How many Chips would LeBron have if he stayed with 1 Franchise his entire career?

[eliteballer]

PED's aside...dude's career his as manufactured as they come.

Jordan Bird Magic Kobe Kareem Wilt Duncan Shaq Russell etc. all spent their primes with 1 or two teams riding out the good and bad years.

Not jumping from ready made squad to ready made squad.

So how many would he have if loyalty factored into the equation?

[3ball]

Lebron would've won with Cleveland in 2011

People forget that Dirk did what lebron thought was impossible - winning with a 1 star team - aka real karma

Dirk stuck it out in Dallas and beat a super-team, so lebron could've stuck it out in Cleveland and beaten the 1-star Mavs

His Cavs were already 60-win 1 seeds and the league favorite in 09/10, with further roster additions coming in 11' - so lebron left right before realizing his expectation.. his subsequent resume is therefore manufactured and distorted

So he would've won in 11' and had a ridiculously experienced and continually-improved cast heading into 12' - they destroy the baby Thunder.. then he gets Kyrie in 2013 - rings all day long.. lebron would have a serious case for goat.. btw, lebron's Cavs were usually top 5 on defense

[Bankaii]

Is he placed on the GOAT franchise with a top 10 undisputed GOAT and the MDE?
Lebron and Shaq win at a MINUMUM 3 rings and then he goes on to win more after Shaq retires.
6-7 maybe?

[Roundball_Rock]

PED's aside...dude's career his as manufactured as they come.

Jordan Bird Magic Kobe Kareem Wilt Duncan Shaq Russell etc. all spent their primes with 1 or two teams riding out the good and bad years.

Not jumping from ready made squad to ready made squad.

So how many would he have if loyalty factored into the equation?

All the bolded you listed spent all or basically all of their primes on stacked teams. :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

PED's aside...dude's career his as manufactured as they come.

Jordan Bird Magic Kobe Kareem Wilt Duncan Shaq Russell etc. all spent their primes with 1 or two teams riding out the good and bad years.

Not jumping from ready made squad to ready made squad.

So how many would he have if loyalty factored into the equation?
The bolded didn't have a single bad season they had to ride out. They had HOF help their entire careers. While the other 3 besides Jordan all demanded trades at one point

[red1]

OP is a kobe stan who just cant let it go.



Let it go dude.

[tpols]

Yup... no star has ever done that before.

It would be like if MJ was pissed at Scottie for his migraine series and loss to Detroit, so he hopped teams to play with clyde drexler and terry porter in a ready made Portland situation. And then when that well ran dry went to go play with David Robinson and Dennis Rodman. And I can't even think of a 90s analogy for playing with Kyrie at the top of his game. I want to say Kevin Johnson but he choked in the Finals, while Irving went Wilt.

All in all you get the point... there's never been a player in prime to team hop around with top talent like Lebron did.

Shaq comes the closest going from penny to kobe to wade but kobe wasnt established on that first team hop.

[FireDavidKahn]

Give the situation and help all those others guy had and he'd have won a lot more in Cleveland.

You're also using Shaq and Magic as examples? LOL.

Magic (and Kobe) pretty much refused to play in the NBA if it wasn't for the Lakers.

[3ball]

Who itt predicted the Magic beating the 09' Cavs? (Magic were a top 5 underdog to ever win playoff series)

The Cavs were the prohibitive league favorite in 09', 10', and would've been heading into 11'

[SouBeachTalents]

Who itt predicted the Magic beating the 09' Cavs? (Magic were a top 5 underdog to ever win playoff series)

The Cavs were the prohibitive league favorite in 09', 10', and would've been heading into 11'
They absolutely wouldn't have been without a major acquisition. The writing was on the wall about them at that point

[red1]

4x finals MVP



Haters lose. :)

[FireDavidKahn]

Who itt predicted the Magic beating the 09' Cavs? (Magic were a top 5 underdog to ever win playoff series)

The Cavs were the prohibitive league favorite in 09', 10', and would've been heading into 11'

And it was James' teammates that shit the bed and that Dwight (and his supporting casts via an ungodly amount of 3's) went nuclear.

LeBron averaged 39 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 8 apg, 1.2 spg and 1.2 bpg and still gets blamed for the loss. It's lunacy.

[3ball]

They absolutely wouldn't have been without a major acquisition. The writing was on the wall about them at that point


they were the league favorite over the champion Lakers in 10', but not the nobody Mavs in 11'?... Makes no sense

They were the league favorite in 2010 despite losing in 09', so why not again in 2011?..

lebron was still getting better and they were adding another all-star caliber piece like they did in both 09' and 10' - they would've been prohibitive favorites..

2011 was a year where a 1-star team won it, so lebron left that ring on the table whether he was with the Heatles, or his ridiculously experienced, perennial 1 seeded Cavs that keep adding pieces

[AirBonner]

I’m convinced that 90% of posters on ish are banned from every other forum/ sports entity out there. **** your worthless opinion

[ELITEpower23]

If he was drafted in which player's spot?

Kobe? To have Shaq?
MJ? To have Pippen?
Duncan? To have Parker?
Magic? To have Kareem?
Bird? To have McHale?

Which spot? He wins more than anyone in all spots anyway but just curious, which one?

[Ainosterhaspie]

Just draft him onto the Pistons and he has 3 titles in 4 years with 2 FMVPs minimum. He was one draft pick away from having an unassailble legacy before signing his second contract.

[AlternativeAcc.]

If he was drafted in which player's spot?

Kobe? To have Shaq?
MJ? To have Pippen?
Duncan? To have Parker?
Magic? To have Kareem?
Bird? To have McHale?

Which spot? He wins more than anyone in all spots anyway but just curious, which one?

+1

What lebron has done is way more impressive than what those other guys did. They were all gifted superstars, great teams, and great coaches which allowed them to garner great chemistry and win early.

Lebron has been forced to start over with brand new players, coaches, and organizations and expected to win within 2 years each time (which he has)

If he was gifted a superstar the caliber of shaq, kareem, or pippen early in his career wed be celebrating lebron surpassing bill Russell in ring count.


We'll settle for quality though :cheers:

[lilteapot]

Lebron would've won with Cleveland in 2011

People forget that Dirk did what lebron thought was impossible - winning with a 1 star team - aka real karma

Dirk stuck it out in Dallas and beat a super-team, so lebron could've stuck it out in Cleveland and beaten the 1-star Mavs

His Cavs were already 60-win 1 seeds and the league favorite in 09/10, with further roster additions coming in 11' - so lebron left right before realizing his expectation.. his subsequent resume is therefore manufactured and distorted

So he would've won in 11' and had a ridiculously experienced and continually-improved cast heading into 12' - they destroy the baby Thunder.. then he gets Kyrie in 2013 - rings all day long.. lebron would have a serious case for goat.. btw, lebron's Cavs were usually top 5 on defense

How do they get Kyrie in 2013 if they're winning championships you idiot?

[BigtimeNBAFan]

Yup... no star has ever done that before.

It would be like if MJ was pissed at Scottie for his migraine series and loss to Detroit, so he hopped teams to play with clyde drexler and terry porter in a ready made Portland situation. And then when that well ran dry went to go play with David Robinson and Dennis Rodman. And I can't even think of a 90s analogy for playing with Kyrie at the top of his game. I want to say Kevin Johnson but he choked in the Finals, while Irving went Wilt.

All in all you get the point... there's never been a player in prime to team hop around with top talent like Lebron did.

Shaq comes the closest going from penny to kobe to wade but kobe wasnt established on that first team hop.

Oh look the retard has chimed in with another idiotic point. "It would be like if MJ was pissed at Scottie. . ."

Yeah Lebron didn't have a Scottie Pippen who was a dream teamer, first ballot hall of famer and led the Bulls to 55 wins after Jordan was retired. Sometimes I feel bad mocking someone so mentally challenged, but God you are stupid.

[TheCorporation]

If he was drafted in which player's spot?

Kobe? To have Shaq?
MJ? To have Pippen?
Duncan? To have Parker?
Magic? To have Kareem?
Bird? To have McHale?

Which spot? He wins more than anyone in all spots anyway but just curious, which one?

+1

/thread

LeBron wins more in anyone's place and no one wins more than him in his. Thanks for making him appear even more GOAT OP :lol

[bison]

Q
I’m convinced that 90% of posters on ish are banned from every other forum/ sports entity out there.

:oldlol:

[bison]

So he would've won in 11' and had a ridiculously experienced and continually-improved cast heading into 12' - they destroy the baby Thunder.. then he gets Kyrie in 2013

:biggums:

Please explain this scenario

[FireDavidKahn]

:biggums:

Please explain this scenario

Kyrie would have not been a great prospect in his scenario.

[Axe]

Kyrie is a #1 pick who has yet to lead a team to a postseason trip on his own alone.

[kawhileonard2]

0 titles in 17 seasons.

[TheGoatest]

How many GOAT perimeter defenders who can average 20-8-7 get drafted by the franchise he's on in his 4th year? If the answer is one, then he would win at least 8 championships.

[Sportal]

Entirely depends on the franchise and the competency of their front office... People like to forget how abysmal his FO were, and how Cleveland was not a destination people wanted to go to.

[Micku]

All the bolded you listed spent all or basically all of their primes on stacked teams. :lol


Duncan wasn't on a stack team in the late 90s and early 00s. The Spurs would suck without him. They never had the talent like the Kings 02 or the Suns of 05-07. I'm shocked that they even won. Tony and Manu started to come of their own in 05 tho. But they still weren't stacked. Not even relative to the era imo.

[EllEffEll]

Lebron would've won with Cleveland in 2011

People forget that Dirk did what lebron thought was impossible - winning with a 1 star team - aka real karma

Dirk stuck it out in Dallas and beat a super-team, so lebron could've stuck it out in Cleveland and beaten the 1-star Mavs

His Cavs were already 60-win 1 seeds and the league favorite in 09/10, with further roster additions coming in 11' - so lebron left right before realizing his expectation.. his subsequent resume is therefore manufactured and distorted

So he would've won in 11' and had a ridiculously experienced and continually-improved cast heading into 12' - they destroy the baby Thunder.. then he gets Kyrie in 2013 - rings all day long.. lebron would have a serious case for goat.. btw, lebron's Cavs were usually top 5 on defense

If Lebron stays, they don't get Kyrie in the draft.

[SouBeachTalents]

Duncan wasn't on a stack team in the late 90s and early 00s. The Spurs would suck without him. They never had the talent like the Kings 02 or the Suns of 05-07. I'm shocked that they even won. Tony and Manu started to come of their own in 05 tho. But they still weren't stacked. Not even relative to the era imo.
Parker/Manu/Bowen with Pop as head coach isn't stacked for their era :biggums: Who the hell else in the mid 2000's had a definitively better supporting cast than that?

[Roundball_Rock]

Parker/Manu/Bowen with Pop as head coach isn't stacked for their era :biggums: Who the hell else in the mid 2000's had a definitively better supporting cast than that?

Not to mention they had Robinson the day Duncan got there.


They never had the talent like the Kings 02 or the Suns of 05-07.

You mentioned only two teams, which didn't even overlap.

Duncan did miss some time in the early 2000's.

2000: 5-3 w/out him
2004: 6-7 w/out him
2005: 9-7 w/out him
Total: 20-17 (44 win pace)

They weren't dominant but they weren't sucking. Compare these to the Lakers' record without Shaq during the same time frame--and they had Kobe.

[Lebron_James]

3 titles in 6 years of playing with Heat/Lakers
1 title in 11 years of playing with Cavs.

Depends if franchise is mess, or he got drafted to good working franchise.Cavs are a mess of a franchise.
Some players get lucky where they get drafted(Kobe to Shaq, Kawhi to Duncan, Duncan to Robinson, Magic to Kareem etc etc), others not.

[Micku]

Parker/Manu/Bowen with Pop as head coach isn't stacked for their era :biggums: Who the hell else in the mid 2000's had a definitively better supporting cast than that?

The Suns. In 05, they had Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, Stoudemire, Quentin Richardson. They had 3 guys in All-nba teams. Stoudemire, Nash and Marion. The Spurs had only Duncan.
Suns had 3 all-stars, Spurs 2.
Suns had like overall 5 guys in double figures, including Nash.
Spurs had overall 4 guys in double figures, including Duncan.

Of course you have the Pistons, but they weren't stacked in terms of all-nba players. They had a team with good players, with Ben Wallace being all time great defensive player. They had more players in all-nba defensive teams than the Spurs, but only slight. While Duncan and Bowen were there in 05, the Pistons had Wallace, Prince,and Billiups.

In Miami in 05, they were more of a duo than they had massive talent like the Suns, but they often got overlooked. They had 5 guy with double digits too. Shaq, Wade, Eddie Jones, Damon Jones, Haslem. But then Haslem was more of a solid role player. Solid defensively, and a nice jumpshot 4, but stick around the mid-range.


But I mentioned the late 90s and the early 00s.

Like the Lakers in the late 90s was more talented top to bottom. They had four guys that were all-stars in 98 with Shaq, Kobe, Eddie Jones, and Nick Van Exel. They had Rick Fox, Horry, Campbell too. The Sonics had better players imo too. Like five guys who had double digits.

And David Robinson fall off compared to what he was in the early to mid 90s. And the Lakers in 99 had more talent. Even when you watch the game, the commentators said the same thing. They were shocked that the Spurs swept them, and they said something along the lines of even though the Lakers have the most talent in the league, they don't play well as a team compared to the Spurs. I have to watch the game again and dig for it, but you get the idea when watching this too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oIyas2hbOc

In the early 00s, I felt like the Mavs had more top talent too with Dirk, Nash, Michael Finley. I think the Kings probably had more talent from 99-04. They still had talent afterwards, but it never translate to a 50 win team.

The Spurs in general were never the top talent. They never were stacked even in their era to me. Especially in the late 90s and early 00s. Specifically in 03 too. Duncan carried them, but they were mostly known for team play. They always maximize their potential even though they weren't as talented as the other teams.

And the reason why I mentioned the Suns and the Kings, is because I think they had the most talent. Aside from the late 90s Lakers.

[eliteballer]

Anyone figure this out?

[RRR3]

LeBron has completely destroyed OP’s life.

[Goldrush25]

So he would've won in 11' and had a ridiculously experienced and continually-improved cast heading into 12' - they destroy the baby Thunder.. then he gets Kyrie in 2013 - rings all day long.. lebron would have a serious case for goat.. btw, lebron's Cavs were usually top 5 on defense

What the hell?

How does he get Kyrie if the Cavs are winning 60 games a year? You realize you have to be a bad team to get a high draft pick, right? And Kyrie was drafted in 2011. Do you mean somehow Cavs get him in a trade? Gonna have to walk me through this one.

[Manny98]

It depends on the market size

If he got drafted to a big market like New York or Los Angeles he would of had 8+ championships because it would be so easy to attract talent and surround him with solid supporting casts every year

If he stayed in Cleveland his entire career he would not have more than 3 championships.

It really shows how winning is a lot due to circumstances rather than actual talent that's why I believe rings are kinda of overrated when comparing all time grests

[Shooter]

If he was drafted in which player's spot?

Kobe? To have Shaq?
MJ? To have Pippen?
Duncan? To have Parker?
Magic? To have Kareem?
Bird? To have McHale?

Which spot? He wins more than anyone in all spots anyway but just curious, which one?

Checkmate :lol

[eliteballer]

Does.

Anyone.

Know.

[Spurs m8]

Probably zero...because he is a coward

And really...he is a 1b at best

[And1AllDay]

If he was drafted in which player's spot?

Kobe? To have Shaq?
MJ? To have Pippen?
Duncan? To have Parker?
Magic? To have Kareem?
Bird? To have McHale?

Which spot? He wins more than anyone in all spots anyway but just curious, which one?

1st page slays are the best :oldlol:

op ran from this post quick :roll:

[FireDavidKahn]

With the Cavs? Maybe 1 or 2.

His FO was historically bad. Worse then the Wolves during the Garnett era (and ever since then)

[coastalmarker99]

With the Cavs? Maybe 1 or 2.

His FO was historically bad. Worse then the Wolves during the Garnett era (and ever since then)


I can see 2 rings for Lebron but I can also see him getting burned out and retiring after 2018 if he had to fully carry the load on both ends of the court for the Cavs for 15 straight years.





While I do personally think he would have about 6 Mvps to his name if he stayed a Cav losing two rings and two finals Mvp as well his finals streak would really hurt.

[kawhileonard2]

1 title in 11 years of playing with Cavs.


And this with playing with Shaq and also Ben Wallace two guys who won as the man.

[kawhileonard2]

If he was drafted in which player's spot?

Kobe? To have Shaq?
MJ? To have Pippen?
Duncan? To have Parker?
Magic? To have Kareem?
Bird? To have McHale?

Which spot? He wins more than anyone in all spots anyway but just curious, which one?

He had Shaq and made round 2. He had Wade and lost as the favorite. He had Kyrie and Love and only got one in 4 years.

The real question is what player became a star playing with Lebron that wasn't a star prior to playing with him?

[eliteballer]

Anyone figure this out?

[kawhileonard2]

0 titles. He had to leave to win

[WhiteKyrie]

Yup... no star has ever done that before.

It would be like if MJ was pissed at Scottie for his migraine series and loss to Detroit, so he hopped teams to play with clyde drexler and terry porter in a ready made Portland situation. And then when that well ran dry went to go play with David Robinson and Dennis Rodman. And I can't even think of a 90s analogy for playing with Kyrie at the top of his game. I want to say Kevin Johnson but he choked in the Finals, while Irving went Wilt.

All in all you get the point... there's never been a player in prime to team hop around with top talent like Lebron did.

Shaq comes the closest going from penny to kobe to wade but kobe wasnt established on that first team hop.

Facts

[Round Mound]

The one with Kyrie and Love.

[eliteballer]

Anyone know?

[kawhileonard2]

1 title in 11 years after leaving. 0 if stayed.

[Jasper]

If you all remember Lebron while in Miami really chose between business or bball 101.
If he stayed in Miami his teams going forward would of been retooled by Riley.

I seriously believe he could of easily have gotten 3-4 more chips.
But he looked to LA because he knew his brand would expand , and even though taxed , he would become a billionaire.

That is the bottom line , business vs bball titles.

[Nb1]

6-7 probably! It's much harder to win when you're playing with new teammates and change teams. Look at all those failed experiences of Durant etc and look how the teams that stuck together playing for years tght like the Warriors are doing. It's just easier when you know exactly what everyone's gonna do then to figure out from scratch and try to adapt the whole time like Lebron. Lebron never joined a superstar team that was doing great for years. He always had to figure out from the scratch on how to win with a total different cast.

Dude won with 3 different teams being the best, crazy. Even a great player like Jordan, as soon as he didn't have his strong core players with him his team did atrociously bad. It's not easy to jump ship (unless you join a team for example like the Suns, Celtics, GSW that are great and together for years). It's easy to stay in your comfort zone playing with the same guys for years.

If Lebron was on the Warriors he'd have 15 rings by now.

[2much_knowledge]

If he was drafted in which player's spot?

Kobe? To have Shaq?
MJ? To have Pippen?
Duncan? To have Parker?
Magic? To have Kareem?
Bird? To have McHale?

Which spot? He wins more than anyone in all spots anyway but just curious, which one?

You can bet your butt all 5 of those win more than just 2 miserable rings with Wade and bosh