Lebron's success is mostly accumulated

[Walk on Water]

Come on. He's won 4 rings and 4 MVPS partly because of how long he's played. Yes, his longevity deserves credit. But his losses have also accumulated and like I said, you must look at both sides of the equation. Kevin Durant smoked Lebron twice. You can't discount that. Sure he was on GSW but he looked better. Eye test. KD made it look easy while Lebron stat padded and looked like he was doing a triathlon and struggling.

Yes he's going to end up with a lot of rebounds, but he's never had a good rebounding year, in particular. Not for his size at least. Yes he has more points than Jordan. But Jordan has the scoring titles.

LBJ has got his 4th title in 17 years. And 2 of them were really iffy. But Jordan won his first 6 titles in 13 years. That's a big difference in percentage. If Lebron catches Jordan in titles it's because of accumulation. Look at Don Nelson. Is he the best coach of all time just because he's won the most regular season games? It's a stat that has been accumulated through the years.

Call me when Lebron has more scoring titles, All NBA Defense awards, and championships. The accumulated stats that LBJ has are not better than what Jordan has and those are all the important things.

[8Ball]

Call me when Jordan catches up to LeBron in all time points.

Not LeBron's fault Jordan doesn't have longevity.

[DoctorP]

Lebrons an ironman similar to kareem.

[Ainosterhaspie]

That's what's so impressive. He was first team all NBA 15 years ago and he's still first team all-NBA. No one has been this good this long. Peak as high as anyone and unrivaled length of prime. MJ had to tap out after 9 years and take a break, then same thing again after 3 years. Meanwhile, LeBron's about to embark on year 18 and still is the best player in the game, top two MVP voting now, top two 15 years ago. No one has been at the top this long and he's still going.

[light]

Bron was considered the GOAT by Oscar Robertson by 2010.

By 2012 Larry Bird said no one in history was better than LeBron.

Nothing to do with accumulation.

[Walk on Water]

Bron was considered the GOAT by Oscar Robertson by 2010.

By 2012 Larry Bird said no one in history was better than LeBron.

Nothing to do with accumulation.


They were projecting what might happen later on.

[Walk on Water]

That's what's so impressive. He was first team all NBA 15 years ago and he's still first team all-NBA. No one has been this good this long. Peak as high as anyone and unrivaled length of prime. MJ had to tap out after 9 years and take a break, then same thing again after 3 years. Meanwhile, LeBron's about to embark on year 18 and still is the best player in the game, top two MVP voting now, top two 15 years ago. No one has been at the top this long and he's still going.


Yes he gets credit for longevity. But that isn't everything. That's a bonus.

[ThatCoolKid]

Championships in the 90s are worth half of championships from the 2010s. Much more talent in the league and player mobility makes it much harder to win a chip. Jordan had the best team for a decade and beat up on teams he was supposed to beat. Lebron had to face sophisticated modern rivals with much more talent.

[Walk on Water]

Call me when Jordan catches up to LeBron in all time points.

Not LeBron's fault Jordan doesn't have longevity.


But Jordan has the 10 scoring titles. Like I said, Lebron has more points because he's played more games. Scoring titles are a more accurate depiction of your scoring ability.

[Walk on Water]

Championships in the 90s are worth half of championships from the 2010s. Much more talent in the league and player mobility makes it much harder to win a chip. Jordan had the best team for a decade and beat up on teams he was supposed to beat. Lebron had to face sophisticated modern rivals with much more talent.


Yes, but Lebron lost more than he won to sophisticated rivals. The team he just beat is worse than any team in the 90s finals. Jordan faced much tougher competition. Karl Malone, John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Barkley, etc.. Lebron didn't face much this year.

Championships in the 90s are worth 3 championships of today.

[ThatCoolKid]

Yes, but Lebron lost more than he won to sophisticated rivals. The team he just beat is worse than any team in the 90s finals. Jordan faced much tougher competition. Karl Malone, John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Barkley, etc.. Lebron didn't face much this year.

Championships in the 90s are worth 3 championships of today.

If you put Karl Malone, Magic Johnson, and Barkely all on the same team and had them play Jordan then maybe I would be impressed. Lebron can easily beat lesser solo stars.

[Walk on Water]

If you put Karl Malone, Magic Johnson, and Barkely all on the same team and had them play Jordan then maybe I would be impressed. Lebron can easily beat lesser solo stars.


Yes he can easily beat lesser solo stars like Damian Lillard and Jimmy Butler.

[MadDog]

The longevity argument is overrated. LeBron is playing with another superstar and franchise caliber player in AD, whose probably top 2 or 3 overall at this point. Which also aids his play statistically. But if you told Jordan nobody would care who he joined post 1998, or that you would drop him onto a contending team with another superstar. While he gets to pad his career totals, and that he would be PRAISED for that? He'd ask where do I sign :oldlol:

LeBron playing right now is impressive, but to say he's GOAT for it? GOAT for playing as long/longer than Kareem/Magic/Russell/Kobe/Jordan and still having less rings? For upping his career totals in a league where everyone drops numbers? Not even close.

[Baller789]

The longevity argument is overrated. LeBron is playing with another superstar and franchise caliber player in AD, whose probably top 2 or 3 overall at this point. Which also aids his play statistically. But if you told Jordan nobody would care who he joined post 1998, or that you would drop him onto a contending team with another superstar. While he gets to pad his career totals, and that he would be PRAISED for that? He'd ask where do I sign :oldlol:

LeBron playing right now is impressive, but to say he's GOAT for it? GOAT for playing as long/longer than Kareem/Magic/Russell/Kobe/Jordan and still having less rings? For upping his career totals in a league where everyone drops numbers? Not even close.

Lebrontards don't understand that concept. They'll just spout out some longevity achievents like headless chickens.

[Drygon]

Lebrontards don't understand that concept. They'll just spout out some longevity achievents like headless chickens.

Yup.

[Drygon]

Call me when Jordan catches up to LeBron in all time points.

Not LeBron's fault Jordan doesn't have longevity.

By your logic, Karl Malone is a better player than Lebron with his longevity...


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkE1rPwUwAA_wVq?format=jpg&name=small

[Baller789]

by your logic, karl malone is a better player than lebron with his longevity...


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/eke1rpwuwaa_wvq?format=jpg&name=small

game over

[Shooter]

But Jordan has the 10 scoring titles. Like I said, Lebron has more points because he's played more games. Scoring titles are a more accurate depiction of your scoring ability.

Regular season scoring :lol

Everyone knows LeBron is the playoff scoring leader do I need to post it again?

https://i.postimg.cc/x12hpMjy/aa_records.png

[Drygon]

Cool. MJ still has the highest scoring averages in NBA history for playoffs + regular season.

[Baller789]

Aaaanddf Shooter just embarasses himself by posting more longevity stats.

We just talked about how Lebrontards just post longevity stats a couple of stats ago.

So cringeworthy.

[Roundball_Rock]

MJ stans continue their desperation: now longevity is bad in sports. It is simply unfair he has been so great so long. :lol

There is KAJ, LeBron in longevity among the top level ATG's and then there is everybody else. (HM: to K. Malone if you are talking top 20 AT players.)

[Baller789]

MJ stans continue their desperation: now longevity is bad in sports. It is simply unfair he has been so great so long. :lol

There is KAJ, LeBron in longevity among the top level ATG's and then there is everybody else. (HM: to K. Malone if you are talking top 20 AT players.)

Who said longevity was bad?

Well actually you did. Lol.

Easy work.

[Shooter]

Aaaanddf Shooter just embarasses himself by posting more longevity stats.

We just talked about how Lebrontards just post longevity stats a couple of stats ago.

So cringeworthy.

They're not longevity stats they're "anti 1st round exit" stats or even "10 finals club" stats

Check mate baby boi

[Roundball_Rock]

Who said longevity was bad?

Well actually you did. Lol.

Easy work.

Jordan stans have been bitching about how unfair LeBron's longevity is for months and that is implicit in the OP. Try to keep up. He was a MVP candidate in 2006 and still in 2020. That is unheard of.

[Baller789]

They're not longevity stats they're "anti 1st round exit" stats or even "10 finals club" stats

Check mate baby boi

Yes they are longevity stats my man. Don't act du... Wait you actually are. Lol

[Baller789]

Jordan stans have been bitching about how unfair LeBron's longevity is for months and that is implicit in the OP. Try to keep up. He was a MVP candidate in 2006 and still in 2020. That is unheard of.
Why are you making your arguments? Lol

[Shooter]

Yes they are longevity stats my man. Don't act du... Wait you actually are. Lol

You're hurt. And that's okay. It's 2020 and LeConsensus fam is living good. Like I said my son, they're not longevity stats they're "anti 1st round exit" stats or even "10 finals club" stats

Check mate baby boi


https://media.giphy.com/media/6cYxFGG8ZdOQ3iwEDc/giphy.gif

[Roundball_Rock]

You're hurt. And that's okay. It's 2020 and LeConsensus fam is living good. Like I said my son, they're not longevity stats they're "anti 1st round exit" stats or even "10 finals club" stats

Check mate baby boi

It is odd to call those longevity stats. LeBron has been in the playoffs 14 times, Jordan 13 times. Longevity would be relevant if LeBron had 19 playoff appearances and Jordan 13. It is a product of LeBron consistently going deeper in the playoffs than Jordan did (adding a game to the first round helps on the margins as well, but their teams usually swept/were swept or won 3-1/4-1 so we aren't talking going from 3-0 to 4-3 or something in practice). LeBron's briefest playoff run is 11 games. Jordan had "runs" of 3, 3, 4 games and a couple at 10.

[8Ball]

Lebrontards don't understand that concept. They'll just spout out some longevity achievents like headless chickens.

Aww too bad Jordan has no longevity.

[Baller789]

2 low iq posters again. Threads about how Lebron's success is mostly accumulated, then two clowns actually agree with the thread premise.

That's hilarious.

Keep goin bois!

[8Ball]

MJ stans continue their desperation: now longevity is bad in sports. It is simply unfair he has been so great so long. :lol

There is KAJ, LeBron in longevity among the top level ATG's and then there is everybody else. (HM: to K. Malone if you are talking top 20 AT players.)

There is no argument on Jordan side over peak longevity.

They hate it. It eats them up that Jordan needed Load Management.

[8Ball]

2 low iq posters again. Threads about how Lebron's success is mostly accumulated, then two clowns actually agree with the thread premise.

That's hilarious.

Keep goin bois!

Looks like you need to win 1 game at a time.

So you accumulate stats with every game that you play.

What a novel concept.

[Baller789]

Aww too bad Jordan has no longevity.

So what's Lebron's winning finals percentage again?

[Baller789]

Looks like you need to win 1 game at a time.

So you accumulate stats with every game that you play.

What a novel concept.

Awww no reading comprehension, boohooo.

You understand that I have to go down to your level right?

[Baller789]

There is no argument on Jordan side over peak longevity.

They hate it. It eats them up that Jordan needed Load Management.
What is load management?

[8Ball]

Awww no reading comprehension, boohooo.

You understand that I have to go down to your level right?

Meltdown after meltdown.

It never stops.

[Roundball_Rock]

There is no argument on Jordan side over peak longevity.

They hate it. It eats them up that Jordan needed Load Management.

Yup. That is what rankles them, that Jordan lacks it (by LeBron/KAJ standards) and that he may have been able to do it physically but he kept taking years off for non-physical reasons.

The argument is LeBron is a compiler. He won 4 MVP's in 5 seasons--something MJ or KAJ even never did. KAJ won 4 in 6 and 5 in 7 while MJ's best stretch was 3 in 5 years.

Phillip Rivers is a compiler. A player who was good for a long time and will rack up good cumulative totals but was never the superstar QB others with similar or slightly lesser TD and yardage totals were.

Rank Player TD Years Tm

1 Drew Brees 556 2001-2020 2TM
2 Tom Brady 553 2000-2020 2TM
3 Peyton Manning 539 1998-2015 2TM
4 Brett Favre + 508 1991-2010 4TM
5 Dan Marino+ 420 1983-1999 mia
6 Philip Rivers 401 2004-2020 2TM
7 Aaron Rodgers 377 2005-2020 gnb
8 Ben Roethlisberger 373 2004-2020 pit
9 Eli Manning 366 2004-2019 nyg
10 Fran Tarkenton+ 342 1961-1978 2TM

Two obvious outliers.

[8Ball]

What is load management?

Quitting for 1 year for Load Management.

[Baller789]

Quitting for 1 year for Load Management.

And what was Kawhi doing last year?

[8Ball]

Yup. That is what rankles them, that Jordan lacks it (by LeBron/KAJ standards) and that he may have been able to do it physically but he kept taking years off for non-physical reasons.

The argument is LeBron is a compiler. He won 4 MVP's in 5 seasons--something MJ or KAJ even never did. KAJ won 4 in 6 and 5 in 7 while MJ's best stretch was 3 in 5 years.

For years they hammered LeBron on whatever they could find.

Now its overwhelming that LeBron has Jordan beat on peak longevity. There is no argument. No defence.


Year 18 and LeBron just doesn't stop. LeBron is already training for year 18. How can a man keep coming year after year without retiring?


When you think it's over, Bron goes and builds himself another team in another city.

[Baller789]

Meltdown after meltdown.

It never stops.

Again no rebuttal. Allegation of meltdown are all you can post.

Try again.

[MadDog]

Who said longevity was bad?

Well actually you did. Lol.

Easy work.

Nobody thinks longevity is bad. The goalposts are moving because they're only NOW realizing LeBron's weak "longevity" argument. He gets to pad his career totals in a league where everyone is dropping insane numbers. Checkout this last playoffs. Mitchell averaged 36/5/5, Luka 31/9/9, Embiid 30/12, Harden 30/7/6. :oldlol: And if they want to switch the discussion back to winning? LeBron still has less rings than half of the "top 10". But in significantly more games played. Where is the "GOAT" argument? :confusedshrug:

[Walk on Water]

I didn't say Lebron is bad for having longevity. But then more rings are expected. If Lebron plays 22 quality years, he better have at least 7 or 8 rings to be considered a GOAT candidate. I don't care about how many times he makes the playoffs, I'm talking about how many times he wins the chip vs how many attempts he's had. If he does get to 6 rings, it will have taken him a minimum of 19 seasons. I don't care about him making the Finals, I'm talking about winning the finals. 4 out of 17 is not as good as Jordan winning 6 in his first 13 years and never losing the finals.

Like I said if making the finals is more important and losing has no consequences, then what if someone came up and made 20 Finals and lost all of them? Would you call him the Goat?

Also, this season there were so many factors. 1. No other good competition 2. Anthony Davis 3. The Bubble

[TheGoatest]

Lebron's success is mostly accumulated

Jordan's success is mostly Pippenulated

[Walk on Water]

Jordan's success is mostly Pippenulated


So Pippen is Goat?

[Trollsmasher]

LeBron has by consensus at worst a 1b peak

get the fvck outta here

[Walk on Water]

LeBron has by consensus at worst a 1b peak

get the fvck outta here


I know what I know. Been watching NBA my whole life.

[DMAVS41]

Yes he gets credit for longevity. But that isn't everything. That's a bonus.

You could say the same thing about peak play.

Jordan gets credit for peak play, but that isn't everything. That's a bonus.

Also, we have to stop pretending that Lebron's peak was unimpressive or something. At his peak, Lebron is on the short list of best player ever. I agree Jordan picked higher and came through in the most important games at a higher level, but this notion that Lebron didn't have an impressive peak is just false.

I don't think Lebron has caught Jordan yet, but the notion that being in the conversation for best player in the league for what might amount to close to 20 years by the time he's done...is somehow not that relevant...is one of the dumbest takes ever. Each year Lebron is this good he gives his team a real shot at winning the title...and what do you know...they just won another title. His title window as best player on the team is hugely valuable when considering all-time rankings.

To argue otherwise is just ignorant.

[Baller789]

Jordan's success is mostly Pippenulated
So corny.

[Wally450]

I know what I know. Been watching NBA my whole life.

So, 13 years?

[Baller789]

You could say the same thing about peak play.

Jordan gets credit for peak play, but that isn't everything. That's a bonus.

Also, we have to stop pretending that Lebron's peak was unimpressive or something. At his peak, Lebron is on the short list of best player ever. I agree Jordan picked higher and came through in the most important games at a higher level, but this notion that Lebron didn't have an impressive peak is just false.

I don't think Lebron has caught Jordan yet, but the notion that being in the conversation for best player in the league for what might amount to close to 20 years by the time he's done...is somehow not that relevant...is one of the dumbest takes ever. Each year Lebron is this good he gives his team a real shot at winning the title...and what do you know...they just won another title. His title window as best player on the team is hugely valuable when considering all-time rankings.

To argue otherwise is just ignorant.

Lebron's peak longevity is really impressive.

It's that his fangirls just overrate him.

[ArbitraryWater]

Come on. He's won 4 rings and 4 MVPS partly because of how long he's played. Yes, his longevity deserves credit. But his losses have also accumulated and like I said, you must look at both sides of the equation. Kevin Durant smoked Lebron twice. You can't discount that. Sure he was on GSW but he looked better. Eye test. KD made it look easy while Lebron stat padded and looked like he was doing a triathlon and struggling.

Yes he's going to end up with a lot of rebounds, but he's never had a good rebounding year, in particular. Not for his size at least. Yes he has more points than Jordan. But Jordan has the scoring titles.

LBJ has got his 4th title in 17 years. And 2 of them were really iffy. But Jordan won his first 6 titles in 13 years. That's a big difference in percentage. If Lebron catches Jordan in titles it's because of accumulation. Look at Don Nelson. Is he the best coach of all time just because he's won the most regular season games? It's a stat that has been accumulated through the years.

Call me when Lebron has more scoring titles, All NBA Defense awards, and championships. The accumulated stats that LBJ has are not better than what Jordan has and those are all the important things.

but he won his 4 MVP's seasons in the first 10 yrs?

And its not like playing longer just gives you a hand-out at some point. it doesnt get easier to win a title.


But anyway, Bron's 5 best years are like among the best 15-20 years played in NBA history, so this is moot anyway.

[ThatCoolKid]

All success is accumulated you dumb sh*t, there's only one championship a year :lol

[TheGoatest]

So corny.

https://live.staticflickr.com/4149/5046091402_029de93f24_n.jpg

[8Ball]

All success is accumulated you dumb sh*t, there's only one championship a year :lol

Yes you accumulate accomplishments game by game.

This is suddenly a novel concept to these retards.

[MaxPlayer]

Things that are now bad thanks to LeBron:

Assists
FG%
Advanced Stats
Conference Titles
Being the primary ball-handler
Winning rings for multiple franchises
The Bubble
Winning without Pippen
Having a social conscience
And now, Longevity

What did I miss?

[DMAVS41]

Lebron's peak longevity is really impressive.

It's that his fangirls just overrate him.

At times they have and perhaps some still do, but what is overrating him at this point?

[8Ball]

Jordan's success is mostly accumulated.

He didn't do it in just 6 years, it took him 15 year career to accumulate all his success. :roll:

Dumbass argument that the tards eat up all day.

[Baller789]

Jordan's success is mostly accumulated.

He didn't do it in just 6 years, it took him 15 year career to accumulate all his success. :roll:

Dumbass argument that the tards eat up all day.
So what is Lebron's accumulated finals record?

I don't really expect you to answer this because you have no cajones.

Next!

[8Ball]

You tell me what the record is and why it even matters.

[Baller789]

You tell me what the record is and why it even matters.

Deflecting again

*Facepalms*

[8Ball]

Deflecting again

*Facepalms*

Well I have no idea why it even matters so I don't care.

You explain why it matters.

If its too hard than we move on.

[Baller789]

Well I have no idea why it even matters so I don't care.

You explain why it matters.

If its too hard than we move on.

If isn't too hard for you, why deflect the question tho?
Just answer it. You too embarassed?

[TheCorporation]

By your logic, Karl Malone is a better player than Lebron with his longevity...


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkE1rPwUwAA_wVq?format=jpg&name=small

This guy is posting reg season #s :lol

No one cares about regular season :lol

Do playoffs. Bye.

[Roundball_Rock]

You could say the same thing about peak play.

Jordan gets credit for peak play, but that isn't everything. That's a bonus.

Also, we have to stop pretending that Lebron's peak was unimpressive or something. At his peak, Lebron is on the short list of best player ever. I agree Jordan picked higher and came through in the most important games at a higher level, but this notion that Lebron didn't have an impressive peak is just false.

Yup. There is a near consensus that 1) Jordan had the better peak 2) LeBron has the better longevity. How people weight the two, along with other criterions, determines where they come out but Jordan fans are acting like Jordan's peak blows LeBron's away. They did this with KAJ, Wilt, Russell, Shaq too. To them Jordan's peak is on another tier. That simply is not the case. All these guys have comparable peaks and some arguably better than MJ's.

LeBron isn't Reggie Miller chugging along at a borderline all-star level for nearly 20 years. LeBron was second in MVP in 06' and second again 14 years later. That is unheard of.


This guy is posting reg season #s :lol

No one cares about regular season :lol

Do playoffs. Bye.

The implication is Malone's peak/prime=LeBron's . That is absurd. Malone was the 3rd or 4th best player of his era. LeBron is a candidate for GOAT.

[TheCorporation]

Yup. There is a near consensus that 1) Jordan had the better peak 2) LeBron has the better longevity. How people weight the two, along with other criterions, determines where they come out but Jordan fans are acting like Jordan's peak blows LeBron's away. They did this with KAJ, Wilt, Russell, Shaq too. To them Jordan's peak is on another tier. That simply is not the case. All these guys have comparable peaks and some arguably better than MJ's.

LeBron isn't Reggie Miller chugging along at a borderline all-star level for nearly 20 years. LeBron was second in MVP in 06' and second again 14 years later. That is unheard of.



The implication is Malone's peak/prime=LeBron's . That is absurd. Malone was the 3rd or 4th best player of his era. LeBron is a candidate for GOAT.

+1

Finals

LeBron 10
Kareem 10
Malone 2

Next! :lol

[Baller789]

+1

Finals

LeBron 10
Kareem 10
Malone 2

Next! :lol

Posting finals appearances like its the be end all.

Posted like a true Lebrontard. Congratulations!

[TheCorporation]

Posting finals appearances like its the be end all.

Posted like a true Lebrontard. Congratulations!

10 > 6 > 2

Keep up

[Baller789]

10 > 6 > 2

Keep up

Yup certified Lebrontard.

[Honor Boost]

Arent all achievements or stats accumlated? Or you just want to compare 1 player season to another, I'm confused. Clarify

[MadDog]

Arent all achievements or stats accumlated? Or you just want to compare 1 player season to another, I'm confused. Clarify

You're missing the point. Career totals are being pigeonholed into a sport where the standard is per game. Been that way since the merger. Longevity matters, but at some point simply racking up your totals means what? In LeBron's case he'll be padding career totals in a league where everyone is thriving. Look at this last playoffs.

Mitchell: 36/5/5
Luka: 31/9/9
Embiid: 30 & 12
Harden: 30/7/6
Murray: 27/7/6
Butler: 26/10/8 in the finals :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

+1

Finals

LeBron 10
Kareem 10
Malone 2

Next! :lol

Notice they never say "0-2" for Malone/Stockton? Losing in the finals were badges of honor for them.

[Brasileiro]

LeBron was the goat by 2009

[Shooter]

You're missing the point. Career totals are being pigeonholed into a sport where the standard is per game. Been that way since the merger. Longevity matters, but at some point simply racking up your totals means what? In LeBron's case he'll be padding career totals in a league where everyone is thriving. Look at this last playoffs.

Mitchell: 36/5/5
Luka: 31/9/9
Embiid: 30 & 12
Harden: 30/7/6
Murray: 27/7/6
Butler: 26/10/8 in the finals :oldlol:

3ball alt exposed :lol

Why do you make it so easy to spot you out? Time for another account now

[Walk on Water]

LeBron was the goat by 2009

No that was Kobe’s era and Lebron admitted Kobe was better than him at the time.

[Gohan]

The longevity argument is overrated. LeBron is playing with another superstar and franchise caliber player in AD, whose probably top 2 or 3 overall at this point. Which also aids his play statistically. But if you told Jordan nobody would care who he joined post 1998, or that you would drop him onto a contending team with another superstar. While he gets to pad his career totals, and that he would be PRAISED for that? He'd ask where do I sign :oldlol:

LeBron playing right now is impressive, but to say he's GOAT for it? GOAT for playing as long/longer than Kareem/Magic/Russell/Kobe/Jordan and still having less rings? For upping his career totals in a league where everyone drops numbers? Not even close.

This has to be one of the most objective posts I have seen on this board.

100% accurate

[And1AllDay]

This has to be one of the most objective posts I have seen on this board.

100% accurate


no slick its not

if you guys are really worried about longevity lets just take the best 10 years for both players and compare them

good luck with that :oldlol:

ill be back to roast you

[8Ball]

Longevity argument is not overrated.

Jordan just has no argument longevity wise.

Zero.

So you don't like the criteria. Too bad Greatness has longevity in it by definition.

[Roundball_Rock]

3ball alt exposed :lol

Why do you make it so easy to spot you out? Time for another account now

The same people saying stats are goosed now are the same people who say MJ's teammates would score less today. :lol

[And1AllDay]

The same people saying stats are goosed now are the same people who say MJ's teammates would score less today. :lol

:roll::roll: Dr Rock schoolin the kids

[And1AllDay]

Longevity argument is not overrated.

Jordan just has no argument longevity wise.

Zero.

So you don't like the criteria. Too bad Greatness has longevity in it by definition.

i erased longevity argument with a new thread


they are shook now. nothing to say

[Micku]

Come on. He's won 4 rings and 4 MVPS partly because of how long he's played. Yes, his longevity deserves credit. But his losses have also accumulated and like I said, you must look at both sides of the equation. Kevin Durant smoked Lebron twice. You can't discount that. Sure he was on GSW but he looked better. Eye test. KD made it look easy while Lebron stat padded and looked like he was doing a triathlon and struggling.

Yes he's going to end up with a lot of rebounds, but he's never had a good rebounding year, in particular. Not for his size at least. Yes he has more points than Jordan. But Jordan has the scoring titles.

LBJ has got his 4th title in 17 years. And 2 of them were really iffy. But Jordan won his first 6 titles in 13 years. That's a big difference in percentage. If Lebron catches Jordan in titles it's because of accumulation. Look at Don Nelson. Is he the best coach of all time just because he's won the most regular season games? It's a stat that has been accumulated through the years.

Call me when Lebron has more scoring titles, All NBA Defense awards, and championships. The accumulated stats that LBJ has are not better than what Jordan has and those are all the important things.


It's not just longevity. It's longevity in a very high level. MJ had longevity too, especially compared to his peers. But LeBron is something else that we haven't seen before. I would say it's reaching beyond the lvls of Karl Malone and Kareem.

It's true that MJ accomplish more in less time. But you can see the obviously difference in the gap of his peak/prime till what he was in 96-98. LeBron is less obvious. Some ppl say it's he's even better, although I don't hold this opinion.

I think what's crazy impressive is how he kept his athleticism. I think he is slower, but he is still so good. You can argue that MJ have better peak, but I think LeBron longevity is better.

[Roundball_Rock]

MJ fans bring up longevity when it is convenient. They will point to him scoring 50 at 39 years old or whatever he was.


It's not just longevity. It's longevity in a very high level.

Yeah, he was 2nd in MVP in 2006 and 2nd again in 2020. That is 14 years apart. KAJ is the only one who comes close if you talk about top 5 finishes (1970 and 1986) but he wasn't a real MVP candidate (usually only 2-3 people, like LeBron and Giannis this year) when he was finishing 4th/5th in the mid-80's.


Dr Rock schoolin the kids

:cheers:

[Turbo Slayer]

Its not fair to say that LeBron has just been accumulating stats or whatever that means. The dude has been playing stellar, top of the line basketball for what? 10+ years? He also has one of the highest peaks ever that is in contention for best peak of all-time.

:D

[Walk on Water]

It's not just longevity. It's longevity in a very high level. MJ had longevity too, especially compared to his peers. But LeBron is something else that we haven't seen before. I would say it's reaching beyond the lvls of Karl Malone and Kareem.

It's true that MJ accomplish more in less time. But you can see the obviously difference in the gap of his peak/prime till what he was in 96-98. LeBron is less obvious. Some ppl say it's he's even better, although I don't hold this opinion.

I think what's crazy impressive is how he kept his athleticism. I think he is slower, but he is still so good. You can argue that MJ have better peak, but I think LeBron longevity is better.


Yes Lebron has the longevity. But keep in mind he does PEDS and spends 1 million a year on his body.

[MadDog]

This has to be one of the most objective posts I have seen on this board.

100% accurate

:cheers:


MJ fans bring up longevity when it is convenient. They will point to him scoring 50 at 39 years old or whatever he was.

Using longevity as your ONLY argument isn't the same thing as bringing it up. The former is a LeBron fan special :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

Its not fair to say that LeBron has just been accumulating stats or whatever that means. The dude has been playing stellar, top of the line basketball for what? 10+ years? He also has one of the highest peaks ever that is in contention for best peak of all-time.

:D

Exactly. They make it seem as if LeBron was Reggie Miller and chugging along at a borderline all-star level for two decades, not a MVP candidate from 2006 onward with a peak dominant enough to win 4 MVP's in 5 years (something even KAJ, MJ did not do).

[8Ball]

:cheers:



Using longevity as your ONLY argument isn't the same thing as bringing it up. The former is a LeBron fan special :oldlol:

Definition of "Great" as per dictionary:

1. notably large in size

2. large in number or measure

3. remarkable in magnitude, degree, or effectiveness

Longevity is in every single one of those definitions of greatness. The peak of it is just overwhelming.

Definition of "Greatness"

1. the quality or state of being great


It ain't just longevity my friend. It's peak longevity. Being a top 3 player in the league for 16 years straight and competing in the finals for 10 of those 17 years.

[Shooter]

Definition of "Great" as per dictionary:

1. notably large in size

2. large in number or measure

3. remarkable in magnitude, degree, or effectiveness

Longevity is in every single one of those definitions of greatness. The peak of it is just overwhelming.

Definition of "Greatness"

1. the quality or state of being great


It ain't just longevity my friend. It's peak longevity. Being a top 3 player in the league for 16 years straight and competing in the finals for 10 of those 17 years.

ETHER

And that's what the kids don't get :lol

[8Ball]

And "Greatest" is just a superlative of "Great".

So by definition, greatest player of all time MUST include peak longevity as one of the major components of the criteria.


Thing is, we are measuring the Greatness of a certain individual player by using team achievements "championships" as a main requirement.

Championships are part of the component, but not the only component.

There is so much more, and Jordan can't add any more to it while LeBron is.

[Micku]

Yes Lebron has the longevity. But keep in mind he does PEDS and spends 1 million a year on his body.

There's a lot of factors to consider. One, perimeter play is much easier now compared to previous eras. Second, the coaching and spacing allow for more efficient offense. Third, nutrition and workout is more sophisticated now.

You also gott'a consider LeBron outlasted his peers too. Wade was the closest to his lvl in his prime, but his body broke down. Carmelo was there, but his style and his body couldn't keep up. Bosh unfortunately had to retire. Dwight Howard isn't as dominant anymore because the league has changed and his injuries. CP3 is still here, but he isn't as good as he once was. And you can see he is slowing down a bit, but his skill is still amazing.

LeBron is the only dude who is playing at similar level for like 10 years. And he is smarter now. He is a freak of nature physically and he keeps his body more in shape than any other player. He doesn't have the skill game like James Harden, Curry or even KD, but he doesn't have to. He just relies on his amazing passing game and have good body management and he's good. He is like Karl Malone or Kareem, imo better. It really is a sight to see.

I do think we'll get more players like this because our medicine, nutrition and trainers are more defined.

[Roundball_Rock]

You also gott'a consider LeBron outlasted his peers too. Wade was the closest to his lvl in his prime, but his body broke down. Carmelo was there, but his style and his body couldn't keep up. Bosh unfortunately had to retire. Dwight Howard isn't as dominant anymore because the league has changed and his injuries. CP3 is still here, but he isn't as good as he once was. And you can see he is slowing down a bit, but his skill is still amazing.

LeBron is the only dude who is playing at similar level for like 10 years.

Yeah, the nutrition etc. excuse doesn't hold water because no one else is doing anything close to what LeBron is and because "nutrition" wasn't the reason Jordan didn't have longevity. It was the mental piece with him.

The New York Times had a great article 8 or 10 years ago noting how Kobe was then compared to LeBron, Wade and how before that it was T Mac and before that AI and Carter. The point was the same as yours: he kept going when T Mac, AI, Carter all fell off. LeBron has done the same, just to a bigger and longer degree.

Wade, the second best 03' draft player, was drafted the same year as him and started to decline after the 2011 season. Compare that to what LeBron did in 2020.

[8Ball]

LeBron will be like Kobe, play until the wheels fall off. Nothing left in the tank. Every piece of his body will be wrung dry for basketball. This is why LeBron fans will love Kobe.

Jordan has regrets until this day because physically he had more to give, but mentally he was fatigued. Too bad you don't get points for longevity if you need Load Management for your mental psyche.