Winning 4 Finals counts, but so does losing 6

[Walk on Water]

Lebron is really -2. Won 4, but lost 6, so he's actually negative.

Let's talk about it. Some people think that it's better to make the Finals than to win the Finals. They think that as long as you made more NBA Finals, it doesn't matter if you lost. So by that same logic, if a new player were to make it to the NBA Finals for 20 straight years, but only win 2 Finals, then they would be considered better than Lebron. (The more finals you make, the more you're supposed to win.)

And Lebron had superteams. So by that same logic, in order to pass Lebron in All Time List, not only do you have to lose more Finals, it would be better to have even more superstars than just Davis, Irving, Love, Bosh, and Wade.

Do you see how idiotic that sounds? You see even if Lebron gets to 6 rings, it will have taken him a minimum of 19 years to do it. It only took Jordan 13 years to win his 6 rings. Furthermore, Jordan put his teams away before there ever was a game 7 and Lebron has won 2 Finals in game 7s.

You cannot just count the wins, without counting the losses. An example of this is James Harden. He makes a lot of 3 pointers but you have to look at his efficiency and misses too. You cannot just count the makes without counting the misses.

Some people will say that it's impressive just because he MADE so many NBA Finals. This has more to do with luck, health, and longevity. He has only been hurt once. And so that gives him a great chance to make the Finals every year. Plus he somehow has the stamina to go through with it. But in the end the 6 losses are indeed a stain. It's like saying you had more dates than the other dude, but the other dude went all the way and never got rejected. Which guy would you rather be? You get my point.

[AussieSteve]

Do you honestly count 2007, 2015, 2017 and 2018 against him? Do you think anyone in history would have won in his place in any of those years?

[SouBeachTalents]

Do you honestly count 2007, 2015, 2017 and 2018 against him? Do you think anyone in history would have won in his place in any of those years?
You really trying to have a reasonable discussion with the biggest troll on the board :lol

[AussieSteve]

You really trying to have a reasonable discussion with the biggest troll on the board :lol

I didn't read OP. Just responding to the thread title to see the response

[Spurs m8]

Some people are born winners...

And some are born like LeBron


GImmE reSpeKt :cry::cry::cry:

[SpaceJam]

Some people are born winners...

And some are born like LeBron


GImmE reSpeKt :cry::cry::cry:

If Bron's a loser what are you m8?

[AussieSteve]

Some people are born winners...

And some are born like LeBron


GImmE reSpeKt :cry::cry::cry:

Do you honestly count 2007, 2015, 2017 and 2018 against him? Do you think anyone in history would have won in his place in any of those years?

[theman93]

Do you honestly count 2007, 2015, 2017 and 2018 against him? Do you think anyone in history would have won in his place in any of those years?

If 2007, 2015, 2017, and 2018 don't count against him, then 2020 doesn't count for him.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Tbh, winning 4 >> losing 6, you cant count it as -2, it doesnt add up this way. But of course, winning 4 and losing 6, is definitely nowhere close to winning 6 and losing 0, this is simple logic.

[red1]

Disagree.



Only finals MVPs count.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

If 2007, 2015, 2017, and 2018 don't count against him, then 2020 doesn't count for him.

End of thread. Check aussiesteve's pulse after his argument was easily destroyed. LeBron is the one that choose those to be on those 2015, 2017, 2018 cavs teams, we are not going to let him off the hook after he gets his ass kicked. It's also not our fault his co star Irving demanded a trade away from him.

[light]

Here's the thing, though... Michael Jordan would make the finals with 0 of LeBron's 10 finals teams.

With LeBron's 2007 Cavs team he may not have even made the playoffs. With LeBron's Cavs teams from 2014 to 2018 he may not even make it out of the first round. And that's only if Jordan and Kyrie didn't kill each other first and Kevin Love didn't demand a trade because of all the racially-tinged verbal abuse from Jordan (MJ had a propensity to talk down to his white teammates about their athleticism).

[GrayGoat]

You can’t lose in the finals if you don’t make it

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Lockout and facing 2 historic chokers in Westbrook/Harden

Ray Allen

Draymond suspension

Bubble ring and facing crippled 5th seed

Luckiest of all time, that's for sure. Definetely not the greatest of all time.

[GrayGoat]

Lockout and facing 2 historic chokers in Westbrook/Harden

Ray Allen

Draymond suspension

Bubble ring and facing crippled 5th seed

Luckiest of all time, that's for sure. Definetely not the greatest of all time.

Are you ok?

[bullettooth]

Why does LeBron have so many black marks on his resume?

[GrayGoat]

Why does LeBron have so many black marks on his resume?

You should get some rest bud. It’s been a tough year

[J Shuttlesworth]

Agreed with OP. Winning 4 titles counts. So does coming in 2nd place and winning the Conference Finals. Both of those things are massive legacy boosts.

4 Championships
10 Conference Championships

[Wally450]

Lebron is really -2. Won 4, but lost 6, so he's actually negative.

What in the actual **** is this logic?

[bullettooth]

Agreed with OP. Winning 4 titles counts. So does coming in 2nd place and winning the Conference Finals. Both of those things are massive legacy boosts.

4 Championships
10 Conference Championships

In that case: Kareem (6/9) > LeBron (4/10)

[red1]

What in the actual **** is this logic?

:roll:

[J Shuttlesworth]

In that case: Kareem (6/9) > LeBron (4/10)

Yeah we know. That's why KAJ/LeBron are top 2 all time

[nineiron]

You can’t lose in the finals if you don’t make it

you can make it to the finals if you're in a weak conference

[3ball]

Great title op.. puts it in perspective

[Bronbron23]

Agreed with OP. Winning 4 titles counts. So does coming in 2nd place and winning the Conference Finals. Both of those things are massive legacy boosts.

4 Championships
10 Conference Championships

Runner ups aren't a massive legacy boost. Its a small one though.

[tpols]

Yup... and 2 shots away from having 8 Finals losses.

This is while team hopping around from team to team with All NBA and MVP talent like no star has ever done before.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Runner ups aren't a massive legacy boost. Its a small one though.

That's subjective, but I agree with your idea that it is at least a small boost at worst. It's definitely better to lose in the finals than to lose earlier. 4/10 > 4/4

[Bronbron23]

That's subjective, but I agree with your idea that it is at least a small boost at worst. It's definitely better to lose in the finals than to lose earlier. 4/10 > 4/4

Yeah i agree with that. It can be more complicated than that though and here's why. Most first round teams aren't good enough to win. They were just good enough to make it. When they lose its usually because they're playing against a better team. The finals however is usually a much closer matchup and when you lose its often because you just got out played. This was the case for bron in 11 and 14. This never happened to mj. Once he had a good team he never lost with the exception of 95 which imo is a obvious outlier. Add that to the fact that that bron played in the weaker conference it takes a little bit away from him making it to the finals as much as he did. If bron was in the west he would of had only 3 finals appearances. He woukd maybe even have less conference finals appearances because he would of been playing in the west and had more regular season loses so who knows where he would of placed and faced in the first and second round.

[Micku]

Do you honestly count 2007, 2015, 2017 and 2018 against him? Do you think anyone in history would have won in his place in any of those years?


2017 The cavs should've put a better fight imo. They had more talent than the 2018 Rockets. But I doubt they would win either way.

All in all, LeBron was pretty unlucky in his career in terms of running to the GSW era. But he started the whole super team movement at the same time when he moved to Miami with Wade/Bosh. It just didn't pan out as well as KD with the Warriors. He tried to do the same thing with the Cavs, but it also didn't work as well. But at least they got to the finals every year. That's super impressive.


Despite the fact that he ran into the GSW, there's no guarantee that he would win against a couple of the other western teams.

Basically the only criticism I have with LeBron teams or the coaching, is that they never figured out to maximize the talent consistently enough. They did it for scrub teams, for sure. But I guess in the end it doesn't matter cuz they got to the finals. And they definitely didn't have the potential that the GSW had with KD.

[Spurs m8]

LeBron ran when it got too hard...(multiple times)

KD did it better.
Whilst also making LeBron his b1tch twice and taking fmvp.

How embarrassing

[Goldrush25]

Some people will say that it's impressive just because he MADE so many NBA Finals. This has more to do with luck, health, and longevity. He has only been hurt once. And so that gives him a great chance to make the Finals every year. Plus he somehow has the stamina to go through with it. But in the end the 6 losses are indeed a stain. It's like saying you had more dates than the other dude, but the other dude went all the way and never got rejected. Which guy would you rather be? You get my point.

Interesting analogy. I'll kinda rip it apart though.

First of all, no real man cares about getting rejected by a potential date. The real men keep going and shooting their shot because they know they'll succeed in due time. And when Bron did succeed, on average he was smashing better quality dates than MJ. Who cares if you nailed a bunch of 5s and never got rejected? You didn't ever challenge yourself. I'd rather get a fewer amount of 8s, 9s or 10s because it takes a higher quality man to get those.

The only way 6 is unequivocally greater than 4 is if you assign them all equal value, which we don't. The reality is no team that MJ beat were of the quality of the 2013 Spurs or the 2016 Warriors.

[GrayGoat]

Interesting analogy. I'll kinda rip it apart though.

First of all, no real man cares about getting rejected by a potential date. The real men keep going and shooting their shot because they know they'll succeed in due time. And when Bron did succeed, on average he was smashing better quality dates than MJ. Who cares if you nailed a bunch of 5s and never got rejected? You didn't ever challenge yourself. I'd rather get a fewer amount of 8s, 9s or 10s because it takes a higher quality man to get those.

Holy shit you eviscerated him

[Spurs m8]

Interesting analogy. I'll kinda rip it apart though.

First of all, no real man cares about getting rejected by a potential date. The real men keep going and shooting their shot because they know they'll succeed in due time. And when Bron did succeed, on average he was smashing better quality dates than MJ. Who cares if you nailed a bunch of 5s and never got rejected? You didn't ever challenge yourself. I'd rather get a fewer amount of 8s, 9s or 10s because it takes a higher quality man to get those.

The only way 6 is unequivocally greater than 4 is if you assign them all equal value, which we don't. The reality is no team that MJ beat were of the quality of the 2013 Spurs or the 2016 Warriors.

But 2016 - for example - Jordan didn't have a side kick averaging nearly 30ppg in the Finals

Let's not act like LeBron beat them on his own

Also, let's not act like Jordan opposition was 5 out of 10s lol

You're crafty, but I see right through you

[GrayGoat]

But 2016 - for example - Jordan didn't have a side kick averaging nearly 30ppg in the Finals

Let's not act like LeBron beat them on his own

Also, let's not act like Jordan opposition was 5 out of 10s lol

You're crafty, but I see right through you

3 stars vs 2. LeBron dominates in MJ’s two star format even vs a 3 star team

[RRR3]

But 2016 - for example - Jordan didn't have a side kick averaging nearly 30ppg in the Finals

Let's not act like LeBron beat them on his own

Also, let's not act like Jordan opposition was 5 out of 10s lol

You're crafty, but I see right through you
Jordan had a better sidekick than Kyrie for literally all of his rings. Lyrie is cancer.

[BigtimeNBAFan]

Jordan had a better sidekick than Kyrie for literally all of his rings. Lyrie is cancer.

Yep Kyrie is pure cancer. Boston has made the conference 3 of the past 4 years. The one year they didn't was with Kyrie leading the team.

[tpols]

Jordan had a better sidekick than Kyrie for literally all of his rings. Lyrie is cancer.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bf/ee/aa/bfeeaaadea68fd83b0e71565c9cfae67.jpg

Dummy say what?

:lol

[tpols]

But 2016 - for example - Jordan didn't have a side kick averaging nearly 30ppg in the Finals

Let's not act like LeBron beat them on his own

Also, let's not act like Jordan opposition was 5 out of 10s lol

You're crafty, but I see right through you

You cant argue with a retard mate. Just make your point and give them a disappointed glance of pity... Especially an aggressive one that has no propensity for self reflection.

Kyrie literally outplayed a UMVP winner... and hit a championship winning shot. Pippen has never ever done that lol.

[Axe]

Yep Kyrie is pure cancer. Boston has made the conference 3 of the past 4 years. The one year they didn't was with Kyrie leading the team.
Kyrie was pure cancer yet he embarrassed the overrated stephen curry during that finals. Smh.

[Spurs m8]

You cant argue with a retard mate. Just make your point and give them a disappointed glance of pity... Especially an aggressive one that has no propensity for self reflection.

Kyrie literally outplayed a UMVP winner... and hit a championship winning shot. Pippen has never ever done that lol.

Oh I do....I've learned its the only way to go about it.

Make your point and then watch the army of losers trip over themselves as they bash their keyboard incoherently :pimp:

[red1]

Only player in nba history to win finals mvp on 3 franchises


Haters hold this L

[Bronbron23]

Imagine actually celebrating a loss. This everyone's a winner generation is bitch made for sure. If jim kelly was playing in the nfl now they'd think he was a god:facepalm

[Spurs m8]

Imagine actually celebrating a loss. This everyone's a winner generation is bitch made for sure. If jim kelly was playing in the nfl now they'd think he was a god:facepalm

I just can't get my head around it.

Are they actually this b1tch made or are they clutching at straws?

Hard to know

[Bronbron23]

I just can't get my head around it.

Are they actually this b1tch made or are they clutching at straws?

Hard to know

Nah they're definitely bitch made. Its not really their fault though its the culture they come up in. Funny thing is real ass dudes who come up in this generation know that their generation is soft as shit. Basically the jimmy butlers of the world. Its the goofy ass bron stan types that dont know any better. Most bitches dont know they're bitches. Everyone knows but them.

[RRR3]

Ttard trying to tell us a player with confirmed less impact than Terry Rozier and Spencer Dinwiddie is better than a top 20-30 GOAT :roll:


Can’t make this shit up

[Mauzah]

Interesting analogy. I'll kinda rip it apart though.

First of all, no real man cares about getting rejected by a potential date. The real men keep going and shooting their shot because they know they'll succeed in due time. And when Bron did succeed, on average he was smashing better quality dates than MJ. Who cares if you nailed a bunch of 5s and never got rejected? You didn't ever challenge yourself. I'd rather get a fewer amount of 8s, 9s or 10s because it takes a higher quality man to get those.

The only way 6 is unequivocally greater than 4 is if you assign them all equal value, which we don't. The reality is no team that MJ beat were of the quality of the 2013 Spurs or the 2016 Warriors.

Yeah that sounds great and all but those 9's and 10's don't mean as much when you have to roufie them to get them

[GrayGoat]

Yeah that sounds great and all but those 9's and 10's don't mean as much when you have to roufie them to get them

You picked a bad year to join and hate Bron

[Spurs m8]

Yeah that sounds great and all but those 9's and 10's don't mean as much when you have to roufie them to get them

:roll::roll::roll:

[Walk on Water]

You can’t lose in the finals if you don’t make it


You can't win the the finals if you lose.

[Walk on Water]

That's subjective, but I agree with your idea that it is at least a small boost at worst. It's definitely better to lose in the finals than to lose earlier. 4/10 > 4/4

I disagree that it's better to lose in the finals than earlier. Because then you have higher expectations. Like the Warriors won 73 games and people only talk about the loss. But based on your logic, Lebron shouldn't get much of a boost in 2016 because he didn't have the 73 win season.