How many guards in the 90's were more skilled than Jamal Murray?

[Gus Hemmingway]

And just note that Murray is not even an all star in today's era or considered a Top 20 player.

[8Ball]

None

[Kblaze8855]

If a player who puts up 27/7/5 on 51% shooting and 45% over a deep playoff run isn’t an all star or top 20 in any era there are only 3 options.

1. It’s a fluke.

2. Going forward he will be a star and top whatever

3. The statistics of that era are significantly easier to get due to a combo of pace and rules.


Thats it. No era has or will have players that productive(on good teams especially) not considered a star without one of those things coming into play. Can be a fluke like Linsanity, a coming out party like rookie Wade in the playoffs where a franchise decides “Ok...this is the guy going forward”, or it can be an era/pace thing like Kelly Tripuka, Purvis Short, and Michael Adams doing 27 a game in situations perfectly setup for it.


I suspect he’s the second path. Not entirely a fluke....just...having arrived. Or maybe #2 with just a thin candy coating of #3 with the bubble and current rules and play styles fitting perimeter players.

Either way he’s likely a star going forward so your point is moot.

If he falls back into being another just pretty good guard his Bubble run will be such a career outlier it will probably be an ESPN special.

[Gus Hemmingway]

If a player who puts up 27/7/5 on 51% shooting and 45% over a deep playoff run isn’t an all star or top 20 in any era there are only 3 options.

1. It’s a fluke.

2. Going forward he will be a star and top whatever

3. The statistics of that era are significantly easier to get due to a combo of pace and rules.


Thats it. No era has or will have players that productive(on good teams especially) not considered a star without one of those things coming into play. Can be a fluke like Linsanity, a coming out party like rookie Wade in the playoffs where a franchise decides “Ok...this is the guy going forward”, or it can be an era/pace thing like Kelly Tripuka, Purvis Short, and Michael Adams doing 27 a game in situations perfectly setup for it.


I suspect he’s the second path. Not entirely a fluke....just...having arrived. Or maybe #2 with just a thin candy coating of #3 with the bubble and current rules and play styles fitting perimeter players.

Either way he’s likely a star going forward so your point is moot.

If he falls back into being another just pretty good guard his Bubble run will be such a career outlier it will probably be an ESPN special.


Or.. maybe guards today are just better

[Kblaze8855]

If they were you would have no ability to explain it or credibility to be listened to if you tried. You’re as classic a case as there is of a troll. You have nothing to add but the brief, repetitive, and inflammatory in the hopes of getting a stupid argument started. It won’t be with me because I just occasionally pop into topics I know are shit and hopefully give something to be responded to halfway seriously by others while trying to ignore the trolling author.

Just kinda reframing trolling topics into workable discussions where possible. Obviously after a finals series and now in an unusual offseason there has to be more leeway with trolls because there’s less to talk about and a significant result to discuss...so I’m going with this method for now.

[tpols]

Dozens.

Rod strickland was better than Jamal Murray and he's an after thought.

[Kblaze8855]

Rod Strickland was something like a play making Kyrie with absolutely no jumper. Think Celtics Rondo jumper and playmaking wise mixed with Kyries handles and finishing....

With the game played like it is now a player like that would be absolutely unstoppable getting into the lane but also ruin spacing. Teams would probably take Murray for that reason alone.

Points aren’t asked to run teams as much as they used to. Teams have free flowing offenses and want everyone to shoot instead of one or two guys making all the decisions as a coach on the floor. And I say that having just watched the Lakers win playing more traditionally. I just mean in general.

Teams want a tempo pusher who fits into an offense more than a smart lead guard who runs one personally.

The whole nba will be ripping off the Mavs flow offense in 3 years.

[tpols]

Rondo didn't ruin the Lakers spacing this year, he played great. Tough, smart slashers and passers still have a place in today's game.

[Kblaze8855]

Rondo shot 40% from 3 in the playoffs. He can make you pay now.

Rod made 10 threes in the playoffs in his career. The year he was all nba second team he made 12 threes that season. Rod was nice as ****...he just didn’t shoot outside. If you had to respect his 3 he’d be in the hall of fame. I loved Rod. I’d take him all day....he’s just not today’s ideal lead guard ahead of someone like Jamal.

Doesnt make him worse...people play the game their era asks. You should have an advantage playing in the league you shaped your game to fit.

[tpols]

yea but it is an era thing. Rondo's jumper was always broke... but he was forced to practice it more. That and teams sag 10 feet off him. Rondo wouldn't be taking any 3's if he played in the 90s. I'm sure if Rod practiced the shot and had people sagging off him he'd hit some too. Plus his finishing inside scoring game is way nicer. He's bigger than Rondo and even slicker handle. Shit he would break down these wide open lanes so easily it wouldn't even be funny.

[Kblaze8855]

Yes he would. And people would sag off him and he’d still get to the basket. I heard Kenny Smith talk about it once. How teammates clowned him because he couldn’t keep a guy out of the lane who he knew couldnt shoot. He pissed Muggsy off too. Muggsy turned guys with average handles to 2 guards and had bigs bringing the ball up when he would press guards. He was heard to say “Got damn he can dribble” once when Rod frustrated him. He could get anywhere. He would be a 10-12 assists guy now on a team that asked it of him....I’m just not sure who would.

[starface]

I agree with OP and frankly I dont see what this supposed “agenda” is which others are accusing him of.

Murray is a great player, hes emblematic of a new, stronger generation of guards, and Lebron whooped his ass.

Why is a thread praising Jamal Murray being labeled as “agenda drive”? Makes no sense.

[Roundball_Rock]

I suspect he’s the second path. Not entirely a fluke....just...having arrived. Or maybe #2 with just a thin candy coating of #3 with the bubble and current rules and play styles fitting perimeter players.

Yeah, the time off from the end of the RS to the bubble was equivalent to a full offseason. If Murray made a jump to stardom from year 2 and year 3 no one would be surprised but in this case it technically was within the same season and not at the beginning of a new season.

His stats were inflated like everybody's in the bubble but the stardom is real and he will be a star for many years to come.

[Bronbron23]

And just note that Murray is not even an all star in today's era or considered a Top 20 player.

Penny hardaway. Murray is a better 3 point shooter but thats about it. And its tough to say because it was a different day. Most gaurds didn't have a green light like they do now. The focus was more on bigs. They aslo didn't have the benefit of the rules. Put Murray in the 90's and he's not the same player for these reasons.

[CTbasketball92]

I also think we've seen too many people with questionable jumpers eventually become okay at it. I'm sure Rod could get to like 34% from three on three or four attempts a game. He'd def be an all-star, he was nasty.

[Mauzah]

I forgot how nice Strickland was. Pulled up a mix video on youtube and at first I thought 90's Kemba but at the end of the video I thought more Kyrie because of the layup ability.

[kawhileonard2]

Jamal Murray in one playoff series has more 50+ point playoff games than Lebron has in 260 playoff games.

Give Jamal Murry the likes of Wade, Bosh or Shaq or Ben Wallace or Kyrie, Love or Anthony Davis and he would have 6+ titles already.

[SATAN]

There were a lot of good guards in the 90s. Someone like Kenny Anderson would kill it in this era. Not sure if he would actually care about putting up 50 though.

[Gus Hemmingway]

???