Daily reminder that Jordan is GOAT

[Spurs m8]

Is this what we do on here?

6 rings

6 fmvp

2 3peats

Higher averages than LeEmptyStats across the board.

A respected leader.

No collusion

daily reminder guys

[highwhey]

if you have to remind yourself of something on a daily basis, it's highly unlikely to be true or significant

[MrFonzworth]

1-9. Consensus is that LeBron is the new goat if he manages to seal the deal this year.

[Mr. Woke]

Good one lol.

[Proctor]

https://media.tenor.com/images/a2112909851a8ca01b8bfd4e73215588/tenor.gif

The truth isn't always comfortable

[1987_Lakers]

if you have to remind yourself of something on a daily basis, it's highly unlikely to be true or significant
Big facts.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AcclaimedGroundedAmericancrocodile-size_restricted.gif

[BigtimeNBAFan]

I know you are just an idiot troll, but lmao at "LeEmptyStats." Yeah the guy who is about to win his 4th title and has won more playoff games than anyone else in league history is clearly a guy who puts up empty stats. :facepalm

I'd wait until Luka has actually won something, anything, literally anything at all before you waste your life trolling the best player in the game. Unfortunately this is your life and it is pretty sad and pathetic.

[And1AllDay]

well this is awkward

https://i.postimg.cc/x12hpMjy/aa_records.png

[coin24]

Mj
Kobe


Libron

[light]

Is this what we do on here?

6 rings

6 fmvp

2 3peats

Higher averages than LeEmptyStats across the board.

A respected leader.

No collusion

daily reminder guys

Jordan was tiny, weak and can't shoot. His teammates didn't even like him.

In fact, no one likes him.

[Axe]

No pip?

[highwhey]

No pip?

No chip

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Water is wet.

Don't forget 10 scoring titles which is STILL a record.

[NBAGOAT]

kareem

[AlternativeAcc.]

OP has been watching ball for less than 5 years and grew up in Australia

That he means he has the basketball knowledge of a normal 8 year old American :oldlol:

I chuckle everytime this worthless nerd tries to make a basketball related post. Guy is so desperate to fit in, but sticks out like a sore thumb

[Shogon]

6 rings - true

6 fmvp - true

2 3peats - true

Higher averages than LeEmptyStats across the board. - false

A respected leader. - opinion

No collusion - opinion

[8Ball]

Is this what we do on here?

6 rings

6 fmvp

2 3peats

Higher averages than LeEmptyStats across the board.

A respected leader.

No collusion

daily reminder guys

Insecurity right here.

When is the next documentary coming out?

[And1AllDay]

OP has been watching ball for less than 5 years and grew up in Australia

That he means he has the basketball knowledge of a normal 8 year old American :oldlol:

I chuckle everytime this worthless nerd tries to make a basketball related post. Guy is so desperate to fit in, but sticks out like a sore thumb

:roll::oldlol:

[Mauzah]

If you guys can't tell that Spurs m8 clearly enjoys ****ing with you, I don't know what else to tell you other than Lebron fans are more glib than I originally thought.

Jordan is the GOAT and you guys still can't see the forest for the trees and will most likely never see the light.

Lebron is a great basketball player but he pales in comparison to MJ.

Keep celebrating mediocrity :banana::roll:

[Mr. Woke]

If you guys can't tell that Spurs m8 clearly enjoys ****ing with you, I don't know what else to tell you other than Lebron fans are more glib than I originally thought.

Jordan is the GOAT and you guys still can't see the forest for the trees and will most likely never see the light.

Lebron is a great basketball player but he pales in comparison to MJ.

Keep celebrating mediocrity :banana::roll:

Another Jordan Stan in shambles.

[red1]

OP doesnt even know anything about basketball so his opinion isnt worth anything. he hasnt even watched jordan play, this is really just another post about his favorite subject. lebron.

[8Ball]

If you guys can't tell that Spurs m8 clearly enjoys ****ing with you, I don't know what else to tell you other than Lebron fans are more glib than I originally thought.

Jordan is the GOAT and you guys still can't see the forest for the trees and will most likely never see the light.

Lebron is a great basketball player but he pales in comparison to MJ.

Keep celebrating mediocrity :banana::roll:

The Jordan documentary was like the battle of bulge in ww2.

Good job, good effort.

[8Ball]

Next year when LeBron wins number 5 he will have achieved more than the entire Spurs franchise.

[Mauzah]

Another Jordan Stan in shambles.

Another worthless post

[Mr. Woke]

Another worthless post

Another one.

[Wally450]

OP's stream in Australia is just getting to the 2017 Finals.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan may always be GOAT, but unfortunately for OP LeBron is gonna be considered a top 2-3 player by the vast majority of people

[Mauzah]

Jordan may always be GOAT, but unfortunately for OP LeBron is gonna be considered a top 2-3 player by the vast majority of people

Hey, look at that... a reasonable person

[dankok8]

Lebron's problem isn't the soon to be 4-6 record in the finals but that he clearly wasn't the best player on the player on the floor in three of them - 2007, 2011 and 2017. And in many others like 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018 and 2020 he was better but not far better than the next best performer. That leaves just two finals in which Lebron was far and away the best player on the floor which is 2013 and 2015.

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan may always be GOAT, but unfortunately for OP LeBron is gonna be considered a top 2-3 player by the vast majority of people

They would be fine if their construct of Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other player was accepted. It isn't LeBron being 2nd or 3rd that has them terrified. It's that LeBron is compared to Jordan, which implies they are on the same level. Moreover, LeBron is only adding to his accomplishments (for all we know LeBron could be a first team all-NBA type through age 38 like KAJ was) while Jordan has been frozen for 22 years. Their fear is when it is all said and done LeBron will surpass Jordan.

[RRR3]

Lebron's problem isn't the soon to be 4-6 record in the finals but that he clearly wasn't the best player on the player on the floor in three of them - 2007, 2011 and 2017. And in many others like 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018 and 2020 he was better but not far better than the next best performer. That leaves just two finals in which Lebron was far and away the best player on the floor which is 2013 and 2015.
No one was close to LeBron in 2012 and 2016 dafuq

[2ball]

LeBron is going to have his 4th ring soon. Plus all the major stat categories will be Bron’s. Op is passing his MJ jammies just thinking of this

[dbugz]

well this is awkward

https://i.postimg.cc/x12hpMjy/aa_records.png

with only 3 rings all with *.

That's actually fail comparison. Never ever use that argument again :roll:

[2ball]

with only 3 rings all with *.

That's actually fail comparison. Never ever use that argument again :roll:

Why does a Celtics fan stan MJ? Bird beat the shit out of MJ more times than not

[dankok8]

No one was close to LeBron in 2012 and 2016 dafuq

He was the best player in both of those finals but Durant and Kyrie were close to his level.

[SouBeachTalents]

He was the best player in both of those finals but Durant and Kyrie were close to his level.
Scoring wise sure, all around game? Not even close

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron's problem isn't the soon to be 4-6 record in the finals but that he clearly wasn't the best player on the player on the floor in three of them - 2007, 2011 and 2017. And in many others like 2012, 2014, 2016, 2018 and 2020 he was better but not far better than the next best performer. That leaves just two finals in which Lebron was far and away the best player on the floor which is 2013 and 2015.

Some of that stuff was out of Bron's hands ie. 2018, but you're right that he could've had more separation. Or just played better in the finals.

To his credit though LeBron has been VERY good post 2011.

The way I see it, this conversation doesn't get interesting until #5. 4 titles and 4FMVP's would net him #2 all-time, but a potential 5th is where people really begin to debate the two. As in picking between them would be a coin flip. By that point LeBron's longevity will be unearthly (he would be 36 playing at superstar level with possibly a 5th FMVP, whereas Mike retired at 35 after winning his 6th).

Mainstream media have the exception types like Nick Wright and Kendrick Perkins, but for the most part Jordan is argued as THAT guy. You will see a shift if LA wins it all again, next year.

[Roundball_Rock]

The way I see it, this conversation doesn't get interesting until #5. 4 titles and 4FMVP's would net him #2 all-time, but a potential 5th is where people [I]really/I] begin to debate the two. As in it almost being a coin flip. By that point LeBron's longevity will be unearthly (he would be 36 playing at superstar level with possibly a 5th FMVP whereas Mike retired at 35 after winning his 6th).

Probably in terms of the media conversation but the argument that will be made for LeBron over Jordan is already there. Even if he doesn't win additional rings, he will add to his resume and we know when he retires the debate will be had. He will crush Jordan in longevity, crush him statistically, his advocates can point to chips with 3 franchises and success in a variety of contexts (e.g., making the finals with 5 coaches), and they will argue MJ played in a weaker era like MJ fans do with KAJ/Wilt/Russell. Whether he has 4 or 5 or 6 doesn't change any of these components.

To me the MJ crowd has set themselves up for failure by obsessing over rings and that is where LeBron winning more rings becomes a factor in the debate. If LeBron gets to 6, and rings are the be all end all, LeBron would have to get the tiebreaker because those 6 rings would come via 12-13 finals (Jordan had 13 playoff trips in total). I am sure MJ fans will shift to MJ being a better player, as was the argument when Kobe was threatening to win #6 and perhaps even more, but it is harder to shift than to stick to the same argument. Jordan advocates should have always stuck to saying he was better as a player IMO.

LeBron likely won't get to 6 but it is within the realm of possibility. The Lakers certainly would be favored to win next year to get him to 5.

The media has a MJ bias for obvious reasons: these are people who mostly grew up watching MJ or covered MJ/his era early in their careers (e.g., Bayless or Wilbon types). Eventually a newer generation more biased towards LeBron will replace them. In other words, it is possible Jordan wins the debate when LeBron retires but LeBron wins it 10-15 years from now. Likely? No, but it is a plausible scenario.

[red1]

with only 3 rings all with *.

That's actually fail comparison. Never ever use that argument again :roll:

I think you mean 4* asterisk rings - quatro is coming.

[Bronbron23]

if you have to remind yourself of something on a daily basis, it's highly unlikely to be true or significant

Well i guess that excludes bron also then

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Probably in terms of the media conversation but the argument that will be made for LeBron over Jordan is already there. Even if he doesn't win additional rings, he will add to his resume and we know when he retires the debate will be had. He will crush Jordan in longevity, crush him statistically, his advocates can point to chips with 3 franchises and success in a variety of contexts (e.g., making the finals with 5 coaches), and they will argue MJ played in a weaker era like MJ fans do with KAJ/Wilt/Russell. Whether he has 4 or 5 or 6 doesn't change any of these components.

Disagree. Kareem also beats Jordan in longevity, but that debate doesn’t move the needle. Whether its fair is another conversation.

There are people out there who have Kareem GOAT, yourself included, but I am speaking about the majority here.

With regards to Lebron and Jordan statistically, that would depend on the measures you’re using. If the stats are catered to per game from the regular-season, playoffs and finals, well, then, there are many numbers still in Jordan's favor. Mike also bests Bron in a number of major advanced stats. Both in the regular-season and playoffs. So unless Bron plays at a level we haven't seen yet, it'll remain that way. Of course, there is also the 'eye test' favoring Jordan. That isn't necessarily an "objective" argument but I think its fairly accurate.

The "weaker era" argument just doesn't hold weight, and its mostly employed by trolls. We know the 90s are considered the MODERN era while still having employed the three point shot. Defenses were tougher out on the perimeter too. One quick glance at the rule book, and the different mandates couldn't be clearer. The trolls will always ignore that distinction though, and peddle their BS. People willing to educate themselves is more in line with the young and intellectually HONEST fans. We also know that team hopping and creating "super teams" weren't the norm then. LeBron made that popular which can also be used against him. Had he stuck with Cleveland the first go around, does he even get 4? Doubtful but no one really knows.


To me the MJ crowd has set themselves up for failure by obsessing over rings and that is where LeBron winning more rings becomes a factor in the debate. If LeBron gets to 6, and rings are the be all end all, LeBron would have to get the tiebreaker because those 6 rings would come via 12-13 finals (Jordan had 13 playoff trips in total). I am sure MJ fans will shift to MJ being a better player, as was the argument when Kobe was threatening to win #6 and perhaps even more, but it is harder to shift than to stick to the same argument. Jordan advocates should have always stuck to saying he was better as a player IMO.

Good point. Thankfully I don't go down that route. Its actually why 5 puts Bron in that conversation for me. And 5 is less than 6.... But with five, Bron would win the age debate handily. He would surpass 35 year old Mike with a 36 year old version STILL playing at an elite level. One could then argue the reason LeBron has "just" 5 is playing tougher finals comp. For example, Durant/Curry's Warriors.

The ring argument is a separator between 2 players ELITE on both ends. Not the SOLE measure, but still an important one. So when a person shouts "But Bill had more rings than Jordan!", I would then explain why Russell's offense limited. In fact, a number of Russell's teammates outperformed him on that end. By either outscoring or assisting him during their dynasty.

To me, that's a big reason Magic doesn't get the love other "MT Rushmore" players do. He was great on O although weak defensively.


LeBron likely won't get to 6 but it is within the realm of possibility. The Lakers certainly would be favored to win next year to get him to 5.

Agreed. I don't think he will net 6 either.

5 is something that you can definitely see though. With LA retooling, and all the FA's lining up to ring chase.


The media has a MJ bias for obvious reasons: these are people who mostly grew up watching MJ or covered MJ/his era early in their careers (e.g., Bayless or Wilbon types). Eventually a newer generation more biased towards LeBron will replace them. In other words, it is possible Jordan wins the debate when LeBron retires but LeBron wins it 10-15 years from now. Likely? No, but it is a plausible scenario.

Media bias is prevalent, sure, but I think it mainly speaks to MJ being a better player. Better: scorer, in the post, in-between, freethrow shooter, in the triple threat, and half-court when defenses slow down ie. the playoffs. Better man defender, better fundementals and intangibles. Just a better player flatout. I believe most media members recognize that.

Luckily we live in the social media era, where games and footage are now easily accessible. Myths being peddled against Mike wont be an easy feat.

[Walk on Water]

1-9. Consensus is that LeBron is the new goat if he manages to seal the deal this year.


What’s 1-9? I’ve seen it before and still don’t get it.

[Roundball_Rock]

Disagree. Kareem also beats Jordan in longevity, but that debate doesn’t move the needle. Whether its fair is another conversation.

He doesn't even get a hearing from the media due to era bias. LeBron will.


With regards to Lebron and Jordan statistically, that would depend on the measures you’re using. If the stats are catered to per game from the regular-season, playoffs and finals, well, then, there are many numbers still in Jordan's favor. Mike also bests Bron in a number of major advanced stats.

Agreed. What I meant was LeBron will crush him in cumulative stats and that will be used in the argument for him since it is GOAT not BOAT. The argument will be LeBron had the greater career and aggregate stats will be used. He will be something like 1st in scoring, 3rd in assists, also 10k boards. MJ is 5th in scoring and not a factor in APG or RPG.


The "weaker era" argument just doesn't hold weight, and its mostly employed by trolls.

Agreed--but it will be used. On ISH a lot of it is trolling but a lot of it is generational bias--the same way MJ fans dismiss KAJ or Wilt.


The ring argument is a separator between 2 players ELITE on both ends. Not the SOLE measure, but still an important one. So when a person shouts "But Bill had more rings than Jordan!", I would then explain why Russell's offense limited. In fact, a number of Russell's teammates outperformed him on that end. By either outscoring or assisting him during their dynasty.

My beef is it is a team achievement. If the Cavs are healthy in 15' or if the Warriors get hurt in 18' instead of 19' and LeBron's teams win those years does that make him different?


Agreed. I don't think he will net 6 either.

5 is something that you can definitely see though. With LA retooling, and all the FA's lining up to ring chase.

Yeah. If he gets to 6 it would likely be as the second option or as 1b at best. How long can he keep going like this?


Media bias is prevalent, sure, but I think it mainly speaks to MJ being a better player. Better: scorer, in the post, in-between, freethrow shooter, in the triple threat, and half-court when defenses slow down ie. the playoffs. Better man defender, better fundementals and intangibles. Just a better player flatout. I believe most media members recognize that.

That is why I have MJ>LeBron but the discussion in the media and among fans is almost exclusively about rings on the pro-MJ side. Not those legit things.

Where I think bias enters the equation is MJ is covered like he is their hero. He gets virtually no scrutiny like every other public figure does, down to small town mayors get. :oldlol: Jordan is discussed by even serious people like Simmons and Russilo as a childhood comic book hero.

[dankok8]

Some of that stuff was out of Bron's hands ie. 2018, but you're right that he could've had more separation. Or just played better in the finals.

To his credit though LeBron has been VERY good post 2011.

The way I see it, this conversation doesn't get interesting until #5. 4 titles and 4FMVP's would net him #2 all-time, but a potential 5th is where people really begin to debate the two. As in picking between them would be a coin flip. By that point LeBron's longevity will be unearthly (he would be 36 playing at superstar level with possibly a 5th FMVP, whereas Mike retired at 35 after winning his 6th).

Mainstream media have the exception types like Nick Wright and Kendrick Perkins, but for the most part Jordan is argued as THAT guy. You will see a shift if LA wins it all again, next year.

No doubt he has been good. Lebron is at this point a Mt. Rushmore player so top 4 ever with MJ, Kareem and Russell. But his GOAT case does have real weaknesses. At this point even his accomplishments... 4 rings isn't GOAT level when Jordan/Kareem have 6 and Russell has 11. If he wins more like you said, the perception can change but it's more or less likely that Davis will be the best player for rings that come after this season.


Scoring wise sure, all around game? Not even close

It was close in all those finals. Lebron was the best player but not by a big margin. Jordan was the best player in all six finals, five of them (except 1996) decisively so.

[Roundball_Rock]

It was close in all those finals. Lebron was the best player but not by a big margin. Jordan was the best player in all six finals, five of them (except 1996) decisively so.

True, but the qualifier is in 98' Pippen was the front-runner for FMVP before his back injury in Game 5 (Bulls were up 3-1 heading into 5) due to his wrecking the #1 Utah offense.

[Axe]

What’s 1-9? I’ve seen it before and still don’t get it.
Yikes :lol

[dankok8]

True, but the qualifier is in 98' Pippen was the front-runner for FMVP before his back injury in Game 5 (Bulls were up 3-1 heading into 5) due to his wrecking the #1 Utah offense.

Yea but then Utah won Game 5 and MJ closed it out with a great Game 6. And Pippen was a complete non-factor in those last two games.

[SouBeachTalents]

It was close in all those finals. Lebron was the best player but not by a big margin. Jordan was the best player in all six finals, five of them (except 1996) decisively so.
It's just kind of an arbitrary and pointless argument imo. LeBron played significantly better in the '12 & '16-18 Finals than he did in '13, so I don't see why he should get extra credit for '13 just because no other player matched his play

[dankok8]

It's just kind of an arbitrary and pointless argument imo. LeBron played significantly better in the '12 & '16-18 Finals than he did in '13, so I don't see why he should get extra credit for '13 just because no other player matched his play

Oh no it's not about credit. Your premise is sound. I just think it's an argument that will be used against him that he wasn't the dominant player in the majority of his finals. For me at least that's the key argument not the 4-6 which is a team record and means next to nothing without context.

Plus I definitely don't agree that Lebron was better in 2017 and 2018 Finals than in 2013 Finals. Maybe statistically but in 2013 Lebron carried a fairly weak roster (Wade was second in the postseason in scoring with 15.9 ppg) to a title and was an absolute monster down the stretch of the Spurs series. Averaged >30 ppg from Game 4-Game 7 IIRC and made huge plays down the stretch of a few games. The Splitter block, the huge 4th quarter run in Game 6, the Game 7 closeout J's. I think you can make a case it's his best finals actually because he really came up huge in the most important games. He even defended Parker and was key in slowing him down.

[SouBeachTalents]

Oh no it's not about credit. Your premise is sound. I just think it's an argument that will be used against him that he wasn't the dominant player in the majority of his finals. For me at least that's the key argument not the 4-6 which is a team record and means next to nothing without context.

Plus I definitely don't agree that Lebron was better in 2017 and 2018 Finals than in 2013 Finals. Maybe statistically but in 2013 Lebron carried a fairly weak roster (Wade was second in the postseason in scoring with 15.9 ppg) to a title and was an absolute monster down the stretch of the Spurs series. Averaged >30 ppg from Game 4-Game 7 IIRC and made huge plays down the stretch of a few games. The Splitter block, the huge 4th quarter run in Game 6, the Game 7 closeout J's. I think you can make a case it's his best finals actually because he really came up huge in the most important games. He even defended Parker and was key in slowing him down.
We just completely disagree about '13 bro :lol I was honestly not that impressed with LeBron in that series, and didn't even feel like he began playing to his regular capabilities until the 4th quarter of Game 6, where I completely agree he brought them back from the dead in Game 6 and had a phenomenal Game 7. Those first 5 games though, he really struggled scoring and was very inefficient, if Ray misses that 3 LeBron gets killed for his play in that series. Personally I'd rank 2012 & all 4 Warriors Finals ahead of that one

[Spurs m8]

LeBron is going to have his 4th ring soon. Plus all the major stat categories will be Bron’s. Op is passing his MJ jammies just thinking of this

Too bad longevity isn't what determines the GOAT

cute stats though

Amazing to think if he gets this ring he's still 2 behind..even after so many tries and collusions.

And thats not even taking into account asterisk rings.

Wow

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No doubt he has been good. Lebron is at this point a Mt. Rushmore player so top 4 ever with MJ, Kareem and Russell. But his GOAT case does have real weaknesses. At this point even his accomplishments... 4 rings isn't GOAT level when Jordan/Kareem have 6 and Russell has 11. If he wins more like you said, the perception can change but it's more or less likely that Davis will be the best player for rings that come after this season.

Well said.

I agree that Lebron would have to win at least 5 to entertain the Jordan discussion. When I say "5" that assumes Bron is still playing at an elite level.


He doesn't even get a hearing from the media due to era bias. LeBron will

Kareem clearly has Jordan beat in longevity and cumulative totals, but Mike is still WIDELY regarded "better". Or greater. Media hype is definitely a reason for that although Jordan's stats, rings as the man and SKILL all play factors. I could go more in-depth here, but what is your take?


Agreed. What I meant was LeBron will crush him in cumulative stats and that will be used in the argument for him since it is GOAT not BOAT. The argument will be LeBron had the greater career and aggregate stats will be used. He will be something like 1st in scoring, 3rd in assists, also 10k boards. MJ is 5th in scoring and not a factor in APG or RPG..

The thing is though Kareem has all that in his favor and he isn't argued as such. Not by many at least.

Bron already has Jordan beat in career points, rebounds and assist totals, but again, is rarely argued BOAT or GOAT. This is why I think he'll need to win another one next year to makeup for A) Jordan's superior per game numbers B) Jordan's skills C) other measures like "artistry" ie. the eye test and Jordan's feats like the 6 FMVPs. Its crazy too because right now Bron is the one active, and yet not getting that rep. A few media members who are on his payroll but definitely not the majority :lol


Agreed--but it will be used. On ISH a lot of it is trolling but a lot of it is generational bias--the same way MJ fans dismiss KAJ or Wilt.

It's going to be pretty hard to do so. Youtube would literally have to be shutdown.

Nearly all of Jordan's games from the 90s are available online. Every single playoff game from Jordan's career is available too. Can't say the same for Wilt or KAJ. The trolling against Mike will be easily negated.


My beef is it is a team achievement. If the Cavs are healthy in 15' or if the Warriors get hurt in 18' instead of 19' and LeBron's teams win those years does that make him different?

You're not wrong, but with everything equal BOTH teams had championship aspirations. You and I both know that injury talk is a slippery slope. Does Chicago beat Detroit in '90 if Pippen doesn't have a migraine? Or if Jordan doesn’t fall on his lower back in game 1? IIRC he had 26 in the first half of that game, became stiff and was still injured for game 2. They split a game there and Chicago probably could've taken that series in 6.

All that brings me back to what I mentioned earlier... Does Bron even get close to 4 playing his career in Cleveland? The rabbit hole is endless, RR.


That is why I have MJ>LeBron but the discussion in the media and among fans is almost exclusively about rings on the pro-MJ side. Not those legit things.
Where I think bias enters the equation is MJ is covered like he is their hero. He gets virtually no scrutiny like every other public figure does, down to small town mayors get. Jordan is discussed by even serious people like Simmons and Russilo as a childhood comic book hero.

Good points, but you get that with Bron now too. From Nick Wright to Shannon Sharpe on FOX and then on ESPN you have Perkins/Jay Williams all gaslighting Bron. Over Jordan too!

I think FMVPs are a pretty big factor. If you don't that's fine. I get why you wouldn't with the brainless and context-less ring counting. There was another thread recently where a few "Kobe fans" compared Bron's 20 ring to Kobe's in 2000. The implication was they would be equal. Complete lunacy but to me that is just blatant trolling.

[dbugz]

I think you mean 4* asterisk rings - quatro is coming.

the * on this one is so big that we shouldn't acknowledge it.