There were more Finals-caliber teams in the 90's vs 10's (preseason odds)

[3ball]

.
* Each year from 2011-2018, only 2 to 4 teams had preseason odds less than +1000 (Big 3's were required to be Finals-caliber = less Finals-caliber teams)

* Each year from 1990-1998, 5 to 8 teams had preseason odds less than +1000 (only 1 or 2 stars required = more Finals-caliber teams)


Obviously, it's easier to be 1 of 2 Finals-caliber teams with 3 perennial all-stars (heat/spurs and cavs/warriors), than 1 of many Finals-caliber teams with 1 or 2 stars (parity, aka evenly-spread talent, not top-heavy)

And Lebron was the preseason favorite in 15' and 16'... so his Big 3 was considered > Curry's, and it should never have been called an upset

it's a massive hustle that the media calls lebron an underdog when he was initially favored and simply fell to underdog by underachieving the regular season (failing to have an expected juggernaut with his big 3).. people forget that the warriors came out of nowhere in 2015 and Klay was a 1st time all-star (not that good yet).. and of course love got hurt in 15', but they shouldn't have been an underdog in 16'.

[1987_Lakers]

'89 Cavs and now pre-season odds, you know you are in trouble when you use those weak arguments to defend MJ.

Lets look at the Finals odds in 2015 right before they started, or after Kyrie got hurt in game 1. Or look at the odds right before the 2016 Finals, when GS was coming off a 73 win season. :roll:

[1987_Lakers]

https://www.masslive.com/sports/2015/06/2015_nba_finals_betting_odds_g.html

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/15849701/2016-nba-finals-complete-odds-golden-state-warriors-cleveland-cavaliers-series

[Roundball_Rock]

OP is getting more pathetic by the day. LeBron has destroyed him.

[3ball]

https://www.masslive.com/sports/2015/06/2015_nba_finals_betting_odds_g.html

https://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/15849701/2016-nba-finals-complete-odds-golden-state-warriors-cleveland-cavaliers-series

The 15' Cavs were favored before the Love injury - they were the preseason and pre-playoffs favorite and therefore considered the better assemblage of talent.. 14' Kyrie was all-star MVP while 15' Klay was 1st time all-star

The 15' Warriors weren't even in the top 10 in preseason odds and came out of nowhere in the regular season

Obviously, it's easier to be 1 of 2 Finals-caliber teams with 3 perennial all-stars (heat/spurs and cavs/warriors), than 1 of many Finals-caliber teams with 1 or 2 stars (90's)

And Lebron was the preseason favorite in 15' and 16'... so his Big 3 was considered > Curry's, and it should never have been called an upset

it's a massive hustle that the media calls lebron an underdog when he was initially favored and simply fell to underdog by underachieving the regular season (failing to have an expected juggernaut with his big 3).. people forget that the warriors came out of nowhere in 2015 and Klay was a 1st time all-star (not that good yet).. and of course love got hurt in 15', but they shouldn't have been an underdog in 16'.

[BigtimeNBAFan]

Damn dude, Lebron has really ruined your life. I'm sorry. I hope if my life is ever ruined by someone it will be real damage. It is pretty pathetic to have your life ruined by a professional basketball player who never did anything to you other than threaten the legacy of your childhood hero.

[1987_Lakers]

The 15' Cavs were favored before the Love injury - they were the preseason and pre-playoffs favorite and therefore considered the better assemblage of talent.. 14' Kyrie was all-star MVP while 15' Klay was 1st time all-star

The 15' Warriors weren't even in the top 10 in preseason odds and came out of nowhere in the regular season

Going by SRS, a stat you used to defend the '89 Cavs.... The 2015 Warriors had the #1 SRS, #1 defense. :oldlol:

Warriors were Vegas favorites before the Finals started in 2015, this is fact, they became even bigger favorites after Kyrie got injured, acting like Cleveland were favorites in both years are flat out lies, and it shows you have no integrity.

[8Ball]

What were the finals odds numbers when LeBron was down 3-1 against Golden State in 2016.

Would love to know the odds before game 5.

[8Ball]

Going by SRS, a stat you used to defend the '89 Cavs.... The 2015 Warriors had the #1 SRS, #1 defense. :oldlol:

Warriors were Vegas favorites before the Finals started in 2015, this is fact, they became even bigger favorites after Kyrie got injured, acting like Cleveland were favorites in both years are flat out lies, and it shows you have no integrity.

3ball has been lying for 10 years now on this forum. No surprise.

[MadDog]

Do you have a link to your OP? Could be wrong, but I remember reading The 93 Suns and 98 Jazz were favored over Chicago. Which would obviously make Jordan winning more impressive.

[Trollsmasher]

people were less knowledgeable about the game in the '90s (as evidenced by all the terrible play, poor strategy, inefficient shots, etc.) and thus were not making optimal bets, so the betting market doesn't reflect the reality

[And1AllDay]

'89 Cavs and now pre-season odds, you know you are in trouble when you use those weak arguments to defend MJ.

Lets look at the Finals odds in 2015 right before they started, or after Kyrie got hurt in game 1. Or look at the odds right before the 2016 Finals, when GS was coming off a 73 win season. :roll:

issa big wrap :oldlol:

when you see 89 Cavs and pre season odds you know issa lock

:oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

Going by SRS, a stat you used to defend the '89 Cavs.... The 2015 Warriors had the #1 SRS, #1 defense. :oldlol:

Warriors were Vegas favorites before the Finals started in 2015, this is fact, they became even bigger favorites after Kyrie got injured, acting like Cleveland were favorites in both years are flat out lies, and it shows you have no integrity.

thats why he is a sock puppet acct at this point and just fun to bully

no one can take his stuff serious anymore

3baLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL time for another alt! oh wait you just made 3 more

[3ball]

Going by SRS, a stat you used to defend the '89 Cavs.... The 2015 Warriors had the #1 SRS, #1 defense. :oldlol:

Warriors were Vegas favorites before the Finals started in 2015, this is fact, they became even bigger favorites after Kyrie got injured, acting like Cleveland were favorites in both years are flat out lies, and it shows you have no integrity.

Again, the Cavs were favored before the Love injury

They were favored again in the 16' preseason but wet the bed in the regular season and fell to underdog..

and that's the big media hustle - lebron's teams routinely fall from preseason favorites to postseason dogs because bron-ball underachieves the regular season and the team looks crappy.. meanwhile, better brands like the Spurs and warriors flirt with 70 wins instead of bron-ball..

ultimately, bron-ball is a perennial underdog and loser by the end of the season.. the lost or were underdogs in 3 of 4 Finals with Wade/Bosh, and another 3 of 4 with Kyrie/Love

[Roundball_Rock]

Do you have a link to your OP? Could be wrong, but I remember reading The 93 Suns and 98 Jazz were favored over Chicago. Which would obviously make Jordan winning more impressive.

98' Jazz were favored in the media going into the finals (different than preseason odds). The Jazz swept the Lakers with prime Shaq in the WCF and had prime Malone--the Bulls needed 7 to beat a Pacers team with no superstar.

[Shooter]

issa big wrap :oldlol:

when you see 89 Cavs and pre season odds you know issa lock

:oldlol:

https://i.postimg.cc/Sj0w5Y55/last-resort-fail.png

[1987_Lakers]

Again, the Cavs were favored before the Love injury

Who cares? Did Love play in the Finals? That's like saying Cavs would have been favorites in 2017 if you gave them peak Hakeem, it's irrelevant.

[Shooter]

Who cares? Did Love play in the Finals? That's like saying Cavs would have been favorites in 2017 if you gave them peak Hakeem, it's irrelevant.

BUT THEY WERE FAVORITES UNDER CONDITIONS THEY DIDNT PLAY UNDER DOE

JUST LIKE CAVS WOULD BE FAVORITES IF THEY PLAYED 7 on 7, UNDERWATER, WITH 2 BALLS

They didn't play under those conditions, but if they did they would be favorites bro!

Idiot 3ball :lol Did he even graduate high school?

[3ball]

Who cares? Did Love play in the Finals? That's like saying Cavs would have been favorites in 2017 if you gave them peak Hakeem, it's irrelevant.

The 15' Cavs were initially favored, so lebron's big 3 was considered a better assemblage of talent and therefore shouldn't be considered underdogs in 16'

And they weren't - the Cavs were favorites in 2016 preseason, but once again sucked the regular season and fell to underdog

And that's the hustle - lebron's big 3's fall to underdog status because bron-ball is a 50-win offense while curry-ball, jordan-ball and kawhi-ball flirt with 70 wins

[1987_Lakers]

bron-ball is a 50-win offense while curry-ball, jordan-ball and kawhi-ball flirt with 70 wins

Until the postseason starts and LeBron destroys those 70 win teams. MJ could only dream of doing that.

[Ainosterhaspie]

If there's a bunch of teams in contention, that just tells me there aren't any truly elite teams, just a bunch of mediocre ones (by standards of finals teams), and that's borne out for example by no team in the West getting to the finals more than 2 times in the whole 90s.

[Shooter]

https://i.postimg.cc/PxDWrLNT/6plastics.png

[3ball]

14' Kyrie was all-star MVP

15' Klay was a 1st time all-star

That's why Lebron/Kyrie/Love were considered better than Curry/Klay/Dray and therefore favored in both 15' and 16' preseasons.

So lebron only faced talent deficits vs KD's warriors in 17-18', which is offset the the Heatles similarly shutting down the league from 11-12'

And regarding the Finals runs in 07' or 18' - 1-star teams routinely won the East, aka Iverson, Kidd, Dwight, Jimmy Butler - only lebron's super-teams from 11-17' interrupted the trend of 1-star teams winning the East.. lebron actually left a couple 1-star runs on the table in 09/10 as the heavy favorite, which is why he started stacking the deck after that..

he formed a super-team in a 1-star conference - is there anything more manufactured than that?.. his entire resume is distorted by this and he'd be Dr. J without the "decision".. that's why I rank him #11 (just ahead of Magic, who's ball-dominance similarly hurt Finals record despite a loaded team.. indeed, magic and kareem can't BOTH be top 5 with an asterisked 5-4 Finals record, so magic gets bumped down due to the same Finals-record-killing ball-dominance that bron has

[3ball]

If there's a bunch of teams in contention, that just tells me there aren't any truly elite teams, just a bunch of mediocre ones (by standards of finals teams), and that's borne out for example by no team in the West getting to the finals more than 2 times in the whole 90s.
Here's a full history:

1-star teams routinely win the East - Lebron made the Finals just like Iverson, Kidd, Dwight, and Jimmy Butler.. only lebron's super-teams from 11-17' interrupted the trend of 1-star teams winning the East..

And lebron's run in 07' sucked - he only needed 25 on 43% in the East Playoffs to make the Finals... Iverson needed 32 on 38%, so that's very comparable.. Dwight and Kidd's stats were similar too

Otoh, a super-team was required to win the 80's East, so MJ/Woolridge had no chance in 85/86, and MJ/Oakley had no chance in 87/88.. only in 89' did the talent start to even up to where the Pistons were getting through, which allowed Jordan's 1-star bulls to nearly beat them in 89' and 90'..

by the 90's, expansion had spread the talent around fully, so 2-star teams were the best teams - that meant MJ was going to win every year.. the goat + anyone wins in a 2-star vs 2-star format.. pippen was simply the lucky, low-producing bum that came along at the right time (2-star format) and therefore won the "3-peat with MJ" lottery.. but surely if the Piston-killer and 88' FMVP James Worthy had replaced pippen in 88', the bulls would've beaten the Pistons and 3-peated from 88-90' (Piston-killer Worthy > pippen's 12 on 42% against 88-90' Pistons)..