Remember when a shooting guard turned Larry Hughes into peak Pippen, but

[3ball]

lebron couldn't win with him

05' Hughes averaged 22/6/5 and 1st team defense = prime Pippen

and 05' hughes averaged 23/8/4 in a 1st round win alongside Arenas, but then lebron stole Hughes to beat Arenas in 06".. lebron has been teaming up since 06'

[2ball]

05' Hughes averaged 22/6/5 and 1st team defense = prime Pippen

MJ had two prime Pippens in 86

[3ball]

MJ had two prime Pippens in 86

but which guy played in the conference that 1-star teams routinely won

and which guy played in a conference that required many HOF's and an all-time team to win?

[Stanley Kobrick]

i believe larry hughes played with michael jordan and missed the playoffs.

[3ball]

MJ had two prime Pippens in 86

lebron played a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning, while mj played in a conference that required many HOF's and a historic team to win

indeed, Pippen was lucky to come along in the 90"s when 1 and 2 star contenders were the norm (parity.. evenly spread talent).. obviously, the goat wins with anyone in as 2-star vs 2-star format

[red1]

mj ringless without pippen. I know it bothers you which is why you always slander pippen.



0 rings without pippen.

[red1]

lebron = champion without wade
champion without kyrie
champion without AD


mj = ringless without pippen

[tpols]

Nah hughes had negative splits every single year.

Look at his shooting splits... especially in the playoffs. They were pathetic. 24% in the midrange for 2005 and 2006 playoffs his peak years.

[RRR3]

That was pretty obviously an outlier year for Hughes considering he was never close to that good before or after 2004-05. Dude had a career TS of 48.8% :roll:

Even in 2005 it was only 52.3%. He also got hurt in his first year with LeBron which could easily explain why he struggled.

[8Ball]

Larry Hughes turned into Peak Pippen....


Lol. What's next, the earth is flat?


Peak Pippen = 55 wins without Jordan and 3rd on MVP voting.

[3ball]

Nah hughes had negative splits every single year.

Look at his shooting splits... especially in the playoffs. They were pathetic. 24% in the midrange for 2005 and 2006 playoffs his peak years.

you don't think Pippen had runs like that?... see 99' without MJ, or various runs with MJ too

if a shooting guard like Arenas can get prime Pippen stats and 1st team defense out of Hughes, then what could mj get out of him???... you forget that ONLY mj got anything out of Pippen and Pippen was exposed in 99'

if mj gets what Arenas got out of hughes, then they win the 07' Finals - the reality is that lebron destroyed Hughes and mj beat great teams with Pippen getting horrific numbers - mj knew how to elevate and win with players that have spotty offense like pip and Hughes

[2ball]

you don't think Pippen had runs like that?... see 99' without MJ, or various runs with MJ too

if a shooting guard like Arenas can get prime Pippen stats and 1st team defense out of Hughes, then what could mj get out of him???... you forget that ONLY mj got anything out of Pippen and Pippen was exposed in 99'

if mj gets what Arenas got out of hughes, then they win the 07' Finals - the reality is that lebron destroyed Hughes and mj beat great teams with Pippen getting horrific numbers - mj knew how to elevate and win with players that have spotty offense like pip and Hughes

Pippen routinely outplayed the opponents 2nd option in the playoffs. Thoughts?

[light]

lebron couldn't win with him

05' Hughes averaged 22/6/5 and 1st team defense = prime Pippen

and 05' hughes averaged 23/8/4 in a 1st round win alongside Arenas, but then lebron stole Hughes to beat Arenas in 06".. lebron has been teaming up since 06'

This dude is saying Larry Hughes was prime Pippen.

Larry f-----g Hughes was as good the 21st greatest player of all time, says this guy.

The desperation knows no bounds.

[3ball]

Pippen routinely outplayed the opponents 2nd option in the playoffs. Thoughts?




SHORT ANSWER:

pippen was either outscored or matched with better efficiency in 42% of series

also, only mj had massive gaps over his 2nd options because other teams had better balance a far superior depth






Pippen routinely outplayed the opponents 2nd option in the playoffs. Thoughts?





LONG ANSWER


the 94' bulls were respectable in the regular season because expansion spread the talent around the league, so 1 star teams were routinely contenders in the 90's.

otoh, the 80's East had less teams and the talent was more concentrated, so many HOF's were required to win the 80's East.. 1-star teams like the 85' bulls had no chance.. and Pippen wouldn't win 10 games leading those 85' Bulls (woolridge would probably be the top scorer/#1 option anyway)

hope that helps... :applause:



Pippen's averages



1988 RD 1 vs. CLE......10.6 on 47.1%
1988 ECSF vs. DET...... 9.4 on 45.8%

1989 RD 1 vs. CLE......15.0 on 39.8%
1989 ECF vs. DET........ 9.7 on 40.2%


1990 ECF vs DET........16.6 on 42.8%

1992 ECSF vs NYN.....16.0 on 40.2%

1993 RD 1 vs. ATL..... 15.0 on 42.2%

1995 ECSF vs ORL.....19.0 on 40.9%

1996 ECSF vs NYN.... 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA... 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS.....16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF vs. MIA..... 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECF vs IND....... 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA... 15.7 on 41.0

**17 on 41% in 96-98' Playoffs

**19 on 42% in 6 Finals

**12 on 42% vs 88-90' Pistons


you guys are nuts for knocking someone (MJ) that literally never had a bad series

so anytime the series was close or lost, it was pippen's poor play that caused it - see his many horrific series above..

Pippen was worse than Paul George but no one knocked him for it because people viewed him as a secondary player and everyone knew that mj was carrying the team.. mj was expected to win every game and no one noticed or cared how Pippen did.. Pippen never took responsibility because he wasn't a real star

ultimately, mj nearly beat the 89' Pistons despite 10 on 40% from pippen - so mj would've won with anyone OTHER than pippen, thus proving he didn't need him.. and Phil wasn't there in 89' either (Phil inherited a team on the cusp of the Finals






Pippen routinely outplayed the opponents 2nd option in the playoffs. Thoughts?




Playoffs as 1st Options

92' LEWIS..... 28/4/4.. 57.0 ts.. 23.8 PER.. 0.177 ws.. 4.1 dbpm.. 2.6 obpm.. 6.8 bpm.. 0.9 vorp
94' PIPPEN... 23/8/5.. 52.1 ts.. 22.8 PER.. 0.149 ws.. 4.0 dbpm.. 1.6 obpm.. 5.6 bpm.. 0.7 vorp


^^^ this is why I always say everyone was better than Pippen - everyone simply played much better than him!!.. aka everyone's playoff peak was much better... aka Derrick Coleman, Reggie Lewis, KJ, and Chris Mullin, to name a few

[highwhey]

remember when OP wasn't a fakkit? me neither.

[Axe]

Op treating larry hughes as if he ever became an all-star during his career.

[3ball]

Op treating larry hughes as if he ever became an all-star during his career.

Hughes was a combo guard that obviously plays better alongside an off-guard that doesn't dominate the ball

if Arenas turned him into peak Pippen, then mj would do better and win the 07' Finals

l

[1987_Lakers]

Kyrie: 25.2 ppg in 2017 with Bron

Kyrie since he left Cleveland: 24.6 ppg (Basically run out of Boston too)

[Lebron23]

i believe larry hughes played with michael jordan and missed the playoffs.

This. Stackhouse said one of the reasons why the wizards failed to advance in the playoffs because Jordan still wanted to be the leading scorer of his team, at aged 40. He had several games scoring 12 points and below during the 2003 nba season. He had his best scoring games against terrible defensive teams

[TheCorporation]

Looks like Ron Harper numbers

Oh wait, MJ had that guy too :lol

Next

[TheGoatest]

LeBron carried Larry Hughes to the finals in 2007 as his #2 guy.
Jordan couldn't make it to the playoffs in 2003 with Larry Hughes as the #3 guy in a weaker conference.

And this was only in Jordan's 15th season, whereas LeBron is about to win a chip and Finals MVP in his 17th season. :lol

[TheGoatest]

Looks like Ron Harper numbers

Oh wait, MJ had that guy too :lol

Next

Ron Harper's numbers the season before he joined the Bulls: 20.1 ppg, 6.1 rpg & 4.6 apg
Toni Kukoc's numbers the season after Jordan left the Bulls: 18.8 ppg, 7.0 rpg & 5.3 apg

And he had these guys as the distant 4th and 5th best players on his team. Stacked beyond belief.

[Roundball_Rock]

mj ringless without pippen. I know it bothers you which is why you always slander pippen.



0 rings without pippen.

Yup. That is what it is all about. MJ the only top 10 AT player who did nothing team wise without his best teammate.

The hypocrisy is never ending. Hughes>Pippen yet these guys will say all these players who were less accomplished that Pippen in the 90's were flawless legends (e.g., the other day it was Drexler). You can't have it both ways. If Hughes=Pippen that implies Hughes>Drexler, Hughes>Payton, Hughes>Stockton, Hughes>>>Miller, etc.

If Hughes was Pippen in the 21st century and couldn't even make an all-star team, how weak was MJ's era if Hughes would be a MVP candidate in that era and first team all-NBA over guys like prime Barkley, prime Malone, prime Hill, prime Kemp, prime Webber? :lol

[3ball]

pippen was an MVP candidate in that era and first team all-NBA over guys like prime Barkley, prime Malone, prime Hill, prime Kemp, prime Webber? :lol




No one thinks pippen > barkley or malone, so you've proven how the accolades mean nothing in pippen's case.. malone and barkley were 1st options that were knocked for not winning the ring, while pippen got accolades for coattailing rings as 2nd option

he was a 2nd option whose inferior production was inflated due to the rings and winning spotlight.

[Real14]

Lebron always makes players worse.