MJ was just as bad as LeBron in the 2011 finals in 96

[Manny98]

https://mobile.twitter.com/theathleticnba/status/1321979728480317443?prefetchtimestamp=160419020362 1
https://i.postimg.cc/gjBMDKtF/Screenshot-20201101-230633.jpg


This gets swept under the rug but both LeBron and MJ both shot terribly from the field in 4th quarters during their respective finals but LeBron got torn to absolute shreds yet MJ got praised despite having the same stats in clutch time.

In fact overall LeBron has the best 4th quarter stats in the finals out of the big 3

https://i.postimg.cc/QtvmKMFh/Ekzve-MUX0-AIMEQA-1.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm pretty sure LeBron scored 18 in 2011, so not sure how 100% accurate those numbers are. But the key difference is only 1 game in '96 came down to the wire, while Games 2-5 in 2011 were all decided in the final minutes, where LeBron scored a total of 6 4th quarter points over those 4 games. And of those 6 points I remember he made a lay up the Mavs conceded already down 7 at the end of Game 5

[AlternativeAcc.]

79% free throws for Baldan, and that's supposedly lebrons weakness :oldlol:


God damn Jordan was a massive choker/fraud.

Derek Jeter of NBA (Nothing but casual fan hype)

[3ball]

282 points/35 games = 8.06 per 4th quarter

397 points/55 games = 7.02 per 4th quarter


But lebron was in sweeps and record losses (garbage time), and teams were scoring more so his proportion is lower

and the clutch stats (last 5 within 5) aren't close...

[Manny98]

I'm pretty sure LeBron scored 18 in 2011, so not sure how 100% accurate those numbers are. But the key difference is only 1 game in '96 came down to the wire, while Games 2-5 in 2011 were all decided in the final minutes, where LeBron scored a total of 6 4th quarter points over those 4 games. And of those 6 points I remember he made a lay up the Mavs conceded already down 7 at the end of Game 5
3/6 games in the 96 finals were single digits going into the 4th quarter

Sonics were only up by 2 heading into the 4th quarter of game 5 and MJ procceed to shoot 1/5 with an opportunity to close the series

[Manny98]

282 points/35 games = 8.06 per 4th quarter

397 points/55 games = 7.02 per 4th quarter


But lebron was in sweeps and record losses (garbage time), and teams were scoring more so his proportion is lower

and the clutch stats (last 5 within 5) aren't close...
Only 1 point difference but LeBron was way more efficient down the stretch

[3ball]

3/6 games in the 96 finals were single digits going into the 4th quarter

Sonics were only up by 2 heading into the 4th quarter of game 5 and MJ procceed to shoot 1/5 with an opportunity to close the series

MJ won with his sidekick MIA - 15 on 34% from pippen.. no one ever won with such a bad sidekick

MJ averaged 31 on 46% to get a 3-0 lead.. the rest is garbage time

[And1AllDay]

https://mobile.twitter.com/theathleticnba/status/1321979728480317443?prefetchtimestamp=160419020362 1
https://i.postimg.cc/gjBMDKtF/Screenshot-20201101-230633.jpg


This gets swept under the rug but both LeBron and MJ both shot terribly from the field in 4th quarters during their respective finals but LeBron got torn to absolute shreds yet MJ got praised despite having the same stats in clutch time.

In fact overall LeBron has the best 4th quarter stats in the finals out of the big 3

https://i.postimg.cc/QtvmKMFh/Ekzve-MUX0-AIMEQA-1.jpg

wow is this tru

[Manny98]

MJ won with his sidekick MIA - 15 on 34% from pippen.. no one ever won with such a bad sidekick

MJ averaged 31 on 46% to get a 3-0 lead.. the rest is garbage time
No one ever won with the teams first option shooting 41% from the field overall and 35% from the field in 4 quarters either :oldlol:

Thank god for Rodman (the real 96 FMVP) collecting all of Ordans bricks that series


https://youtu.be/E_qUoOBBlA0

[Manny98]

wow is this tru
Yep Jordan wasn't the clutch god that never missed a gamewinner the media portrays him to be

[3ball]

No one ever won with the teams first option shooting 41% from the field overall and 35% from the field in 4 quarters either :oldlol:

Thank god for Rodman (the real 96 FMVP) collecting all of Ordans bricks that series


https://youtu.be/E_qUoOBBlA0

Lebron had the worst true shooting of any winner in 2013 and was a net negative for the series

[dankok8]

LMAO

A thread this ridiculous doesn't warrant a response. You're brainless if you think '96 MJ was anywhere near as bad as '11 Lebron.

[3ball]

Yep Jordan wasn't the clutch god that never missed a gamewinner the media portrays him to be

Down the stretch of tight games (last 5 within 5), lebron shoots 40% on 3.0 attempts per game for his playoff career, compared to 47% on 3.6 attempts for 97' and 98' Jordan (20% more attempts with much better efficiency)

[And1AllDay]

Yep Jordan wasn't the clutch god that never missed a gamewinner the media portrays him to be

what a fraud.

too bad he cant do this

https://i.postimg.cc/MGR4Fm7m/GOATchipalltime.jpg

[And1AllDay]

LMAO

A thread this ridiculous doesn't warrant a response. You're brainless if you think '96 MJ was anywhere near as bad as '11 Lebron.

:roll::oldlol:

shook

[Manny98]

LMAO

A thread this ridiculous doesn't warrant a response. You're brainless if you think '96 MJ was anywhere near as bad as '11 Lebron.
*In 4th quarters*

[3ball]

.
Down the stretch of tight playoff games (last 5 within 5):


2006-2018 LEBRON PLAYOFFS... 134-323... 41.4%... 108 games.. 3.0 attempts per game


1997 & 1998 JORDAN PLAYOFFS'... 42-89... 47.2%... 25 games... 3.6 attempts per game


TLDR: Down the stretch of tight playoff games (last 5 within 5), Lebron shoots 41% on 3.0 attempts per game for his playoff career, compared to 47% on 3.6 attempts for 97' and 98' MJ (20% more attempts on better efficiency)



Sources:

Lebron:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&match=play&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&is_playoffs=Y&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=5&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-5&margin_max=5&player_id=jamesle01&order_by=date_game


Jordan:

Jordan 1997 Playoffs (https://stats.nba.com/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals)... 20-39.. 51.3% (11 games)
Jordan 1998 Playoffs (https://stats.nba.com/players/clutch-traditional/?sort=PTS&dir=-1&Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Playoffs&PerMode=Totals)... 22-50.. 44.0% (14 games)


Btw, lebron's stats are the same as Kobe and KD's (40% on 3 attempts a game).. so MJ was just a cut above everyone


TLDR: Down the stretch of tight games (last 5 within 5), lebron shoots 40% on 3.0 attempts per game for his playoff career, compared to 47% on 3.6 attempts for 97' and 98' Jordan (20% more attempts with much better efficiency).

[Manny98]

Lebron had the worst true shooting of any winner in 2013 and was a net negative for the series

No that was actually MJ 51% true shooting in the 98 finals

[light]

MJ was fortunate that he only faced Gary Payton and not someone like Dirk Nowitzki.

GP was a very good player but he wasn't MVP caliber and he wasn't on Dirk's level of greatness (ESPN recently ranked Dirk the 19th greatest player of all time with Gary Payton outside of the top 50).

People will say, "But Gary is why MJ played so poorly" and that may be true, but MJ adamantly denies it and says he sucked because he was thinking about his daddy and father's day. Well, okay, fine - if that's the case then I maintain that MJ was very fortunate to only have to face a lower tier star like GP or else he would have lost that series.

[3ball]

No that was actually MJ 51% true shooting in the 98 finals

Okay but lebron's 13' was worse than MJ's 96

[And1AllDay]

No that was actually MJ 51% true shooting in the 98 finals

:roll: :roll:

i also just noticed mikey had one block during the entire finals 96. wtf :oldlol: was that boi sleepin? couldn't block 6'2 payton?!

[3ball]

:roll: :roll:

i also just noticed mikey had one block during the entire finals 96. wtf :oldlol: was that boi sleepin? couldn't block 6'2 payton?!

That's what a carry-job looks like

When did lebron win a Finals or beat any top 5 SRS team (good team)with 15 on 34% from his sidekick.. when did he ever beat a good team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick?..

Face facts - lebron never had a carry-job against a good team - he always needed good scoring and efficiency from his sidekick to beat good teams because he wasn't a god scorer like MJ to carry the load

[72-10]

MJ was on the receiving end of the triangle offense and therefore, of course, once again bore the scoring load for the Bulls. Therefore, he could focus more on improving his off-ball game; he tried to figure out new ways to get open without the ball although at this point in his career there was not much left to come up with. He minimized his dribbles and focused on his shooting. MJ's shot selection that season varied mostly between mid-range jumpers and mid-range fadeaways, although he also distributed the ball a bit more and drove more that season than in the two years to come.

[And1AllDay]

That's what a carry-job looks like

When did lebron win a Finals or beat any top 5 SRS team (good team)with 15 on 34% from his sidekick.. when did he ever beat a good team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick?..

Face facts - lebron never had a carry-job against a good team - he always needed good scoring and efficiency from his sidekick to beat good teams

1 block for a full finals "DPOY" :oldlol: foh

41% fg vs a 6'2 midget? nah

[Manny98]

:roll: :roll:

i also just noticed mikey had one block during the entire finals 96. wtf :oldlol: was that boi sleepin? couldn't block 6'2 payton?!
He literally had the two greatest defenders ever to carry him on defense

Let's not forget his whopping 2 assists and 4 rebounds in the 98 finals :oldlol:

[And1AllDay]

He literally had the two greatest defenders ever to carry him on defense

Let's not forget his whopping 2 assists and 4 rebounds in the 98 finals :oldlol:

this boi is a fraud

:oldlol: mikey is in hot water thanks to 1-9ball

[Axe]

3ball fuming with his usual insecurity

[HoopsNY]

MJ was fortunate that he only faced Gary Payton and not someone like Dirk Nowitzki.

GP was a very good player but he wasn't MVP caliber and he wasn't on Dirk's level of greatness (ESPN recently ranked Dirk the 19th greatest player of all time with Gary Payton outside of the top 50).

People will say, "But Gary is why MJ played so poorly" and that may be true, but MJ adamantly denies it and says he sucked because he was thinking about his daddy and father's day. Well, okay, fine - if that's the case then I maintain that MJ was very fortunate to only have to face a lower tier star like GP or else he would have lost that series.

More revisionist history from Bran stans. MJ's 1996 performance was somehow equivalent to LeBron's 2011, yet no mention of the fact that Chicago won the title, Jordan won FMVP, and of course, no mention of Jordan switching onto GP when Harper went down.

Bran stans never mention defense and how impactful MJ was defensively because they know very well it debunks their mythology. In addition, Payton is demoted from being a great player to a "very good player" by Bran stans standards.

1996 Payton: DPOY/All-Defensive 1st Team/All-NBA 2nd Team
2011 Dirk: Trash defensively/No All-Defensive selections/All-NBA 2nd team

MVP Voting
Payton 1996: 6th
Dirk 2011: 6th

But Payton isn't the one who is "MVP caliber". This is why I always say, what goes for LeBron doesn't go for MJ. The disingenuous nature of Bran stan arguments is apparent beyond belief.

"Lower tier star" :lol

[1987_Lakers]

Obama said it best.


https://streamable.com/m5r66

[3ball]

He literally had the two greatest defenders ever to carry him on defense

Let's not forget his whopping 2 assists and 4 rebounds in the 98 finals :oldlol:

Pippen was outplayed by schrempf and played horrible defense

Otoh, MJ actually guarded Payton as the primary defender

MJ also got more dpoy votes than pippen every year, and rodman wasn't even all-defense in 97' or 98'

[light]

Jordan wasn't just as bad, he was actually a little bit worse.

Scoring + Assist Points Created, REB, FG, TS:

Jordan 1996 Finals: 36.1 ppg, 5.3 rpg, .415 FG%, .538 TS%
LeBron 2011 Finals: 34.2 ppg, 7.2 rpg, .478 FG%, .541 TS%

I dare say that 2011 Finals LeBron was better than 1996 Finals Jordan.

[dankok8]

Comparing these two Finals proves how clueless people on here are.

How about we consider what we saw on the court? Lebron being passive and wanting no part of anything.

How about we consider that the Bulls won the championship and the Heat got upset by a lesser team?

How about we consider crunch time play? Lebron scored 0 points in 18 crunch time minutes in the Finals...

How about we consider defense? Lebron got lit up by Jason Terry and JJ Barea.

[Hey Yo]

Comparing these two Finals proves how clueless people on here are.

How about we consider what we saw on the court? Lebron being passive and wanting no part of anything.

How about we consider that the Bulls won the championship and the Heat got upset by a lesser team?

How about we consider crunch time play? Lebron scored 0 points in 18 crunch time minutes in the Finals...

How about we consider defense? Lebron got lit up by Jason Terry and JJ Barea.
How about you consider Wade was Terry's primary defender?

Why do you give him a pass on defense?

[dankok8]

How about you consider Wade was Terry's primary defender?

Why do you give him a pass on defense?

Who's giving Wade a pass? Wade also had a few terrible moments in crunch time and didn't play good defense but he was miles ahead of Lebron in that series.

[Hey Yo]

Who's giving Wade a pass? Wade also had a few terrible moments in crunch time and didn't play good defense but he was miles ahead of Lebron in that series.
You mentioned James getting lit up by Terry but no mention of Wade who was JT's primary defender.

[Phoenix]

How about you consider Wade was Terry's primary defender?

Why do you give him a pass on defense?

Wade as the starter was the primary defender on a bench player? So who was primarily defending Kidd, Barea and Stephenson, the Mavs starters?