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View Full Version : NBC Sports: LeBron winning for 3 teams isn't special when he chose/GM'd the teams



3ball
10-13-2020, 06:23 PM
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Article from NBC Sports

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/lebron-james-winning-three-teams-163204533.html


LeBron James is getting a lot of praise for what people portray as a great achievement, winning championships -- and Finals MVP awards -- for three different NBA teams. But I’m here today to rain on that parade.

The reality of that feat must be tempered by the fact that with those teams, he had the advantage of surrounding himself with players of his choosing -- in most cases, superstars or even Hall of Famers.

He didn’t just play for Miami, Cleveland (on his second tour there) and the Lakers, he served as a de facto general manager.

His moves to different teams were never because he was randomly traded there, but because he chose to join them for the opportunity to have a better team than the one he was previously playing for.

He was ring jumping.

His decision to “take his talents to South Beach” and leave Cleveland was because he could play with other superstars -- D-Wade and Chris Bosh -- who could take the pressure off him.

He returned to his hometown team in Cleveland only when that team had been improved enough to give him a chance to win that he didn’t have the first time around.

Then, he went to Los Angeles for the Lakers -- along with Rich Paul, his lifetime friend who created the player agency Klutch Sports, which has guided clients to play alongside James.

Paul (and certainly James, behind the scenes) forced the deal that sent Anthony Davis to Los Angeles. And he helped Rob Pelinka bolster his reputation as the architect of the Lakers' success by filling half the roster with Klutch Sports clients.

James was constantly upgrading his situation. That’s smart business. But if you want to judge a players’ ability by how much he’s won, you have to take into consideration what went into winning those titles.

There has never been another NBA player with as much control over his own destiny and roster (even coaches?) than James.

Michael Jordan waited seven seasons to win a title, because he stayed put in Chicago and felt a responsibility to try to give that city a championship. He was loyal, in other words.

Think he couldn’t have won championships in other places, had he chosen to cherry pick his way onto other talented rosters? Of course he could have done it.

A lot of players have been traded with no say in the matter. LeBron has NEVER changed teams without it being his idea and his choice of destination.

So can we just cool off a little about his great achievement of winning titles -- or even Finals MVP awards -- for three different teams?

Roundball_Rock
10-13-2020, 06:28 PM
Damn, 4 rings as a HOF player and HOF GM? :bowdown:

HBK_Kliq_2
10-13-2020, 06:29 PM
Kawhi was dumped to Canada the annual choking team raptors. LeBron never won under those circumstances, maybe 2016 but still not quite.

Ainosterhaspie
10-13-2020, 06:34 PM
I don't care that he won with three teams. It's silly, pointless trivia, nothing more. More telling is that he was able to win with a star PG, SG and PF at different times.

Roundball_Rock
10-13-2020, 06:38 PM
I don't care that he won with three teams. It's silly, pointless trivia, nothing more. More telling is that he was able to win with a star PG, SG and PF at different times.

Good point. Yeah, and with 3 different coaches (finals with 5 coaches) too.

If Brady wins with Tampa that enhances his legacy. Gretzky would still be the GOAT but that he made the finals in LA enhanced him. I get why some people won't be impressed by it but a lot of people will be.

3ball
10-13-2020, 06:42 PM
PG, SG and PF at different times.



That's like giving MJ credit for winning with Drexler, Isiah, and Hakeem

FireDavidKahn
10-13-2020, 06:58 PM
Actually it is. It shows that LeBron can win in any situation.

MaxPlayer
10-13-2020, 07:05 PM
This is like saying that the Wright Brothers' flight was less impressive because they built the airplane.

Spurs m8
10-13-2020, 07:08 PM
I'm honestly surprised anyone thinks 3 teams is impressive when you've colluded for every single one.

Only the dumb buy into it being impressive.

Spurs m8
10-13-2020, 07:09 PM
Actually it is. It shows that LeBron can win in any situation.

Case in point.

'Any situation' - how many rings in the 7 years before colluding....what about that situation?

Shows he can cherry pick teams with other all stars....

But we all know you're one of the forums biggest morons

Ainosterhaspie
10-13-2020, 07:20 PM
If Jordan had one of those guys in the 80s, he might have been able to take down the Lakers and Celtics and that would have been really impressive. He didn't lose in the 80s cause he wasn't good enough (though he still had room to improve), he lost because he didn't have good enough support. I would love to have been able to see what he and Hakeem could have done teamed together in '86 going against prime Celtics and Lakers. His talent was being wasted on a crappy team instead.

Basketball history would have been enriched had Jordan had that support at that time, just like it has been enriched by LeBron playing with quality support when facing dynasty level teams instead of having his prime squandered by an incompetent front office in Cleveland. Kobe/Shaq, Duncan/Robinson, Magic/Kareem, these are legendary pairings that get dull accolades despite playing with each other. Two of those pairings are top 10-15 all time or better, but LeBron's supposed to be dismissed because he played with guys who will be lucky to break top 50 (Irving/Love/Bosh) or who are in the neighborhood of top 20 (Davis/Wade)?

8Ball
10-13-2020, 07:22 PM
GOAT gonna GOAT.

If the GOAT wants to be the GM, GOAT gets to decide which players play for him.

Roundball_Rock
10-13-2020, 07:26 PM
He didn't lose in the 80s cause he wasn't good enough (though he still had room to improve), he lost because he didn't have good enough support.

When Jordan loses, he had no help. When he wins, he had no help. So if the latter is true--MJ could win by himself--why is the former (lack of help)--relevant? He overcame it 6 times, what about those other seasons?

AirBonner
10-13-2020, 07:55 PM
Wait LeBron is the Fmvp, coach, and gm? LeEverything :bowdown:

Ainosterhaspie
10-13-2020, 07:55 PM
I don't make the argument that he didn't have help when he won. He had elite support relative to the league when he won, but didn't when he was losing in the 80s.

Shooter
10-13-2020, 08:07 PM
Mike needed a perfectly crafted system. He needed it tailor made to win. Mike won because of a system.

He needed to have an elite 2 way player at small forward, No Pip? NO CHIP. He needed the legendary GOAT head coach. He had to play in Chicago. He had to play under no legal zone defense.

Give LBJ the worst front office that hadn't won a championship in 50 years and he will find a way to win. Stick Lebron in Cleveland, Miami, Los Angeles. It doesn't matter. LeBron's number two option star can be a point guard like Kyrie, a shooting guard like Dwayne Wade, or a big man like Anthony Davis. Again, it doesn't matter, he always finds a way to win. And don't forget, Ty Lue is no Phil Jackson.

Michael needed a tailor made, perfectly crafted system to get out of the 1st round.

LeBron just needed a ball.

Roundball_Rock
10-13-2020, 08:09 PM
I don't make the argument that he didn't have help when he won. He had elite support relative to the league when he won, but didn't when he was losing in the 80s.

Got it. :cheers: A lot of people here make that claim, though.