Top 25 Power Forwards of All-Time Voting Part 5: Players 21-25

[L.Kizzle]

Select and rank the next five (players 21 through 25) of the greatest POWER FORWARDS of All-Time. A 48 Hour window will be given to make your choices or debate why said player should or shouldn’t be here. After 48 Hours, the final five will be selected and we'll be moving on to the SMALL FORWARD position.

Thanks all who participated. Trying to bring different dialogue to the forum besides the same topics over and over. Hope to see you all in the Small Forward Voting in a few days, but let's get the PF position out of here with a bang! [Mike Breen voice.]


Players to Choose From
Amar’e Stoudemire
Blake Griffin
Bob Love
Bobby Jones
Chris Bosh
Connie Hawkins
Gus Johnson
Jermaine O’Neal
Kevin Love
Larry Johnson
Maurice Lucas
Ralph Sampson
Rasheed Wallace
Tom Chambers
Tom Heinsohn

and

Three Wildcards
Draymond Green
Buck Williams
Rudy Tomjanovich

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Top 25 Power Forwards: 1-20
1 Tim Duncan
2 Kevin Garnett
3 Karl Malone
4 Dirk Nowitzki
5 Charles Barkley
6 Bob Pettit
7 Kevin McHale
8 Elvin Hayes
9 Giannis Antetokounmpo
10 Anthony Davis
11 Pau Gasol
12 Dennis Rodman
13 Dolph Schayes
13 Chris Webber
15 Jerry Lucas
16 Dave DeBusschere
17 Shawn Kemp
18 George McGinnis
19 Spencer Haywood
20 LaMarcus Aldridge


Voting Results
Number of Voters - 4
Number of Players Receiving Votes - 12


Dave DeBusschere (3) 1st Place Vote / (1) 5th Place Vote = 31 Points
Shawn Kemp (2) 2nd Place Vote / (1) 4th Place Vote = 17 Points
George McGinnis (1) 1st Place Vote / (1) 3rd Place Vote = 15 Points
Spencer Haywood (1) 2nd Place Vote / (1) 5th Place Vote = 8 Points
LaMarcus Aldridge (1) 2nd Place Vote = 7 Points
Tom Heinsohn (1) 3rd Place Vote = 5 Points
Amar’e Stoudemire (1) 3rd Place Vote = 5 Points
Jermaine O’Neal (1) 3rd Place Vote = 5 Points
Rasheed Wallace (1) 4th Place Vote / (1) 5th Place Vote = 4 Points
Connie Hawkins (1) 4th Place Vote = 3 Points
Chris Bosh (1) 4th Place Vote = 3 Points
Kevin Love (1) 5th Place Vote = 1 Point

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Voting Criteria
Five Seasons or more played in the NBA
1st = 10 Pts
2nd = 7 Pts
3rd = 5 Pts
4th = 3 Pts
5th = 1 Pt

Top-25-Power-Forwards-of-All-Time-Voting-Part-4-Players-16-20 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?486817-Top-25-Power-Forwards-of-All-Time-Voting-Part-4-Players-16-20)

[Shooter]

Heinsohn
Draymond
Rasheed
Bosh
Amare

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Heinsohn
Bosh
Hawkins
Draymond
Rasheed

[tanibanana]

T. Heinsohn
C. Bosh
R. Wallace
C. Hawkins
A. Stoudemire

[L.Kizzle]

Ralph Sampson was one of the most unique player ever entering the league 35+ years ago. A big who could move like a much smaller man.

Bobby Jones was one of the greatest defenders ever. He made 9 consecutive All-Defensive 1st Teams. I'm not sure if that's the most but it sounds like it is.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Heinsohn
Bosh
Hawkins
Draymond
Rasheed

Changing Rasheed to Griffin

[Phoenix]

Interesting how we rank the 2nd and third tier guys. Webber is 13th, and yes he did peak as a MVP level guy in the early 2000s, while Bosh who was dropping 23/10 for 5 straight years before Miami, sacrificed stats to play a third wheel on back to backs, then went back to being a 20ppg guy when Lebron left until his health ultimately failed him.....and hasn't made top 20. Just makes me wonder when and how peak play vs career/accolades is weighed in these situations. Granted, he does have a lack of All-NBA teams but when the forward competition during his peak is Lebron, KD, Duncan, Dirk, KG......dems the breaks.

[L.Kizzle]

Changing Rasheed to Griffin
Why the switch up?
Also, why Blake over say Kevin Love, Jermaine O'Neal or Amar'e?

[L.Kizzle]

Interesting how we rank the 2nd and third tier guys. Webber is 13th, and yes he did peak as a MVP level guy in the early 2000s, while Bosh who was dropping 23/10 for 5 straight years before Miami, sacrificed stats to play a third wheel on back to backs, then went back to being a 20ppg guy when Lebron left until his health ultimately failed him.....and hasn't made top 20. Just makes me wonder when and how peak play vs career/accolades is weighed in these situations. Granted, he does have a lack of All-NBA teams but when the forward competition during his peak is Lebron, KD, Duncan, Dirk, KG......dems the breaks.
I think it may be his lack of All-NBA Teams for Bosh. I mean guys like LaMarcus and Blake had them (though I think Chris Bosh was probably better than both.)

As for Webber, he's validated as playing with Dirk, KG and Duncan in/at their absolute prime and outperforming some of them and even getting that converted all-NBA 1st team slot (which mean one of Duncan, KG, Dirk) was on the 2nd team.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Why the switch up?
Also, why Blake over say Kevin Love, Jermaine O'Neal or Amar'e?

Was sort of waffling back and fourth on Rasheed. Felt I overrated him in hindsight.

Blake over Love, O'neal and Amar'e cause I just think he's better than those guys and the achievements are comparable. I used to be Love>Griffin in like 2014, but I think I underestimated Love's weaknesses. He was barely playable against great 5-out teams like the Warriors and the Cavs played better without him at times. I think simply by virtue of his superior athleticism Blake would fare better in those situation. Blake was a better passer, finisher and became a pretty damn good 3pt shooter later on.

I also think playing next to deandre was not a great fit for him particularly before he learned to shoot, but he made it work, to his credit. Amare to my mind in the optimal fit for most of his best years in phoenix, playing with Marion an oversized wing who could guard and shoot 3s. Without Marion playing with Amare came with significant tradeoffs. Play him with Frye and your defense will suck, play him with Shaq/Lopez and your offense will struggle. He's a 4.5, Blake is a 4.

It carried over to NY after they got Melo and Chandler. You would never play Melo/Amare as your bigs because the defense would be atrocious, and you never would play Melo/Amare/Chandler due to spacing issues. He started off injured in 2013 and the Knicks looked the best they've looked since at least 1999. They got worse when he returned.

I think Blake was a slightly better, more "portable" player than Amare and probably had more high level seasons so i'll rank him higher.

[Phoenix]

I think it may be his lack of All-NBA Teams for Bosh. I mean guys like LaMarcus and Blake had them (though I think Chris Bosh was probably better than both.)

As for Webber, he's validated as playing with Dirk, KG and Duncan in/at their absolute prime and outperforming some of them and even getting that converted all-NBA 1st team slot (which mean one of Duncan, KG, Dirk) was on the 2nd team.

I get that, and as I was saying I understand that Webber peaked higher. I do get the sense that when it comes to these kinds of things, Bosh may have undermined his individual legacy to play in Miami where Lebron gets the lions share of credit. He could have continued to stay in Toronto putting up 20/10 for a decade, get to the first or second round every year, never win a ring and be viewed better than he currently is. And that's because at his tier of player we're not ring counting like we tend to do for guys at the very top.

So most won't care that Bosh won rings and Webber didnt in this instance, they'll just say prime for prime C-Webb was better and Boshs rings aren't really legacy enhancers. And that would be correct, but thats not a standard the basketball community applies across the board when it comes to peak/prime play and accolades/championships etc.

[nisso8090]

Tom Hahmbers one of the best players I've seen
Quality shots at levels.
Even when I play Xbox I always choose his team.
Better gaming (http://www.cellular-ap.co.il/category/gaming)

[Manny98]

Bosh
Amare
Draymond
Love
Sheed

[Charlie Sheen]

Maurice Lucas - Great scorer that could play with or without a dominant c next to him.
Rasheed - Gifted in the post, had touch from distance. His defense is often underrated because he played during the same time as Timmy and KG. Kizz, you remember that Joe Clair interview that got him on an e-40 track? :lol
Bosh - I think we'd see him much higher on this list if Toronto had built a proper team around him. Legit superstar for my money.
Bobby Jones - I've watched the 82 and 83 finals during the pandemic downtime. He would be a great player in any system or era.
Amare - this spot was going to him or Blake. I think they're very similar players because to maximize either one you'd need a great point guard. In those situations, I think amare is the better player.

[L.Kizzle]

Maurice Lucas - Great scorer that could play with or without a dominant c next to him.
Rasheed - Gifted in the post, had touch from distance. His defense is often underrated because he played during the same time as Timmy and KG. Kizz, you remember that Joe Clair interview that got him on an e-40 track? :lol
Bosh - I think we'd see him much higher on this list if Toronto had built a proper team around him. Legit superstar for my money.
Bobby Jones - I've watched the 82 and 83 finals during the pandemic downtime. He would be a great player in any system or era.
Amare - this spot was going to him or Blake. I think they're very similar players because to maximize either one you'd need a great point guard. In those situations, I think amare is the better player.

Awesome mentions of Maurice Lucas and Bobby Jones.

Yes, I remember that E-40 track, "Record Haters."

[dankok8]

21. Bosh
22. Bob Love
23. Heinsohn
24. Amare
25. Hawkins

[L.Kizzle]

21. Bosh
22. Bob Love
23. Heinsohn
24. Amare
25. Hawkins
Thoughts on Bob Love? The documentary Black Magic mentions him greatly. He had a real serious speech impediment early in his playing career which was destroying his confidence.

[Reggie43]

Tom Heinsohn
Maurice Lucas
Jermaine Oneal
Gus Johnson
Rasheed Wallace