Why do people ignore LeBron's 22 PPG on 42.8% TS in NBA Finals 2007?

[Drygon]

Usually, people says LeBron's only deserves criticism for losing to Dallas in NBA Finals 2011 where he made 17.8 PPG on 54.1 TS%.

However, why do people ignores LeBron's performance in NBA Finals compared to what he did in the East playoffs.

- 2007 Playoffs in the East: 25.8 PPG on 54.4 TS%
- 2007 NBA Finals 2007: 22 PPG on 42.8% TS

Obviously, Spurs was a better team on paper & I don't hold it against LeBron for losing to them.

But the Finals was a lot closer than people remembers.

- Game 1: Cavs 76 - 85 Spurs
- Game 2: Cavs 92 - 103 Spurs
- Game 3: Cavs 72 - 75 Spurs
- Game 4: Cavs 82 - 83 Spurs

People gives LeBron tons of credit about how he carried a "garbage team" to NBA Finals.

But why don't people holding the very same high standard when LeBron sucked badly against Spurs?

[Drygon]

And before everyone is saying: "LeBron was only 22 year old"...

LeBron already had All-NBA 1st team selection (barely missing another one) & 2x All-NBA 2nd team selections at that point of his career. He was undisputed best player in East & already was a top 3 player in NBA. LeBron played terribly and is is the reason the Cavs lost multiple very winnable games that would have made this a series.

[SouBeachTalents]

Do you seriously believe people ignore anything when it comes to LeBron?

[Lebron23]

Usually, people says LeBron's only deserves criticism for losing to Dallas in NBA Finals 2011 where he made 17.8 PPG on 54.1 TS%.

However, why do people ignores LeBron's performance in NBA Finals compared to what he did in the East playoffs.

- 2007 Playoffs in the East: 25.8 PPG on 54.4 TS%
- 2007 NBA Finals 2007: 22 PPG on 42.8% TS

Obviously, Spurs was a better team on paper & I don't hold it against LeBron for losing to them.

But the Finals was a lot closer than people remembers.

- Game 1: Cavs 76 - 85 Spurs
- Game 2: Cavs 92 - 103 Spurs
- Game 3: Cavs 72 - 75 Spurs
- Game 4: Cavs 82 - 83 Spurs

People gives LeBron tons of credit about how he carried a "garbage team" to NBA Finals.

But why don't people holding the very same high standard when LeBron sucked badly against Spurs?

22 years old, worst 2nd option in nba history. Lack of 3 points range against the Spurs who were playing zone defense.

[Drygon]

Do you seriously believe people ignore anything when it comes to LeBron?f

LeBron's meltdown against Dallas is the only Finals series people criticizing him for.

His pathetic series against Spurs doesn't get mention nearly as much.

Which is strange, LeBron is a "GOAT candidate"...

[Roundball_Rock]

You know the answer: he was 22 and he gets credit for even getting to the finals with Boobie Gibson as the team's second option. The contention is that no other player in NBA history could have gotten them that far with so little.

Nothing about LeBron gets ignored, though. He isn't a legend who the media acts never lost or never had a bad game etc.

[Manny98]

Because he was 22 and had no business making the finals in the first place

[Drygon]

You know the answer: he was 22 and he gets credit for even getting to the finals with Boobie Gibson as the team's second option. The contention is that no other player in NBA history could have gotten them that far with so little.

Nothing about LeBron gets ignored, though. He isn't a legend who the media acts never lost or never had a bad game etc.

The same Bobbie Gibson who closed out the Pistons in the ECF with 31 points not missing a 3 while Lebron shot 3-11? Also included Anderson Varejao and Drew Gooden holding Tim Duncan to 45% shooting in the Finals, Duncan's 2nd worst Finals ever. Still lost


Because he was 22 and had no business making the finals in the first place

Lol.

LeBron was up against 41-41 Magic with an injured Gilbert Arenas, the 41-41 Nets, the Pistons without Big Ben and Larry Brown.

The Cavs definitely had business making into NBA Finals 2007 given how weak the East was.

[AussieSteve]

He was the same age MJ was in his rookie season.

And it was 14 seasons ago. MJ played 13 seasons at the bulls. Just sayin...

[MaxPlayer]

He was 22 years old and his #2 was Boobie Gibson

[zeerghit]

He should’ve lost in the first round like Jordan did its better yes?

[Kiddlovesnets]

We don’t ignore that, and the 2007 finals loss was the one that eliminated Lebron from GOAT conversation, since he could no longer have an undefeated 100% record in the finals series. Remember 100% finals winning percentage is a necessary condition for GOAT, Lebron had lost his chance as early as 2007.

[tpols]

Kobe did this at age 22.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cTb-tOmJ9UI/hqdefault.jpg

No excuses fellas.

Ironically it was also the Spurs that he torched the most back when they had the Twin Towers.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Kobe did this at age 22.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cTb-tOmJ9UI/hqdefault.jpg

No excuses fellas.

Ironically it was also the Spurs that he torched the most back when they had the Twin Towers.

Let’s not compare Kobe to Lebron, the latter should be compared to the greater players like Kareem and Magic. Kobe’s comparisons are Hakeem and Oscar, he’s hardly a top 10 player of all time and Lebron surpassed him way back in 2016. The gap between Lebron and Kobe is as wide as MJ and Lebron, if not even worse.

[StrongLurk]

I'm of the few Bron fans on this board that totally thinks his 07 run was overrated (outside of Detroit game 5 of course).

I don't blame Lebron for LOSING in the 07 finals, but he definitely deserves criticism for playing like shit. I mean, was he a superstar or not at 22? All the Lebron stans say Lebron was a superstar in 07, yet he played like absolute crap in the finals...so yeah if you think Lebron was a superstar in 07 then he deserves big criticism.

Seriously look at all the bullshit responses in this thread...how are the stans saying "he was only 22"...yet also consider Lebron one of the best players in the league in 07.

The TRUTH is simple...Lebron was a great young superstar in 07 that ONLY made the finals because the East was horrible that year...he deserves credit for having a very solid playoff run and a legendary game 5 against the Pistons...but he also deserves a ton of criticism for playing like crap in the finals as an INDIVIDUAL. For reference, MJ at 22 put up like 44/6/6 against the 86 Celtics (who won the chip that year as well just like the 07 Spurs). If Lebron and the 07 Cavs faced the SPURS in the first round of the playoffs...then Lebron would have lost then lol.

Regardless though, Lebron is cemented right now as the second best player of all time.

[zeerghit]

Kobe did this at age 22.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cTb-tOmJ9UI/hqdefault.jpg

No excuses fellas.

Ironically it was also the Spurs that he torched the most back when they had the Twin Towers.

this is not finals..

[tpols]

this is not finals..

Back then the WCFs were the Finals.

And the Tim Duncan David Robinson Spurs were a HELL of a lot better than this injured 5th seeded Miami Heat team.

[zeerghit]

Back then the WCFs were the Finals.

And the Tim Duncan David Robinson Spurs were a HELL of a lot better than this injured 5th seeded Miami Heat team.
really? stop embarrassing yourself

[Drygon]

I'm of the few Bron fans on this board that totally thinks his 07 run was overrated (outside of Detroit game 5 of course).

I don't blame Lebron for LOSING in the 07 finals, but he definitely deserves criticism for playing like shit. I mean, was he a superstar or not at 22? All the Lebron stans say Lebron was a superstar in 07, yet he played like absolute crap in the finals...so yeah if you think Lebron was a superstar in 07 then he deserves big criticism.

Seriously look at all the bullshit responses in this thread...how are the stans saying "he was only 22"...yet also consider Lebron one of the best players in the league in 07.

The TRUTH is simple...Lebron was a great young superstar in 07 that ONLY made the finals because the East was horrible that year...he deserves credit for having a very solid playoff run and a legendary game 5 against the Pistons...but he also deserves a ton of criticism for playing like crap in the finals as an INDIVIDUAL. For reference, MJ at 22 put up like 44/6/6 against the 86 Celtics (who won the chip that year as well just like the 07 Spurs). If Lebron and the 07 Cavs faced the SPURS in the first round of the playoffs...then Lebron would have lost then lol.

Regardless though, Lebron is cemented right now as the second best player of all time.

+1

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm of the few Bron fans on this board that totally thinks his 07 run was overrated (outside of Detroit game 5 of course).

I don't blame Lebron for LOSING in the 07 finals, but he definitely deserves criticism for playing like shit. I mean, was he a superstar or not at 22? All the Lebron stans say Lebron was a superstar in 07, yet he played like absolute crap in the finals...so yeah if you think Lebron was a superstar in 07 then he deserves big criticism.

Seriously look at all the bullshit responses in this thread...how are the stans saying "he was only 22"...yet also consider Lebron one of the best players in the league in 07.

The TRUTH is simple...Lebron was a great young superstar in 07 that ONLY made the finals because the East was horrible that year...he deserves credit for having a very solid playoff run and a legendary game 5 against the Pistons...but he also deserves a ton of criticism for playing like crap in the finals as an INDIVIDUAL. For reference, MJ at 22 put up like 44/6/6 against the 86 Celtics (who won the chip that year as well just like the 07 Spurs). If Lebron and the 07 Cavs faced the SPURS in the first round of the playoffs...then Lebron would have lost then lol.

Regardless though, Lebron is cemented right now as the second best player of all time.
A decisive end to the thread

[Axe]

Back then the WCFs were the Finals.

And the Tim Duncan David Robinson Spurs were a HELL of a lot better than this injured 5th seeded Miami Heat team.
Yes because the spurs were the first eastern team they faced in the playoffs during that year before the sixers.

[TheCorporation]

He made the mistake of winning more and getting 2nd place, he should have gone for 16th. Lebron was a fool for winning more games and going deeper into the playoffs in 2007. He should have done a Jordan legacy saver 1st round exit special.

[RRR3]

Kobe did this at age 22.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cTb-tOmJ9UI/hqdefault.jpg

No excuses fellas.

Ironically it was also the Spurs that he torched the most back when they had the Twin Towers.
Yeah and then he pooped his pants in the finals and had to be rescued by Shaq. As usual.

[sdot_thadon]

Kobe did this at age 22.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cTb-tOmJ9UI/hqdefault.jpg

No excuses fellas.

Ironically it was also the Spurs that he torched the most back when they had the Twin Towers.

Next to a top 10 player of all time in his absolute prime, are you kidding me?

[sdot_thadon]

And before everyone is saying: "LeBron was only 22 year old"...

LeBron already had All-NBA 1st team selection (barely missing another one) & 2x All-NBA 2nd team selections at that point of his career. He was undisputed best player in East & already was a top 3 player in NBA. LeBron played terribly and is is the reason the Cavs lost multiple very winnable games that would have made this a series.

Why isn't it held against him? Because who makes the finals that young/early in their career without another star by their side? What player, legend or not is ready to win that early without a strong team in place? He was playing with house money and his 2nd option went down with an injury in case you weren't around then. Pop made sure what he did to Detroit wouldn't happen against his team and it worked. He was still learning the game at that point and the game against the pistons was basically his, I'm here moment as an all time great. Crazily enough he WAS one of the best players in the league already, but overall the 2007 playoff run was his worst statistically wasn't it? Why aren't MJ's Wizards years held against him? The east was even weaker than the one Lebron made it to the finals in and the goat missed the playoffs altogether with better players than Lebron had in 07.....

[Drygon]

I don't understand why people are downplaying LeBron's "weak supporting cast". It's a close series where Spurs barely won their games despite LeBron underpeforming.

Funny how LeBron was old enough to get credit for the ECF against Detroit, but "only" 22 to get blame for how bad he played.

[AussieSteve]

Kobe did this at age 22.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cTb-tOmJ9UI/hqdefault.jpg

No excuses fellas.

Ironically it was also the Spurs that he torched the most back when they had the Twin Towers.

Which is relevant because LeBron also had a player of Shaq's calibre drawing all the defense's attention.

Also, didn't lebron average more in his first ever playoff series than Kobe did in any series across his entire career?

[SouBeachTalents]

Which is relevant because LeBron also had a player of Shaq's calibre drawing all the defense's attention.

Also, didn't lebron average more in his first ever playoff series than Kobe did in any series across his entire career?
It is crazy though the guy averaged more ppg in his first ever playoff series than the vast majority of ATG's ever did in their entire careers

[Ainosterhaspie]

Are you just going to every basketball forum posting the same dumbass thread.

2007 LeBron sucked compared to 2012 LeBron and after. LeBron doesn't need that series to argue his greatness. Its an afterthought to his career. He can throw down 45 other superior series. That series, one that would be a spectacular career cap for just about every player, is throw away trash for LeBron. He doesn't need it for his legacy. That's why no one cares about it. He's got 8 other superior finals performances. Only Magic and Kareem even have that many appearances much less superior finals performances.

Shitty as it was, it was still better than Jordan's seventh best finals performance and its only LeBron's ninth best finals performance. It's also better than Kobe's seventh best finals performance.

[Drygon]

Because he was 22 and had no business making the finals in the first place

Let's please dispel the notion that the 2007 Cavs were awful & Lebron dragged them to the Finals.

Back in the mid 2000s, the general "key" to building a championship team was to have a really tough, strong defense and an offensive anchor, a la Pistons or Spurs, somewhat Miami. The 2007 Cavs had a statistically top 5 defense (which could easily be argued to be the best). They were monster offensive rebounders, monster defensive rebounders, didn't turn the ball over, and forced a bunch of turnovers. Their offense was built around Lebron, but everyone contributed to dominating other aspects of the game.

On the way to the Finals the Cavs beat a 41 win Wiz team who were missing both Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler, a 41 win Nets team, and a declining 53 win Pistons team without HOF Coach Larry Brown & Ben Wallace. His team stepped up in the playoffs and showed they were the 2 seed for a reason. They weren't a bunch of D-league scrubs just because the narrative says so iin order to prop up LeBron & downplaying his teammates.

[eliteballer]

lol LeBron was 2 years older than rookie Magic...he wasn't that young.

[Roundball_Rock]

Let's please dispel the notion that the 2007 Cavs were awful & Lebron dragged them to the Finals.

Back in the mid 2000s, the general "key" to building a championship team was to have a really tough, strong defense and an offensive anchor, a la Pistons or Spurs, somewhat Miami. The 2007 Cavs had a statistically top 5 defense (which could easily be argued to be the best). They were monster offensive rebounders, monster defensive rebounders, didn't turn the ball over, and forced a bunch of turnovers. Their offense was built around Lebron, but everyone contributed to dominating other aspects of the game.

On the way to the Finals the Cavs beat a 41 win Wiz team who were missing both Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler, a 41 win Nets team, and a declining 53 win Pistons team without HOF Coach Larry Brown & Ben Wallace. His team stepped up in the playoffs and showed they were the 2 seed for a reason. They weren't a bunch of D-league scrubs just because the narrative says so iin order to prop up LeBron & downplaying his teammates.

The same Cavs that went 0-7 without LeBron the next year? :lol

[Drygon]

The revisionist history about how LeBron & his supporting cast is absurd.

[Carbine]

It has been pointed out in this thread but the East was at it's all time worst in that playoff run. Honestly, the all time worst. The teams the Cavs had to beat were very soft for a Finals run.

[Drygon]

The same Cavs that went 0-7 without LeBron the next year? :lol

How's that relevant for 2007 Cavs specifically? It still doesn't change LeBron's team were good that year.

Saying they had no chance reaching NBA Finals 2007 is pure BS.

[Roundball_Rock]

The revisionist history about how LeBron & his supporting cast is absurd.


Season Team W-L Without LeBron W-L With LeBron

2018-2019 Lakers 0-1 20-14
2017-2018 Cavaliers 0-0 50-32
2016-2017 Cavaliers 0-8 51-23
2015-2016 Cavaliers 1-5 56-20
2014-2015 Cavaliers 3-10 50-19
2013-2014 Heat 2-3 52-25
2012-2013 Heat 5-1 61-15
2011-2012 Heat 1-3 45-17
2010-2011 Heat 1-2 57-22
2009-2010 Cavaliers 1-5 60-16
2008-2009 Cavaliers 0-1 66-15
2007-2008 Cavaliers 0-7 45-30
2006-2007 Cavaliers 3-1 47-31
2005-2006 Cavaliers 3-0 47-32
2004-2005 Cavaliers 1-1 41-39
2003-2004 Cavaliers 2-1 33-46

https://ca.nba.com/news/lebron-james-injury-missing-games-los-angeles-lakers-cleveland-cavaliers-miami-heat/1cse7oozda1vv1oploux4nvenz

[tpols]

Which is relevant because LeBron also had a player of Shaq's calibre drawing all the defense's attention.

Also, didn't lebron average more in his first ever playoff series than Kobe did in any series across his entire career?


You didn't watch either series given this comment.

Popovich single covered Lebron with Bruce Bowen. The Spurs packed the paint and dared him to shoot, to which he shot 25% on jumpers.

In 2001, Popovich played Shaq straight up with Duncan, spelling him with Robinson.

Watch the tape of Kobe's opening 45/10 Game 1.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qawbo3NOmR4

Look how many plays were in transition with Shaq still not even over halfcourt, and how many extremely contested jumpers Kobe makes.

That's something 2007 Lebron couldn't do and why he couldn't match a 22 year old Kobe Bryant.