At least not with volume. He just so smart to know when he has opening to do what he does best.

Limited ways to score
Literally the most playoff scoring of all time

:biggums:

[k0kakw0rld]

We get it! His game isn't pretty. Basketball isn't a matter who's game is prettier than the other. T-Mac's game was pure, Melo the same but they did not bring Ws or RINGs did they? :confusedshrug:

The man is literally the greatest passer of all time.
Averaging 27 / 7 / 7 for a career
Smartest basketball player alive
Highest IQ in basketball

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

So you did not like Shaq because he was too strong and was a bully to most people? :biggums:

[red1]

low IQ.




case in point:




Long story short - lack of integrity, ego through the roof, manufactured, game isn't overly entertaining, walking cringefest, flat out wanker

[MaxPlayer]

I'm a huge LeBron fan, so any criticism I might have is just nitpicking.

However, one frustration I have with him is the contrast between the way he plays in half-court versus transition. On the break, or when there's a breakdown in the defense, he's an absolute wizard at finishing the play or finding the open man. And not only doing so, but doing it with instinctively and with flair.

But then when running to slowdown offense in the half-court, he sometimes looks clunky and over-mechanical, like he's a completely different player. It's almost like he's overthinking the offense, like a golfer overthinking his swing, rather than just letting the game come naturally to him like he does in transition.

I get the strategy behind the slowdown. Especially as he gets older, he still needs to play major minutes, so he has to be smart about it. But that said, I don't feel that he's taking advantage of all of his offensive ability in the half-court.

[8Ball]

LeBron is always looking for the best shot for him or his team.

That's why he takes his time in half court. A true pg doing his job.

[Mr. Woke]

I am a LeBron fan. Flawless resume, great stats, likable personality, is not afraid to speak his mind, etc.

What more could I want?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

who cares if your skillset is good at winning conference finals

if your skillset yields a brand that rarely wins Finals, then you have lower long-run championship expectation compared to other greats, aka inferior player

and that's lebron

lebron lowers his team's long run championship expectation compared to other greats by preventing the best brand of ball that is needed to consistently win on the championship level (ball movement)..

other great players have skillsets that employ ball movement, so they're good at winning Finals, while lebron's ball-dominance isn't good at winning Finals, thus lowering his team's championship expectation..

ultimately, it's a skill deficit - lebron isn't an elite shooter from anywhere on the floor and can't play off-ball, which limits brand of ball and therefore team ceiling

carry on, but he's a fraud

I buried this narrative already.

Here, educate yourself: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?485536-Lebron-James-is-irrelevant-as-a-basketball-player-now&p=14145358&viewfull=1#post14145358

[Micku]

We get it! His game isn't pretty. Basketball isn't a matter who's game is prettier than the other. T-Mac's game was pure, Melo the same but they did not bring Ws or RINGs did they? :confusedshrug:

The man is literally the greatest passer of all time.
Averaging 27 / 7 / 7 for a career
Smartest basketball player alive
Highest IQ in basketball

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

So you did not like Shaq because he was too strong and was a bully to most people? :biggums:

Shaq had some good footwork and some good post moves in addition to be a bully in the post. Like he had counter moves for the defender. Deceptively quick too for a guy of his size, so it was fun to watch. He wasn't no Hakeem or Mchale, but that footwork, his touch around the basket, and his strength made him nearly impossible to guard.

LeBron is solid, but not as good as Shaq with his footwork imo.

LeBron game is pretty awkward in comparison other greats. It don't matter in the end cuz he gets the ball to the hole. I think he is just a freak of nature with one of the best passing skills in NBA history and b-ball IQ is off the charts. But that's why he isn't fave player to watch cuz the game is awkward or inconsisent af, although it's cool to watch him regardless. He does multiple things on the floor.

[Spurs m8]

I am a LeBron fan. Flawless resume, great stats, likable personality, is not afraid to speak his mind, etc.

What more could I want?

Flawless resume? 3-9

Likable personality.....yeah, if you like egotistical douchebags.
There's nothing interesting about his personality, he is as boring as they come.

Empty stats- check.

Not afraid to speak his mind...hows China?

This post is hilarious

[Bronbron23]

That must be why you named your account after him :yaohappy:

Its just a name and i actually like him hes just nit my favorite player. I only mess with his stans because they're idiots.

[Mr. Woke]

Flawless resume? 3-9

Likable personality.....yeah, if you like egotistical douchebags.
There's nothing interesting about his personality, he is as boring as they come.

Empty stats- check.

Not afraid to speak his mind...hows China?

This post is hilarious

I am glad that I don't think like you.

Your post is delusional and hilarious.

[3ball]

I am glad that I don't think like you.

Your post is delusional and hilarious.


the goat would never:


2011 - have a goat choke

2007 - get Larry Hughes numbers in the Finals

2008 - get Larry Hughes numbers against the champs again (ECSF vs Celts... 26 on 35%)

2010 - quit

2013 - get successfully exploited for a broke jumpshot (16 on 39% thru 3 games; 23 on 43 thru 6; net negative for series)

2014 - fail to 3-peat; let some kid have a coming out party on him; get taught a ball movement lesson by old dudes; lose by more than anyone else ever has

2015 - play exactly like Iverson offensively in the Finals, and Kukoc defensively

2005 - miss the playoffs with the East all-star center on his team

2019 - butcher LA

2011-2018 - have a skillset so dependant on one kind of teammate (shooters), that he cedes the best brand of ball, the best offenses and best teams to other franchises (spurs/warriors/mavs, 3/9)

[3ball]

.
Checklist


[ x ] 2011 Playoffs - the goat choke in sports history; teammate led for entire playoffs

[ x ] 3/9... aka weak championship record... aka low team ceilings

[ x ] low ring count compared to the goat standard of modern era (3 vs 6)

[ x ] 4 playoff losses when expected to win

[ x ] perennial underdogs with super-teams from 2011 to 2017 - lost or was underdog for 6 of 7 years

[ x ] needed 2 star teammates acquired via team-hopping to win all rings

[ x ] 2007 NBA Finals - worst performance ever by #1 option in the Finals.. the 22-year old underperformed Magic and MJ at the same age - Magic won FMVP at 20; MJ set playoff scoring record at 23 (44 ppg and 63 point game)

[ x ] scored less than teammate/carried in 8 different playoff series

[ x ] no MVP's for 6 straight years in his prime (14-19'), and 1 less MVP than the goat standard of 3-pointer basketball

[ x ] 9 less scoring titles than the goat standard

[ x ] only 37% (https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-08-2019/eY2j3S.gif) on clutch shots in playoffs (10-27) and 0% in championship (0-8)

[ x ] only 5 years as elite defender and elite 2-way player (09-13')

[ x ] gave up 4 FMVP's to defensive assignment (3 different players including 2 role players)

[ x ] missed 2005 playoffs despite having the East 2-time all-star center on his team

[ x ] poor performances in many playoff series that were worse than MJ ever played (each series listed above in post #55 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13888078&postcount=55))

[ x ] teammates prevented 3-0 deficit in 2013 Finals while Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games and 23 on 43% thru 6; it was 2011 all over again until Ray Allen saved his career; net negative for series (heat lost with Lebron on floor)

[ x ] weak off-ball player - only elite on-ball, which doesn't fit with all player types or systems, thus lowering team ceiling, brand, and viability on the championship level, aka 3/9

[ x ] ball-dominant style turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop players/teams and requires ready-made stars acquired via collusion/cheating.. he simply avoided the career-losing fate of other ball-dominators by colluding for the extra talent this style needs to win

[ x ] marginalized many teammates including Hughes, Jamison, Bosh, Love, Ingram, Derrick Rose, IT, Rodney Hood, Crowder, and many more

[ x ] many skill weaknesses - not a pure shooter or scorer; no midrange; weak post-game; no off-ball; can't consistently rely on jumper for big games, making him very exploitable

[ x ] turnover prone - no playoff runs without 3+ turnovers

[ x ] suboptimal offensive style - he starts at SF but then shares PG duties with the PG - this creates a 2 point guard lineup that gives teammates less time and assists than they get in 1-PG lineups, thus causing low TEAM assists and a brand that struggles on the championship level, aka 3/9... this suboptimal style results from a SKILL DEFICIT where he can't get elite stats off-ball.

[ x ] the goat stat-padder - needed the highest time of possession/weakest ball movement ever to get good stats in 2015-2018 Finals - his teams are routinely massively out-assisted in the championship

[ x ] can't carry lottery casts to playoffs - missed playoffs 3 times with teams that were lottery the prior year (04', 05', 19') - aka couldn't drag lottery casts to low seeds/underdog matchups in 1st Round, and only made playoffs with high seeds, good teams, and easy 1st round matchups, thus inflating early playoff resume compared to other stars who were good enough to carry lottery casts to low seeds

[ x ] needed prime Pippen numbers or better from sidekick to win Finals (20/5/5 on 48% was worst sidekick performance in Finals)

[ x ] can't command double-teams due to weak jumper that rarely gets hot or requires getting the ball out of his hands; and his lack of off-ball game allows opponents to defend his long-dribble style, which is preferred over double-teaming and spurring ball-movement (Stan Van Gundy (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466601) and Kerr (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif) let him dribble away - they wanted the ball in his hands).. so his weak jumper and long-dribble style prevents double-teaming and allows teammates to be guarded straight-up and locked down, like the 2009 ECF where he lost as the favorite, or the 2015 Finals where a better team effort would've beaten Curry/Klay (who are otherwise losers in the Finals, 8-10 without KD)

[sdot_thadon]

I hate him because he makes me post long, irrational walls of hate text....

[Spurs m8]

I am glad that I don't think like you.

Your post is delusional and hilarious.

Yes, my post of literal facts is delusional.

A bron fan using the word delusional is as funny as his finals record.

Sorry i have integrity and see him as a coward

[sdot_thadon]

Nah I'd say he's on point, delusional, tainted, corrupted....whatever word you wanna use to explain the damage Lebron has done to your brain, stick a fork in ya...years ago.

[Atlantis]

There's nothing distinctive about his style of play.

[Spurs m8]

Nah I'd say he's on point, delusional, tainted, corrupted....whatever word you wanna use to explain the damage Lebron has done to your brain, stick a fork in ya...years ago.

Facts don't care about your feelings or bron stans feelings

[HoopsNY]

Why is the assumption that you're a hater if LeBron isn't your favorite player? Being critical of someone shouldn't automatically equate to being a hater.

[Spurs m8]

.
Checklist


[ x ] 2011 Playoffs - the goat choke in sports history; teammate led for entire playoffs

[ x ] 3/9... aka weak championship record... aka low team ceilings

[ x ] low ring count compared to the goat standard of modern era (3 vs 6)

[ x ] 4 playoff losses when expected to win

[ x ] perennial underdogs with super-teams from 2011 to 2017 - lost or was underdog for 6 of 7 years

[ x ] needed 2 star teammates acquired via team-hopping to win all rings

[ x ] 2007 NBA Finals - worst performance ever by #1 option in the Finals.. the 22-year old underperformed Magic and MJ at the same age - Magic won FMVP at 20; MJ set playoff scoring record at 23 (44 ppg and 63 point game)

[ x ] scored less than teammate/carried in 8 different playoff series

[ x ] no MVP's for 6 straight years in his prime (14-19'), and 1 less MVP than the goat standard of 3-pointer basketball

[ x ] 9 less scoring titles than the goat standard

[ x ] only 37% (https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-08-2019/eY2j3S.gif) on clutch shots in playoffs (10-27) and 0% in championship (0-8)

[ x ] only 5 years as elite defender and elite 2-way player (09-13')

[ x ] gave up 4 FMVP's to defensive assignment (3 different players including 2 role players)

[ x ] missed 2005 playoffs despite having the East 2-time all-star center on his team

[ x ] poor performances in many playoff series that were worse than MJ ever played (each series listed above in post #55 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13888078&postcount=55))

[ x ] teammates prevented 3-0 deficit in 2013 Finals while Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games and 23 on 43% thru 6; it was 2011 all over again until Ray Allen saved his career; net negative for series (heat lost with Lebron on floor)

[ x ] weak off-ball player - only elite on-ball, which doesn't fit with all player types or systems, thus lowering team ceiling, brand, and viability on the championship level, aka 3/9

[ x ] ball-dominant style turns teammates into spot-up shooters, which doesn't develop players/teams and requires ready-made stars acquired via collusion/cheating.. he simply avoided the career-losing fate of other ball-dominators by colluding for the extra talent this style needs to win

[ x ] marginalized many teammates including Hughes, Jamison, Bosh, Love, Ingram, Derrick Rose, IT, Rodney Hood, Crowder, and many more

[ x ] many skill weaknesses - not a pure shooter or scorer; no midrange; weak post-game; no off-ball; can't consistently rely on jumper for big games, making him very exploitable

[ x ] turnover prone - no playoff runs without 3+ turnovers

[ x ] suboptimal offensive style - he starts at SF but then shares PG duties with the PG - this creates a 2 point guard lineup that gives teammates less time and assists than they get in 1-PG lineups, thus causing low TEAM assists and a brand that struggles on the championship level, aka 3/9... this suboptimal style results from a SKILL DEFICIT where he can't get elite stats off-ball.

[ x ] the goat stat-padder - needed the highest time of possession/weakest ball movement ever to get good stats in 2015-2018 Finals - his teams are routinely massively out-assisted in the championship

[ x ] can't carry lottery casts to playoffs - missed playoffs 3 times with teams that were lottery the prior year (04', 05', 19') - aka couldn't drag lottery casts to low seeds/underdog matchups in 1st Round, and only made playoffs with high seeds, good teams, and easy 1st round matchups, thus inflating early playoff resume compared to other stars who were good enough to carry lottery casts to low seeds

[ x ] needed prime Pippen numbers or better from sidekick to win Finals (20/5/5 on 48% was worst sidekick performance in Finals)

[ x ] can't command double-teams due to weak jumper that rarely gets hot or requires getting the ball out of his hands; and his lack of off-ball game allows opponents to defend his long-dribble style, which is preferred over double-teaming and spurring ball-movement (Stan Van Gundy (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466601) and Kerr (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif) let him dribble away - they wanted the ball in his hands).. so his weak jumper and long-dribble style prevents double-teaming and allows teammates to be guarded straight-up and locked down, like the 2009 ECF where he lost as the favorite, or the 2015 Finals where a better team effort would've beaten Curry/Klay (who are otherwise losers in the Finals, 8-10 without KD)

Jesus christ....someone get the bodybag out for the stans

[jmcwilliams]

Long story short - lack of integrity, ego through the roof, manufactured, game isn't overly entertaining, walking cringefest, flat out wanker

Im A Bron fan and have to admit that those are fair criticisms.

[Micku]

Why is the assumption that you're a hater if LeBron isn't your favorite player? Being critical of someone shouldn't automatically equate to being a hater.

I never said that. I'm talking to the haters. I'm not a LeBron hater myself tho. You can critical of LeBron even if you aren't a hater.

[Asukal]

Lebron is the most overrated basketball star I have ever seen. His fans are annoying, the media keeps on posting irrelevant stats about him, whenever he loses there's a mountain of excuses for him, and when he wins it's all him. He's not close to being the GOAT nor deserve 2nd GOAT status.

[sdot_thadon]

Lebron is the most overrated basketball star I have ever seen. His fans are annoying, the media keeps on posting irrelevant stats about him, whenever he loses there's a mountain of excuses for him, and when he wins it's all him. He's not close to being the GOAT nor deserve 2nd GOAT status.
:cry:

[Micku]

Just like today, right? His jumper is off. It's been off pretty much all playoffs.

His FT shooting is his FT shooting. He still shot a good percentage from the field, but I just think he lacks the versatility of scoring. He is just so unstoppable when it comes he gets drives to the basket. He is big, strong, and fast. There are times where his jumper is on, and that's when he is unstoppable. It just he seems to only takes 3s and lay ups. If he had the midrange or a few moves to create space around there, I feel like it would've been over.

Granted, he doesn't need it.

He had more ways to attack in Miami I feel, but almost ever since then, it's been the same.

[jmcwilliams]

Becasuse Lebron throws games when he doesnt get his way or feels disrespected. You see it in his body language. If he feels not appreciated or doesnt like the direction he checks out. You dont always see it is his stats, but you see it in his body language and the fact that he is not really there. I think him and Rondo dont get along and that there is a bit of A power struggle going on for who's team it is.

[jmcwilliams]

Just like today, right? His jumper is off. It's been off pretty much all playoffs.

His FT shooting is his FT shooting. He still shot a good percentage from the field, but I just think he lacks the versatility of scoring. He is just so unstoppable when it comes he gets drives to the basket. He is big, strong, and fast. There are times where his jumper is on, and that's when he is unstoppable. It just he seems to only takes 3s and lay ups. If he had the midrange or a few moves to create space around there, I feel like it would've been over.

Granted, he doesn't need it.

He had more ways to attack in Miami I feel, but almost ever since then, it's been the same.

Yea, where the hell did his Jumper go? I noticed that when he played for the cavs he played very littel defense, but made up for it in offense. He plays good defense now, but I think its a trade off in his greatness. He loses his rhythm on offense.

[Sportal]

I'm not a LeBron hater. I just don't understand sometimes why he can't just live up to the hype. I remember how unplayable he was that one year with Miami, and I don't understand why that wasn't built upon. Like I was watching today, and he's the superstar, the Lakers are down 7, all they need is a couple of good plays... And he pulls up from Curry range twice in I think, 3 possessions? And he's done this with 18seconds to make a much better play, and I sit there and think... For a player that talented, he kinda just half-asses it at times. There's no way Butler settles for a shit possession like that... When you want him to just leave it all out there, make the best plays, be the best player in perhaps the history of the game... My expectations fall short in that moment and it has quite often over the years watching LeBron.

[LAL]

I'm not a LeBron hater. I just don't understand sometimes why he can't just live up to the hype. I remember how unplayable he was that one year with Miami, and I don't understand why that wasn't built upon. Like I was watching today, and he's the superstar, the Lakers are down 7, all they need is a couple of good plays... And he pulls up from Curry range twice in I think, 3 possessions? And he's done this with 18seconds to make a much better play, and I sit there and think... For a player that talented, he kinda just half-asses it at times. There's no way Butler settles for a shit possession like that... When you want him to just leave it all out there, make the best plays, be the best player in perhaps the history of the game... My expectations fall short in that moment and it has quite often over the years watching LeBron.

Miami lebron reminds me of the ultimate warrior pre 92, looked pretty "normal" afterwards. Most wrestling fans know what happened.

[ScottieQuitting]

Becasuse Lebron throws games when he doesnt get his way or feels disrespected. You see it in his body language. If he feels not appreciated or doesnt like the direction he checks out. You dont always see it is his stats, but you see it in his body language and the fact that he is not really there. I think him and Rondo dont get along and that there is a bit of A power struggle going on for who's team it is.

Rondo is the best floor general, passer, and leader. By far. Everything else you said it’s totally spot on. What’s funny is, Magic Johnson was the one intelligent enough to bring in Rondo.

[TheGoatest]

Wow, this thread is full of such sad, pathetic losers. Imagine hating the unquestionably greatest player, LeBron James, just because he surpassed your favorite player.
Do you have to take it that personally?
Can't you just appreciate greatness and embrace the fact that your favorite player is not the GOAT anymore because LeBron surpassed him?

[HoopsNY]

I never said that. I'm talking to the haters. I'm not a LeBron hater myself tho. You can critical of LeBron even if you aren't a hater.

Okay, I misunderstood you then. I looked at the OP title and got confused. My bad.

[Mr. Woke]

Becasuse Lebron throws games when he doesnt get his way or feels disrespected. You see it in his body language. If he feels not appreciated or doesnt like the direction he checks out. You dont always see it is his stats, but you see it in his body language and the fact that he is not really there. I think him and Rondo dont get along and that there is a bit of A power struggle going on for who's team it is.

Nice conspiracy theory lol.

[3ball]

I'm not a LeBron hater. I just don't understand sometimes why he can't just live up to the hype. I remember how unplayable he was that one year with Miami, and I don't understand why that wasn't built upon. Like I was watching today, and he's the superstar, the Lakers are down 7, all they need is a couple of good plays... And he pulls up from Curry range twice in I think, 3 possessions? And he's done this with 18seconds to make a much better play, and I sit there and think... For a player that talented, he kinda just half-asses it at times. There's no way Butler settles for a shit possession like that... When you want him to just leave it all out there, make the best plays, be the best player in perhaps the history of the game... My expectations fall short in that moment and it has quite often over the years watching LeBron.

you should be aware of how tough it is to a shoot only threes and layups - lebron does a great job..

unfortunately, he ABSOLUTELY NEEDS a mid-range game, aka pure scoring repertoire, aka elite pull-up jumpshooting skill - that's why he can't take over or go on personal runs, thus disappointing his fans at times..

if an open lane or an open three isn't available, lebron kind of sucks - literally - his numbers are trash down the stretch when defenses take away his open threes and clog the lane.. he turns into a bumbling, stumbling turnover machine

[Herro Ball]

his fanboys is the number 1 reason

[Micku]

Bumping this cuz of the finals.

LeBron posted crazy numbers even at his age. Granted, it's a different era compared to previous eras. But I feel like it still counts for something. He is so athletic even at the age of 35 and it doesn't seem like he is slowing down. The longevity of this man is insane.

[NBAGOAT]

Bumping this cuz of the finals.

LeBron posted crazy numbers even at his age. Granted, it's a different era compared to previous eras. But I feel like it still counts for something. He is so athletic even at the age of 35 and it doesn't seem like he is slowing down. The longevity of this man is insane.

that time and money he spends on his body to have goat lvl longevity/durability likely is a reason his skills arent as polished as some other stars. everyone only has 24 hours in a day

[Micku]

that time and money he spends on his body to have goat lvl longevity/durability likely is a reason his skills arent as polished as some other stars. everyone only has 24 hours in a day

Yeah. I think you're right.

While I'm not a hater, I feel like he doesn't have skills of a Kobe/MJ. It's more pleasing to the eyes. It seems like he was developing them in Miami. He trained with Hakeem, did some post moves, and had a few pull up jumpers under his belt. It seems the most complete. Not was pretty as Kobe/MJ, but it still got the job done.

He doesn't even do those anymore after he left Miami. And all it's been is just drive to the basket or shoot the 3. But he's so good at it, that it doesn't even matter anymore. And he won two chips doing that style. Granted, in his Miami days in the playoffs, his jumper was off. But he still tried several things in the half court set compared to what he does now. It's really amazing to me how effective he is without those skillsets he gained in Miami.

Like he is legit the best drive and kick out player ever. And you're right. His focus on his body is probably the reason why his skills aren't as polish. But it's paid off for him.

[baudkarma]

I just don't find him to be terribly likeable. It takes more than just being a great player for an athlete to become one of my favorites. There has to be some aspect of his life or his personality that I can admire or relate to. With LeBron there's simply no connection.

[Vragrant]

I'm not a hater but no the biggest fan. Mainly because despite of his superlative passing I don't find him that entertaining. He is an explosive run/jump athlete, but lacks the MJ smoothness to his game. For all his raw athleticism he lacks the dexterity/flexibility/coordination that I like in players like the aforementioned MJ. Its like watching an NFL tight end dominate. A lot of people like that, just not my cup of tea.

[paksat]

mostly just the way he plays for me personally. His fans are irritating, but even 3ball can annoy the fck out of me so it's not that. I became extremely annoyed with him around 2009 or 2010 when I noticed that he was literally stiff arming and shoving people out of the way. The officials would just sit there and watch something that would get you in a fight in the street. Since it was lebronze though, he's above the law apparently.

all of his fans on here never acknowledge this fact really too, because they know it's very true. The guy has the green light to bend the rules as he pleases. It's nothing personal either because I can't stand the greek freak either for the very same reasons. Literally the exact same stuff word for word, just having the green light to do as he pleases. Although I do like him more than lebronze because for another thing:

he's fake and a total douchebag

from watching the world cup while professionals are trying to be professionals in miami. To his constant political bullshat like with china where he showed his true colors. To building his own team and then constantly throwing everyone under the bus for his inability to get buckets at will. It's just one thing after another with him, and it's especially maddening seeing him pout like a child to the officials when anyone touches him even tho he flops like a total b*tch ( another thing his fans refuse to even talk about, cuz it's so true ).

crab dribbling moron is basically a nice way of speaking of him honestly. The travels, the flops, the crying, the cowardly play.

is there something to like?