If Giannis started Finals streak by teaming up w/ KD and Embiid..

[3ball]

would anyone respect it?

only giannis/lebron lost 2 years in a row with 60-win, 1 seeds

btw, 2010 wade was the #2 producer in the league, aka #2 in PER, BPM, WS, and VORP - so he was the best help possible

[Roundball_Rock]

U.S. Route 1/9 (US 1/9) is the 31.01-mile (49.91 km) long concurrency of US 1 and US 9 from their junction in Woodbridge Township, Middlesex County, New Jersey, north to New York City. The route is a multilane road, with some freeway portions, that runs through urbanized areas of northern New Jersey adjacent to New York City. Throughout most of its length in New Jersey, the road runs near the New Jersey Turnpike/Interstate 95 (I-95). In Fort Lee, US 1/9 merges onto I-95 and crosses the Hudson River on the George Washington Bridge, where the two U.S. routes split a short distance into New York. US 1/9 intersects several major roads, including I-278 in Linden, Route 81 in Elizabeth, I-78 and US 22 in Newark, Route 139 in Jersey City, Route 3 and Route 495 in North Bergen, and US 46 in Palisades Park. Between Newark and Jersey City, US 1/9 runs along the Pulaski Skyway. Trucks are banned from this section of road and must use US 1/9 Truck. The concurrency between US 1 and US 9 is commonly referred to as "1 and 9".[3][4] Some signage for the concurrency, as well as the truck route, combines the two roads into one shield, separated by a hyphen (1-9) or an ampersand (1&9).[5][6]

The current alignment of US 1/9 south of Elizabeth was planned as pre-1927 Route 1 in 1916; this road was extended to the Holland Tunnel in Jersey City in 1922. When the U.S. Highway System was created in 1926, US 1 and US 9 were marked concurrent through northern New Jersey between Rahway on the current alignments of Route 27 and US 1/9 Truck. In 1927, pre-1927 Route 1 became Route 25, and Route 1 and Route 6 were legislated along the current US 1/9 north of Jersey City. US 1/9 originally went to the Holland Tunnel on Route 25; after the George Washington Bridge opened the two routes were realigned to their current routing north of Jersey City. After the Pulaski Skyway opened in 1932, US 1/9 and Route 25 were routed to use this road, which soon had a truck ban resulting in the creation of Route 25T (now US 1/9 Truck). South of Newark, US 1/9 was moved from Route 27 to Route 25. In 1953, the state highways running concurrent with US 1/9 in New Jersey were removed. In 1964, the approaches to the George Washington Bridge were upgraded into I-95.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/US_1-9.svg

[highwhey]

get help OP

[red1]

mj simply hasn't proven that he can win without pippen.



0 rings without pippen.

[3ball]

get help OP

only lebron/giannis lost 2 years in a row with 60-win, 1 seeds, so it's a GREAT question, let alone a fair one

so again...

if Giannis started a Finals streak by teaming up with KD and Embiid, would his streak be respected?

a simple question... and a GREAT one

[Roundball_Rock]

mj simply hasn't proven that he can win without pippen.



0 rings without pippen.

Maybe he can finally do it in NASCAR? :oldlol:

[red1]

Maybe he can finally do it in NASCAR? :oldlol:

:oldlol:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Yes

I'd respect his sidekick ring.


What do sidekick rings have to with LeBron though?

[8Ball]

Giannis can team up with Jordan for all I care.

They won't make 9 finals in 10 years.

[BigtimeNBAFan]

Maybe he can finally do it in NASCAR? :oldlol:
He certainly isnt doing it as an owner of the hornets. Maybe he should hire pippen as his GM.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Giannis would actually be the 3rd option in this scenario.

Which absolutely destroys the premise of this thread

[3ball]

Giannis can team up with Jordan for all I care.

They won't make 9 finals in 10 years.

If a guy is already getting the 1 seed and nearly winning the East with no stars, then he'll win every year with a "Big 3"

the difference is that you guys are hypnotized by clutch sports, so you laugh at anyone that teams up EXCEPT lebron (the founder of colluding)

Bosh/Love > any 2nd option in the 11-18' East, and probably any 1st option too

anyone would make 8 straight Finals under those conditions (super-team in weak conference, aka stacking deck... cheating)

[8Ball]

Jordan had 2020 Miami heat levels of competition in the East in the 90s.

Patrick Ewing on his own (embiid) and discount Klay Thompson (Reggie Miller)? Craig Eihlo? Who the hell in the East was better them a Jimmy Butler led team in the 90s? Like wtf.

Where was Bird Celtics and Magic and Kareem in the 90s?

Even with that level garbage in the 90s he couldn't make 9/10 finals. So throw him Giannis and Kyrie, he will burn out and play baseball because he needs a load management.

[3ball]

Jordan had 2020 Miami heat levels of competition in the East in the 90s.

Patrick Ewing on his own (embiid) and discount Klay Thompson (Reggie Miller)? Craig Eihlo? Who the hell in the East was better them a Jimmy Butler led team in the 90s? Like wtf.

Where was Bird Celtics and Magic and Kareem in the 90s?

Even with that level garbage in the 90s he couldn't make 9/10 finals. So throw him Giannis and Kyrie, he will burn out and play baseball because he needs a load management.

everyone had similar casts in the 90's East - Ewing had a teammate outplay Pippen in 3 different series but lost all 3 (89' ecsf... 92' ecsf... 96' ecsf)

look it up

[FireDavidKahn]

3ball just compared Embiid and KD to Love and Wade

:roll:

[3ball]

3ball just compared Embiid and KD to Love and Wade

:roll:

KD is hurt and probably won't comeback as the #2 producer in the league like Wade was in 2010

and Embiid's stats < 14' Love (2nd team all-nba)

Love and Bosh > any 1st option in the 11-18' East.. thats how much lebron stacked the deck/cheated

[Roundball_Rock]

He certainly isnt doing it as an owner of the hornets. Maybe he should hire pippen as his GM.

:lol


Jordan had 2020 Miami heat levels of competition in the East in the 90s.

Patrick Ewing on his own (embiid) and discount Klay Thompson (Reggie Miller)? Craig Eihlo? Who the hell in the East was better them a Jimmy Butler led team in the 90s? Like wtf.


Loose analogues but I get what you are saying: Embiid as this era's version of Ewing, Miller was Klay without the defense, etc. Ewing>Butler but Butler has Bam and Bam>Starks.

Can you imagine a team contending with Klay as their best player in this era?

It does not make sense to compare rosters across eras when the 90's and 00's were so much more diluted than every other era. This was due to expansion and it took free agency to offset expansion's dilution of team rosters.


3ball just compared Embiid and KD to Love and Wade

:roll:

:oldlol:

[plowking]

I was never a fan of Bosh before he came to the Heat, much like I wasn't a fan of Bron either.

For different reasons though. Bron because he was a direct competitor to Wade as the best player in the league, but Bosh for the simple fact he wasn't anywhere near as good as Toronto fans claimed. That was evident when he came to the Heat.

Bosh wasn't some godly talent. I wanted Amare over Bosh. I also wanted Boozer over Bosh. Looking back at it now, Bosh probably stayed the most durable and gave us the best chance winning with the way it worked out anyway. But, as far as talent, he definitely wasn't better than Amare, and if you look over their careers, both he and Boozer only made 1 All NBA team. You also have guys like David Lee who have made an All NBA team for reference... But he is a way better player than him. Zach Randolph?

Even when Bosh became the second option once Bron left, he was a 20/8 type guy. A pretty standard second option on a low level playoff team. The level of a David West, Zach Randolph, LaMarcus Aldridge, etc.
In fact, Randolph was putting up similar numbers to Bosh as a second option on a better team in Memphis, while being the 3rd or 4th option many nights. All while getting to the conference finals.
David West was the third option on the Pacers putting up 16/8 while they went to the conference finals against the Heat and lost 4-3.

Anyway, my point is, Bosh wasn't some generational type player, or even much of a winner, or had a style conducive to winning prior. I don't knock Bosh or what he did for that team, but there were plenty of other talents out there that could have filled the spot as well IMO without the "name" that Bosh brought being the main guy for a stint in a place like Toronto.

[3ball]

I was never a fan of Bosh before he came to the Heat, much like I wasn't a fan of Bron either.

For different reasons though. Bron because he was a direct competitor to Wade as the best player in the league, but Bosh for the simple fact he wasn't anywhere near as good as Toronto fans claimed. That was evident when he came to the Heat.

Bosh wasn't some godly talent. I wanted Amare over Bosh. I also wanted Boozer over Bosh. Looking back at it now, Bosh probably stayed the most durable and gave us the best chance winning with the way it worked out anyway. But, as far as talent, he definitely wasn't better than Amare, and if you look over their careers, both he and Boozer only made 1 All NBA team. You also have guys like David Lee who have made an All NBA team for reference... But he is a way better player than him. Zach Randolph?

Even when Bosh became the second option once Bron left, he was a 20/8 type guy. A pretty standard second option on a low level playoff team. The level of a David West, Zach Randolph, LaMarcus Aldridge, etc.
In fact, Randolph was putting up similar numbers to Bosh as a second option on a better team in Memphis, while being the 3rd or 4th option many nights. All while getting to the conference finals.
David West was the third option on the Pacers putting up 16/8 while they went to the conference finals against the Heat and lost 4-3.

Anyway, my point is, Bosh wasn't some generational type player, or even much of a winner, or had a style conducive to winning prior. I don't knock Bosh or what he did for that team, but there were plenty of other talents out there that could have filled the spot as well IMO without the "name" that Bosh brought being the main guy for a stint in a place like Toronto.

name a 1st option in the 11-14' East that was CLEARLY > Bosh

the reality is that Bosh and Love > all 1st options in 11-18' East

that's how stacked the deck is for lebron

now he's playing with Anthony Chamberlain

[plowking]

name a 1st option in the 11-14' East that was CLEARLY > Bosh

the reality is that Bosh and Love > all 1st options in 11-18' East

that's how stacked the deck is for lebron

now he's playing with Anthony Chamberlain

Rose, Melo, Amare as a second option was better than first option Bosh, Dwight, and I'd say you could throw Paul George in there leading his team to the conference finals twice.

If you're talking about all the way to 18, you can add a bunch more names.

[SouBeachTalents]

name a 1st option in the 11-14' East that was CLEARLY > Bosh

the reality is that Bosh and Love > all 1st options in 11-18' East

that's how stacked the deck is for lebron

now he's playing with Anthony Chamberlain
If Bosh was better than all the 1st options in the East how do you explain him missing the playoffs in '09 & '10?

[And1AllDay]

mj simply hasn't proven that he can win without pippen.



0 rings without pippen.

this

Mike could not win anything without scottie pippen and yet some people will still respect him for that like op

[3ball]

Rose, Melo, Amare as a second option was better than first option Bosh, Dwight, and I'd say you could throw Paul George in there leading his team to the conference finals twice.

If you're talking about all the way to 18, you can add a bunch more names.

melo? lol

I rest my case

lebron had an unfairly stacked team, aka his 3rd options > all 1st options in east

[NBAGOAT]

melo? lol

I rest my case

lebron had an unfairly stacked team, aka his 3rd options > all 1st options in east

Melo scored 28 for a couple years and was fringe top 5 in 2013. He was the 1st option for a nuggets conference finals team and was even better in my. You’ve propped about Dominique as good as lebron but really he and melo have similar team results and numbers. I’m no fan of melo but show some respect to prime melo

[3ball]

Melo scored 28 for a couple years and was fringe top 5 in 2013. He was the 1st option for a nuggets conference finals team and was even better in my. You’ve propped about Dominique as good as lebron but really he and melo have similar team results and numbers. I’m no fan of melo but show some respect to prime melo

bruh, I could've won the argument easily by just saying love/bosh > all 2nd options

but they're arguably better than all the 1st options too, certainly most of the years, if not all

[light]

would anyone respect it?

only giannis/lebron lost 2 years in a row with 60-win, 1 seeds

btw, 2010 wade was the #2 producer in the league, aka #2 in PER, BPM, WS, and VORP - so he was the best help possible

KD is an NBA MVP. He was recently ranked 14th all time by experts.

Wade was never an MVP and he was ranked 26th all time.

KD is better than Wade was.

KD may finish his career in the top 10-12.

[Lebron23]

No Pip, No Chip

[3ball]

KD is an NBA MVP. He was recently ranked 14th all time by experts.

Wade was never an MVP and he was ranked 26th all time.

KD is better than Wade was.

KD may finish his career in the top 10-12.
you're splitting hairs - lebron stacked his team excessively and Giannis would never get credit if he did the same right now

and 2010 wade was the #2 player behind lebron.. 2020 Durant isn"t the # 2 player


2010 PER and BPM

Wade 28 and 9
Kobe 22 and 4


so lebron teamed up with a player better than Kobe at the time, but proceeded to be a perennial loser/underdog (lost Finals or was underdog for 3 of 4 yrs)

[Lebron23]

Jordan would get shut down by zone defense if he doesn't improve his 3 points shooting in today's era

[3ball]

Jordan would get shut down by zone defense if he doesn't improve his 3 points shooting in today's era

butler's legendary game 3 had zero three-point attempts and he's attempting 2 per game

also, mj already won rings while shooting at today's level - 39% on 4 attempts in the 93' playoffs, 93' Finals and 92' Finals. that's > 19' Kawhi and 20' Butler





l

[NBAGOAT]

bruh, I could've won the argument easily by just saying love/bosh > all 2nd options

but they're arguably better than all the 1st options too, certainly most of the years, if not all

yes you could have but as usual you got way too greedy with your points. and no not necessarily all 2nd options. west and kg were comparable to bosh impact wise

[1987_Lakers]

melo? lol

I rest my case

lebron had an unfairly stacked team, aka his 3rd options > all 1st options in east

So you would take Bosh over prime Melo when Bosh never even got out of the first round and missed the playoffs his last 2 years in Toronto? Holy shit. :oldlol:

Very hypocritical of you, considering how much you value points, and Carmelo was one of the best of his era as a scorer.

[TheCorporation]

Who remembers when 3ball had decent points and counters and wasn't washed up?

WashedBall

[Lebron_James]

KD is done with that achilles

[Roundball_Rock]

Melo scored 28 for a couple years and was fringe top 5 in 2013. He was the 1st option for a nuggets conference finals team and was even better in my. You’ve propped about Dominique as good as lebron but really he and melo have similar team results and numbers. I’m no fan of melo but show some respect to prime melo


So you would take Bosh over prime Melo when Bosh never even got out of the first round and missed the playoffs his last 2 years in Toronto? Holy shit. :oldlol:

Very hypocritical of you, considering how much you value points, and Carmelo was one of the best of his era as a scorer.

His obsession is PPG yet he disses Carmelo, who was an all-time great scorer. :oldlol:

Nique' is a great comp for Carmelo. 1-9ball and his disciples will rave about Nique'. Same player: ATG scorers who did nothing else on the court and had little team success (although Carmelo at least got out the second round once, unlike Nique).


KD is an NBA MVP. He was recently ranked 14th all time by experts.

Wade was never an MVP and he was ranked 26th all time.

KD is better than Wade was.

KD may finish his career in the top 10-12.

You know who was 5 spots ahead of Wade on the same list...so Wade was behind a player who "sucked" and was Larry Hughes/Iggy/etc. per 1-9ball. :oldlol:

[2ball]

Would KD or Embiid put up 0pts in a finals game like Bosh?

[Bronbron23]

would anyone respect it?

only giannis/lebron lost 2 years in a row with 60-win, 1 seeds

btw, 2010 wade was the #2 producer in the league, aka #2 in PER, BPM, WS, and VORP - so he was the best help possible

This generation would. They were fine with bron joining a top 5 and top 10 player in miami. They were fine with kd joining the warriors and they're fine with lebron joining one of the best big men ever in ad. Its just a different day. Just except it and move on.

[Roundball_Rock]

LeBron didn't join AD, though. He joined a lottery team. AD came via trade (including Ingram, who became an all-star and 1-9ball says is one of the ten GOAT scorers :oldlol:) a year later. Why are people acting like the Lakers got AD for free?

The teaming up stuff is BS but the crocodile tears from MJ fans aren't taken seriously either. Jordan's own fans on ISH will say the Bulls without Jordan had the best roster in the league and should have won the chip with a scrub replacing MJ (I disagree but that is their consensus position). That is an unheard of team advantage yet MJ fans in the next thread will plead poverty of help? :oldlol:

Bosh made one all-NBA team in his entire career (At Bosh's position--leave aside SF's--KG, Dirk, Gasol, Amare, Aldridge all made more in the same era and Boozer, Randolph made as many). Yet he is Embiid? :lol

[Bronbron23]

LeBron didn't join AD, though. He joined a lottery team. AD came via trade (including Ingram, who became an all-star and 1-9ball says is one of the ten GOAT scorers :oldlol:) a year later. Why are people acting like the Lakers got AD for free?

The teaming up stuff is BS but the crocodile tears from MJ fans aren't taken seriously either. Jordan's own fans on ISH will say the Bulls without Jordan had the best roster in the league and should have won the chip with a scrub replacing MJ (I disagree but that is their consensus position). That is an unheard of team advantage yet MJ fans in the next thread will plead poverty of help? :oldlol:

Bosh made one all-NBA team in his entire career (At Bosh's position--leave aside SF's--KG, Dirk, Gasol, Amare, Aldridge all made more in the same era and Boozer, Randolph made as many). Yet he is Embiid? :lol

Ad and lebron definitely planned to team up. Your playing dumb if you think they didn't because you seem like a smart dude. Wether or not teaming up matters is situational and debatable. In brons case its definitely questionable. Bosh was a top 10 scorer and one of the best fowards in the game putting up 24 and 11. Wade on the other hand was a top 5 scorer and a proven champion. How many other players would have multiple chips if they did the same? What if a prime malone or barkley joined shawn kemp and clyde drexler. What if greek right now joins kawhi leonard and karl anthony towns?

[Roundball_Rock]

Ad and lebron definitely planned to team up. Your playing dumb if you think they didn't because you seem like a smart dude. Wether or not teaming up matters is situational and debatable.

The difference is it was done via trade, not free agency, so the Lakers had to give up Ingram, Ball, Hart to get him. It wasn't "free" like LeBron going to Miami or KD going to the Warriors.


How many other players would have multiple chips if they did the same? What if a prime malone or barkley joined shawn kemp and clyde drexler. What if greek right now joins kawhi leonard and karl anthony towns?

Yeah, this is another reason I am not a ring counter since circumstances matter and free agency makes it easier since you can do things like you mention.

Jordan also had a team that was a contender without him (LeBron's teams go to the lottery whenever he leaves). How many rings would Malone or Barkley have on that team? Jordan played on the super team of his era yet his fans want to criticize every other top legend for playing on stacked teams. It is hypocritical.

[Bronbron23]

The difference is it was done via trade, not free agency, so the Lakers had to give up Ingram, Ball, Hart to get him. It wasn't "free" like LeBron going to Miami or KD going to the Warriors.



Yeah, this is another reason I am not a ring counter since circumstances matter and free agency makes it easier since you can do things like you mention.

Jordan also had a team that was a contender without him (LeBron's teams go to the lottery whenever he leaves). How many rings would Malone or Barkley have on that team? Jordan played on the super team of his era yet his fans want to criticize every other top legend for playing on stacked teams. It is hypocritical.

Lebrons teams go to the lottery because he's never wanted a great coach that he'd have to listen to. His teams revolve around him instead of him fitting into a sytem. Miami was a bit different and they would of been fine when he left but bosh had the heart shit and wade was declining. Shit look what spoks is doing now. You cant penalize mj for giving up the stats and buying into a team sytem. He could of kept doug collins who liked jordan in the ball dominant roll and when jordan left the bulls would of fallen off just like brons teams do. Even with a prime pip because he would of just put the ball in pips hands all day and that shit wouldn't have worked. The bron teams falling off when he leaves is such a weird argument if you know the game.

[Roundball_Rock]

That's the narrative: Wade goes from GOAT help to washed up overnight, even though he was healthier in 15' than he was in 14'. :oldlol: Bosh had his issues mid-season and they actually did better after Bosh went out (because they added Dragic and Whiteside became a starter around the same time). The 15' Heat added Dragic, Whiteside, Deng to a finals team core and finished 10th in the East. The Bulls didn't even get a chance to replace Jordan.


He could of kept doug collins who liked jordan in the ball dominant roll and when jordan left the bulls would of fallen off just like brons teams do.

They tried the experiment but it didn't work and Collins was asking MJ to stop hogging the ball by the ECF (hence Game 5).

So LeBron was making the finals with coaches like Brown, Blatt, Lue but MJ needed the GOAT coach? How is the coach argument a plus for MJ?

[Bronbron23]

That's the narrative: Wade goes from GOAT help to washed up overnight, even though he was healthier in 15' than he was in 14'. :oldlol: Bosh had his issues mid-season and they actually did better after Bosh went out (because they added Dragic and Whiteside became a starter around the same time). The 15' Heat added Dragic, Whiteside, Deng to a finals team core and finished 10th in the East. The Bulls didn't even get a chance to replace Jordan.



They tried the experiment but it didn't work and Collins was asking MJ to stop hogging the ball by the ECF (hence Game 5).

So LeBron was making the finals with coaches like Brown, Blatt, Lue but MJ needed the GOAT coach? How is the coach argument a plus for MJ?

No he didn't. Collins is the one who put him in that point gaurd position. He wanted the ball in his hands more he just wanted him to be the primary passer along with there top scorer. In that lebron like roll he had lebron like assist stats btw.

And bron only made it to the finals because he was in the weaker conference while mj was in the tougher conference. If lebron was in the tougher conference he would only have 3 finals trips and none during the time you speak of

[2ball]

Would KD or Embiid put up 0pts in a finals game like Bosh?

Anyone?

[3ball]

Anyone?




Why are you comparing Bosh to KD?... Compare KD to 2010 Wade (#2 player in league)... That's who Lebron teamed up with (10' Wade was #2 in BPM, PER, WS, VORP)

Yes, Lebron teamed up with the #2 player in the league (best help possible), but proceeded to be a perennial loser/underdog (lost Finals or was underdog for 3/4 years)

[Gus Hemmingway]

Why are you comparing Bosh to KD?... Compare KD to 2010 Wade (#2 player in league)... That's who Lebron teamed up with (10' Wade was #2 in BPM, PER, WS, VORP)

Yes, Lebron teamed up with the #2 player in the league (best help possible), but proceeded to be a perennial loser/underdog (lost Finals or was underdog for 3/4 years)


Would KD average 15ppg on 45% in the playoffs like 2013 Wade?