Was Tim Duncan a beta and natural sidekick?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

1999 - All the alphas on bulls (Jordan/Pip/Phil) left and it was a lockout year. Duncan beats Allan Houston in finals instead lol

2003 - Webber's kings were the favorite coming into the year but he got hurt, Dirk led the #1 SRS but he got hurt. Duncan finally beats Shaq/Kobe/Phil but had a career record of 7-14 against them. So the win over Lakers was a fluke pretty much. Duncan faces a scoring beta Jason Kidd in finals.

2004 - Duncan loses to Shaq/Kobe/Phil like always. Old man Karl Malone locks down young prime beta Duncan.

2005 - Duncan gets locked down by Rasheed Wallace and needs Manu to save him the entire finals. Randomly wins finals MVP anyway due to his #1 draft pick hype.

2006 - Duncan's defense gets humiliated against Dirks mavs. Loses game 7 at home which is what a beta star would do. Dirk owned duncan the entire series and eliminates him despite Jason Terry's 1 game suspension.

2007- Duncan faces an all time weak cavs opponent finals opponent and still scores with awful efficiency. Tony Parker wins finals MVP instead.

2008 - Duncan gets destroyed by Kobe in WCF and loses 1-4 despite Pau Gasol averaging just 13PPG for the series. Kobe went at Duncan like Duncan was a soft beta star.

2009 until 2011 - Duncan manages to win about 5 playoff games total

2013 - Duncan misses layup late in game 7 finals and fails to win series and step up as an alpha finals MVP

2014 - Duncan gets out of alpha Kawhi's way in fInals. During 3 game winning streak over heat, beta Duncan averages 12PPG to alpha Kawhi's 24PPG

[starface]

In short:

No.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Duncan got cheated on by his hot wife, that's also something a beta would experience.

[Manny98]

https://i.postimg.cc/vTPmFRt1/kawhiclippers.jpg

[starface]

Duncan got cheated on by his hot wife, that's also something a beta would experience.

Uhhhhh, no. Actually he cheated on her, with a tall hot asian guy.

Like an ALPHA.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Uhhhhh, no. Actually he cheated on her, with a tall hot asian guy.

Like an ALPHA.

Whatever situation it was, Duncan was the beta.

[starface]

Whatever situation it was, Duncan was the beta.

No he WASN'T.

STOP.

[tpols]

If Kobe or Lebron ever lost to an 8 seed as a 1 seed, we'd never hear the end of it. That was big time beta. But I would say he was pretty alpha in his younger years. Anybody that can step to Shaq can't be a beta.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

No he WASN'T.

STOP.

A disguised beta is exactly what he was. It was disguised because he had alphas all around him.Think about it

- Manu is winning Olympic gold medal in a non American country. That's an alpha

- Tony Parker is winning finals MVP against LeBron (something Duncan failed to do in 3 finals attempts). Parker is also banging actress Eva longoria and cheating on her! That's an alpha pimp.

- Duncan is getting his money stolen from by his ex wife, 20 million from his financial advisor as well. Everyone walks over him like he's a beta

- Kawhi comes along to save his 2008-2011 shitfest. After that raptors ring, we find out Kawhi was the better player all along and advanced stats also prove it during 2013/14.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

If Kobe or Lebron ever lost to an 8 seed as a 1 seed, we'd never hear the end of it. That was big time beta. But I would say he was pretty alpha in his younger years. Anybody that can step to Shaq can't be a beta.

Kobe claimed in his book that he told Shaq to be ready for Duncan and Shaq's response was "He's soft". I always thought Duncan was scared of Shaq, he needed Robinson to do his dirty work or double teams.

[tpols]

Kobe claimed in his book that he told Shaq to be ready for Duncan and Shaq's response was "He's soft". I always thought Duncan was scared of Shaq, he needed Robinson to do his dirty work or double teams.


Very true on Robinson, but I also remember Shaq saying that Duncan doesn't respond to trash talk. He said "Tim will look at you like he's bored". :lol

That's pretty alpha.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Very true on Robinson, but I also remember Shaq saying that Duncan doesn't respond to trash talk. He said "Tim will look at you like he's bored". :lol

That's pretty alpha.

Shaq/kobe/Phil were 14-7 against Duncan

And then Duncan was 0/3 on finals MVPS vs LeBron

Doesn't seem to handle himself vs alphas. He was only alpha against superstars like Allan Houston and J Kidd.

[starface]

A disguised beta is exactly what he was. It was disguised because he had alphas all around him.Think about it

- Manu is winning Olympic gold medal in a non American country. That's an alpha

- Tony Parker is winning finals MVP against LeBron (something Duncan failed to do in 3 finals attempts). Parker is also banging actress Eva longoria and cheating on her! That's an alpha pimp.

- Duncan is getting his money stolen from by his ex wife, 20 million from his financial advisor as well. Everyone walks over him like he's a beta

- Kawhi comes along to save his 2008-2011 shitfest. After that raptors ring, we find out Kawhi was the better player all along and advanced stats also prove it during 2013/14.


Yes, he was beta compared to someone like LEBRON. But who isnt??

Compared to a MJ, Wilt, Kawhi types?? He was as alpha as the invasion of Normandy.

DEAL WITH IT.

[tpols]

Shaq/kobe/Phil were 14-7 against Duncan

And then Duncan was 0/3 on finals MVPS vs LeBron

Doesn't seem to handle himself vs alphas. He was only alpha against superstars like Allan Houston and J Kidd.

I mean... an old Duncan owned Lebron. He was a single shot away from a 3-0 ring sweep, and his rim presence left LBJ totally shook to the point even a fat Boris Diaw was clowning him. :lol

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Yes, he was beta compared to someone like LEBRON. But who isnt??

Compared to a MJ, Wilt, Kawhi types?? He was as alpha as the invasion of Normandy.

DEAL WITH IT.


I mean... an old Duncan owned Lebron. He was a single shot away from a 3-0 ring sweep, and his rim presence left LBJ totally shook to the point even a fat Boris Diaw was clowning him. :lol

3 chances to win finals mvp every series and lost every time, that tells me he had teammates stepping up to carry him. From what I've seen, LeBron loved when Duncan switched on him with screens. LeBron despised when Kawhi was guarding him.

Duncan is a nerdy guy personality who plays computer video games. I don't know why you guys think he's an alpha.

He also has an extremely outdated offensive game and wants to post up.

2013 finals there's a reason Pop took Duncan out the final play of game 6, he wasn't there best defender or anything like that. His 2005 1999 2007 rings were all putting up Pippen type numbers.

[tpols]

3 chances to win finals mvp every series and lost every time, that tells me he had teammates stepping up to carry him. From what I've seen, LeBron loved when Duncan switched on him with screens. LeBron despised when Kawhi was guarding him.

Duncan is a nerdy guy personality who plays computer video games. I don't know why you guys think he's an alpha.

He also has an extremely outdated offensive game and wants to post up.

2013 finals there's a reason Pop took Duncan out the final play of game 6, he wasn't there best defender or anything like that. His 2005 1999 2007 rings were all putting up Pippen type numbers.

Tony Parker won FMVP and Duncan's playoff VORP was triple his in 2007. That's not a typo.

FMVP literally means nothing... most accolades don't because they don't rely on reality but rather story telling.

[scuzzy]

Tony Parker won FMVP and Duncan's playoff VORP was triple his in 2007. That's not a typo.

FMVP literally means nothing... most accolades don't because they don't rely on reality but rather story telling.
Tony Parker was by far the best player in the 2007 Finals, he carved up the Cavs and got whatever he wanted

There was no Cinderella fairy tale to it

[Roundball_Rock]

HBK, in your Manu thread someone said you had Duncan top 5 all-time. Is that true? If so, how do you square that with what you are saying here?

[tpols]

Tony Parker was by far the best player in the 2007 Finals, he carved up the Cavs and got whatever he wanted

There was no Cinderella fairy tale to it

I look at whole playoff runs bro.

The Cavs were easier for San Antonio then say... the Suns... by a lot. So I'm not putting all my stock into one of their weaker opponents.

A playoff MVP would hold much more weight than FMVP, but would ultimately still have the same faults of being storyline / money driven.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Tony Parker won FMVP and Duncan's playoff VORP was triple his in 2007. That's not a typo.

FMVP literally means nothing... most accolades don't because they don't rely on reality but rather story telling.

Finals MVP means you were the best player in the finals, they have never got it wrong besides 2005 finals and Jerry West finals. Playing the best in the biggest series is what translates to being an alpha. Parker had to be the main scorer in finals 2007 and Duncan preferred to play like Pippen, same with 2005 but replace Parker with Manu, same with 2014 but replace parker/Manu with Kawhi. 1999 was just a beta year in general.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

HBK, in your Manu thread someone said you had Duncan top 5 all-time. Is that true? If so, how do you square that with what you are saying here?

I would still have him around top 5-12 all time but that's only because his championships. At the end of the day, he's still a beta player. He's not a #1 option scorer like Jordan LeBron Kawhi Shaq.

Duncan/KG/Robinson/Pippen are those all time great beta players. People like to confuse them with alphas though and that's where I disagree.

Basically my argument is he's not top 3 goat level

[Roundball_Rock]

5-12 is quite a wide range, don't you think? 5th would be around guys like Wilt and Russell, 12th you are getting to Hakeem, Oscar, West types.

The "alpha" and "beta" stuff was covered in the Robinson thread. Gasol is called a "beta" while Robinson is called an "alpha" for doing similar things on title teams. :confusedshrug:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

5-12 is quite a wide range, don't you think? 5th would be around guys like Wilt and Russell, 12th you are getting to Hakeem, Oscar, West types.

The "alpha" and "beta" stuff was covered in the Robinson thread. Gasol is called a "beta" while Robinson is called an "alpha" for doing similar things on title teams. :confusedshrug:

Well I've seen Kobe as high as 5 and as low as 12, that's how I feel about Duncan but Kobe is just way more alpha.

Robinson was like 5x better on defense then Pau Gasol though, so he's really like Pau/Odom all rolled up into 1 guy. I don't think Robinson was clearly Duncan's sidekick in 1999, like it was clear that Pau was the sidekick.

[BigtimeNBAFan]

Tony Parker won FMVP and Duncan's playoff VORP was triple his in 2007. That's not a typo.

FMVP literally means nothing... most accolades don't because they don't rely on reality but rather story telling.

Tony Parker absolutely deserved the finals mvp. It had nothing to do with "storyline." I know you are a retard, but actually watch the games. It can help even the most mentally handicapped person.

You even showed this with your last statement. Yes accolades can be misleading. For example Lebron was clearly the most valuable player this year yet didn't get MVP. See that was actually a semi-decent point. Even as a retard, you can make a decent point sometimes which means your 4,000 other idiotic points can't be excused just because of your mental handicap. Be better skippy.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

1999 Robinson was a former MVP and still in prime, he's an all-time great co star like Pippen or Manu (1st team all nba, former MVP, playoff VORP leader type guys).

A beta sidekick is Lowry, Pau Gasol, Lamarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love type guys.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Tony Parker absolutely deserved the finals mvp. It had nothing to do with "storyline." I know you are a retard, but actually watch the games. It can help even the most mentally handicapped person.

You even showed this with your last statement. Yes accolades can be misleading. For example Lebron was clearly the most valuable player this year yet didn't get MVP. See that was actually a semi-decent point. Even as a retard, you can make a decent point sometimes which means your 4,000 other idiotic points can't be excused just because of your mental handicap. Be better skippy.

2003 - Duncan
2005 - Manu
2007 - parker
2014 - kawhi

Spurs franchise was about a different guy being the star each year. 1999 was two stars winning in a 1 star team washed up league. So Duncan wasn't this alpha of winning like people think, he had more help then any all time great in history and that includes Curry.

[Kblaze8855]

The obsession internet trolls and nerds have with people of immense accomplishment being “betas” is hilarious to me. Combine it with basketball....a sport of 10 people playing at once and look at it from a franchise perspective evaluating decades of styles and personalities blending to win and the trolls are lost in the weeds trying to boil it down to the simplest terms to push agendas.

Basketball is a team sport requiring buy in from the top of the organization to near the end of the roster to win. When it comes to getting to that goal through flexibility, accountability, and on court execution Tim Duncan is as close to a perfect franchise player as anyone has ever been.

Frankly Tim Duncan haters are just idiots. He’s the test.

If you’re putting your time into tearing down Tim Duncan you shouldn’t be talking about basketball to begin with.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

The obsession internet trolls and nerds have with people of immense accomplishment being “betas” is hilarious to me. Combine it with basketball....a sport of 10 people playing at once and look at it from a franchise perspective evaluating decades of styles and personalities blending to win and the trolls are lost in the weeds trying to boil it down to the simplest terms to push agendas.

Basketball is a team sport requiring buy in from the top of the organization to near the end of the roster to win. When it comes to getting to that goal through flexibility, accountability, and on court execution Tim Duncan is as close to a perfect franchise player as anyone has ever been.

Frankly Tim Duncan haters are just idiots. He’s the test.

If you’re putting your time into tearing down Tim Duncan you shouldn’t be talking about basketball to begin with.

Fair enough, I'm not ripping on anybody for being Duncan fans. There's nothing wrong with me thinking he's overrated is there?

Undeserving of finals MVP 2005, undeserving of being called best spurs player 2014, outdated offensive game that doesn't translate to elite offense when ran through him.

The 1st round pick hype, godly supporting casts have him overrated. His style wouldn't work today either. Coaches would bench him if he posted up hahah Frank Vogel always benched Dwight whenever he tried posting up.

[TheCorporation]

https://i.postimg.cc/vTPmFRt1/kawhiclippers.jpg

:roll::roll:

[Bronbron23]

1999 - All the alphas on bulls (Jordan/Pip/Phil) left and it was a lockout year. Duncan beats Allan Houston in finals instead lol

2003 - Webber's kings were the favorite coming into the year but he got hurt, Dirk led the #1 SRS but he got hurt. Duncan finally beats Shaq/Kobe/Phil but had a career record of 7-14 against them. So the win over Lakers was a fluke pretty much. Duncan faces a scoring beta Jason Kidd in finals.

2004 - Duncan loses to Shaq/Kobe/Phil like always. Old man Karl Malone locks down young prime beta Duncan.

2005 - Duncan gets locked down by Rasheed Wallace and needs Manu to save him the entire finals. Randomly wins finals MVP anyway due to his #1 draft pick hype.

2006 - Duncan's defense gets humiliated against Dirks mavs. Loses game 7 at home which is what a beta star would do. Dirk owned duncan the entire series and eliminates him despite Jason Terry's 1 game suspension.

2007- Duncan faces an all time weak cavs opponent finals opponent and still scores with awful efficiency. Tony Parker wins finals MVP instead.

2008 - Duncan gets destroyed by Kobe in WCF and loses 1-4 despite Pau Gasol averaging just 13PPG for the series. Kobe went at Duncan like Duncan was a soft beta star.

2009 until 2011 - Duncan manages to win about 5 playoff games total

2013 - Duncan misses layup late in game 7 finals and fails to win series and step up as an alpha finals MVP

2014 - Duncan gets out of alpha Kawhi's way in fInals. During 3 game winning streak over heat, beta Duncan averages 12PPG to alpha Kawhi's 24PPG

No not even close. You can look at his demeanor and see in his eyes he's not a beta. Real recognize real. Anyone questioning it or saying he's not is most definitely a beta.

[And1AllDay]

https://i.postimg.cc/vTPmFRt1/kawhiclippers.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/bv8LSvSY/game_7_choke,_3-1_yikes.png

kawyikes leonard