Top 25 Centers of All-Time Voting Part 4: Players 16-20

[L.Kizzle]

Select and rank the next 5 (players 16 through 20) of the greatest CENTERS of All-Time. A 48 Hour window will be given to make your choices or debate why said player should or shouldn’t be here. After 48 Hours, 5 will be selected and another 5 will be added to the pool of players.

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After one more group of voters, we will head to the power forward position.
Let's try to get some other dialogue going in the form, instead of the elephants in the room.
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Players to choose from:
Al Horford
Alonzo Mourning
Artis Gilmore
Ben Wallace
Bill Laimbeer
Bob Lanier
Brad Daugherty
Dikembe Mutombo
Jack Sikma
Marc Gasol
Nate Thurmond
Neil Johnston
Walt Bellamy
Wes Unseld
Yao Ming


Top 25 Centers: 1-15
1 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2 Bill Russell
3 Shaquille O'Neal
4 Wilt Chamberlain
5 Hakeem Olajuwon
6 Moses Malone
7 David Robinson
8 Patrick Ewing
9 Willis Reed
9 George Mikan
11 Bill Walton
12 Dwight Howard
13 Dave Cowens
14 Bob McAdoo
15 Robert Parish


Voting Results
Number of Voters - 6
Number of Players Receiving Votes - 10


Bill Walton - (2) 1st Place Votes / (2) 2nd Place Vote / (1) 4th Place Votes
Dwight Howard - (3) 2nd Place Votes / (1) 3rd Place Vote / (1) 4th Place Vote
Dave Cowens - (2) 1st Place Votes / (1) 4th Place Vote
Bob McAdoo - (4) 3rd Place Votes / (2) 5th Place Votes
Robert Parish - (1) 3rd Place Vote / (1) 4th Place Vote / (3) 5th Place Votes
Artist Gilmore - (1) 1st Place Vote
Yao Ming - (1) 1st Place Vote
Alonzo Mourning - (1) 2nd Place Vote / (1) 4th Place Vote
Dikembe Mutombo - (1) 3rd Place Vote
Nate Thurmond - (1) 5th Place Vote


Voting Criteria
1st = 10 Pts
2nd = 7 Pts
3rd = 5 Pts
4th = 3 Pts
5th = 1 Pt

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Top-25-Centers-of-All-Time-Voting-Part-3-Players-11-15 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?486400-Top-25-Centers-of-All-Time-Voting-Part-3-Players-11-15)

[Shooter]

15 is good playa. Next position now, don't ruin this you're losing steam dammit!

I like the effort, very well organized, but 15 could even be construed as too much, per position.

[L.Kizzle]

15 is good playa. Next position now, don't ruin this you're losing steam dammit!

I like the effort, very well organized, but 15 could even be construed as too much, per position.
I thought about all of that. But ten gets done all the time. Top ten list here and top ten list there.
We're gonna talk about the same players we always talk about if it's a top ten list.
And with a Top Ten list, I could've just done that one thread each and been done with it.

I wanted it to linger own a bit because it is the off-season. Give people something to talk about instead of the MJ, Bron and Kobe topics infesting the forum.

Another thing about the center position. OF all the positions, it's the least hyped position of the past 20 years. So the players the choose from all mostly peaked 20-30 plus years ago besides Dwight Howard.

The other positions are current and will include active players which may liven up the voting. LeBron is current, Giannis is current. Westbrook and Harden and Curry are current. You get my drift. What centers are current?
We'll see how it plays out.

[Shooter]

I thought about all of that. But ten gets done all the time. Top ten list here and top ten list there.
We're gonna talk about the same players we always talk about if it's a top ten list.
And with a Top Ten list, I could've just done that one thread each and been done with it.

I wanted it to linger own a bit because it is the off-season. Give people something to talk about instead of the MJ, Bron and Kobe topics infesting the forum.

Another thing about the center position. OF all the positions, it's the least hyped position of the past 20 years. So the players the choose from all mostly peaked 20-30 plus years ago besides Dwight Howard.

The other positions are current and will include active players which may liven up the voting. LeBron is current, Giannis is current. Westbrook and Harden and Curry are current. You get my drift. What centers are current?
We'll see how it plays out.

Alright G, good luck :cheers: I think 15 is plenty but I understand your approach too

[Reggie43]

Rik Smits is arguably better than a few of those guys while being a legit post presence on offense especially in the playoffs.

[L.Kizzle]

Rik Smits is arguably better than a few of those guys while being a legit post presence on offense especially in the playoffs.

He's on my next set of players? Who do you have him better than?

[Reggie43]

He's on my next set of players? Who do you have him better than?

Its all arguable but I have him over a Horford or Gasol due to being a legit go to guy on offense that demanded double teams. He has a better playoff resume also going toe to toe with the likes of Shaq and Ewing, helping his team to series wins over both players due to his strong play.

[L.Kizzle]

Its all arguable but I have him over a Horford or Gasol due to being a legit go to guy on offense that demanded double teams. He has a better playoff resume also going toe to toe with the likes of Shaq and Ewing, helping his team to series wins over both players due to his strong play.
I can see possibly Horford but not Gasol. SMits was probably at the bottom of the top 10 centers of the 90s.

Hakeem
Ewing
Robinson
Shaq
Zo
Deke
Brad D

Those were the definite Top centers of the 90s.
Smiks, Divacs, Siekaly, Sabonis, Duckworth could be argued for the last 3 spots.

[iamgine]

Al Horford? Why not Nikola Jokic? Clearly everyone can agree Jokic's a much better player, with already better accolades.

[L.Kizzle]

Al Horford? Why not Nikola Jokic? Clearly everyone can agree Jokic's a much better player, with already better accolades.

He's on my next group of players. Only because he just finished up his 5th season. 5 season was my cutoff on players to add.
Horford is a 5 Time All-Star and All-NBA and All-Defensive Teamer as well.

[Reggie43]

I can see possibly Horford but not Gasol. SMits was probably at the bottom of the top 10 centers of the 90s.

Hakeem
Ewing
Robinson
Shaq
Zo
Deke
Brad D

Those were the definite Top centers of the 90s.
Smiks, Divacs, Siekaly, Sabonis, Duckworth could be argued for the last 3 spots.

Problem is that somebody like Gasol or Horford would be in the same boat as Smits if they played in the 90s. Zero all nba teams/all defense teams and barely allstars. For the record i get why you picked those guys I just want to put Smits name out there.

[iamgine]

He's on my next group of players. Only because he just finished up his 5th season. 5 season was my cutoff on players to add.
Horford is a 5 Time All-Star and All-NBA and All-Defensive Teamer as well.

Like a 1 time 3rd team all-NBA. No MVP vote ever.

Any way you slice it, Jokic should make it before Horford. Heck, even Rudy Gobert should make it over Horford. Come on now.

[L.Kizzle]

Like a 1 time 3rd team all-NBA. No MVP vote ever.

Any way you slice it, Jokic should make it before Horford. Heck, even Rudy Gobert should make it over Horford. Come on now.
I'm pretty sure Jokic will have a better career than Al when it's all said and done. Gobert is in the same boat as someone like DeAndre Jordan. Hell, I think he was All-NBA 1st team a few years ago.
I'm not sure who had a better career between Hortford and his college teammate Noah.

Who are your next 5?

[L.Kizzle]

Problem is that somebody like Gasol or Horford would be in the same boat as Smits if they played in the 90s. Zero all nba teams/all defense teams and barely allstars. For the record i get why you picked those guys I just want to put Smits name out there.

That is correct.
Brad D made one All-NBA team in the 90s, 1992. That was a year the Rockets missed the playoffs.

Mutombo made All-NBA 3rd Team in 1998.

Zo made All-NBA 1st Team in 1999. Ewing, Rob and Hakeem had gotten old, but he did beat out Shaq.

Who are your next 5?

[Reggie43]

That is correct.
Brad D made one All-NBA team in the 90s, 1992. That was a year the Rockets missed the playoffs.

Mutombo made All-NBA 3rd Team in 1998.

Zo made All-NBA 1st Team in 1999. Ewing, Rob and Hakeem had gotten old, but he did beat out Shaq.

Who are your next 5?

Not really a fan of ranking old school players I never saw play or atleast have an idea on what their game was even though i like these type of threads and commend the effort you guys put into it.

[Phoenix]

I was gonna vote but I decided against it. I'm tempted to put Wallace, Mourning and Mutumbo in but I honestly do not have even the casual knowledge of guys like Lanier, Thurmond, Gilmore and Unseld. Those 7 names I'm looking at, but I really can't pick the bones out of the lot.

[L.Kizzle]

I was gonna vote but I decided against it. I'm tempted to put Wallace, Mourning and Mutumbo in but I honestly do not have even the casual knowledge of guys like Lanier, Thurmond, Gilmore and Unseld. Those 7 names I'm looking at, but I really can't pick the bones out of the lot.
It's just for fun and to create dialogue here that's not Bron vs MJ.
Don't worry, your answers wont be submitted to the IRS or anything like that.

[L.Kizzle]

Not really a fan of ranking old school players I never saw play or atleast have an idea on what their game was even though i like these type of threads and commend the effort you guys put into it.
Give it a shot, it won't hurt. It's all in fun and to learn.

[Phoenix]

It's just for fun and to create dialogue here that's not Bron vs MJ.
Don't worry, your answers wont be submitted to the IRS or anything like that.

I know but I guess I just like to do these things properly, ya know? Like if I was taking this as a joke I'd just bullshit my way through it but I would like to be able to rationalise why I would eg rank Wallace over Thurmond or something like that if someone asked.

[iamgine]

I'm pretty sure Jokic will have a better career than Al when it's all said and done. Gobert is in the same boat as someone like DeAndre Jordan. Hell, I think he was All-NBA 1st team a few years ago.
I'm not sure who had a better career between Hortford and his college teammate Noah.

Who are your next 5?

My point is, as of this moment, Jokic is already greater than Horford. So does Gobert, a 2x DPOY. It's like so random to include Horford at this point.

[Reggie43]

Wes Unseld
Bob Lanier
Alonzo Mourning
Artis Gilmore
Nate Thurmond

[dankok8]

16. Nate Thurmond
17. Wes Unseld
18. Artis Gilmore
19. Bob Lanier
20. Dikembe Mutombo

[Charlie Sheen]

I don't think you should restrict each voting round to a pool of players for the next position. Having a hard time believing Willis Reed lands in the top 10 if he was not included in your original pool of players for top 5.

16. Mourning - bonafide superstar from the day he stepped on an nba court.
17. Mutombo - not quite a superstar, but doesn't have any question marks. example: Gilmore's ABA career, Big Ben's scoring
18. Gilmore - Never saw him. Enough people my dad's age talk about him being an unstoppable scorer in any era and any league that I'll put him here.
19. Ben Wallace - Could switch from centers on to perimeter players and wouldn't be a mismatch. Excellence on the defensive end that has no peer in my lifetime.
20. Laimbeer - Rare blend of physicality and shooting.

[L.Kizzle]

My point is, as of this moment, Jokic is already greater than Horford. So does Gobert, a 2x DPOY. It's like so random to include Horford at this point.
Why you doggin Al? It's not like I listed Jamaal Magloire or something.
Al Horford is probably the most consistent big man of the past 15 years. He's good for 15 and 9 boards and a block every season basically.

And not sure Jokic is already greater than 15 year veteran Horford. I mean, if the Joker was getting something like 32/15 I'd say so. If he retired after the Bubble season, the Joker isn't better. He will be if he keeps it up.

[L.Kizzle]

I don't think you should restrict each voting round to a pool of players for the next position. Having a hard time believing Willis Reed lands in the top 10 if he was not included in your original pool of players for top 5.

16. Mourning - bonafide superstar from the day he stepped on an nba court.
17. Mutombo - not quite a superstar, but doesn't have any question marks. example: Gilmore's ABA career, Big Ben's scoring
18. Gilmore - Never saw him. Enough people my dad's age talk about him being an unstoppable scorer in any era and any league that I'll put him here.
19. Ben Wallace - Could switch from centers on to perimeter players and wouldn't be a mismatch. Excellence on the defensive end that has no peer in my lifetime.
20. Laimbeer - Rare blend of physicality and shooting.
I did the player pool so I'm not getting all sorts of random players like Andrew Bynum and Roy Hibbert in the top 5 Centers of All-Time list.

For example Wes Unseld (MVP/NBA Champ/All-Star) is the only player left from the original pool of players.

And yes, Willis Reed was included in the original 15 center player pool.

[iamgine]

Why you doggin Al? It's not like I listed Jamaal Magloire or something.
Al Horford is probably the most consistent big man of the past 15 years. He's good for 15 and 9 boards and a block every season basically.

And not sure Jokic is already greater than 15 year veteran Horford. I mean, if the Joker was getting something like 32/15 I'd say so. If he retired after the Bubble season, the Joker isn't better. He will be if he keeps it up.
You might as well list Jamaal Magloire. I don't think I'm doggin Al, just that he seems so random and has no place this early. That consistency reasoning is quite weak.

I don't think many if any gonna agree Jokic's not already greater. Gobert too. Horford's such a low bar.

[And1AllDay]

L kizz love you fam but top 20 is too high

[Honor Boost]

Unseld
Mourning
Thurmond
Gilmore
Mutumbo

[L.Kizzle]

You might as well list Jamaal Magloire. I don't think I'm doggin Al, just that he seems so random and has no place this early. That consistency reasoning is quite weak.

I don't think many if any gonna agree Jokic's not already greater. Gobert too. Horford's such a low bar.
But how is the most consistent Center of the past 15 years random tho? Roy Hibbert at this time would be random, not Horford.

Joakim Noah - hasn't been a factor in the league since 2014
Roy Hibbert - Been retired since 2017
DeAndre Jordan - Non-Factor without CP3
Marc Gasol - Still producing ... not at the same rate as Al Horford tho

Gobert, Drummond and Jokic came in about a good 5 years or so later as the crop I just mentioned.

DeMarcus Cousins is a totally different animal.

[iamgine]

But how is the most consistent Center of the past 15 years random tho? Roy Hibbert at this time would be random, not Horford.

Joakim Noah - hasn't been a factor in the league since 2014
Roy Hibbert - Been retired since 2017
DeAndre Jordan - Non-Factor without CP3
Marc Gasol - Still producing ... not at the same rate as Al Horford tho

Gobert, Drummond and Jokic came in about a good 5 years or so later as the crop I just mentioned.

DeMarcus Cousins is a totally different animal.
Because he's not great? And we're talking about greatness?

I don't think many if any gonna agree Jokic's not already greater. Gobert too. Horford's such a low bar.

[Lebron_James]

16 Wes Unseld
17 Nate Thurmond
18 Dikembe Mutombo
19 Walt Bellamy
20 Artis Gilmore

[L.Kizzle]

Because he's not great? And we're talking about greatness?

I don't think many if any gonna agree Jokic's not already greater. Gobert too. Horford's such a low bar.
Even if I replaced Al with Jokic, is Jokic great today?
I don't think Al Horford is great. I don't think Jokic is either ... yet. He'll get there if he continues the trajectory.
I could have added a group of five Hall of Famers instead of Al (players who'd probably wouldn't receive a vote just like Al, tho they're much more qualified.) I just wanted to add someone current who has a resume.
I could've added Jokic this go around and save Al for the next group of five.
But also, why just bring up Al and not Brad Daugherty. Both Al and Brad are/were 5 time All-Star with one All- NBA 3rd team appearance.

[iamgine]

Even if I replaced Al with Jokic, is Jokic great today?
I don't think Al Horford is great. I don't think Jokic is either ... yet. He'll get there if he continues the trajectory.
I could have added a group of five Hall of Famers instead of Al (players who'd probably wouldn't receive a vote just like Al, tho they're much more qualified.) I just wanted to add someone current who has a resume.
I could've added Jokic this go around and save Al for the next group of five.
But also, why just bring up Al and not Brad Daugherty. Both Al and Brad are/were 5 time All-Star with one All- NBA 3rd team appearance.
Jokic's not ATG yet, but he's definitely greater than Horford. So the addition is not in order of who's greater, that's why it seems random.

Not too familiar with Brad. Is he random too? Seems he played during Keem/Drob/Ewing era.

[Charlie Sheen]

I did the player pool so I'm not getting all sorts of random players like Andrew Bynum and Roy Hibbert in the top 5 Centers of All-Time list.

For example Wes Unseld (MVP/NBA Champ/All-Star) is the only player left from the original pool of players.

And yes, Willis Reed was included in the original 15 center player pool.

How about this example... a poster has Andrew Bynum in their top 10 and the reason is they're 15 years old? How is that random ass? It is representative of the poster's age. I understand why you did it... trolls exist, but it takes a lot of the flavor out of these things when people are being directed to a "correct" answer.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Why is Ewing over Reed and Mikan? He wins no title.

[Phoenix]

Why is Ewing over Reed and Mikan? He wins no title.

There's a lot of guys who won titles that have been ranked below him. Hence the fallacy with equating 'greatness' with ring counting. Its simplifying 'how good is this person at basketball' because it's much easier to say this person won 2/3/5/6 rings ergo that player is better than someone who won less.

[L.Kizzle]

How about this example... a poster has Andrew Bynum in their top 10 and the reason is they're 15 years old? How is that random ass? It is representative of the poster's age. I understand why you did it... trolls exist, but it takes a lot of the flavor out of these things when people are being directed to a "correct" answer.
You can't vote for everyone for the All-Star game. They have it narrowed down to the most deserving guys at each position.
Do you like your exams to be multiple choice or for you to write in the answer?
I'm just providing the players, it's up to you to choose which order they go in.