11' Mavs were a 1 star team - Lebron's Cavs would've beat them if he stayed

[3ball]

The Cavs already had a top 5 defense and were adding pieces every year (Mo in 09'.. Jamison in 10') - so they would've added another piece in 2011 and won, although Lebron can beat Dirk without adding another piece

After winning in 2011, Lebron's Cavs would've entered 2012 as a deep champion and the top defense in the league - they would destroy the baby Thunder..

So lebron didn't need to team-hop folks - surely if he knew that a 1-star team would win the West in 2011, he might've stayed in Cleveland and won the easy ring that year.. 30 years later, people would go on forums and call the Cavs "stacked", like people do now with Jordan's Bulls

[SouBeachTalents]

Why would he beat the Mavs with the Cavs if he didn't beat them with Wade & Bosh?

[TheGoatest]

2012 Thunder
2013 Spurs
2016 Warriors

were all-time great caliber teams.
Not a single team Jordan ever beat in a playoff series was.

[3ball]

Why would he beat the Mavs with the Cavs if he didn't beat them with Wade & Bosh?

^^^ pretty dumb response tbh

the 1-star Mavs were a weak roster, while the Cavs were 60-win 1 seeds that would've been favored in 09' and 10' (Cavs were the league favorite), let alone 11' after adding another piece

Otoh, everyone knows the heat lost a massive upset due to lack of chemistry and overconfidence

[3ball]

Ultimately, Dirk did what lebron thought he couldn't do (win as a 1-star team)

Lebron should've stuck it out in Cleveland

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JL4C9Wl2g2Q

[SouBeachTalents]

^^^ pretty dumb response tbh

the 1-star Mavs were a weak roster, while the Cavs were 60-win 1 seeds that would've been favored in 09' and 10' (Cavs were the league favorite), let alone 11' after adding another piece

Otoh, everyone knows the heat lost a massive upset due to lack of chemistry and overconfidence
:biggums: That was exactly my point, what the fck are you talking about :oldlol:

[2swift4u]

the thing is Miami would have beaten the Cavs too if they hadn't blown that huge lead in game 4 (if I remember correctly). That was a total momentum switch. I felt like up to that moment they were in control and if they hadn't blown a 20pts lead then they would have been up 3-1 in the series and we all know what that means.

[3ball]

the thing is Miami would have beaten the Cavs too if they hadn't blown that huge lead in game 4 (if I remember correctly). That was a total momentum switch. I felt like up to that moment they were in control
The Mavs pulled a huge upset that no one thought would happen and dirk did what young lebron thought he couldn't do in Cleveland (win as a 1-star team)..

So lebron should've stuck it out in Cleveland and won in 2011 - 2011 was his chance to face a 1-star team in Dirk - so he didn't even need to beat a super-team like Dirk did..

and the Cavs were already 60-win 1 seeds and the league favorite in 09' and 10', so surely they could've won in 2011, especially after adding another piece to their 60-win 1 seed. So lebron left right before everything was going to happen for him

[aceman]

Basketball doesn't work like this - two or three star team not automatically better than one star team. Think Pistons Lakers

[3ball]

Basketball doesn't work like this - two or three star team not automatically better than one star team. Think Pistons Lakers

Exactly

It was karma because Dirk did what lebron thought was impossible - winning with a 1 star team - so 2011 was total karma

Dirk stuck it out in Dallas and beat a super-team, so lebron could've stuck it out in Cleveland and beaten the 1-star Mavs

[leKING]

You are hater. All ur posts u bash lebron.

[leKING]

This is for 3 ball, the hater. All your posts. To hate 1 guy.

[TheGoatest]

Basketball doesn't work like this - two or three star team not automatically better than one star team. Think Pistons Lakers

Exactly. For example, this Heat team had tremendous depth, to a point where they could afford to not play a guy who had a 24-9 and a 17-7 game, and shot 56 fg%/50 3pt% over these games.
Yet LeBron somehow managed to overcome this depth with his third best guy averaging 12.8 on .377 shooting.

[3ball]

This is for 3 ball, the hater. All your posts. To hate 1 guy.

Accept that karma is real

Dirk did what lebron thought was impossible - winning with a 1 star team - aka karma

Dirk stuck it out in Dallas and beat a super-team, so lebron could've stuck it out in Cleveland and beaten the 1-star Mavs

[3ball]

.
Thread Cliffs


Dirk did what lebron thought was impossible - winning with a 1 star team - aka real karma

Dirk stuck it out in Dallas and beat a super-team, so lebron could've stuck it out in Cleveland and beaten the 1-star Mavs

His Cavs were already 60-win 1 seeds and the league favorite in 09/10, with further roster additions coming in 11' - so lebron left right before realizing his expectation.. his subsequent resume is therefore manufactured and distorted

[Manny98]

1-9

[leKING]

That same Mavs team swept the favored lakers team.

[red1]

Wrong like always 3ball. Those cavs were garbage on offense.



Remember when you used to argue that mo williams is better and more talented than pippen?

[MaxPlayer]

The **** is wrong with this guy?

[Phoenix]

There's no guarantee the Cavs get to the finals if Lebron stays in 2011. One, you would have had a Heat team with a still peak/prime Wade, Bosh presumably still goes there, and the money not spent on Lebron may have gone on another star FA pick-up or spent to solidify their bench. The Heat would have been formidable even without Lebron, a clear pecking order of Wade being the number 1 and Bosh would have probably played closer to how he did in Toronto, and the aforementioned scenario of a third star or a deeper bench. Miami would have fielded a strong team in 2011 ( Wade by himself won 48 games with drags, now add the aforementioned elements into the mix).

Two, you still had the Celtics there who needed the combined forces of Lebron and Wade to overcome. That team was still formidable as we saw the following season taking the Heat to 7 and needing Lebron to have the then-game of his life to avoid losing in 6. Good chance the Cavs wouldn't beat the Celtics, again.

Three, you had the Bulls with MVP Rose and the league's number 1 defense. Lebron may have played individually well against them but the rest of the team is getting shut down. Cavs are no lock to get past that Bulls team.

[Kiddlovesnets]

The 09 Magic was an one star team too and beat Lebron’s cavs.

[pandiani17]

The Mavs were far from a 1 star team. They get really underrated. They had all-stars like Shawn Marion, Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, Caron Butler (though I think he was injured in the finals) and then serviceable ballplayers like Haywood, Jason Terry, Barea or Deshawn Stevenson.

[AirBonner]

Lakers finished first and had Kobe,Pau,Bynum, Metta. Stacked and favorites.

[3ball]

The 09 Magic was an one star team too and beat Lebron’s cavs.

Dirk did what lebron thought was impossible - winning with a 1 star team - aka real karma

Dirk stuck it out in Dallas and beat a super-team, so lebron could've stuck it out in Cleveland and beaten the 1-star Mavs

His Cavs were already 60-win 1 seeds and the league favorite in 09/10, with further roster additions coming in 11' - so lebron left right before realizing his expectation.. his subsequent resume is therefore manufactured and distorted

[tpols]

Lakers finished first and had Kobe,Pau,Bynum, Metta. Stacked and favorites.

Another lie.

Spurs were the 1 seed in 2011.

[3ball]

Lebron's didn't face a lot of talent in 2011 Playoffs (Rose and Dirk is weak), so he would've won with a team that had good chemistry, which the 11' Cavs would've had in spades..

they were already a top 5 defense and would've had great chemistry with their 60-win core intact (Lebron/Jamison/Mo) + another piece added in 2011..

So he left right before things would've come together for him.. the path was easy in 11', and his team's talent/experience would've been quite high

[3ball]

In 2009, Garnett was out of the way but lebron screwed it up

In 2011, Kobe was out of the way and lebron screwed it up by team-hopping, which killed much-needed chemistry

Lebron butchered several "easy path" rings

[Kblaze8855]

Between Jason Kidd(still an all star in 2010), Chandler(Arguably their second most important player and the DPOY in NY a year or two later), and Marion you could argue Jason Terry was the 5th best total player on the Mavs at that time and trolls act like he defeated Lebron personally. It was a great team. They didn’t win the west by cheating. It was a lot of good players and a lot of good coaching.

[dankok8]

Not sure at all that 2011 Cavs could beat either the Celtics, Bulls or Heat that year to even make the Finals. I honestly think that if Lebron never left Cleveland he would have retired ringless. This isn't a shot at him. The Cavs just weren't good, weren't an attractive spot for free agents and would never suck enough with Lebron to draft someone like Kyrie.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Dirk in the finals = 23ppg on 40%, no playmaking, no defense

Its one of the weakest finals performances ever for a fmvp star

2011 Mavs are the most underrated team of all time, Dirk the most overrated ring ever

[Phoenix]

Bear in mind that we don't even know what the 2011 Cavs roster looks like. All we know is that no-one of significance was coming to Cleveland. Cavs also lost Shaq ( obviously nowhere near his peak, but was a big to counter Dwight), Big Z ( not sure he leaves if Lebron stays) and a few others who don't come to mind. Without any major moves it possible they take a minor step back. They won 61 games in 2010. Chicago won 62 that year and the Heat are probably a 55-60 win team with Wade, Bosh, and whoever Miami can surround them with.

[SouBeachTalents]

I don't even know what point OP is trying to make in this thread

I think LeBron finally broke his brain

[tpols]

2011 Lebron didn't have the pressure on him like his 2009 or 2010 self. I could definitely see him winning that year... Iggy led Sixers, old Boston, Rose Bulls is a cake walk to the Finals. Somebody brought up the Magic but go look up Dwight's productions that year in the playoffs. He was an absolute auto double triple team monster. So much better than playoff Rose it's a joke to compare the two.

The Mavs would still present a challenge for sure but there's just no way Lebron puts up the meme worthy clutch numbers he did in 2011 if he stayed with the Cavs. The main reason he was so bad at closing games in 2011 is because he had enormous PRESSURE on his shoulders from The Decision. Where he thought it "was gon be easy" and "not 5, not 6, not 7" were the expectations. Even before game 2 or 3 I believe it was Wade and Lebron were laughing at and mocking Dirk for having a cold.

TLDR: It was negative basketball karma that made LBJ choke in 2011 for team hopping, flopping, and making fun of sick Dirk. The basketball gods didn't like that.

[SouBeachTalents]

2011 Lebron didn't have the pressure on him like his 2009 or 2010 self. I could definitely see him winning that year... Iggy led Sixers, old Boston, Rose Bulls is a cake walk to the Finals. Somebody brought up the Magic but go look up Dwight's productions that year in the playoffs. He was an absolute auto double triple team monster. So much better than playoff Rose it's a joke to compare the two.

The Mavs would still present a challenge for sure but there's just no way Lebron puts up the meme worthy clutch numbers he did in 2011 if he stayed with the Cavs. The main reason he was so bad at closing games in 2011 is because he had enormous PRESSURE on his shoulders from The Decision. Where he thought it "was gon be easy" and "not 5, not 6, not 7" were the expectations. Even before game 2 or 3 I believe it was Wade and Lebron were laughing at and mocking Dirk for having a cold.

TLDR: It was negative basketball karma that made LBJ choke in 2011 for team hopping, flopping, and making fun of sick Dirk. The basketball gods didn't like that.
The Celtics & Bulls series were MUCH closer than 5 games would indicate. The Heat needed an OT win and a huge 4th quarter comeback to win the final 2 games of both series, and that was with Wade & Bosh. Absolutely no guarantee the Cavs win either of those series, or win against Wade/Bosh either

I do agree though there'd be significantly less pressure on LeBron, so that Finals collapse wouldn't be replicated had he stayed in Cleveland

[Phoenix]

'Old' Boston in 2012 were up 3-2 on the Heat and Lebron had to go into this mode:

https://media.giphy.com/media/NJRJyLEKnX2Q8/giphy.gif

to pull off the comeback. 2011 Boston coming over a 7 game finals series wouldn't have been a pushover.

Also, Tpols, if you think Lebron had enormous pressure coming off the decision, imagine the pressure he felt in 2012 coming off the prior finals and being down in the aforementioned hole against the Celts. 2011 happened because the Mavs were the only team that could fully exploit that Lebron and Wade were a 'my turn' offense, similar strengths and weaknesses and a work in progress. I doubt the 11 Mavs beat the 12 Heat once Miami figured out their identity and pecking order.

[3ball]

'Old' Boston in 2012 were up 3-2 on the Heat and Lebron had to go into this mode:

https://media.giphy.com/media/NJRJyLEKnX2Q8/giphy.gif

to pull off the comeback. 2011 Boston coming over a 7 game finals series wouldn't have been a pushover.

Also, Tpols, if you think Lebron had enormous pressure coming off the decision, imagine the pressure he felt in 2012 coming off the prior finals and being down in the aforementioned hole against the Celts. 2011 happened because the Mavs were the only team that could fully exploit that Lebron and Wade were a 'my turn' offense, similar strengths and weaknesses and a work in progress. I doubt the 11 Mavs beat the 12 Heat once Miami figured out their identity and pecking order.

The 2012 Celtics were 35 and 36 years old

Yet lebron was somehow down 2-3

Lebron is complete trash

[red1]

The 2012 Celtics were 35 and 36 years old

Yet lebron was somehow down 2-3

Lebron is complete trash
3ball lost his final brain cells :roll:

[3ball]

3ball lost his final brain cells :roll:

MJ beat Isiah/Dunars/Rodman when they were 29/27/29 years old

Lebron beat KG/Allen/Pierce when they were 35/36/34

so MJ >>>>

[red1]

MJ beat Isiah/Dunars/Rodman when they were 29/27/29 years old

Lebron beat KG/Allen/Pierce when they were 35/36/34

so MJ >>>>

Lebron just won his 4th ring at 35 turning 36


The entire league is trash compared to old lbj. Modern GOAT.

[3ball]

Lebron just won his 4th ring at 35 turning 36


The entire league is trash compared to old lbj. Modern GOAT.

Some ball movement team will probably beat him next year, just like the Spurs, Mavs and Warriors.. those are the odds based on past history (4/10).. he'll be expected to win, and then just like that, we'll see him getting destroyed and people making excuses for him

Ultimately, his skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning).. talent-based winning struggles on the championship level, thus lowering long run championship expectation.. lower expectation = inferior player

[Roundball_Rock]

Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Bynum got swept by the Mavs but LeBron and whatever bums the 11' Cavs had would beat them. In other words, OP must think LeBron is the GOAT to be able to pull his off. :bowdown: :lol

Except for the minor detail of LeBron losing with Wade, Bosh against the same team.

[red1]

Some ball movement team will probably beat him next year, just like the Spurs, Mavs and Warriors.. those are the odds based on past history (4/10).. he'll be expected to win, and then just like that, we'll see him getting destroyed and people making excuses for him

Ultimately, his skillset imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (talent-based winning).. talent-based winning struggles on the championship level, thus lowering long run championship expectation.. lower expectation = inferior player

Four finals MVPs bitch.



You wasted a decade arguing that he wouldn't win - you lost.

[red1]

Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Bynum got swept by the Mavs but LeBron and whatever bums the 11' Cavs had would beat them. In other words, OP must think LeBron is the GOAT to be able to pull his off. :bowdown: :lol

Except for the minor detail of LeBron losing with Wade, Bosh against the same team.
:oldlol:



He used to argue that mo williams is better than pippen because we all know what giving pippen his due credit would mean. Oh you mean it's a team sport? :roll:

[3ball]

Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Bynum got swept by the Mavs but LeBron and whatever bums the 11' Cavs had would beat them. In other words, OP must think LeBron is the GOAT to be able to pull his off. :bowdown: :lol

The Cavs had a top 5 defense and were the juggernaut league favorite for 2 years running - they would've added to this 60-win team in 2011 and had a ridiculously experienced/elite cast with the CHEMISTRY needed to beat the Mavs

that's why the Heat lost - weak chemistry and defense, which the Cavs didn't have

Ultimately, Dirk did what lebron thought was impossible - winning with a 1 star team - aka real karma

Dirk stuck it out in Dallas and beat a super-team, so lebron could've stuck it out in Cleveland and beaten the 1-star Mavs

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol:



He used to argue that mo williams is better than pippen because we all know what giving pippen his due credit would mean. Oh you mean it's a team sport? :roll:

:lol

LeBron's 4th ring has completely broken him.

[red1]

The Cavs had a top 5 defense and were the juggernaut league favorite for 2 years running - they would've added to this 60-win team in 2011 and had a ridiculously experienced/elite cast with the CHEMISTRY needed to beat the Mavs

that's why the Heat lost - weak chemistry and defense, which the Cavs didn't have

You lost dude.



Tell us more about how lebron won't retire top 10 or top 15 like you used to. :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

The Cavs had a top 5 defense and were the juggernaut league favorite for 2 years running - they would've added to this 60-win team in 2011 and had a ridiculously experienced/elite cast with the CHEMISTRY needed to beat the Mavs

that's why the Heat lost - weak chemistry and defense, which the Cavs didn't have
So then the fact he's been able to win on THREE separate occasions on teams with weak chemistry is incredible :applause:

[3ball]

You lost dude.



Tell us more about how lebron won't retire top 10 or top 15 like you used to. :roll:

Dirk did what lebron thought was impossible - winning with a 1 star team - aka real karma

Dirk stuck it out in Dallas and beat a super-team, so lebron could've stuck it out in Cleveland and beaten the 1-star Mavs

[Roundball_Rock]

So then the fact he's been able to win on THREE separate occasions on teams with weak chemistry is incredible :applause:

:bowdown:

[red1]

:lol

LeBron's 4th ring has completely broken him.

He lost it lmao.


"Bron ball cant win"


Four championships and finals MVPs say otherwise. :oldlol:

[red1]

Dirk did what lebron thought was impossible - winning with a 1 star team - aka real karma

Dirk stuck it out in Dallas and beat a super-team, so lebron could've stuck it out in Cleveland and beaten the 1-star Mavs

Pippen's bulls = 55 wins and the 2nd round of the playoffs.

[3ball]

Pippen's bulls = 55 wins and the 2nd round of the playoffs.
So MJ led a 19' Nets-like team to 6 titles, including 2 three-peats

GOAT

[AirBonner]

Another lie.

Spurs were the 1 seed in 2011.

Ok 2nd seed big whoop. Fact is they won 57 games and had two-Peat chemistry

[SouBeachTalents]

So MJ led a 19' Nets-like team to 6 titles, including 2 three-peats

GOAT
The 2019 Nets won 42 games, which to be fair is more than Jordan ever won without Pippen

[Roundball_Rock]

The 2019 Nets won 42 games, which to be fair is more than Jordan ever won without Pippen

:lol

Jordan ball didn't work. Hard to build chemistry with one guy hogging the ball.


He lost it lmao.


"Bron ball cant win"


Four championships and finals MVPs say otherwise

:lol

[red1]

So MJ led a 19' Nets-like team to 6 titles, including 2 three-peats

GOAT

0 rings without pippen. 0 rings with the wizards.


Pippen = 55 wins without mj

[3ball]

Pippen = 55 wins without mj




^^^ due to a 3-peat system, which pippen was nothing without

The 99' Rockets had Pippen at 3rd option, so they were more stacked than any Bulls team, but got eliminated in the 1st round

So only MJ could win with pippen

[AirBonner]

Swept Kobe

[3ball]

Swept Kobe

Kobe was old.. Kobe was old in 2010 tbh, but he toughed it out... And he was pursuing a 3-peat in 2011, so his collapse was no different than lebron/wade collapsing in 2014

[AirBonner]

Kobe was old.. Kobe was old in 2010 tbh, but he toughed it out... And he was pursuing a 3-peat in 2011, so his collapse was no different than lebron/wade collapsing in 2014

He was 4 years younger than LeBron is now. Be careful 3ball... that’s the same age as the bad boy pistons that MJ beat

[3ball]

He was 4 years younger than LeBron is now. Be careful 3ball... that’s the same age as the bad boy pistons that MJ beat

he was seeking a 3-peat, so the loss can't be held against him - lebron collapsed worse while seeking a 3-peat in 14' and lost by more than Kobe or anyone

[red1]

^^^ due to a 3-peat system, which pippen was nothing without

The 99' Rockets had Pippen at 3rd option, so they were more stacked than any Bulls team, but got eliminated in the 1st round

So only MJ could win with pippen

you just confirmed that jordan played on a stacked team.


there you go.



team sport. everyone had good teammates.

[3ball]

you just confirmed that jordan played on a stacked team.


there you go.



team sport. everyone had good teammates.

Every team in the league history is stacked

They're NBA players.. not your buddies at the Y