What if Wilt had never changed his playstyle after 1966

[coastalmarker99]

In this what-if Wilt after 1966 never changes his playstyle to become an all-round player and instead chooses to keep focusing on scoring. as Wilt, after his career had ended said many times if he had known future generations would be so fixated on scoring and stats he would have never changed his game the way he did and would have put the scoring record way out of sight.

In this what-if how do you think Wilt's legacy would change does he still win the 2 rings he won in real life or does a Wilt that refuses to change his playstyle sabotage those two teams he won two rings on in 1967 and 1972.

For Wilt individually he would most likely have won 11 scoring titles instead of 7 he did in real life as he would of lead the Nba in scoring from 1967 to 1970 in this what-if through he would have not won the assist title in 1968.


Instead of being 7 on the all-time scoring list nowadays it is very likely that Wilt would be the all-time scoring leader with over 40000 points along with having the highest PPG average for his career instead of Jordan.

Wilt could also have won one more Mvp and rebounding title in 1970 if he had not gotten injured 9 games into that season as up to that point Wilt was leading the Nba in rebounding field goal percentage and scoring and the Lakers were 6 and 3 before he got hurt.

He would also have a way higher playoff scoring average then 22.5 for his career as from 1960 to 1966 Wilt would average 33.5 points in the playoffs before he changed his playstyle after 1966.

[coastalmarker99]

It might be strange to think that if Wilt was more selfish that he would have a way better legacy nowadays he sacrificed his stats and more potential records for what only to win 1 ring after 1967 with the Lakers as a old man.

[coastalmarker99]

I will argue that that Wilt allowing himself to become a role player on offence from 1969 to 1973 hurt him and the Lakers and I love Wilt, but I think his reluctance to shoot really hurt the Lakers in the 1973 Finals. He averaged 8.4 FGA & 11.6 pts and watched McMillian shoot (not well at 39%) 21 times per game.

If Wilt takes a couple of more shots and averages 15 to 18 points a game in the finals the Lakers likely win the title in 1973 with Wilt getting the finals MVP. He showed that in game 5 of that series that he could still bring it on offence why did Wilt not display this from games 1 to 4 in 1973 is a mystery to me.

Also in 1969 Wilt should have taken more shots in the 1969 finals instead of Baylor who was puking all over the floor in the finals shooting 40 per cent and playing horrible defence. If he had shot more and is more selfish instead of being passive like LeBron was in the 2011 finals the Lakers win the title in 5 games despite Bvk being a horrible coach in the finals that year.


We see in 1970 through the first nine games of that season before Wilt's knee injury that Wilt was still a monster offensively leading the league in scoring and efficiency and he was going to have a serious case to be the MVP that year if he never got hurt. It is clear to me that Wilt should have made himself the lakers first option sooner with West being made into his second fiddle on offence as the Lakers and Wilt would have been far better for it.

Therefore if Wilt was more selfish scoring-wise with the Lakers instead of copying Russell and being even more passive then him on offence, instead of playing the, I don't shoot. But still, when I do, I shoot 70% from the field and taking 0 to 6 shots in crucial games that the Lakers lost and instead imposed his will offensively instead of being a role player on offence from 1968 to 1973.

There is a higher chance the Lakers win the title in 1969 and 1970 and 1973 which. Gives Wilt 5 rings and three finals MVPs in 1970 1972 and 1973 plus a finals record of 5 and 2.And a career scoring average of 34 to 37 points a game and 36,000 to 40,000 points for his career along with 10 to 11 scoring titles.

[Round Mound]

What i find impressive is Wilt´s defense and shot blocking ability when he waspassed his prime unreal. His rebounding is insane aswell.

[coastalmarker99]

What i find impressive is Wilt´s defense and shot blocking ability when he waspassed his prime unreal. His rebounding is insane aswell.

I do as well man I wonder through does his defence in those Laker years become as great as it was if he is still focused on scoring after 1966.

[Psileas]

I agree, OP. It's overstated how much Wilt becoming a "team player" made him more of a winner, whereas everyone knows how close he already came to beating the Celtics when he was on his high scoring seasons. And it's hypocritical that people blame him for "not stepping up" in certain playoff games or, even worse, in certain crucial moments of the game, i.e, not taking more shots, when NOT taking shots was supposed to be his game from '67 onwards. After all, even the GOAT can get cold if he remains out of the offensive schemes routinely, right? You can't expect someone to suddenly take over the game when you leave him cold all night. Wilt would have won probably the '69 and '70 rings if it was the much more inefficient Baylor the one who stepped down scoring-wise and became a second playmaker instead of him and would have cemented himself even more as the GOAT.

[Roundball_Rock]

He would be viewed more favorably by today's stats obsessed fans. One frequent argument you hear is MJ is the GOAT scorer because his PPG is a tick ahead of Wilt's. That is simply because Wilt changed his roles. If he spent his entire career aiming for scoring the maximum like MJ did Wilt's PPG would be on a tier of its own.

You would think Wilt would get credit for being able to dominate in different roles but that isn't the case.

[coastalmarker99]

I agree, OP. It's overstated how much Wilt becoming a "team player" made him more of a winner, whereas everyone knows how close he already came to beating the Celtics when he was on his high scoring seasons. And it's hypocritical that people blame him for "not stepping up" in certain playoff games or, even worse, in certain crucial moments of the game, i.e, not taking more shots, when NOT taking shots was supposed to be his game from '67 onwards. After all, even the GOAT can get cold if he remains out of the offensive schemes routinely, right? You can't expect someone to suddenly take over the game when you leave him cold all night. Wilt would have won probably the '69 and '70 rings if it was the much more inefficient Baylor the one who stepped down scoring-wise and became a second playmaker instead of him and would have cemented himself even more as the GOAT.

Agreed if things go differently for Wilt in 1962 and 1965 where he lost two game sevens to the Celtics mind you by a combined margin of 3 points we wouldn't be talking about how much Wilt becoming a "team player" made him more of a winner as he would already have 2 rings up to that point and that changes a lot of things as maybe Alex is never hired in 1966 and instead Wilt keeps up his scoring with the 76ers and the Lakers.


And for the record, I think the 76er's finally having a team that could match the stacked Celtics was a bigger factor in Wilt winning rather then him becoming a team player as we saw what a carry job he did in the 1964 playoffs and how much those bum ass Warrior teammates of his let him down once again in the finals that year.

[Honor Boost]

It might be strange to think that if Wilt was more selfish that he would have a way better legacy nowadays he sacrificed his stats and more potential records for what only to win 1 ring after 1967 with the Lakers as a old man.

Shows a good point

[coastalmarker99]

He would be viewed more favorably by today's stats obsessed fans. One frequent argument you hear is MJ is the GOAT scorer because his PPG is a tick ahead of Wilt's. That is simply because Wilt changed his roles. If he spent his entire career aiming for scoring the maximum like MJ did Wilt's PPG would be on a tier of its own.

You would think Wilt would get credit for being able to dominate in different roles but that isn't the case.

Agreed and that was one of Wilt's biggest regrets he said had he known that fans in the future would be so obsessed with scoring he would have never changed his playstyle and instead kept up what he was doing from 1959 to 1966 along with playing longer so that nobody would have a chance in hell to surpass him as the all-time leading scorer and Points per game leader.



Also, Wilt was deeply bitter after his career for not getting that much credit for being able to dominate in different roles and you can see it in his interviews and his books when people only talk about his scoring instead of him as an all-round player with his incredible defence passing, rebounding, shot-blocking and many other things he was good at besides scoring.


I remember an interview where Wilt got very pissed off at the interviewer saying that he was not a good defender in his first seven 7 years before he changed his playstyle to become a team player. The funny thing about that was that Russell said the opposite as in his eyes Wilt as a defensive player was seriously underrated like he Russell was as an offensive player.

[coastalmarker99]

He would be viewed more favorably by today's stats obsessed fans. One frequent argument you hear is MJ is the GOAT scorer because his PPG is a tick ahead of Wilt's. That is simply because Wilt changed his roles. If he spent his entire career aiming for scoring the maximum like MJ did Wilt's PPG would be on a tier of its own.

You would think Wilt would get credit for being able to dominate in different roles but that isn't the case.

Wilt played 29 postseason series, the majority of them played from 1966-73, and Wilt's teams went 18-11 in them. Anyone wondering about Wilt's drop-off in career average points from the regular season to the playoffs (30.1 to 22.5) should know that When Wilt was the main shot taker on his team he put up 39.6 season PPG and 32.9 playoff PPG. in his first seven years.

In 18 series Wilt's teams won because 13 of them was where Wilt scored less than his regular-season average. Wilt's lowest scoring average in a postseason series came against the Warriors in 1973 where he only averaged 7.0 points, but then he also pulled down 23.6 rebounds (way above this season rebounding average of 18.6), outrebounded Nate Thurmond (who came in second to Wilt in rebounding that year) and defensively held him to .37.3 shooting (when Nate shot .44.6 against the rest of the league) and Wilt blocked at least 45 shots in that 5-game romp over Golden State, the team that eliminated Kareem's 60-win Bucks in the previous round that year. Wilt averaged more playing time in his last NBA postseason than he did during his rookie season.

As a Laker, Wilt only averaged 15.8 points on .53.1 fg% in the playoffs. But in the games where LA faced elimination Wilt upped his averages to 25.4 points on .60.2 fg%. Even in his post knee injury years, when he was asked to score more for his team he would do it. When he was not scoring he'd move his focus to another part of his game that he excelled in. His role and statistics were always fluctuating and every version of Wilt was molded by his coaches.

Wilt is the only player to have multiple seasons of leading the league in multiple categories at the same time. One year he lead the league in Rebounds, assists, probably blocks, and FG% while still being a top 5 scorer. He had other years of leading the league in points, rebounds, FG% and probably blocks.

Some people will try to minimize Wilt by bashing his era. Well Wilt faced guys like Russell, Kareem, and Thurmond multiple times. Plus if his era was so weak why is he the only one who produced the outlandish numbers he did? Sure Oscar Robertson averaged a triple-double, but no one came close to the absurd point marks Wilt had. The year he averaged 50 the #2 ppg was 15 less than his. No one crushed their era on an individual level like Wilt.

[coastalmarker99]

He would be viewed more favorably by today's stats obsessed fans. One frequent argument you hear is MJ is the GOAT scorer because his PPG is a tick ahead of Wilt's. That is simply because Wilt changed his roles. If he spent his entire career aiming for scoring the maximum like MJ did Wilt's PPG would be on a tier of its own.

You would think Wilt would get credit for being able to dominate in different roles but that isn't the case.

The one OVERLOOKED stat w/ wilt, BLOCKS... I know, they didnt count them officially then. However, philly did. Go do your homework, they actually filed it. w/ philly he had 8.8 blocks a game!. THINK about that for a sec. It means he had many games w/ over 10 blocks. In other words, he probably ends up w/ the triple double record. And heres the freak stat perhaps of all time, he wouldve ended up w/ 30-40 Quad doubles & probably had 3-5 Quin doubles considering he also led the league in assists in 1968.Wilt would also have the highest per and game score games if all stats were recorded during his era.

During Wilt's last 7 seasons after his scoring seasons, he would lead all players in playoff defensive win shares 5 out of 7 times during his non-scoring title seasons

And if blocks were tracked for Wilt he would also more then likely have the most blocks ever in the playoffs and triple-doubles In 81 known playoff games of recorded block shots. Wilt blocked a total of 590 shots, as a result, Wilt averaged 7.3 blocks per game in the playoffs. Tim Duncan has the most at 568 blocks and he played 251 playoffs games to Wilt's 160 and Wilt in less than 170 games at 81 games has more blocks then Tim Duncan. it's possible that Wilt might have got 1000 blocks in the playoffs which is just ridiculous to think about. Chamberlain blocked about 7-8 bpg in his '72 season (in the known games, which were around 60 I believe.) And, in something like the known 50 games of Wilt's LAST season, in '73, Wilt was around 6 bpg.

There were SIX games in which Chamberlain's recorded blocks on Kareem were kept in the playoffs He had 29 blocks just against Kareem in those six games (and another recap credited Wilt with "numerous" blocks.) Now, you can argue if they were skyhooks, or not, but Wilt was ROUTINELY blocking the "unblockable" skyhook. Given the fact that we know, he blocked some 29 of Kareem's shots in just SIX games, and give the fact that the two played 28 times (and Kareem was averaging close to 30 FGAs against him), and given the fact that Kareem shot just .46.4 against Wilt in that 28 H2H's I honestly believe that Wilt probably blocked at least 20 of Kareem's skyhooks.



Therefore it is no wonder why Wilt was so pissed off after his career as he had to watch his legacy get constantly disrespected by the media and fans or worse get completely swept under the rug by the both of them to prop up guys like Russell Jordan Magic Kareem and others.

[Roundball_Rock]

Why didn't the media like him? He seemed to be a lot more interesting personality than Russell, MJ, or KAJ.

[coastalmarker99]

Why didn't the media like him? He seemed to be a lot more interesting personality than Russell, MJ, or KAJ.

Because he was outspoken plus he was viewed as Goliath Chamberlain undoubtedly was caught in a no-win situation for most of his career with the media "If Wilt wins, everybody says, 'Well, look at him, he's that big.' If Wilt loses everybody says, 'How could he lose, a guy that size?' Chamberlain himself often said: "Nobody roots for Goliath.


Think about how people react to Lebron nowadays when he loses in the playoffs no matter how well he plays or how much his teammates let him down and apply that to Wilt in the 1960s with both fans and media.


Wilt and Lebron are the most similar players of the top ten of all time in that no matter how well they performed in playoff losses it was never enough for most people as the expectation is how can these two talented freaks lose aren't they good enough to solo stacked teams like the 1960's Celtics and 2010 Warriors.

It is ridiculous the amount of crap both Wilt and Lebron cop by the media and fans for dragging garbage teams further than they should of have before they, of course, lose to the much superior teams compared to their's in the finals.



Here is an example 1-7 Wilt's PO-series record vs. Celtics.
1-22 every other team's PO record vs. Celtics from 1957 to 1969 and that one win came when Russell was injured in the 1958 finals so that could be 23 and 0 against every team besides Wilt's 1967 76ers.

17-4 Wilt's PO record against every other team and note that in the 1970 finals Wilt was seriously hurt and shouldn't have even been playing in the first place that season after his knee injury that he had sustained earlier in the year which caused him to miss 70 games of that season

Along with that in the 1971 Wcf against the Bucks with a prime Kareem on their team, Wilt had both his sidekicks out like Lebron had in 2015 and yet he somehow still managed to get a game off that team without both Baylor and West so that record with a little bit of luck could have easily been 19 and 2 I repeat 19 and 2 for Wilt's entire career in the playoff against any other team besides the Celtics.

[Psileas]

The one OVERLOOKED stat w/ wilt, BLOCKS... I know, they didnt count them officially then. However, philly did. Go do your homework, they actually filed it. w/ philly he had 8.8 blocks a game!

I know Pollack has kept blocked stats data, but have they ever been surfaced? Does any site mention this 8.8 average? I know nbastats has estimated his blocking numbers for 2 seasons, but they have been changing certain numbers at times by a good amount and their averages are also slightly different, so I'm not sure I should trust their estimates. Plus, why only 2 seasons?

[coastalmarker99]

I know Pollack has kept blocked stats data, but have they ever been surfaced? Does any site mention this 8.8 average? I know nbastats has estimated his blocking numbers for 2 seasons, but they have been changing certain numbers at times by a good amount and their averages are also slightly different, so I'm not sure I should trust their estimates. Plus, why only 2 seasons?

I know because of Pollack statistical yearbook which began in 1966 at Wilt's request as Wilt thought the stats keepers of other teams especially the Celtics were being biased against him which was true as the Celtics stat keepers sometimes inflated Russell's rebounding totals against Wilt along with lowing Wilt's rebounding totals which really pissed him off and he complained heavily to the Nba about it at the time.

[Psileas]

Along with that in the 1971 Wcf against the Bucks with a prime Kareem on their team, Wilt had both his sidekicks out like Lebron had in 2015 and yet he somehow still managed to get a game off that team without both Baylor and West so that record with a little bit of luck could have easily been 19 and 2 I repeat 19 and 2 for Wilt's entire career in the playoff against any other team besides the Celtics.

Yeah, Wilt, with the exception of one postseason alone (1961), when not winning a title, was losing to the eventual champion, not to random teams that couldn't make it to the end. Among GOATs, only Russell has had a higher "loss to the eventual champion" analogy.

[coastalmarker99]

I know Pollack has kept blocked stats data, but have they ever been surfaced? Does any site mention this 8.8 average? I know nbastats has estimated his blocking numbers for 2 seasons, but they have been changing certain numbers at times by a good amount and their averages are also slightly different, so I'm not sure I should trust their estimates. Plus, why only 2 seasons?

Here is a good example from the time about this bias against Wilt.

Sports Illustrated - March 11, 1968

THE RECORD MAKERS

From time to time there are angry protests from NBA teams and players about the official scoring system in the league. It is decidedly bush, with home-town favouritism blatantly evident in the recording of individual statistics. The NBA Guide, for instance, lists 23 rebounding performances of 40 rebounds or more in a game. Just one of these records was made without the benefit of a home-town statistician. Similarly, only one of the top 36 assist marks was made on the road.

A classic scoring goof was made in a 76er-Bullet game two years ago when the official box score credited Gerry Ward with one field goal in no attempts (1 for 0). There was also the time that Hal Greer took six shots in a game and made seven of them, according to the stat men. And at half time in the All-Star game in January, Greer was credited with making two baskets but only taking one shot.

In a recent game in Evansville, Ind. between Chicago and St. Louis the official scorer recorded only three assists for the Hawks' Len Wilkens, who tops the league in that category. This led to immediate retribution when the Bulls visited St. Louis. At half time a Chicago official complained to Hawks General Manager Marty Blake that the Bulls' Jim Washington had been credited with only two rebounds. Blake replied, " Washington will get another rebound when Wilkens gets an assist in Evansville."

Currently, Wilt Chamberlain is leading the league in complaining about statistics, and probably with good reason. Philadelphia Statistician Harvey Pollack is one of the few well-regarded scorers in the NBA. He won't favour anyone, including Wilt, but he thinks Chamberlain probably has a valid complaint. To check for himself, Pollack decided two Sundays ago to keep his own box score as he watched the telecast of a game between the 76ers and the Hawks in St. Louis. The official statistics showed Wilkens with 13 assists and Chamberlain with four. Pollack, however, credited eight to Wilkens and nine to Chamberlain. "I knew it was coming," Pollack said, "because Chamberlain was catching Wilkens in total assists."

http://www.nba.com/encyclopedia/pollack_wilt.html I went to a Boston-Warriors game in the Boston Garden and secretly kept track of the rebounds of both Wilt and Russell. When the game ended, I went to the press table and asked what the rebound totals were for Wilt and Russell. The response: "Russell 35, Wilt 22." My response, "Well my totals are Wilt 34, Russell 21." They sat open-mouthed when I produced my evidence of the time and type of every rebound that each player had. A Sports Illustrated writer nearby heard the conversation and asked me what it was all about. I told him and the next week SI had a story about the incident. Wilt and I chuckled on reading it, but Red Auerbach didn't. For many years thereafter he didn't talk to me, but how we were reconciled is another story that doesn't concern Wilt.

Sports Illustrated - April 19, 1965

[coastalmarker99]

Yeah, Wilt, with the exception of one postseason alone (1961), when not winning a title, was losing to the eventual champion, not to random teams that couldn't make it to the end. Among GOATs, only Russell has had a higher "loss to the eventual champion" analogy.

THE ASSAILABLE STATISTICAL

Doubling as press agent for the 76ers basketball team and as keeper of the team scores, Philadelphia Harvey Pollack is a two-portfolio man. Life for P.R. Man Pollack is fine; his team has come far this season. But life for Statistician Pollack is agonizing. He has the feeling that he is being rebounded.

Pollack is one of those basketball buffs caught up in the game-within-a-game drama being played at the moment between Wilt Chamberlain of the 76ers and Bill Russell of the Boston Celtics. Officially—or statistically, as they say in the National Basketball Association—Russell and Chamberlain are very close in their skill at getting the ball off the backboards—1,878 to 1,673 for the season. Unofficially, statistically or otherwise, this cannot be true, says Pollack, and he hopes to prove it.

In one recent game Boston scorekeeper, Dennis Whitmarsh counted 32 rebounds for Russell, 31 for Chamberlain. Pollack, at the same game, tallied it more like 18 for Russell and 30 for Chamberlain.

The dispute over which is the better backboard man is, of course, one of those arguments without end. What concerns us is that there should be such an argument at all. The trouble probably lies in the fact that each NBA team hires its own official scorekeeper, each subject to intense home-town pressures. Even so, the wide disparity in counts should properly puzzle fans. Doesn't one simply count the rebounds and leave it at that? The figures should not be Boston statistics or Philadelphia statistics but just plain, old, correct statistics.

American sports fans have long regarded official records as unassailable—a sort of fortress of agate type to which one could retreat when all else failed. That official records should differ dismays us. As an unofficial group, that is. Statistically speaking, of course.

To have those Wilt/Russell totals totally flipped is pretty fishy. on rebounds as They either go out of bounds, or somebody grabbed it. That should be pretty clear-cut. I don't see how they could get some of the discrepancies as listed above.

I guess this shows that the Boston scorekeepers cooked Russell's stats a bit.

It does change my perception of him as I'm fascinated by the rebound differential. between him and Wilt If it's true then Russell got a huge boost to his stats that has to make people look at him differently. I'm assuming those 10 block games of his didn't happen as often as people have said. I am thinking they did this as Russell was the hero of Boston. and they cant have him outplayed in Boston Garden so they did what they had to do to make sure Bill looked good against Wilt.

[coastalmarker99]

Yeah, Wilt, with the exception of one postseason alone (1961), when not winning a title, was losing to the eventual champion, not to random teams that couldn't make it to the end. Among GOATs, only Russell has had a higher "loss to the eventual champion" analogy.

If you take Russell away from that decade and he comes around in the 1970s as Kareem did I honestly think Wilt retires with 8 to 10 titles making him the undisputed goat nowadays as without Russell standing in his way there is no need for Wilt to change his playstyle after 1966.




Therefore Wilt without Russell most likely finishes his career with 7 to 10 titles 5 to 6 MVPs 10 plus scoring titles numerous finals records such as scoring and rebounding against those 1960's Laker teams along with 40k points and the highest PPG average by a significant margin to cap it off that's undisputed goat territory right there.


And honestly, that 7 to 10 title prediction is a safe pick as Wilt easily for his career could have had a 90.47 percentage of winning against non-Russell teams with a little bit of luck in 1970 and 1971. Wilt in real-life finished his career with an 80 percent winning percentage against non-Russell teams. So no matter how you want to put it Wilt is getting a lot of rings without Russell standing in his way throughout the 1960s.