Why does Lebron’s 2020 championship count towards his legacy?

[theman93]

If Lebron’s Finals losses (namely 2007, 2014, 2015, 2017, and 2018) don’t count against his legacy because his team was so outmatched, them how can his 2020 Finals championship count toward his legacy considering how much his Lakers outmatched the Heat?

The only way his 2020 championship is a benefit to his legacy is if you hold him accountable for all 6 of his Finals losses.

[RRR3]

He had to beat other teams besides the Heat...

[light]

If Lebron’s Finals losses (namely 2007, 2014, 2015, 2017, and 2018) don’t count against his legacy because his team was so outmatched, them how can his 2020 Finals championship count toward his legacy considering how much his Lakers outmatched the Heat?

The only way his 2020 championship is a benefit to his legacy is if you hold him accountable for all 6 of his Finals losses.

Doesn't really matter. LeBron is the greatest basketball player that ever lived with or without any titles. IMO, he was officially the GOAT starting in 2009 - by that point I had never seen a basketball player better than him.

[Real14]

He had to beat other teams besides the Heat...

Rockets, and Blazers had no chance with their rosters. Nuggets were too young as well.

[K Xerxes]

Doesn't really matter. LeBron is the greatest basketball player that ever lived with or without any titles. IMO, he was officially the GOAT starting in 2009 - by that point I had never seen a basketball player better than him.

Then you must have started watching basketball in 2009?

[Real14]

Doesn't really matter. LeBron is the greatest basketball player that ever lived with or without any titles. IMO, he was officially the GOAT starting in 2009 - by that point I had never seen a basketball player better than him.

Reported for being mentally insane.

[theman93]

He had to beat other teams besides the Heat...

And?

[SouBeachTalents]

What an idiotic thread :oldlol: Let me guess, only Finals losses get held against you right

[theman93]

What an idiotic thread :oldlol: Let me guess, only Finals losses get held against you right

What an idiotic assumption. No. Wins are wins and losses are losses. He is 4-6 in the Finals. No asterisks.

[SouBeachTalents]

What an idiotic assumption. No. Wins are wins and losses are losses. He is 4-6 in the Finals. No asterisks.
So then this flawless logic can be applied to literally everybody. Why do Jordan's titles count towards his legacy but his numerous first round exits and losses to the Pistons don't?

[theman93]

So then this flawless logic can be applied to literally everybody. Why do Jordan's titles count towards his legacy but his numerous first round exits and losses to the Pistons don't?

They do count towards his legacy. That's the point. You can't logically place arbitrary asterisks.

[J Shuttlesworth]

This one cements him as top 1 or 2 all time to 98% of bball fans

[theman93]

This one cements him as top 1 or 2 all time to 98% of bball fans

2009, 2011, and 2014 are such colossal failures to his legacy that just don't exist on Jordan's legacy. Another chip doesn't erase history. We can compare accolades, feats, and awards all day long but MJ just doesn't have failures the likes of Lebron.

[Lebron23]

2009, 2011, and 2014 are such colossal failures to his legacy that just don't exist on Jordan's legacy. Another chip doesn't erase history. We can compare accolades, feats, and awards all day long but MJ just doesn't have failures the likes of Lebron.

1-3 vs Badboys Pistons

[theman93]

1-3 vs Badboys Pistons

1-3 vs GS

[RRR3]

1-3 vs GS
GS would sweep those Pistons teams...

[ScoopShot2020]

Lebron is great and if he was in MJ's shoes, he would have traded rookie Pippen out of Chicago plus half of the Bulls players for his buddy Charles Barkley. If that doesn't work out, I bet Lebron would trade himself to the Rockets and play point guard for Olajuwon. MJ simply don't have great basketball IQ and vision like Lebron. Had MJ traded rookie Pippen or traded himself out to join other great players, we wont be having this argument. He could have won maybe 11 straight championships and nobody would say Lebron is the better GOAT than MJ.

MJ is the better GOAT because he stayed with the Bulls and trained Pippen to be a great player? I didnt see him doing that with Kwame Brown, his own no 1 draft pick who is way more athletic and with better skills than rookie Pippen.

[theman93]

GS would sweep those Pistons teams...

No they wouldn't, and especially not in the context of era. The bottom line is they both went 1-3 with Lebron's record against GS at 7-15 and MJ's record against Detroit at 10-12.

[8Ball]

GS would sweep those Pistons teams...

The years those Pistons made Jordan cry they didn't have any players that made the All-NBA team those years.

Golden State had 3 All NBA players in 2016 and 2017.


LOL losing to Pistons 3 years in a row with no ALL-NBA players on it.

[8Ball]

No they wouldn't, and especially not in the context of era. The bottom line is they both went 1-3 with Lebron's record against GS at 7-15 and MJ's record against Detroit at 10-12.

The last time LeBron played against a similar Detroit team with no ALL-NBA players was in the mid 2000s, and he stomped them.

[red1]

I'm considering counting it as two rings. this is the longest season ever, and the hardest road™ overall

[theman93]

The last time LeBron played against a similar Detroit team with no ALL-NBA players was in the mid 2000s, and he stomped them.

We both know that's nonsense. In 2007 Detroit was 3 years removed from their title, compared to in 1991 Detroit coming off back to back titles. The 07 Pistons had 1 All-Defensive player, compared the 91 Pistons 2 All-Defensive Players. The 07 Pistons had 0 HoFers, compared to the the 91 Pistons 3 HoFers.

It took Lebron 6 games and an average margin of victory of 3.6 ppg to get through a lesser version 2007 of the Pistons. MJ swept a greater version of the Pistons with an average margin of victory of 11.5 ppg.

[theman93]

I'm considering counting it as two rings. this is the longest season ever, and the hardest road™ overall

I'm considering 2011 and 2014 as a total of 4 Finals losses. The biggest shrink job ever for an all-time great and the biggest blowout in NBA Finals history. Yikes.

[Carbine]

The years those Pistons made Jordan cry they didn't have any players that made the All-NBA team those years.

Golden State had 3 All NBA players in 2016 and 2017.


LOL losing to Pistons 3 years in a row with no ALL-NBA players on it.

Ive seen a lot of dumb things said over the past few weeks but downplaying the Pistons ranks at the very top.

They were back to back champs (something the 80s Celtics never did) and made 3 straight finals.

They were an all time great group that should be judged upon that and only that stat, not something like how many all NBA players are on the team.

[RogueBorg]

If Lebron’s Finals losses (namely 2007, 2014, 2015, 2017, and 2018) don’t count against his legacy because his team was so outmatched, them how can his 2020 Finals championship count toward his legacy considering how much his Lakers outmatched the Heat?

The only way his 2020 championship is a benefit to his legacy is if you hold him accountable for all 6 of his Finals losses.

OP makes a great point....I want answers.

[AirBonner]

Lebron is great and if he was in MJ's shoes, he would have traded rookie Pippen out of Chicago plus half of the Bulls players for his buddy Charles Barkley. If that doesn't work out, I bet Lebron would trade himself to the Rockets and play point guard for Olajuwon. MJ simply don't have great basketball IQ and vision like Lebron. Had MJ traded rookie Pippen or traded himself out to join other great players, we wont be having this argument. He could have won maybe 11 straight championships and nobody would say Lebron is the better GOAT than MJ.

MJ is the better GOAT because he stayed with the Bulls and trained Pippen to be a great player? I didnt see him doing that with Kwame Brown, his own no 1 draft pick who is way more athletic and with better skills than rookie Pippen.

Lmao Ordan stans full melt

[RogueBorg]

So then this flawless logic can be applied to literally everybody. Why do Jordan's titles count towards his legacy but his numerous first round exits and losses to the Pistons don't?

This isn't about Jordan

[Kiddlovesnets]

This title secured his spot in top 5 all time and hes now eligible for the #2 GOAT right below MJ. Still debatable whether hes better or worse than Kareem and Magic, but he now has a case for top 2.

[RogueBorg]

6 chips in 15 years>4 chips in 17

I know math might be hard for some of you

[theman93]

The years those Pistons made Jordan cry they didn't have any players that made the All-NBA team those years.

Golden State had 3 All NBA players in 2016 and 2017.


LOL losing to Pistons 3 years in a row with no ALL-NBA players on it.

Yeah this is an awful take. It is a team game measured by winning, not how many All-NBA players a team can collect.

[K Xerxes]

This title secured his spot in top 5 all time and hes now eligible for the #2 GOAT right below MJ. Still debatable whether hes better or worse than Kareem and Magic, but he now has a case for top 2.

There's really no debate with Magic anymore. LeBron has better peak/longevity stats. More accolades (MVPs and FMVPs). More impact on the court. Better scorer and defender. Similar leadership effect. Magic only has playmaking and one ring over LeBron.

[8Ball]

Yeah this is an awful take. It is a team game measured by winning, not how many All-NBA players a team can collect.

Some teams are better than others and that's dictated by how many games they win and quality of the star players. What a novel concept.

[theman93]

6 chips in 15 years>4 chips in 17

I know math might be hard for some of you

Not only that, but we can’t count Lebron’s 4th championship since the Lebron stans will not count Lebron’s Finals losses.

So it’s even worse... 6 chips in 15 years>3 chips in 17 years

[theman93]

Some teams are better than others and that's dictated by how many games they win and quality of the star players. What a novel concept.

Detroit boasted a multitude of HoFers, had better individual defenders (All-Defensive), and a better team defense. Going strictly by All-NBA players, which is what you did, is a retard take. The Bad Boy Pistons were not as good as the 2017 and 2018 Warriors, but they were better than the 2015 and 2016 Warriors, so the overall challenge was equal. MJ and Lebron both ended up with a 1-3 series record, however, MJ ended up with a better individual game record of 10-12 compared to Lebron's 7-15 record.

If 1-3 against the Pistons is a major stain on Jordan, then 1-3 against Golden State is a major stain on Lebron. However, neither of those stains compare to the colossal failures of Lebron's 2011 disappearing act and Lebron's 2014 all-time historical blow out.

[Lebron23]

Coach, you're having a mental breakdown.

[RogueBorg]

1-3 vs GS

https://media1.tenor.com/images/5b7639d44761d30acb49053c85a91cc8/tenor.gif?itemid=7914063

[Kiddlovesnets]

There's really no debate with Magic anymore. LeBron has better peak/longevity stats. More accolades (MVPs and FMVPs). More impact on the court. Better scorer and defender. Similar leadership effect. Magic only has playmaking and one ring over LeBron.

Magic still wins more titles and have a much higher winning percentages in the Finals compared to Lebron.

[8Ball]

Detroit boasted a multitude of HoFers, had better individual defenders (All-Defensive), and a better team defense. Going strictly by All-NBA players, which is what you did, is a retard take. The Bad Boy Pistons were not as good as the 2017 and 2018 Warriors, but they were better than the 2015 and 2016 Warriors, so the overall challenge was equal. MJ and Lebron both ended up with a 1-3 series record, however, MJ ended up with a better individual game record of 10-12 compared to Lebron's 7-15 record.

If 1-3 against the Pistons is a major stain on Jordan, then 1-3 against Golden State is a major stain on Lebron. However, neither of those stains compare to the colossal failures of Lebron's 2011 disappearing act and Lebron's 2014 all-time historical blow out.

Which bad boy pistons team won 67 or 73 wins? Which the Warriors did in 2015 and 2016.

None.

Bad Boy Pistons = Mid 2000s Detroit Pistons.

[theman93]

Which bad boy pistons team won 67 or 73 wins? Which the Warriors did in 2015 and 2016.

None.

Bad Boy Pistons = Mid 2000s Detroit Pistons.

Only retards hold the regular season in a higher regard than the playoffs.

[Spurs m8]

Doesn't really matter. LeBron is the greatest basketball player that ever lived with or without any titles. IMO, he was officially the GOAT starting in 2009 - by that point I had never seen a basketball player better than him.

Omfg hahahhahahahahahahahahaha

Fvck

Hahahaahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahaah

[8Ball]

Only retards hold the regular season in a higher regard than the playoffs.

Which bad boy pistons team won 67 or 73 wins?

The answer is zero by the way.

Compare those Pistons team to their contemporaries, mid 2000s Detroit Pistons.

[FireDavidKahn]

If the Heat are so bad then what does that say about the MVP of the league who got dominated by the Heat???

[theman93]

Which bad boy pistons team won 67 or 73 wins?

The answer is zero by the way.

Compare those Pistons team to their contemporaries, mid 2000s Detroit Pistons.

By this logic, the 67 win 2007 Mavericks that got bounced by the 8th seeded Warriors are better than Shaq and Kobe's 2001 and 2002 Lakers. This is an awful take, please get help

[SouBeachTalents]

By this logic, the 67 win 2007 Mavericks that got bounced by the 8th seeded Warriors are better than Shaq and Kobe's 2001 and 2002 Lakers. This is an awful take, please get help
Except those Warrior teams were 1-2 plays away from b2b titles

[theman93]

Except those Warrior teams were 1-2 plays away from b2b titles

And lost after blowing a 3-1 lead.

If regular season wins is the standard an individual is using to determine which team is better then you are going to have inconsistencies all over the place.

[tpols]

That's actually a great point.

His stans will say all the losses dont count but when he beats jimmy butler and tyler herro with KAJ by his side all of a sudden he's the GOAT.

:oldlol:

Too funny.

That's the thing about Kobe and MJ's last rings... shit was close and tense between two juggernauts. That's why they got respect for it.

[Lebron23]

That's actually a great point.

His stans will say all the losses dont count but when he beats jimmy butler and tyler herro with KAJ by his side all of a sudden he's the GOAT.

:oldlol:

Too funny.

That's the thing about Kobe and MJ's last rings... shit was close and tense between two juggernauts. That's why they got respect for it.

I hope someone grab you, and literally put you in the garbage can. You and your opinions are garbage.

[SouBeachTalents]

I hope someone grab you, and literally put you in the garbage can. You and your opinion are garbage.
:roll:

[theman93]

I hope someone grab you, and literally put you in the garbage can. You and your opinions are garbage.

In the garbage can with Lebron's Finals record?

[Lebron23]

In the garbage can with Lebron's Finals record?

With you.

[theman93]

With you.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I'll tell his Finals record hello for you while I'm down there.

Then I'll climb out and bask in the glory of MJ's Finals perfection.

[AirBonner]

Op is pure garbage

[theman93]

Op is pure garbage

OP is pure logic. If you don't count his losses then you can't count this win. Therefore it does nothing for his legacy.

[AirBonner]

OP is pure logic. If you don't count his losses then you can't count this win. Therefore it does nothing for his legacy.

Not making the finals is better

[Axe]

Not making the finals is better
Are you ok

[AirBonner]

Are you ok

Nice dup. Talk to me on your main account when you address me next time

[theman93]

Not making the finals is better

Can we get a doctor in here to help this poor guy?

[AirBonner]

Can we get a doctor in here to help this poor guy?

LeBrons 4th. Where did it hurt you?

[Lebron23]

Can we get a doctor in here to help this poor guy?

Miami heat's modified zone defense would shut down michael jordan. He might average 27 ppg in the regular season, but in the playoffs with his non excistant 3 points range. He might get shutdown like Giannis.

[Stanley Kobrick]

ego altin93. at 5yo he witnessed mj win his final chip

[theman93]

Miami heat's modified zone defense would shut down michael jordan. He might average 27 ppg in the regular season, but in the playoffs with his non excistant 3 points range. He might get shutdown like Giannis.

Wrong. The only thing that would be shut down in a 2010's Heat vs 90's Bulls matchup would be Lebron's mental psyche.

[Axe]

Nice dup. Talk to me on your main account when you address me next time
After you get another probation again. Thanks.

[theman93]

If Lebron's Heat lost to Dirk, a midget, an elderly man, and a 6th man who outplayed him, along with losing in historic fashion the likes we had never seen to an over the hill Spurs team that had 2 of it's main catalysts playing as near 40 year olds, one can only imagine what Jordan's Bulls would do. They would ether them from orbit.

[Spurs m8]

If Lebron's Heat lost to Dirk, a midget, an elderly man, and a 6th man who outplayed him, along with losing in historic fashion the likes we had never seen to an over the hill Spurs team that had 2 of it's main catalysts playing as near 40 year olds, one can only imagine what Jordan's Bulls would do. They would ether them from orbit.

100% sweep.

This clown has been swept multiple times.

Also only survived til game 5 multiple times...by teams worse than the 90s bulls.

[theman93]

100% sweep.

This clown has been swept multiple times.

Also only survived til game 5 multiple times...by teams worse than the 90s bulls.

And saved multiple times from certain defeat by teammates hitting miracle shots.

To put it metaphorically, Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving literally stuck their hand in the coffin and ripped Lebron's lifeless corpse out of it right before it shut. I understand why he needed such help.

[Spurs m8]

And saved multiple times from certain defeat by teammates hitting miracle shots.

To put it metaphorically, Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving literally stuck their hand in the coffin and ripped Lebron's lifeless corpse out of it right before it shut. I understand why he needed such help.

He has benefitted from literally the 2 biggest shots in NBA finals HISTROY.

the funniest part is Ray's came from an offensive rebound from a brick shot by LeCarried himself.
Cant make that shit up.
He attempted the Ray Allen shot....and failed...of course.

[ZenMaster7210]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I'll tell his Finals record hello for you while I'm down there.

Then I'll climb out and bask in the glory of MJ's Finals perfection.

:applause:

[ZenMaster7210]

If Lebron's Heat lost to Dirk, a midget, an elderly man, and a 6th man who outplayed him, along with losing in historic fashion the likes we had never seen to an over the hill Spurs team that had 2 of it's main catalysts playing as near 40 year olds, one can only imagine what Jordan's Bulls would do. They would ether them from orbit.

:applause::oldlol: Keep posting.

[theman93]

He has benefitted from literally the 2 biggest shots in NBA finals HISTROY.

the funniest part is Ray's came from an offensive rebound from a brick shot by LeCarried himself.
Cant make that shit up.
He attempted the Ray Allen shot....and failed...of course.

It's a sad state of affairs for the Lebron stans. The 2020 championship feels like a win, but really it's an L since it forces them to accept all 6 Finals L's, which they wouldn't do before.