Lebron hasn't won MVP in 7 years... Jordan won MVP at 33 and 35

[3ball]

Jordan was also top 5 DPOY every year, while lebron hasn't been all-defense in 7 years

So Jordan was MVP and DPOY-caliber for 11 years (88-98'), versus 4 years for lebron (09-13')

aka Jordan's standard on both ends was much higher (#1 scorer and dpoy candidate versus #10 scorer and no defense for lebron)

Lebron actually stopped winning MVP's when he stopped making all-defense 7 years ago

[Phoenix]

1 out of 9

[8Ball]

LeBron finals mvp 2012 and 2020
Jordan 91 and 98.

LeBron peak is longer than Jordan's.

LeBron has 13 all nba 1st teams.
Jordan has 10 all nba 1st teams.

[3ball]

LeBron finals mvp 2012 and 2020
Jordan 91 and 98.

LeBron peak is longer than Jordan's.

LeBron has 13 all nba 1st teams.
Jordan has 10 all nba 1st teams.

You're championing length of dominance, and I'm championing DEGREE of dominance, which is a much bigger driver for winning

A team wins more with an MVP winner and DPOY-candidate than a #2 MVP and no defense

[RoundMoundOfReb]

1 out of 9

1 AND 9, 1 out of 10

[3ball]

1 AND 9, 1 out of 10

What wins more...

a player whose standard is #10 scorer, no MVP and no defense....

or a player whose standard is #1 scorer, MVP, and DPOY candidate?


So you're focusing on length of dominance, and I'm focusing on DEGREE of dominance, which is a much bigger driver for winning

[SouBeachTalents]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jyuus-hQ84&ab_channel=VevoMusicGroup

[Phoenix]

1 AND 9, 1 out of 10

Good correction.

[8Ball]

You're championing length of dominance, and I'm championing DEGREE of dominance, which is a much bigger driver for winning

A team wins more with an MVP winner and DPOY-candidate than a #2 MVP and no defense

degree of dominance:

LeBron = 7 playoff runs with 30 PER or more

Jordan = 5 playoff runs with 30 PER or more (I threw in a 29.9 PER playoff run)

Jordan highest PER playoff run 1991 = 32 PER

LeBron highest PER playoff run 2009 = 37.4
2nd highest PER playoff run 2018 = 32.2

[3ball]

degree of dominance:

LeBron = 7 playoff runs with 30 PER or more

Jordan = 5 playoff runs with 30 PER or more (I threw in a 29.9 PER playoff run)

Jordan highest PER playoff run 1991 = 32 PER

LeBron highest PER playoff run 2009 = 37.4
2nd highest PER playoff run 2018 = 32.2

When is the last time lebron won MVP?.. (nothing since his 20's)

When was the last time he was all-defense?... (nothing since his 20's)

So MJ was better in his 30's (and obviously his 20's)

[SouBeachTalents]

When is the last time lebron won MVP?.. (in his 20's was the last time)

When was the last time he was all-defense?... (in his 20's was the last time)

So MJ was better in his 30's (and obviously his 20's)
Nah, I understand he plays in an era that caters to offense, but 31-35 LeBron has undoubtedly been better in the playoffs than Jordan. 2016 absolutely shits on Jordan's last 3 Finals, and trying to argue any of Jordan's post baseball playoff runs are in the vicinity of 2018 is laughable

[Bronbron23]

Jordan was also top 5 DPOY every year, while lebron hasn't been all-defense in 7 years

So Jordan was MVP and DPOY-caliber for 11 years (88-98'), versus 4 years for lebron (09-13')

aka Jordan's standard on both ends was much higher (#1 scorer and dpoy candidate versus #10 scorer and no defense for lebron)

Lebron actually stopped winning MVP's when he stopped making all-defense 7 years ago

He saves himself for post season. Wether or not you agree with that is another debate. Its helped prolong his career so its hard to argue against. Plus MVP's dont mean alot tbh. Both mj and bron should have way more than they do.

[3ball]

31-35 LeBron has been better in the playoffs than Jordan.



The stats say the opposite and you obviously never watched Jordan

Scoring domination looks more dominant than ball-domination or defensive rebounds

And lebron won less, which factors into the stats - lebron employs a less winning brand that favors stat accumulation more than the triangle, aka westbrooking..

night and day.. let's see him get those stats in the triangle with no PG role and win 6 titles

so he needs extra talent to offset the suboptimal brand - he could never win with AD scoring like pippen because the teamwork is insufficient... his best ring was 13' where Wade was only peak pippen (20/5/5 on 48%)






2016 absolutely shits on Jordan's last 3 Finals,




Lebron had an equal-scoring partner to take attention away, so 16' would rank last compared to Jordan's rings

If KJ destroyed MJ in the 93' Finals, would Barkley get credit for a goat accomplishment by winning that series?.. or if Rik Smits outplayed Shaq in 00', would Miller get credit for a goat accomplishment?

So why should lebron get credit when Kyrie killed Curry (unanimous MVP).. If everyone knew that MVP Curry wouldn't exist and Kyrie would destroy him, everyone would've predicted a Cavs victory.

Only Clutch Sports can spin an equal-scoring, shared load into a carry-job superior to Jordan averaging 20 more than his sidekick






And trying to argue any of Jordan's post baseball playoff runs are in the vicinity of 2018 is laughable



Lebron beat garbage teams in 18' - anyone can do that

The 89' Cavs were better than any team lebron ever beat in the East - they were #1 SRS with 3 all-stars - lebron never beat this in the East, so the 88' and 89' Bulls win the 11-20 East and 07' and 09'


Btw, the awards show how they compared relative to their competition, and MJ actually won the MVP - so imagine Giannis winning the title this year at 35 - that was MJ - a 35-year old winning MVP (not 2nd place) and the title.

[red1]

OP you could have built and sold 10 different businesses if you channeled even a fraction of the energy you spend thinking on lebron.







You are the definition of insane.

[3ball]

OP you could have built and sold 10 different businesses if you channeled even a fraction of the energy you spend thinking on lebron.







You are the definition of insane.

Society sucks bro.. we rank last in everything worldwide - education, healthcare, criminal justice, and even our spoon-fed economy in the land of milk and honey is no longer #1

So you can contribute and execute our failed systems but that makes you low character or ignorant.. I'll find something else

[AlternativeAcc.]

Lebron has been playoff MVP for 8 of the last 9 years

Why are you bringing up regular season awards where everyone knows he's been snubbed?

Hang-time and awards that he should have received? Those are your arguments now?

Good lord you're weak.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Society sucks bro.. we rank last in everything worldwide - education, healthcare, criminal justice, and even our spoon-fed economy in the land of milk and honey is no longer #1

So you can contribute and execute our failed systems but that makes you low character or ignorant.. I'll find something else

None of this is remotely true

This dude literally is a woke conspiracy moron

I thought 3ball was actually bright at one point, Jesus was i wrong...

[sdot_thadon]

Mj in year 15 had to be gifted a pity starting spot for the allstar game. Lebron year 17, fmvp.

[Phoenix]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/2016-03-12_Collage_of_various_signage_styles_along_U.S._Ro ute_1_and_U.S._Route_9_%28U.S._Route_1%269%29_in_n ortheastern_New_Jersey.jpg/220px-2016-03-12_Collage_of_various_signage_styles_along_U.S._Ro ute_1_and_U.S._Route_9_%28U.S._Route_1%269%29_in_n ortheastern_New_Jersey.jpg

[3ball]

None of this is remotely true

This dude literally is a woke conspiracy moron

I thought 3ball was actually bright at one point, Jesus was i wrong...

We rank 40th in education worldwide

And we rank similarly low in healthcare and criminal justice

These are statistical facts

[AlternativeAcc.]

We rank 40th in education worldwide

And we rank similarly low in healthcare and criminal justice

These are statistical facts

Post the stats

You said dead last too, now its 40th... weird

You're really going off the deep end my guy

[8Ball]

Society sucks bro.. we rank last in everything worldwide - education, healthcare, criminal justice, and even our spoon-fed economy in the land of milk and honey is no longer #1

So you can contribute and execute our failed systems but that makes you low character or ignorant.. I'll find something else

Tell me why the systems are failed.

2019 and 2020 has been the greatest money year for me. I am doing well financially. This is the greatest time to be alive.

[3ball]

Tell me why the systems are failed.

2019 and 2020 has been the greatest money year for me. I am doing well financially. This is the greatest time to be alive.

Trump lowered corporate taxes, which boosted the economy. Even lower incomes started rising, which was unprecedented

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Trump lowered corporate taxes, which boosted the economy. Even lower incomes started rising, which was unprecedented

What about what LeBron has done through the LeBron James Family Foundation? That has boosted the economy as well.

[3ball]

What about what LeBron has done through the LeBron James Family Foundation? That has boosted the economy as well.

Unfortunately that's a drop in the bucket but good marketing and better than nothing

Let's give the city kids the same pampered private school education that the rich kids get - literally every school should be one of those expensive private schools where the teachers make 100k with amazing curriculum and teach the kids a mentality of pursuit

[Gus Hemmingway]

Nah, I understand he plays in an era that caters to offense, but 31-35 LeBron has undoubtedly been better in the playoffs than Jordan. 2016 absolutely shits on Jordan's last 3 Finals, and trying to argue any of Jordan's post baseball playoff runs are in the vicinity of 2018 is laughable

31-35 LeBron has better stats than Peak Jordan :oldlol:


This is something 3ball never found a good rebuttal to

[SATAN]

MVP is a pretty meaningless award. For what it's worth, LeBron coasts during regular season and is in the convo every year though.

[TheCorporation]

LeBron finals mvp 2012 and 2020
Jordan 91 and 98.

LeBron peak is longer than Jordan's.

LeBron has 13 all nba 1st teams.
Jordan has 10 all nba 1st teams.

OP cooked up and discarded again. He likes the abuse. He just has to.

[TheCorporation]

31-35 LeBron has better stats than Peak Jordan :oldlol:


This is something 3ball never found a good rebuttal to

bUt wHo hUnG iN tHe aiR mORe

[3ball]

31-35 LeBron has better stats than Peak Jordan :oldlol:




False.. posting the stats shortly

[SATAN]

bUt wHo hUnG iN tHe aiR mORe

:lol

[3ball]

31-35 LeBron has better stats than Peak Jordan :oldlol:




90-93' Jordan... 12.2 BPM... 0.271 ws/48... 11.0 VORP in 74 games.. 30.0 PER.. 34 and 7 apg
16-20' Lebron... 11.1 BPM... 0.271 ws/48... 10.8 VORP in 82 games.. 30.7 PER.. 30 and 8 apg

90-93' Jordan... 2 MVP... 4 All-Defense... 3 rings... 15 more ppg than sidekick (carry-job)
16-20' Lebron... 0 MVP... 0 All-Defense... 2 rings..... 3 more ppg than sidekick (shared load)


CONCLUSION: Jordan dominated at a higher level (MVP and all-defense carry-jobs > no MVP and no defense shared load)

[SATAN]

LeBron James is the best to ever pick up a basketball.

[3ball]

.
Adding up the SRS of opponents during championship runs (highest SRS total = toughest run)


https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-02-2020/ObKNnr.gif




LeBron James is the best to ever pick up a basketball.
lol better except:


less MVP's

lower ring count and ring frequency

lower production rate

3 sidekicks that outscored him for entire playoff runs (edit: kyrie only matched lebron in 16')

weaker comp (see graphic above)

[Gus Hemmingway]

90-93' Jordan... 12.2 BPM... 0.271 ws/48... 11.0 VORP in 74 games.. 30.0 PER.. 34 and 7 apg
16-20' Lebron... 11.1 BPM... 0.271 ws/48... 10.8 VORP in 82 games.. 30.7 PER.. 30 and 8 apg

90-93' Jordan... 2 MVP... 4 All-Defense... 3 rings... 15 more ppg than sidekick (carry-job)
16-20' Lebron... 0 MVP... 0 All-Defense... 2 rings..... 3 more ppg than sidekick (shared load)


CONCLUSION: Jordan dominated at a higher level (MVP and all-defense carry-jobs > no MVP and no defense shared load)


So LeBron had the higher PER, same ws/48, higher FG%, more rebounds, more assists and you also rounded down LeBron’s stats as well

Thanks for playing :oldlol:

[3ball]

So LeBron had the higher PER, same ws/48, higher FG%, more rebounds, more assists and you also rounded down LeBron’s stats as well

Thanks for playing :oldlol:

It's amazing he won rings without needing to be all-defense or MVP or scoring champ like mj

[Gus Hemmingway]

It's amazing he won rings without needing to be all-defense or MVP or scoring champ like mj


It’s amazing Jordan won with 4 rebounds and 2 assists (worst rebounder and playmaker on his team) while LeBron lost with 12 rebounds and 10 assists (best rebounder and playmaker on his team)

[SATAN]

MJ would have shit his pants if he were facing GSW.

[AirBonner]

Would LeBron have championship fatigue if he faced the 2016 Raptors every year?

[Pipes2.0]

1-9

[AlternativeAcc.]

bUt wHo hUnG iN tHe aiR mORe

:roll:

OP getting destroyed again

Ducking and hiding, and will eventually dissappear

He's a coward like Jordan, quits when the going gets tough

[light]

Jordan won 4 of his 5 MVPs after 1990, in a weak league where there was not a lot of talent at the top.

Guys like Magic and Bird suffered from ailments and it left a vacuum in the 90's. The remaining players were not that great.

On the other hand LeBron plays in a league chock full of elite talent, and a lot of them on the same team, more similar to the 80's - making having the best record more difficult hence winning MVP more difficult.

So Jordan wouldnt win 5 MVPs under these conditions. He may have only won once or twice, like Kobe.

Honestly, LeBron in that 90's league, on the Bulls instead of MJ, would've won MVP for maybe 9 consecutive years with as many championships.

[TheCorporation]

.
Adding up the SRS of opponents during championship runs (highest SRS total = toughest run)


https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-02-2020/ObKNnr.gif




lol better except:


less MVP's

lower ring count and ring frequency

lower production rate

3 sidekicks that outscored him for entire playoff runs (edit: kyrie only matched lebron in 16')

weaker comp (see graphic above)

Lower Production with having the highest production of all time? Interesting

https://i.postimg.cc/bvHQVZjL/TOP-OF-THE-TOP.png

[TheCorporation]

:roll:

OP getting destroyed again

Ducking and hiding, and will eventually dissappear

He's a coward like Jordan, quits when the going gets tough

bUt hIs aIr hAng dOe

:lol

OP is a poor, silly son of a bitch. He's the forum retard, but he's our retard :cheers:

[dankok8]

90-93' Jordan... 12.2 BPM... 0.271 ws/48... 11.0 VORP in 74 games.. 30.0 PER.. 34 and 7 apg
16-20' Lebron... 11.1 BPM... 0.271 ws/48... 10.8 VORP in 82 games.. 30.7 PER.. 30 and 8 apg

90-93' Jordan... 2 MVP... 4 All-Defense... 3 rings... 15 more ppg than sidekick (carry-job)
16-20' Lebron... 0 MVP... 0 All-Defense... 2 rings..... 3 more ppg than sidekick (shared load)


CONCLUSION: Jordan dominated at a higher level (MVP and all-defense carry-jobs > no MVP and no defense shared load)

The offensive stats are more close if you pick 2016-2020 as peak Lebron but it should be said that defensively there is a huge chasm between them. Jordan in the early 90's was a much better defender whereas Lebron in this period had really declined on that end. For that reason I would say that 2012-2014 Lebron was a better player. At times especially during the 2017 and 2018 Finals, the man was actually a defensive liability.