Reminder: A 100% Finals winning percentage is a NECESSARY condition for GOAT

[Kiddlovesnets]

I dont understand why suddenly there are threads for GOAT debate, but understand one thing. MJ the reigning GOAT, has a 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals. He was never defeated in a Finals series, and he won all the FMVPs. In order for a player to match or surpass MJ, the perfect finals record is a necessary(but not sufficient) condition. Among the players who have won FMVPs in the last 10 years, none of them still has a theoretical chance to surpass MJ as they have all lost at least once in the Finals. Lebron may be winning his 4th title/FMVP soon, its a great accomplishment but he has lost the chance to surpass MJ since 2007 when he got swept in the Finals. Duncan was the closest to the GOAT status but the loss in 2013 made him ineligible too. Its time we just end the GOAT debate for a while, until we see a new multi-FMVP player without losing in the Finals. This may take years or decades, definitely not now.

[Mr. Jabbar]

1- Lebron is the GOAT so no.
2- There is no debate.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yptXkLglKkA&ab_channel=TheScotty161

[Spurs m8]

Its amazing because its not like its a 1 out of 1 or 2 put of 2
Its not even 3 out of 3...he did that TWICE.

6 OUT OF FVCKING 6
WITH 6 FMVP.

Then you look at his skill, the way he played, the way he was feared, and respected...the way he lead.

What dumb cvnt ever put LeEasyWayOut in the convo?

Not a convo

[kawhileonard2]

Getting bronze medal in basketball in the olympics eliminates anyone from GOAT debate.

Also losing to these teams when you were favorites

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011_preseason_odds.html (Dallas 7th)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014_preseason_odds.html (San Antonio 6th)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_preseason_odds.html (Golden State 8th)

[2ball]

You have to include entire career and the years players missed the playoffs/finals. Bill Russell is the GOAT

[kawhileonard2]

You have to include entire career and the years players missed the playoffs/finals. Bill Russell is the GOAT

That's nice if Bill Russell had to play 4 series a year for a title. He had to play 2 series a year for 8 titles and 3 series a year for 3 titles. 4 series a year started in 1984.

[2ball]

That's nice if Bill Russell had to play 4 series a year for a title. He had to play 2 series a year for 8 titles and 3 series a year for 3 titles. 4 series a year started in 1984.

So his competition had the same opportunities

[kawhileonard2]

So his competition had the same opportunities

Not really! You got a round off then. Take 1965 for example. Sixers had to win 3 games to advance to next series while Boston had no one to play up front. Sixers were .500 team and the series went 7 with Boston winning by 1 point.

[3ball]

I don't think a perfect record is necessary, but a good record is necessary

Finals record = team ceiling

a bad Finals record over a large sample shows the player doesn''t yield the best teams

ultimately, the holy grail of basketball accomplishment is ring count... as the best player... aka best player rings

[LukeWalton]

i thought Paul Pierce is the Goat

[2ball]

I don't think a perfect record is necessary, but a good record is necessary

Finals record = team ceiling

a bad Finals record over a large sample shows the player doesn''t yield the best teams

ultimately, the holy grail of basketball accomplishment is ring count... as the best player... aka best player rings

Ultimately Russell is the goat since he won the most

[MrFonzworth]

Its amazing because its not like its a 1 out of 1 or 2 put of 2
Its not even 3 out of 3...he did that TWICE.

6 OUT OF FVCKING 6
WITH 6 FMVP.

Then you look at his skill, the way he played, the way he was feared, and respected...the way he lead.

What dumb cvnt ever put LeEasyWayOut in the convo?

Not a convo

Getting a little riled up there m8

[Axe]

i thought Paul Pierce is the Goat
No it was brian scalabrine

[TheGoatest]

A first round exit in your prime perma-disqualifies you from any GOAT discussion.

[bullettooth]

Look at all these angry little bron jock riders lol.

9 finals appearances and you only won 3? LMAO!

[Manny98]

So a player could have 9 rings 9 FMVPs but because he went 9-1 in the finals he's automatically disqualified from being in the GOAT discussion?

[Kiddlovesnets]

So a player could have 9 rings 9 FMVPs but because he went 9-1 in the finals he's automatically disqualified from being in the GOAT discussion?

Yup, a perfect finals record is a necessary condition for GOAT discussion.

[And1AllDay]

shambles :oldlol:

we need at least 10 finals trips (conference wins) to qualify

10 or more finals club
-bran
-kareem
-russell

thats it. we dont reward inconsistent players that rely on 1 player all his career. next

[dbugz]

100% win rate as the #1 dude.

no one's beating that

MJ the goat!

:djparty:djparty:hammertime::djparty:djparty

[SlickRick]

Coming from an ex-Lebron hater, Lebron has built an incredible legacy for himself, i say surpassing Hakeem,Kareem,Kobe,Magic,Bird,Duncan, but he has yet to pass Shaq and Jordan in my opinion.

[Kiddlovesnets]

100% win rate as the #1 dude.

no one's beating that

MJ the goat!

:djparty:djparty:hammertime::djparty:djparty

Yeah another player to surpass MJ, will need 100% finals record as well as 100% FMVP winning rate(unless he has more than 6 FMVP rings already, then 1-2 more sidekick rings wont hurt). I dont see anyone with this kind of talent and opportunity in recent future.

[dbugz]

Yeah another player to surpass MJ, will need 100% finals record as well as 100% FMVP winning rate(unless he has more than 6 FMVP rings already, then 1-2 more sidekick rings wont hurt). I dont see anyone with this kind of talent and opportunity in recent future.

libron can't even do a 100% win rate in a finals series against a Jimmy Butler and a bunch of nobodies. :roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

Damn, Russell can't be GOAT since 11-1 doesn't cut it. If only he lost in the first round that year.

[G0ATbe]

A first round exit in your prime perma-disqualifies you from any GOAT discussion.

/thread

[dbugz]

why is MJ fans always winning?

https://i.gifer.com/3Eoj.gif

https://media1.giphy.com/media/26xBHJGy8YJ3QIKHu/giphy.gif

https://akns-images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2015112/rs_500x400-151202153259-dancing-1.gif

[2ball]

Hakeem is 100% in the finals. In fact he won DPOY while doing so. Op is a retard. 1-0 is better than 11-1 by his logic

[jlip]

Hakeem is 100% in the finals. In fact he won DPOY while doing so. Op is a retard. 1-0 is better than 11-1 by his logic

Nah...Hakeem went to the finals early in his career in '86 and lost to Bird's Celtics.

[dbugz]

Hakeem is 100% in the finals. In fact he won DPOY while doing so. Op is a retard. 1-0 is better than 11-1 by his logic


fail

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-25-2017/oz0luV.gif

[Kiddlovesnets]

libron can't even do a 100% win rate in a finals series against a Jimmy Butler and a bunch of nobodies. :roll:

Well I am talking about the 100% win rate for a series, not individual games though. But yeah, Lebron is 3/9 so hes definitely out of the GOAT discussion, actually as early as 2007.

[nineiron]

Getting bronze medal in basketball in the olympics eliminates anyone from GOAT debate.

Also losing to these teams when you were favorites

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011_preseason_odds.html (Dallas 7th)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014_preseason_odds.html (San Antonio 6th)

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2015_preseason_odds.html (Golden State 8th)

LMFAO LEBRONZE!!!!

https://media.giphy.com/media/RGRVGX98WsV9SNCBUn/giphy.gif

[Bronbron23]

I dont understand why suddenly there are threads for GOAT debate, but understand one thing. MJ the reigning GOAT, has a 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals. He was never defeated in a Finals series, and he won all the FMVPs. In order for a player to match or surpass MJ, the perfect finals record is a necessary(but not sufficient) condition. Among the players who have won FMVPs in the last 10 years, none of them still has a theoretical chance to surpass MJ as they have all lost at least once in the Finals. Lebron may be winning his 4th title/FMVP soon, its a great accomplishment but he has lost the chance to surpass MJ since 2007 when he got swept in the Finals. Duncan was the closest to the GOAT status but the loss in 2013 made him ineligible too. Its time we just end the GOAT debate for a while, until we see a new multi-FMVP player without losing in the Finals. This may take years or decades, definitely not now.

Na dont need 100% but you definitely cant be below 50%

[2ball]

Na dont need 100% but you definitely cant be below 50%

Losing in the first round is worse

[Bronbron23]

Losing in the first round is worse

Losing is losing dude. You dont get extra points for making it to the finals vs losing in the first round. You still lost. Actually losing in the finals is usually worse because it usually means you had a good team and had a chance but just couldn't get it done. Usually when teams lose in the first round it's because they didn't have a great team and didn't stand a chance.

[nineiron]

Losing is losing dude. You dont get extra points for making it to the finals vs losing in the first round. You still lost. Actually losing in the finals is usually worse because it usually means you had a good team and had a chance but just couldn't get it done. Usually when teams lose in the first round it's because they didn't have a great team and didn't stand a chance.

not a good idea to use logic with a bran stan

[2ball]

Losing is losing dude. You dont get extra points for making it to the finals vs losing in the first round. You still lost. Actually losing in the finals is usually worse because it usually means you had a good team and had a chance but just couldn't get it done. Usually when teams lose in the first round it's because they didn't have a great team and didn't stand a chance.

Losing in the first round is worse it means you were good enough to get to the playoffs but couldn’t get the job done...

[dbugz]

Losing in the first round is worse it means you were good enough to get to the playoffs but couldn’t get the job done...

just like leading the league in playoffs points but not good enough to win atleast half of your nba finals appearance?

:roll: :roll:

https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-25-2017/oz0luV.gif

[MaxPlayer]

It's better to lose in the first round than win your conference title? Christ, are you people allowed near sharp objects?

[light]

I dont understand why suddenly there are threads for GOAT debate, but understand one thing. MJ the reigning GOAT, has a 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals. He was never defeated in a Finals series, and he won all the FMVPs. In order for a player to match or surpass MJ, the perfect finals record is a necessary(but not sufficient) condition. Among the players who have won FMVPs in the last 10 years, none of them still has a theoretical chance to surpass MJ as they have all lost at least once in the Finals. Lebron may be winning his 4th title/FMVP soon, its a great accomplishment but he has lost the chance to surpass MJ since 2007 when he got swept in the Finals. Duncan was the closest to the GOAT status but the loss in 2013 made him ineligible too. Its time we just end the GOAT debate for a while, until we see a new multi-FMVP player without losing in the Finals. This may take years or decades, definitely not now.

It literally ins't necessary. If you do something that is more difficult than that - which LeBron has done x10 - then you don't need to have done that.

[RRR3]

Isn’t John Havlicek 8/8 in the finals? Guess he’s the real GOAT.

[Bronbron23]

Losing in the first round is worse it means you were good enough to get to the playoffs but couldn’t get the job done...

Nah dude. Usually teams in the finals are comparable. Teams in the first round are usually playing against a team thats much better than them. This isn't even arguable tbh.

[Bronbron23]

It's better to lose in the first round than win your conference title? Christ, are you people allowed near sharp objects?

No its definitely not better but its not much worse. You still lost and most likely lost when you were a contender and good enough not to. Most 8 seeds aren't contenders.

[Roundball_Rock]

Isn’t John Havlicek 8/8 in the finals? Guess he’s the real GOAT.

Yup. The real GOAT list:

1) Havlicek
2) Horry
3) Pippen
4) Jordan
5) Kerr

Pippen and Jordan are both 6-0 but Pippen gets the tiebreaker because he had (much) more overall team success.

Russell won 11 rings but is disqualified because he lost a finals because he got hurt in the series. 11-1 does not cut it. 5-0>11-1.

[Bronbron23]

Yup. The real GOAT list:

1) Havlicek
2) Horry
3) Pippen
4) Jordan
5) Kerr

Pippen and Jordan are both 6-0 but Pippen gets the tiebreaker because he had (much) more overall team success.

Russell won 11 rings but is disqualified because he lost a finals because he got hurt in the series. 11-1 does not cut it. 5-0>11-1.

The chips argument by itself isnt a great one. You need chips but you also need the stats and accolades. Eye test matters a bit too. When you combine all 4 categories mj comes put on on top. Stats are close. Mj wins if were talking per and lebron wins if were talking totals. Accolades, chips and eye test are all mj.

[RRR3]

The chips argument by itself isnt a great one. You need chips but you also need the stats and accolades. Eye test matters a bit too. When you combine all 4 categories mj comes put on on top. Stats are close. Mj wins if were talking per and lebron wins if were talking totals. Accolades, chips and eye test are all mj.
Eye test is subjective BS. I could Kyrie Irving is GOAT based on my eye test

[Bronbron23]

Eye test is subjective BS. I could Kyrie Irving is GOAT based on my eye test

Then you got some f*cked up eyes bruh.

[RRR3]

Then you got some f*cked up eyes bruh.
You missed the point as usual.

[Bronbron23]

You missed the point as usual.

Nope. I get what your saying. Problem is your just wrong. Kyrie is nowhere near a goat based on the eye test. Do your eyes not see his bad defense? His bad decision making? His inconsistent shooting? His lack of chemistry with teammates? Get your shit checked asap bruh:facepalm

[Kiddlovesnets]

Isn’t John Havlicek 8/8 in the finals? Guess he’s the real GOAT.

As I mentioned, a perfect Finals record is a necessary but not sufficient condition. Havlicek going 8/8 means that he satisfies the necessary condition to have 100% finals winning percentage, but its not sufficient enough to make him GOAT 'cause MJ also has 6 NBA titles, 6 FMVPs as well as 10 scoring titles.

[bullettooth]

It literally ins't necessary. If you do something that is more difficult than that - which LeBron has done x10 - then you don't need to have done that.

Getting past the G League Eastern Conference was more difficult than anything MJ's faced?

https://media.giphy.com/media/a3zqvrH40Cdhu/source.gif

[RRR3]

Nope. I get what your saying. Problem is your just wrong. Kyrie is nowhere near a goat based on the eye test. Do your eyes not see his bad defense? His bad decision making? His inconsistent shooting? His lack of chemistry with teammates? Get your shit checked asap bruh:facepalm
Holy shit you still don’t get it. Poor fella.

[Roundball_Rock]

The chips argument by itself isnt a great one. You need chips but you also need the stats and accolades. Eye test matters a bit too. When you combine all 4 categories mj comes put on on top. Stats are close. Mj wins if were talking per and lebron wins if were talking totals. Accolades, chips and eye test are all mj.

Chips are really weak but that is what we hear 24/7 for MJ. As to the combination of things, it depends on how you interpret records. Someone could easily say KAJ, for example.


but its not sufficient enough to make him GOAT 'cause MJ also has 6 NBA titles, 6 FMVPs

How is Havlicek supposed to win an award that didn't exist for 6 of those 8 finals?

[Bronbron23]

Chips are really weak but that is what we hear 24/7 for MJ. As to the combination of things, it depends on how you interpret records. Someone could easily say KAJ, for example.



How is Havlicek supposed to win an award that didn't exist for 6 of those 8 finals?

Yeah i have no issues with anyone saying kareem.

[2ball]

LeBron is going to have the majority of counting stats plus 4 chips. MJ stans can’t wrap their heads around this

[Hey Yo]

Losing is losing dude. You dont get extra points for making it to the finals vs losing in the first round. You still lost. Actually losing in the finals is usually worse because it usually means you had a good team and had a chance but just couldn't get it done. Usually when teams lose in the first round it's because they didn't have a great team and didn't stand a chance.

How is having a chance to win a title by playing in the Finals the same as losing in the first round?

[Bronbron23]

How is having a chance to win a title by playing in the Finals the same as losing in the first round?

Because you still lost dude. Yeah you obviously did a little better because you went further but your no better off than a team that lost in the first round. At the end of the day your both losers. One just lost a bit later. Both suck. Losing in the finals sucks more because you had a chance. You were that much closer.

Do you think mj,kobe or any great felt better about losing in the first round compared to a later round?

[SATAN]

One of the dumbest threads I've ever seen. The ring "debate" was ALWAYS biased and retarded, usually made by people who barely ever played basketball at all, barely even watched basketball after MJ, never watched ANY basketball before MJ. Bron is the best all round player to pick up a basketball. Deal with it.

[Hey Yo]

Because you still lost dude. Yeah you obviously did a little better because you went further but your no better off than a team that lost in the first round. At the end of the day your both losers. One just lost a bit later. Both suck. Losing in the finals sucks more because you had a chance. You were that much closer.

Do you think mj,kobe or any great felt better about losing in the first round compared to a later round?
It's not about how they would have felt, its about using common sense that playing for a title is 100% better than not playing for a title.

Giving your team a chance to win a title >>>>>>>>>>> no chance whatsoever of winning a title cause you're not playing in the title series.

I cant dumb it down for ya more than this.

[SATAN]

he's trolling you...

[8Ball]

Jordan losing in 1995 was a blessing for him I guess.

:roll:

[Bronbron23]

It's not about how they would have felt, its about using common sense that playing for a title is 100% better than not playing for a title.

Giving your team a chance to win a title >>>>>>>>>>> no chance whatsoever of winning a title cause you're not playing in the title series.

I cant dumb it down for ya more than this.

Nah man its such a bitch way to look at it. When its all said and done losing is losing. Who in the hell is happy with second place? I know im not and i bet they aren't either. Do you actually think 2nd place is way better than 12th place? Both would suck imo. If you wanna be technical about it yeah if course 2 is better than 12 but as far as how it feels and how it will be looked back on in history theres not much difference between comin in 12th and coming in second. They're both losers.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Looks like the finals will continue on, Lebron’s 4th is still not guaranteed. He has to win this one to avoid dropping out of top 5 all time, he’s definitely not there anymore if he goes 3/10. If he wins it though, he will make a case to surpass Kareem and Magic.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lebron won the 4th title, I’d put him in the same tier with Kareem and Magic now, he has a solid chance to become the clear cut #2 all time after he retires, but GOAT is out of his reach since he can’t go back in time to win the finals he lost in the past.

[light]

I dont understand why suddenly there are threads for GOAT debate, but understand one thing. MJ the reigning GOAT, has a 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals..

Have you never wondered why boxers with perfect records are not considered GOATs?

Muhammad Ali was 56-5.

Sugar Ray Robinson (my GOAT) was 173–19–6.

People want to see what you're really made of - how you pick yourself up - how you respond to the most difficult adversity.

Jordan avoided being put in that situation by leaving the sport whenever he felt his team wasn't going to win. Horace Grant left after 1993. Scottie and Phil left after 1998. The Bulls still wanted to keep MJ but he didn't want to stay and he didn't go anywhere else. He quit.

I think MJ was a bit like Mayweather JR. in that they were both afraid to lose and so MJ gets points deducted for not allowing us to see what he was really made of.

[Baller789]

Have you never wondered why boxers with perfect records are not considered GOATs?

Muhammad Ali was 56-5.

Sugar Ray Robinson (my GOAT) was 173–19–6.

People want to see what you're really made of - how you pick yourself up - how you respond to the most difficult adversity.

Jordan avoided being put in that situation by leaving the sport whenever he felt his team wasn't going to win. Horace Grant left after 1993. Scottie and Phil left after 1998. The Bulls still wanted to keep MJ but he didn't want to stay and he didn't go anywhere else. He quit.

I think MJ was a bit like Mayweather JR. in that they were both afraid to lose and so MJ gets points deducted for not allowing us to see what he was really made of.
False premise. If you want to use boxing analogy it's like this:
Player A gets 10 CHAMPIONSHIP fights, wins everytime = legend
Player B gets to 20 CHAMPIONSHIP fights, wins 7 of them = choker, missed opportunity, loses more than wins e.g. Lebron

Nobody would care how many title shots you earned. If you don't win more than you lose, your probably not all that.

[Bronbron23]

Have you never wondered why boxers with perfect records are not considered GOATs?

Muhammad Ali was 56-5.

Sugar Ray Robinson (my GOAT) was 173–19–6.

People want to see what you're really made of - how you pick yourself up - how you respond to the most difficult adversity.

Jordan avoided being put in that situation by leaving the sport whenever he felt his team wasn't going to win. Horace Grant left after 1993. Scottie and Phil left after 1998. The Bulls still wanted to keep MJ but he didn't want to stay and he didn't go anywhere else. He quit.

I think MJ was a bit like Mayweather JR. in that they were both afraid to lose and so MJ gets points deducted for not allowing us to see what he was really made of.

You wanna talk about avoiding tough situations bron left and formed a super team because it was to hard. Are you serious? I actually dont blame him but your talking out your ass on tvis one.

[Trollsmasher]

yo what if Jordan only won 3 in 3? would 3 rangz be enough to put him over the top? it's 100% record after all

[2ball]

Have you never wondered why boxers with perfect records are not considered GOATs?

Muhammad Ali was 56-5.

Sugar Ray Robinson (my GOAT) was 173–19–6.

People want to see what you're really made of - how you pick yourself up - how you respond to the most difficult adversity.

Jordan avoided being put in that situation by leaving the sport whenever he felt his team wasn't going to win. Horace Grant left after 1993. Scottie and Phil left after 1998. The Bulls still wanted to keep MJ but he didn't want to stay and he didn't go anywhere else. He quit.

I think MJ was a bit like Mayweather JR. in that they were both afraid to lose and so MJ gets points deducted for not allowing us to see what he was really made of.

Spot on :applause:

[NBASTATMAN]

1- Lebron is the GOAT so no.
2- There is no debate.

how about a winning season without PIPPEN..MJ doesnt even have a winning season without PIPPEN.. HOW THE FREAK IS HE THE GOAT.. LOL.. Second best for MJ

[jlip]

In '86 Hakeem was hurting his legacy by leading his team ito an upset victory over the defending champ Lakers and losing in the Finals to the Celtics while MJ was preserving his legacy being swept in the first round that same season.

[Kiddlovesnets]

In '86 Hakeem was hurting his legacy by leading his team ito an upset victory over the defending champ Lakers and losing in the Finals to the Celtics while MJ was preserving his legacy being swept in the first round that same season.

Not really, Hakeem is not in the GOAT conversation so any finals loss would not matter much. If you want to compare him to MJ though(most people wont, I assure you), then this finals loss will hold against him, but thats the only situation in which the 86 runner-up will be Hakeem's disadvantage.

[mr4speed]

Chips are really weak but that is what we hear 24/7 for MJ. As to the combination of things, it depends on how you interpret records. Someone could easily say KAJ, for example.



How is Havlicek supposed to win an award that didn't exist for 6 of those 8 finals?
Great post and point about "awards". Here is a player nobody talks about = Sam Jones. I believe he has 10 championship rings and Bill Russell once said, "whenever we really needed a basket, we went to Sam and he delivered." Everyone has their own opinion because people have differing measuring sticks. Glad you mentioned Kareem, his basketball resume from high school, college and the NBA is something that will never be duplicated.

[BigtimeNBAFan]

You can't be in the GOAT conversation if you get swept in the first round. Nothing is more pathetic than getting swept in the first round. Sorry Jordan is no longer in the GOAT conversation.

Think that comment is stupid? It is, but it isn't as stupid as saying Finals Record is what matters.

[Shooter]

Have you never wondered why boxers with perfect records are not considered GOATs?

Muhammad Ali was 56-5.

Sugar Ray Robinson (my GOAT) was 173–19–6.

People want to see what you're really made of - how you pick yourself up - how you respond to the most difficult adversity.

Jordan avoided being put in that situation by leaving the sport whenever he felt his team wasn't going to win. Horace Grant left after 1993. Scottie and Phil left after 1998. The Bulls still wanted to keep MJ but he didn't want to stay and he didn't go anywhere else. He quit.

I think MJ was a bit like Mayweather JR. in that they were both afraid to lose and so MJ gets points deducted for not allowing us to see what he was really made of.

Bingo

Slayed

[Shooter]

Jordan losing in 1995 was a blessing for him I guess.

:roll:

And


1985
1986
1987
1988
1989
1990
1995
2002
2003

[MadDog]

They dont need to win 100% but LeBron automatically forfeited his "GOAT" title by doing what Durant did 3 times. Think about the vast majority of ATGs throughout history, and now imagine them leaving their teams to play with other stars. Multiple rings would ensue. LeBron is an ATG and still at the top of his game, but his career is manufactured. Case in point, AD outscored LeBron in these playoffs while also leading LA in winshares and equaling LeBron in per. Not a peep though. LeBron has zero argument for GOAT.

[8Ball]

Zero argument?

He's a better player than Jordan is. That's all the argument he needs.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Zero argument?

He's a better player than Jordan is. That's all the argument he needs.

Nope hes not better, Lebron lost in the Finals 2007 and already disqualified from GOAT conversation ever since.

[Phoenix]

Nope hes not better, Lebron lost in the Finals 2007 and already disqualified from GOAT conversation ever since.

That's silly. MJ was getting GOAT talk around 1990. For context? 3 years earlier he was getting swept in the first round. Between those years he got to the 2nd round(88), conference finals twice( 89 and 90) and an MVP/DPOY. There were FAR better resumes at that point( Kareem, Wilt, Russell, West, Magic, Bird, Oscar) so clearly not winning a championship wasnt a barrier to that kind of discussion( it was premature, but the point is nobody was saying well MJ got swept twice in the first round so he's disqualified). So I don't know why we are doing this now. I'm an MJ guy and this is bad form.

[Kiddlovesnets]

That's silly. MJ was getting GOAT talk around 1990. For context? 3 years earlier he was getting swept in the first round.

MJ was never swept, I checked his playoffs record and didnt find a series that he lost 0-4.

[Baller789]

MJ was never swept, I checked his playoffs record and didnt find a series that he lost 0-4.

No sh!t Lebron got swept in finals, twice?
Lost as favorites too?
Got embarrassed in the finals by record margins?
4/10?

Yuck.

[TheCorporation]

Imagine being dumb enough to think that:
6/6 is better than 6/10 :lol

I don't give rewards for LESS Finals

Next

[Mauzah]

Once Jordans powers were self-actualized (91) he held the league down until 1999. Think about that for a second. That's almost a decade of straight domination even with the Rockets going back to back in the middle.

Lebron at the height of his powers crumbled like a superstar never has before on the worlds biggest stage. There's a big difference between the two and the stats and rings are only one part of the equation.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Imagine being dumb enough to think that:
6/6 is better than 6/10 :lol

I don't give rewards for LESS Finals

Next

Imagine MJ didn’t retire in 1993-1995 and took his team to the finals then lost to the Rockets twice. His finals record would be 6/8 in this case, and it will be serious blow to his legacy. People will be arguing how MJ couldn’t win against Hakeem and that he won 6 titles when the Dream didn’t have good enough teammates to make it to the finals. So yes, 6/6 > 6/10 anyday, there’s something about being flawless in the finals.

[Axe]

Once Jordans powers were self-actualized (91) he held the league down until 1999. Think about that for a second. That's almost a decade of straight domination even with the Rockets going back to back in the middle.

Lebron at the height of his powers crumbled like a superstar never has before on the worlds biggest stage. There's a big difference between the two and the stats and rings are only one part of the equation.
Yeah but that's after the flagrant foul was implemented into the league

[AirBonner]

MJ’s powers were actualized once his competition was neutralized

[Shooter]

Imagine being dumb enough to think that:
6/6 is better than 6/10 :lol

I don't give rewards for LESS Finals

Next

Wrecked

THREAD OVER :lol

[Mauzah]

Yeah but that's after the flagrant foul was implemented into the league

Can you expound on your point please?

[SATAN]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYhcTzVlbgX327S2FVknDikm_deoCiP RZugw&usqp=CAU

[tanibanana]

But 1-9 is not a good record... at all

[SouBeachTalents]

They dont need to win 100% but LeBron automatically forfeited his "GOAT" title by doing what Durant did 3 times. Think about the vast majority of ATGs throughout history, and now imagine them leaving their teams to play with other stars. Multiple rings would ensue. LeBron is an ATG and still at the top of his game, but his career is manufactured. Case in point, AD outscored LeBron in these playoffs while also leading LA in winshares and equaling LeBron in per. Not a peep though. LeBron has zero argument for GOAT.
:oldlol: What a clown

[Mauzah]

I think part of the allure to Jordans career is that it seems to follow the heroes journey so perfectly well.

First act - Introduction - Spectacular right out of the gates - Has the skills, charisma and the nonstop highlight package

Second act - Obstacles - Celtics/Pistons/Cavs - Unable to overcome the nemesis - Continually improving - Adding new pieces (Pip/Horace) - Phil Jackson/Tex Winters introduce triangle - Improving each year but in the end unable to get over the hump

89 off season - A merger of peak physical ability fused with an already incredible understanding of the game that is continuing to improve with experience and age

Third act - Same foes however battle tested with a series of defeats - Overcomes the Pistons - New foe - Lakers Magic FINALS - Michael Jordan becomes MICHAEL JORDAN and cements himself as an NBA Champion

People harp on the 1-9 so much when I think it's actually beautiful. Jordan and the Bulls stayed the course and overcame their hurdles the right way to become NBA champions. Not once but six times with two dynasties throughout all of it. That is insane. And to finish with THE SHOT all things.

https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2010/0612/chi_g_jordan1x_576.jpg

[Axe]

Can you expound on your point please?
The pistons stopped dominating when it became effective and that was the only time mj's teams started flourishing

[Kiddlovesnets]

But 1-9 is not a good record... at all

Well we only talk about the ceilings, aka the finals performance. If you talk about 1-9 in first rounds in the first 3 years, then how about missing playoffs in the first 2 years of the career? And we can even go back to college/high school days lol. The point is, these don’t matter. When it comes to top 5 players of all time, only the finals records are relevant.

[PCCM_29]

Well we only talk about the ceilings, aka the finals performance. If you talk about 1-9 in first rounds in the first 3 years, then how about missing playoffs in the first 2 years of the career? And we can even go back to college/high school days lol. The point is, these don’t matter. When it comes to top 5 players of all time, only the finals records are relevant.

Look, this isn't that complicated. Winning more is better than winning less. If you think Lebron making it to all those finals despite not winning is HURTING his record, just know you're literally saying "yeah if he was a worse basketball player he'd be a better basketball player"

Jordan never faced teams he couldn't beat in the finals because during those years, he wasn't good enough to make it to the finals. This isn't an inflammatory comment. Literally, he did not make it because he didn't play basketball well enough to win the games needed to advance.

07 spurs, '15/'17/'18 warriors, lebron had no business getting there except for the fact that's he so damn good he somehow made it

[AirBonner]

I think part of the allure to Jordans career is that it seems to follow the heroes journey so perfectly well.

First act - Introduction - Spectacular right out of the gates - Has the skills, charisma and the nonstop highlight package

Second act - Obstacles - Celtics/Pistons/Cavs - Unable to overcome the nemesis - Continually improving - Adding new pieces (Pip/Horace) - Phil Jackson/Tex Winters introduce triangle - Improving each year but in the end unable to get over the hump

89 off season - A merger of peak physical ability fused with an already incredible understanding of the game that is continuing to improve with experience and age

Third act - Same foes however battle tested with a series of defeats - Overcomes the Pistons - New foe - Lakers Magic FINALS - Michael Jordan becomes MICHAEL JORDAN and cements himself as an NBA Champion

People harp on the 1-9 so much when I think it's actually beautiful. Jordan and the Bulls stayed the course and overcame their hurdles the right way to become NBA champions. Not once but six times with two dynasties throughout all of it. That is insane. And to finish with THE SHOT all things.

https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2010/0612/chi_g_jordan1x_576.jpg

And then conveniently ignore his wizards years

[light]

1- Lebron is the GOAT so no.
2- There is no debate.

This.

Being LeBron James is the necessary condition for GOAT.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/ae9be931e51e88353d206258d06b9c15/tenor.gif?itemid=7381175

[Mauzah]

And then conveniently ignore his wizards years

Whats to say? He played great for a 40 year old dealing with injuries.

It would be like pushing sequels when there's no more material. Sure it's not as good as first few movies but you still enjoy the character.

[Baller789]

Look, this isn't that complicated. Winning more is better than winning less. If you think Lebron making it to all those finals despite not winning is HURTING his record, just know you're literally saying "yeah if he was a worse basketball player he'd be a better basketball player"

Jordan never faced teams he couldn't beat in the finals because during those years, he wasn't good enough to make it to the finals. This isn't an inflammatory comment. Literally, he did not make it because he didn't play basketball well enough to win the games needed to advance.

07 spurs, '15/'17/'18 warriors, lebron had no business getting there except for the fact that's he so damn good he somehow made it

Losing in the finals isn't winning bub.

4/10. Yuck.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://e0.365dm.com/20/10/768x432/skysports-lebron-james-los-angeles-lakers_5136348.jpg?20201012093207

Yuck

[Kiddlovesnets]

https://e0.365dm.com/20/10/768x432/skysports-lebron-james-los-angeles-lakers_5136348.jpg?20201012093207

Yuck

MJ doesnt have to win with 3 different teams, hes busy 3-peating with just 1 team, and did this twice.

[dankok8]

Look, this isn't that complicated. Winning more is better than winning less. If you think Lebron making it to all those finals despite not winning is HURTING his record, just know you're literally saying "yeah if he was a worse basketball player he'd be a better basketball player"

Jordan never faced teams he couldn't beat in the finals because during those years, he wasn't good enough to make it to the finals. This isn't an inflammatory comment. Literally, he did not make it because he didn't play basketball well enough to win the games needed to advance.

07 spurs, '15/'17/'18 warriors, lebron had no business getting there except for the fact that's he so damn good he somehow made it

I agree that making a Finals is better than not making it but in some years Lebron did have a good enough team to do damage in the Finals according to oddsmakers and his still got swept off the court. 2007, 2014, 2017 and 2018 should have been closer series than they were and 2011 he should have outright won.

[Kiddlovesnets]

2007, 2014, 2017 and 2018 should have been closer series than they were and 2011 he should have outright won.

Interestingly, the 07 Spurs and 18 Warriors only swept 1 team, Lebron's Cavaliers.

[SouBeachTalents]

Interestingly, the 07 Spurs and 18 Warriors only swept 1 team, Lebron's Cavaliers.
As did the '87 Celtics, Jordan's Bulls

[Axe]

Interestingly, the 07 Spurs and 18 Warriors only swept 1 team, Lebron's Cavaliers.
The nets were swept in 02 iirc

[SouBeachTalents]

The nets were swept in 02 iirc
:oldlol: That's very true

[Kiddlovesnets]

As did the '87 Celtics, Jordan's Bulls

The Bulls were not a title contender, they were first round exit bound team. The 07 and 18 cavaliers are finalists and supposedly able to contend in the finals series, and they did worse than any other teams in the west.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Player wins 7 straight titles and becomes the new GOAT. The next year loses in the finals and is no longer the GOAT. Wins six more straight. Still not the GOAT. That one loss is disqualifying. Doesn't matter if he has more than 2x as many rings as MJ, can't be GOAT because he lost one time in the finals instead of the first round.

TLDR: Kiddlovesnets still eating Elmer's glue in the corner with 3ball.

[warriorfan]

Player wins 7 straight titles and becomes the new GOAT. The next year loses in the finals and is no longer the GOAT. Wins six more straight. Still not the GOAT. That one loss is disqualifying. Doesn't matter if he has more than 2x as many rings as MJ, can't be GOAT because he lost one time in the finals instead of the first round.

TLDR: Kiddlovesnets still eating Elmer's glue in the corner with 3ball.

Bron colluded with the two of the top 4 PER in the league and got out scored by Jason Terry in the Finals and lost.

Hope you can get over it.

[Axe]

Well according to op, apparently even bill russell can't be in the goat conversations too. Simply because he has one finals loss, in 1958 which was against the st. louis hawks. So sad that they'd merely consider it a black mark, despite him having eleven titles under his arsenal.

[SouBeachTalents]

Player wins 7 straight titles and becomes the new GOAT. The next year loses in the finals and is no longer the GOAT. Wins six more straight. Still not the GOAT. That one loss is disqualifying. Doesn't matter if he has more than 2x as many rings as MJ, can't be GOAT because he lost one time in the finals instead of the first round.

TLDR: Kiddlovesnets still eating Elmer's glue in the corner with 3ball.
It's just an indefensibly stupid position, I wanna see him try to rationalize that 13 titles is worse than 6 because of one Finals loss :lol It will amuse me to see him twist himself into a pretzel than just admit he was wrong

[8Ball]

It's just an indefensibly stupid position, I wanna see him try to rationalize that 13 titles is worse than 6 because of one Finals loss :lol It will amuse me to see him twist himself into a pretzel than just admit he was wrong

Kiddlovenets takes on the most retarded arguments ever.

Tom Brady isn't the GOAT because he lost 3 superbowls but won 7.
If you win 10 championships but lose 1 time in the finals you can't be goat?

Indefensible position but he takes it anyway. Jordan stans low IQ.

[hateraid]

OP claims to be objective and NOT a Jordan stan
:roll:

[Kiddlovesnets]

Kiddlovenets takes on the most retarded arguments ever.

Tom Brady isn't the GOAT because he lost 3 superbowls but won 7.
If you win 10 championships but lose 1 time in the finals you can't be goat?

Indefensible position but he takes it anyway. Jordan stans low IQ.

Its different sports and you cant compare single elimination games to best of 7 series. Luck can play a big factor in victory for one game, but luck wont help you win 4 out of 7. If you lose in a single game, it aint enough to tell you are worse than your opponents. But if you are defeated 4 times in a 7 games series, its clear that you just aint good enough. Lebron didnt just lose 6 finals series, he never even pushed one to game 7, he was defeated comprehensively. Yeah you are the low IQ stan here, a rational fan wont be comparing different sports. Most sports dont have GOAT winning at least 5 titles while going undefeated in the finals.

[8Ball]

A 100% Finals winning percentage is a NECESSARY condition for GOAT

If Bill Russell wins 15 championships but loses 1 he can't be the GOAT.

What college did you go go? You never learned how to think properly.

[Kiddlovesnets]

If Bill Russell wins 15 championships but loses 1 he can't be the GOAT.

What college did you go go? You never learned how to think properly.

Well Bill Russell isnt GOAT despite going 11/12 anyway, so I dont know what point you are trying to make. You seem drunk and frustrated.
:facepalm

[dbugz]

MJ the unanimous GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[8Ball]

Well Bill Russell isnt GOAT despite going 11/12 anyway, so I dont know what point you are trying to make. You seem drunk and frustrated.
:facepalm

Of course you don't know what argument I am trying to make.

You need simple concepts explained to you.

If someone wins 20 out of 21 championships they can't be the GOAT using your criteria.

Your criteria is rubbish.

You wouldn't have so much trouble with basic thinking if you went to college.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Of course you don't know what argument I am trying to make.

You need simple concepts explained to you.

If someone wins 20 out of 21 championships they can't be the GOAT using your criteria.

Your criteria is rubbish.

You wouldn't have so much trouble with basic thinking if you went to college.

You are just trolling and you have absolutely no valid argument to make, as I've learned from your posts in many different threads. Winning 20 out of 21? Sorry such a player doesnt exist so your point isnt valid, you have to use what already exists in current NBA. And nope Lebron is never going to be GOAT, he has 6 losses already, not one, not two, not even three...

[8Ball]

If someone wins 20/21 finals that player can't be the GOAT from your criteria.

Your criteria is rubbish.

You created a criteria for all past and future players. Now you realize your criteria doesn't apply. Too bad I am your intellectual superior.

You can reference this post the next time we talk about 100% finals percentage rubbish.

[Kiddlovesnets]

If someone wins 20/21 finals that player can't be the GOAT from your criteria.

Your criteria is rubbish.

You created a criteria for all past and future players. Now you realize your criteria doesn't apply. Too bad I am your intellectual superior.

You can reference this post the next time we talk about 100% finals percentage rubbish.

Embiid and Giannis can still be GOAT if they won, just because Lebron isnt qualified for GOAT conversation doesnt mean there aint anyone else.

[SouBeachTalents]

So Jimmy Butler leading his underdog team to the Finals, averaging a highly efficient 26/8/10 and having literally 2 of the greatest performances in Finals history is no longer qualified to be GOAT

But Giannis averaging 22/11/5 (on much worse efficiency) in a massive upset in the 2nd round is still eligible to be GOAT

This is what the OP is arguing folks :lol

[jlip]

Below is a list of players typically in the top 10 all time (in no particular order). Beside their names are the seasons in which their teams had losing seasons. As you can see, Michael Jordan is, by far, the greatest loser among the top 10 all time greatest players. It's honestly not even close.

MJ lost the ability to be GOAT after his first season in 1985 by ending the season with a losing record. Any attempts to salvage his GOAT candidacy or surpass others in the GOAT conversation was totally lost after a third consecutive non winning season in 1987, especially considering other GOAT candidates before him such as Russell, Bird, and Magic, and Duncan after him, were multiple MVPs and never came close to a losing season in their careers. Going 6/6 in the Finals after he was finally (pun intended) able to put it together is nice, but it is nullified by him being the greatest loser among the top 10 all time greatest players. It's time we stop even talking about him as a GOAT candidate, because nothing he can do now will ever erase the abundance of losing seasons. (Isn't that how this works?)

Bill Russell- N/A
Wilt Chamberlain- 1963, 1965
Kareem Abdul Jabbar- 1975, 1976
Magic Johnson- N/A
Larry Bird- N/A
Michael Jordan- 1985, 1986, 1987, 2002, 2003
Shaquille O'Neal- 2008 w/Heat
Tim Duncan- N/A
Lebron James- 2004, 2019
Hakeem Olajuwon- 2000

[Kiddlovesnets]

Below is a list of players typically in the top 10 all time (in no particular order). Beside their names are the seasons in which their teams had losing seasons. As you can see, Michael Jordan is, by far, the greatest loser among the top 10 all time greatest players. It's honestly not even close.

MJ lost the ability to be GOAT after his first season in 1985 by ending the season with a losing record. Any attempts to salvage his GOAT candidacy or surpass others in the GOAT conversation was totally lost after a third consecutive non winning season in 1987, especially considering other GOAT candidates before him such as Russell, Bird, and Magic, and Duncan after him, were multiple MVPs and never came close to a losing season in their careers. Going 6/6 in the Finals after he was finally (pun intended) able to put it together is nice, but it is nullified by him being the greatest loser among the top 10 all time greatest players. It's time we stop even talking about him as a GOAT candidate, because nothing he can do now will ever erase the abundance of losing seasons. (Isn't that how this works?)

Bill Russell- N/A
Wilt Chamberlain- 1963, 1965
Kareem Abdul Jabbar- 1975, 1976
Magic Johnson- N/A
Larry Bird- N/A
Michael Jordan- 1985, 1986, 1987, 2002, 2003
Shaquille O'Neal- 2008 w/Heat
Tim Duncan- N/A
Lebron James- 2004, 2019
Hakeem Olajuwon- 2000

This is silly because you have to consider the rosters of each team. Taking a team projected to win 15-20 games to win 35-40 games, is an accomplishment. While taking a team good enough to win 60-65 games to 50-55 wins, is disappointment. See this chart and you will understand how MJ and Lebron perform based on talent levels of their rosters:

https://i.ibb.co/s15GhMX/MJ-vs-Lebron-comparison.png

[8Ball]

Below is a list of players typically in the top 10 all time (in no particular order). Beside their names are the seasons in which their teams had losing seasons. As you can see, Michael Jordan is, by far, the greatest loser among the top 10 all time greatest players. It's honestly not even close.

MJ lost the ability to be GOAT after his first season in 1985 by ending the season with a losing record. Any attempts to salvage his GOAT candidacy or surpass others in the GOAT conversation was totally lost after a third consecutive non winning season in 1987, especially considering other GOAT candidates before him such as Russell, Bird, and Magic, and Duncan after him, were multiple MVPs and never came close to a losing season in their careers. Going 6/6 in the Finals after he was finally (pun intended) able to put it together is nice, but it is nullified by him being the greatest loser among the top 10 all time greatest players. It's time we stop even talking about him as a GOAT candidate, because nothing he can do now will ever erase the abundance of losing seasons. (Isn't that how this works?)

Bill Russell- N/A
Wilt Chamberlain- 1963, 1965
Kareem Abdul Jabbar- 1975, 1976
Magic Johnson- N/A
Larry Bird- N/A
Michael Jordan- 1985, 1986, 1987, 2002, 2003
Shaquille O'Neal- 2008 w/Heat
Tim Duncan- N/A
Lebron James- 2004, 2019
Hakeem Olajuwon- 2000

:applause:

This is a good post.

[Kiddlovesnets]

:applause:

Imagine missing the playoffs 5x in your career.

Jordan standard.

MJ never missed playoffs with the Bulls, while Lebron missed playoffs already 3 times(2x Cleveland, 1x Lakers).

[hateraid]

The criteria for OP is that the GOAT needs a 100% winning percentage in a finals. This means Brady cannot be considered GOAT. PERIOD. OP, it's not a buffet where you can pick and choose what you want and your plate. If you can't be consistent then lock this thread up

[Kiddlovesnets]

The criteria for OP is that the GOAT needs a 100% winning percentage in a finals. This means Brady cannot be considered GOAT. PERIOD. OP, it's not a buffet where you can pick and choose what you want and your plate. If you can't be consistent then lock this thread up

We talking about NBA, not NFL. I already mentioned this before, you cant compare across different sports, the criteria are different. You are a moron if you think loss in single elimination games is the same as loss in a 7 games series.

[hateraid]

We talking about NBA, not NFL. I already mentioned this before, you cant compare across different sports, the criteria are different. You are a moron if you think loss in single elimination games is the same as loss in a 7 games series.

Again retard. This is not a buffet. You cannot just pick what fits on your agenda. If you make a statement, stick to it.
Jesus Christ OP gets more delusional everyday. Take a break idiot before you die of a heart attack.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Again retard. This is not a buffet. You cannot just pick what fits on your agenda. If you make a statement, stick to it.
Jesus Christ OP gets more delusional everyday. Take a break idiot before you die of a heart attack.

Nope you are retarded, you cant see the difference between single elimination tournaments and best of 7 series. What a joke you are, and you have the guts to tell other people they are idiots when you are worse than them.
:roll:

[hateraid]

Mods, just ban OP. At this point it's just spam. Cut the root and the weeds will go away

[Kiddlovesnets]

Mods, just ban OP. At this point it's just spam. Cut the root and the weeds will go away

Who do you think you are? Why should mods be listening to a troll like you? You are spamming my thread now and Id politely ask you to leave me alone before I will report your shit post. Id rather keep the discussion civil rather than you jumping in and using personal attacks to digress from the actual topic.
:facepalm

[hateraid]

Nope you are retarded, you cant see the difference between single elimination tournaments and best of 7 series. What a joke you are, and you have the guts to tell other people they are idiots when you are worse than them.
:roll:

It's sports dumbass and if you make a claim you stick to it.
I'm serious, have you ever been checked for a mental health disorder? You need to do so ASAP. You're Jordan obsession has made you a harm to yourself. Serious, get help soon. You will die early

[hateraid]

Who do you think you are? Why should mods be listening to a troll like you? You are spamming my thread now and Id politely ask you to leave me alone before I will report your shit post. Id rather keep the discussion civil rather than you jumping in and using personal attacks to digress from the actual topic.
:facepalm

You spam the same anti-Jordan/LeBron hate everyday to the point it doesn't create positive discussion. It's spam. Period.

[hateraid]

OP thinks he's civil and objective? :roll:
Nothing you post daily is civil and objective. You consistently cram your delusion Jordan obsession down people's throats to the point people intentionally troll you. You are the furthest thing from objective. Yet you have the audacity to call me a troll? Lol. I'm just a voice.of reason saving you from a mental breakdown.
Dedicating your life to one sole purpose that has no monetary gain is physcotic. You dude are a physco. GET HELP

[Kiddlovesnets]

You spam the same anti-Jordan/LeBron hate everyday to the point it doesn't create positive discussion. It's spam. Period.

I dont spam the hate, its the people who made threads to talk shit about MJ that I have to respond to. And just as we speak, Lebron23 is spamming again on the forum for his anti-MJ propaganda.
:lol


OP thinks he's civil and objective? :roll:
Nothing you post daily is civil and objective. You consistently cram your delusion Jordan obsession down people's throats to the point people intentionally troll you. You are the furthest thing from objective. Yet you have the audacity to call me a troll? Lol. I'm just a voice.of reason saving you from a mental breakdown.
Dedicating your life to one sole purpose that has no monetary gain is physcotic. You dude are a physco. GET HELP

Civil or objective can be a relative term. Compared to you, yes I am civil and objective since I use fact and I argue in respectful tone. You just talk nonsense and when things dont work out, you use personal attacks.

[hateraid]

Is OP sportsjames23? I wonder where that poster went. It's got to be him. Unless sportsjames23 died, in which case OP should learn by example what irrational Jordan obsession can do

[hateraid]

I dont spam the hate, its the people who made threads to talk shit about MJ that I have to respond to. And just as we speak, Lebron23 is spamming again on the forum for his anti-MJ propaganda.
:lol
You hate Lebron. Therefore you ARE spamming. Do you realize people don't talk shit about MJ, it's you MJ stans that think any Lebron praise thread is a direct attack on MJ. Yet you MJ stans DIRECTLY attack Lebron due to your insecurities.
Point out where Lebron23 is spamming anti-MJ nonsense. He hasn't. He supports Lebron, you MJ stans think EVERYTHING is anti-MJ if you don't suck MJ's dick




Civil or objective can be a relative term. Compared to you, yes I am civil and objective since I use fact and I argue in respectful tone. You just talk nonsense and when things dont work out, you use personal attacks.

:roll:
Civil and objective? You went into a thread asking to be indifferent and did the exact OPPOSITE. You're the furthest thing. And when idiots like you do that you deserve a good spanking. You're delusional. And you will keep being the wrong end of a lashing when you keep it up. Nothing you post is objective. You went into an OBJECTIVE thread and posted something SUBJECTIVE. I don't think you know the definition of objective

So seek help. You clearly have a mental disorder. I'm gonna do the humanitarian thing and keep on you until you do.

[Kiddlovesnets]

You hate Lebron. Therefore you ARE spamming.

Nah I dont hate lebron, just his stans need to stop comparing Lebron to MJ and label him as GOAT. Lebron has no GOAT case, his ceiling is #2 all time.

[AirBonner]

Bill Russell won chips 80% of his career. Goat standard

[mehyaM24]

kiddslovenets doesn't even present a case. screaming "6-0!" is not an argument. bill russell played in 12 finals and only lost once - clearly a better feat.

[hateraid]

Nah I dont hate lebron, just his stans need to stop comparing Lebron to MJ and label him as GOAT. Lebron has no GOAT case, his ceiling is #2 all time.

If you were objective and civil then fans who support that should not be an issue. It's you and people cut in your same cloth that are the problem. You are the very definition of irrational

[SouBeachTalents]

Bill Russell won chips 80% of his career. Goat standard
But he lost one Finals, so now he's got less of a chance at GOAT than Joakim Noah :(

[hateraid]

kiddslovenets doesn't even present a case. screaming "6-0!" is not an argument. bill russell played in 12 finals and only lost once - clearly a better feat.

Yet he claims to be objective. He also doesn't realize that he spams that shit everyday and refuses to acknowledge what a troll he is. It's bizarre

[hateraid]

But he lost one Finals, so now he's got less of a chance at GOAT than Joakim Noah :(

Also Brady doesn't count because it's one and done.

[SouBeachTalents]

Also Brady doesn't count because it's one and done.
And having 5 losing seasons like Jordan > losing one Finals

[Kiddlovesnets]

And having 5 losing seasons like Jordan > losing one Finals

The first 3 years at bulls, they were projected to be a lottery team. MJ was the only reason they even made playoffs:

https://i.ibb.co/s15GhMX/MJ-vs-Lebron-comparison.png

The 2 Wizards years don’t count. When a lebronstan bring up Mj in his Wizards years, he already loses the arguments as he has nothing useful to add to discussion.

[SouBeachTalents]

The first 3 years at bulls, they were projected to be a lottery team. MJ was the only reason they even made playoffs:

https://i.ibb.co/s15GhMX/MJ-vs-Lebron-comparison.png

The 2 Wizards years don’t count. When a lebronstan bring up Mj in his Wizards years, he already loses the arguments as he has nothing useful to add to discussion.
This chart attempts to argue getting swept in the first round is a bigger accomplishment than beating a 73 win team in the Finals

[hateraid]

This chart attempts to argue getting swept in the first round is a bigger accomplishment than beating a 73 win team in the Finals

Does OP realize if he spam nonsense he's gonna get it pointed out?

[ShawkFactory]

This chart attempts to argue getting swept in the first round is a bigger accomplishment than beating a 73 win team in the Finals

And it states that the 2020 championship is Lebron's biggest accomplishment as far as winning titles go.

It also tells us that people should NOT be faulting Lebron for losing in the ECF in 2009, as the only reason they had HCA was because of a massive over-achievement in the regular season.

[mehyaM24]

And it states that the 2020 championship is Lebron's biggest accomplishment as far as winning titles go.

It also tells us that people should NOT be faulting Lebron for losing in the ECF in 2009, as the only reason they had HCA was because of a massive over-achievement in the regular season.

so many implications. no room to backpedal though :oldlol:

[8Ball]

This chart attempts to argue getting swept in the first round is a bigger accomplishment than beating a 73 win team in the Finals

Low IQ basketball fans use very low IQ charts.

[8Ball]

Yet he claims to be objective. He also doesn't realize that he spams that shit everyday and refuses to acknowledge what a troll he is. It's bizarre

He's been spamming a lot of 3ball insanity recently. Ever since Kyrie joined his team its like the fans went full Flat Earther.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

A significant piece to Mike's legacy, yeah why not? Right beside his actual numbers, individual accolades and intangibles.

To be a GOAT candidate being undefeated in the finals aint a necessity though. That's no-nothing casual talk.

[hateraid]

A significant piece to Mike's legacy, yeah why not? Right beside his actual numbers, individual accolades and intangibles.

To be a GOAT candidate being undefeated in the finals aint a necessity though. That's no-nothing casual talk.

:applause:

This is being objective ladies and gentlemen. 6/6 is just a talking point. Not a definitive.

[Kiddlovesnets]

This chart attempts to argue getting swept in the first round is a bigger accomplishment than beating a 73 win team in the Finals

Except the Warriors were nowhere near as good as a 73 wins team, they simply overachieved in regular season. They struggled against 55 wins Thunder in WCF and lost to 57 wins Cavs, its not like they cruised through the western conference and only lost to Lebron. The 16 Warriors simply lacked the talent from their rosters for playoffs success, they were more like a 56 wins team in playoffs.

Since the 21st century, regular season records mean little to nothing for a team's title odds. The 73 wins Warriors in 2016 were nowhere near as good as 58 wins Warriors in 2018 and 57 wins Warriors in 2019. Just because Lebron beat a team that won 73 games in regular season, doesnt mean its a tremendous accomplishment. The 73 wins was a regular season record, regular season. They went 15-9 in playoffs, they aint dominant in playoffs before or after facing Lebron's Cavs.

If anything, the pre-season odds showed the Cavs in 2016 were the better team, it was a ring or bust year anyway:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_preseason_odds.html

[hateraid]

Except the Warriors were nowhere near as good as a 73 wins team, they simply overachieved in regular season. They struggled against 55 wins Thunder in WCF and lost to 57 wins Cavs, its not like they cruised through the western conference and only lost to Lebron. The 16 Warriors simply lacked the talent from their rosters for playoffs success, they were more like a 56 wins team in playoffs.

Since the 21st century, regular season records mean little to nothing for a team's title odds. The 73 wins Warriors in 2016 were nowhere near as good as 58 wins Warriors in 2018 and 57 wins Warriors in 2019. Just because Lebron beat a team that won 73 games in regular season, doesnt mean its a tremendous accomplishment. The 73 wins was a regular season record, regular season. They went 15-9 in playoffs, they aint dominant in playoffs before or after facing Lebron's Cavs.

If anything, the pre-season odds showed the Cavs in 2016 were the better team, it was a ring or bust year anyway:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2016_preseason_odds.html

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 defense.. lottery
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 defense.. nearly won title

Translation. Your post sucks.

[hateraid]

Funny how the 73 win Warrior "overachieved" in a league where LeBron stacked his team and the 72 Bulls team did it in the most watered down era.
But kiddlovesnets is delusional and no doubt 3ball is gonna post some nonsense wall of stats with no context in response.

[Kiddlovesnets]

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 defense.. lottery
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 defense.. nearly won title

Translation. Your post sucks.
Lol what’s the point you are trying to make? That Zydrunas was a better player than Pippen, and yet Lebron failed to make playoffs while MJ made ECF? Doesn’t this just prove that Lebron in 2005 ain’t as good as MJ in 1990? Are you drunk?
:facepalm


Funny how the 73 win Warrior "overachieved" in a league where LeBron stacked his team and the 72 Bulls team did it in the most watered down era.

It’s not rocket science, you judge by their playoffs performance to see if they were indeed as good as their regular season record suggest, or they overachieve in regular season. Just like the 2015 Hawks which won 60 games, they struggled in the first 2 rounds of the playoffs, needing 6 games each to advance to ECF, and then they got swept. At this point we all knew the Hawks just overachieved in regular season, they were nowhere near as good as a 60 wins team.

Same technique can be used to analyst the 73 wins Warriors. If they were as good as their regular season record suggested they should at least breeze through the west. However, they fell behind 1-3 to 55 wins thunder and almost lost in WCF. It’s not surprising that when they went up against the 57wins Cavs, it was finally too much. At this point we know that the Warriors regular season record aint accurate representation of their actual talent level in playoffs, they were as good as a 56 wins team in the 2016 playoffs.

And nope the 90s era was about as good as this era, both weaker than the 00s. Lebronstans rant how strong this era is because their idol always loses in NBA finals, MJ always beat his opponents so they look weaker than they actually were.

[hateraid]

Lol what’s the point you are trying to make? That Zydrunas was a better player than Pippen, and yet Lebron failed to make playoffs while MJ made ECF? Doesn’t this just prove that Lebron in 2005 ain’t as good as MJ in 1990? Are you drunk?
:facepalm

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 defense.. lottery
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 defense.. nearly won title

Is this same senseless rambling I thought you'd understand.

[SATAN]

Hey OP, you're making Jordan stans look like morons. Just saying.

[Kiddlovesnets]

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 defense.. lottery
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 defense.. nearly won title

Is this same senseless rambling I thought you'd understand.

I can’t read the mind of an idiot like you, you don’t even know what you are talking about so why should I bother interpreting what’s going on behind your shitty brain?

[hateraid]

I can’t read the mind of an idiot like you, you don’t even know what you are talking about so why should I bother interpreting what’s going on behind your shitty brain?

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 defense.. lottery
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 defense.. nearly won title

[Ainosterhaspie]

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 defense.. lottery
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 defense.. nearly won title
That's a compelling point, but have you considered the following?

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 defense.. lottery
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 defense.. nearly won title

[Axe]

I can’t read the mind of an idiot like you, you don’t even know what you are talking about so why should I bother interpreting what’s going on behind your shitty brain?
You claim to be a nets fan but stan mj so much.

You sir are beyond pathetic.

[light]

I dont understand why suddenly there are threads for GOAT debate, but understand one thing. MJ the reigning GOAT, has a 100% winning percentage in NBA Finals. He was never defeated in a Finals series, and he won all the FMVPs. In order for a player to match or surpass MJ, the perfect finals record is a necessary(but not sufficient) condition. Among the players who have won FMVPs in the last 10 years, none of them still has a theoretical chance to surpass MJ as they have all lost at least once in the Finals. Lebron may be winning his 4th title/FMVP soon, its a great accomplishment but he has lost the chance to surpass MJ since 2007 when he got swept in the Finals. Duncan was the closest to the GOAT status but the loss in 2013 made him ineligible too. Its time we just end the GOAT debate for a while, until we see a new multi-FMVP player without losing in the Finals. This may take years or decades, definitely not now.

Reminder: Winning at least 1 title OUTSIDE of an expansion era is a NECESSARY condition for GOAT

And Michael Jordan has none.

[Axe]

Reminder: Winning at least 1 title OUTSIDE of an expansion era is a NECESSARY condition for GOAT

And Michael Jordan has none.
You're being plain crazy, lord voldemort. By that lame logic, hakeem doesn't get credit for his two rings too.

[8Ball]

Reminder: Winning at least 1 title OUTSIDE of an expansion era is a NECESSARY condition for GOAT

And Michael Jordan has none.

Using kidd's logic against him.

He too dumb to realize it.

[warriorfan]

Lebron got his legacy snatched out of his hands by Jason Terry.

Yikes.

[8Ball]

Lebron got his legacy snatched out of his hands by Jason Terry.

Yikes.

0 finals mvp votes for Curry.

Curry wish he had a legacy to begin with.

[hateraid]

That's a compelling point, but have you considered the following?

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 defense.. lottery
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 defense.. nearly won title

I can counter that with this

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 defense.. lottery
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 defense.. nearly won title

[Axe]

I can counter that with this

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 defense.. lottery
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 defense.. nearly won title
:lol

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron got his legacy snatched out of his hands by Jason Terry.

Yikes.

Also Tony Parker, Kawhi Leonard, Iguadala, Kevin Durant, Dirk Nowitzki, Dwight Howard.