Magic & Lebron are "pippens" because they must feed finishers like AD/Kareem...

[3ball]

or other elite scorers to finish possessions

Otoh, MJ didn't need a possession-closer because he could score whenever he wanted.

So Magic and Lebron need highly-assisted closers to win, while MJ was the closer and still the leading assist guy

[tpols]

Magic was still leading teams to the Finals without Kareem...

Kareem couldn't win shit without Oscar or Magic.

[Kblaze8855]

Kareems greatest weapon was having the most unstoppable one on one move in history. Nobody had to assist Kareem. Give him the ball and get out of the way and he was the best weapon in the league most of his career. That’s not being a play finisher.

Kareem was a scorer no matter how he got the ball.

[SouBeachTalents]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?475176-AD-is-shedding-light-on-Kareem-s-career-amp-ranking-imo-(new-all-time-rankings-inside)

What a clown :oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

Magic was still leading teams to the Finals without Kareem...

Kareem couldn't win shit without Oscar or Magic.


Doing 12 ppg on 43% shooting on all 2 pointers you would have been slaughtering Oscar for some of those runs with Kareem. You would probably call Oscar a cancer by that last finals run the way you limit all evaluation to shooting numbers.

[tpols]

Doing 12 ppg on 43% shooting on all 2 pointers you would have been slaughtering Oscar for some of those runs with Kareem. You would probably call Oscar a cancer by that last finals run the way you limit all evaluation to shooting numbers.

Oscar averaged 18/9/5 on good efficiency in the playoffs in the 1971 ring. Was top 5 MVP in the regular season. This Bob Dandridge fellow was a multiple time all star, all NBA, and all defense award winner. And if that wasn't enough the 4th option on the team, Jon McGlocklin, was an all star. Nah... I wouldn't shit on that for help. That's very good help.

[tpols]

Oh and the team the KAJ led Bucks beat in the 1971 Finals?

They're leading scorer was a guy by the name of Jack Marin.

:roll:

[Stanley Kobrick]

Doing 12 ppg on 43% shooting on all 2 pointers you would have been slaughtering Oscar for some of those runs with Kareem. You would probably call Oscar a cancer by that last finals run the way you limit all evaluation to shooting numbers.
:cheers:

[Kblaze8855]

501 true shooting in the playoffs that ring? You would have clowned Dandridge. And the 71 Bullets started 3 hall of famers and Marin was an all star a few times.

[tpols]

Oscar, Dandridge, and McGlocklin shot a respective 46, 49, and 54% from the field. We really don't have many advanced stats from back then but their winshares were very good as well. Oscar Robertson was never Westbrook... no matter if you want to paint him that way. I didn't even watch him but know there's no way in hell he was that dumb. People used to say he was smart actually.

[tpols]

Everybody back then had lower advanced efficiencies. There were no 3's taken. FT's look scarce. So yea... their TS isn't gonna be great.

Kareem only shot on 54 TS. So it was a different game than today.

[3ball]

Magic was still leading teams to the Finals without Kareem...

Kareem couldn't win shit without Oscar or Magic.


PLAYOFFS

91' Perkins.... 18/8.. 1.4 blk.. 62.5 ts.. 17.7 PER.. 3.8 BPM.. 0.150 ws/48.. 1.1 VORP
91' Vlade....... 13/7.. 2.2 blk.. 62.0 ts.. 17.5 PER.. 4.3 BPM.. 0.137 ws/48.. 1.0 VORP

89' Kareem... 11/4.. 0.7 blk.. 50.1 ts.. 11.9 PER.. -3.2 BPM.. 0.038 ws/48.. -1.0 VORP
88' Kareem... 14/5.. 1.5 blk.. 50.0 ts.. 13.8 PER.. -2.0 BPM.. 0.054 ws/48.. 0.0 VORP


lol..

Worthy was a juggernaut FMVP, so it was Magic/Worthy making those Finals in the late 80's

[HoopsNY]

Magic was still leading teams to the Finals without Kareem...

Kareem couldn't win shit without Oscar or Magic.

Kareem led the '74 Bucks to the finals when Oscar was 35 barely averaging 6 assists. Let's not act like Bran stans who like to behave as if MJ's 1987-88 season was somehow due to Pippen's arrival.

Kareem put up 27/15/5 on 54% in the 1973-74 season. Oscar was 35 putting up 13/4/6 on 44%. In the WCF, Oscar played well (averaged 16/10), but Kareem put up 35/20/4 on 66% (Got damn!). So this assessment of Kareem is rather unfair.


Kareems greatest weapon was having the most unstoppable one on one move in history. Nobody had to assist Kareem. Give him the ball and get out of the way and he was the best weapon in the league most of his career. That’s not being a play finisher.

Kareem was a scorer no matter how he got the ball.

Bingo. Plenty of oversimplification in the OP. Kareem's rookie season saw him lead his team to 56 wins and him averaging 29 PPG. That didn't come with an elite passing guard like Oscar or Magic.

And when Oscar got old and wasn't the same player, Kareem still dominated.

[tpols]

PLAYOFFS

91' Perkins.... 18/8.. 1.4 blk.. 62.5 ts.. 17.7 PER.. 3.8 BPM.. 0.150 ws/48.. 1.1 VORP
91' Vlade....... 13/7.. 2.2 blk.. 62.0 ts.. 17.5 PER.. 4.3 BPM.. 0.137 ws/48.. 1.0 VORP

89' Kareem... 11/4.. 0.7 blk.. 50.1 ts.. 11.9 PER.. -3.2 BPM.. 0.038 ws/48.. -1.0 VORP
88' Kareem... 14/5.. 1.5 blk.. 50.0 ts.. 13.8 PER.. -2.0 BPM.. 0.054 ws/48.. 0.0 VORP


lol

So... Magic carried a negative producing Kareem to championship lol?

What point are you trying to make?

If AD averaged those stats this year LA wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

[HoopsNY]

PLAYOFFS

91' Perkins.... 18/8.. 1.4 blk.. 62.5 ts.. 17.7 PER.. 3.8 BPM.. 0.150 ws/48.. 1.1 VORP
91' Vlade....... 13/7.. 2.2 blk.. 62.0 ts.. 17.5 PER.. 4.3 BPM.. 0.137 ws/48.. 1.0 VORP

89' Kareem... 11/4.. 0.7 blk.. 50.1 ts.. 11.9 PER.. -3.2 BPM.. 0.038 ws/48.. -1.0 VORP
88' Kareem... 14/5.. 1.5 blk.. 50.0 ts.. 13.8 PER.. -2.0 BPM.. 0.054 ws/48.. 0.0 VORP


lol

Post Kareem's rookie numbers and his '73-'74 numbers with a 35 year old Oscar :lol

[3ball]

Post Kareem's rookie numbers and his '73-'74 numbers with a 35 year old Oscar :lol

Well we know how dominant Kareem was back then because he pulled off the impossible feat of winning the title as scoring champ in 71'

Only peak Shaq did that in 00'.. So peak Shaq (00'), peak Kareem (71'), and jordan's 6 rings

[3ball]

So... Magic carried a negative producing Kareem to championship lol?

What point are you trying to make?

If AD averaged those stats this year LA wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

Worthy was a juggernaut FMVP and led the Lakers in scoring those years, so it was Magic/Worthy making those Finals in the late 80's.. also Byron Scott (20 ppg sniper) and Vlade/Perkins (both were 18/8 in Finals)

Otoh, Kareem was barely above replacement (negative vorp).. it's one of the reasons he isn't goat

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:oldlol:

Comparing Pippen to Magic is an insult. They're not even in the same tier.

You can shit on Bron without making a complete goof of yourself. There are a number of talking points to be had. Coming up with one might take you a little longer than most, but rest assured they're out there.

[3ball]

:oldlol:

Comparing Pippen to Magic is an insult. They're not even in the same tier.

You can shit on Bron without making a complete goof of yourself. There are a number of talking points to be had. Coming up with one might take you a little longer than most, but rest assured they're out there.

It wasn't a straight comparison

I never said lebron = pippen

I said lebron is "a pippen" (in quotes) - this means something different, which the thread title explains

[3ball]

Kareems greatest weapon was having the most unstoppable one on one move in history. Nobody had to assist Kareem. Give him the ball and get out of the way and he was the best weapon in the league most of his career. That’s not being a play finisher.

Kareem was a scorer no matter how he got the ball.

Yes peak Kareem might be the goat iso player - him or Jordan...

And that's what lebron and magic need - great iso guys that can finish possessions like Kareem, Wade, Kyrie, Worthy or AD - elite 1st option juggernaut scorers - that's what lebron/magic need

Otoh, Jordan was the finisher for the Bulls - he was the juggernaut scorer and also the leading assist guy

[Manny98]

So you admit that Jordan needed Pippen to feed him

[8Ball]

So you admit that Jordan needed Pippen to feed him

Yes.

LeBron doesn't need a Pippen to help him score more points than Jordan lifetime :cheers:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kareem/Davis need passers like Oscar/Magic/LeBron to triple their assist per game in playoffs. AKA spoonfed.

Lowry only averaged 2.7 more assists then Kawhi.

[2ball]

Op proving once again he never actually watched the game

[3ball]

Yes.

LeBron doesn't need a Pippen to help him score more points than Jordan lifetime :cheers:

Jordan wasn't a low-assist guy like AD or Kareem

He averaged 6 apg and more than pippen

So you're wrong as usual and can't refute the OP as usual

[2ball]

Jordan wasn't a low-assist guy like AD or Kareem

He averaged 6 apg and more than pippen

So you're wrong as usual and can't refute the OP as usual

3ball you think you can just sneak this shit in here? :lol

[sdot_thadon]

Worthy was a juggernaut FMVP and led the Lakers in scoring those years.....

Can honestly say i haven't ever seen the words Worthy and juggernaut in the same sentence until today.:oldlol:

[8Ball]

Jordan wasn't a low-assist guy like AD or Kareem

He averaged 6 apg and more than pippen

So you're wrong as usual and can't refute the OP as usual

LeBron gonna pass Kareem in all time points in 2.5 more seasons. Nobody ever bird fed LeBron any points and he passed Jordan in scoring all time on his own. So LeBron is both a facilitator like Magic and a scorer like Kareem. :cheers:

GOAT gonna GOAT.

[3ball]

Can honestly say i haven't ever seen the words Worthy and juggernaut in the same sentence until today.:oldlol:

You didn't watch the NBA on CBS in the 80's, so you're ridiculously ignorant.. you have no idea what you're talking about

Worthy's nickname was "Big Game James" and he was called a juggernaut all the time - but you never watched in the 80's so you wouldn't know..

Worthy led the Lakers in scoring for the 87-89' Playoffs, including 24 on 59% in 87'.... FMVP in 88'... 25 on 57% in 89'...

Heck, he averaged 22 on 62% in his first Finals (84').. so he played better than pippen ever did.... MANY TIMES.. FOR YEARS... imagine if pippen's 10 on 40% was replaced by "Piston-killer" Worthy in 88'.. MJ would've 3-peated with Worthy starting in 88'

[Shooter]

So you admit that Jordan needed Pippen to feed him

:roll::roll:

HOLY ****

Best ether of 2020


BREAKING: MJ was birdfed by Pippen
---

https://i.postimg.cc/15ZxGtnd/DaddyPipCarriesMJ.png

https://i.postimg.cc/v83kqbKX/bango_bango.gif

[light]

or other elite scorers to finish possessions

Otoh, MJ didn't need a possession-closer because he could score whenever he wanted.

So Magic and Lebron need highly-assisted closers to win, while MJ was the closer and still the leading assist guy

Silly. LeBron already surpassed Jordan and Kobe in scoring and he is going to surpass Kareem.

Magic ranks 83rd all time in scoring.

Part of what makes LeBron the GOAT is that he's going finish his career as the all time leading scorer and top 3 in assists, surpassing Magic Johnson.

No one in history comes close to LeBron. He's the closest thing the NBA has to Wayne Gretzky (NHL all time leader in goals and assists).

So Magic Johnson is no where near LeBron's level. Neither is Michael Jordan.

[Shooter]

Silly. LeBron already surpassed Jordan and Kobe in scoring and he is going to surpass Kareem.

Magic ranks 83rd all time in scoring.

Part of what makes LeBron the GOAT is that he's going finish his career as the all time leading scorer and top 3 in assists, surpassing Magic Johnson.

No one in history comes close to LeBron. He's the closest thing the NBA has to Wayne Gretzky (NHL all time leader in goals and assists).

So Magic Johnson is no where near LeBron's level. Neither is Michael Jordan.

And THATS A WRAP

[red1]

pippen aka mr 55-wins without baldan.


big fan of pippen's bulls.

[Shooter]

Top 5

1. LeBron
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Duncan
5. Jordan

Jordan is slipping OP, better make a new thread :lol

[8Ball]

Silly. LeBron already surpassed Jordan and Kobe in scoring and he is going to surpass Kareem.

Magic ranks 83rd all time in scoring.

Part of what makes LeBron the GOAT is that he's going finish his career as the all time leading scorer and top 3 in assists, surpassing Magic Johnson.

No one in history comes close to LeBron. He's the closest thing the NBA has to Wayne Gretzky (NHL all time leader in goals and assists).

So Magic Johnson is no where near LeBron's level. Neither is Michael Jordan.

:applause:

Only LeBron can be top scorer of all time and a playmaker for his team.

[2ball]

LeBron had jr Smith as a 3rd option. MJ had Rodman as a 6th option. That’s the cold hard truth

[EllEffEll]

Do you actually think no one can see through your thinly veiled jab (with Magic merely being collateral damage) targeted directly at Lebron?

[3ball]

Do you actually think no one can see through your thinly veiled jab (with Magic merely being collateral damage) targeted directly at Lebron?


PLAYOFFS

85' Worthy... 22 on 62%
87' Worthy... 24 on 59% (30 on 62% in WCF)
88' Worthy... 21 on 52% (FMVP)
89' Worthy... 25 on 57%
90' Worthy... 25 on 53%

16' Kyrie....... 25 on 47%
17' Kyrie....... 26 on 47%


^^^ So Magic and Lebron needed two top-scoring teammates to win - Kareem/Worthy, Wade/Bosh, Kyrie/Love.... or they need Kareem/AD to lead them in playoff scoring.

Ultimately, Magic and Lebron never beat a Finals team or top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from their sidekick - so they never had carry-jobs against good teams like MJ routinely did

[3ball]

AD led the Lakers in scoring and people want to compare lebron to Jordan?

Jordan averaged 10-30 more than his sidekick in every series of his career!

[SATAN]

He was a ball hog. LeBron not so much.

[3ball]

He was a ball hog. LeBron not so much.

Jordan led the bulls in assists

So imagine AD leading the Lakers in scoring by 15 ppg and leading in assists

[SATAN]

Biggest ball hog of the 80s and 90s.

[3ball]

Biggest ball hog of the 80s and 90s.

Led his team in assists and won 6 titles as scoring champ and dpoy candidate

Only the goat can say stuff like that


Finals Career

Jordan... 34/6/6 on 49%
Pippen... 19/7/5 on 42%
Kyrie...... 28/4/4 on 47%
AD......... 25/10/3 on 57%


^^^ pippen sticks out like a sore thumb... Even Wade was better in the 11-14' Finals (20/5/4 on 48%)

[SATAN]

It was pretty funny when Horace Grant jumped ship and slayed Michael Baseballdan

[3ball]

It was pretty funny when Horace Grant jumped ship and slayed Michael Baseballdan

That was actually pretty funny

Only MJ would be in that position though

[SATAN]

Got out of the 1-10 territory. Good on him.

[leBron Bieber]

or other elite scorers to finish possessions

Otoh, MJ didn't need a possession-closer because he could score whenever he wanted.

So Magic and Lebron need highly-assisted closers to win, while MJ was the closer and still the leading assist guy

Nope . If you wanna play that game Jordan was the first basketball cancer to find success but was terrible for the game . Your shooting guard taking 40 shots in a game would get you fired 40 years ago and Jordan changed that to created the next breed of cancers ( no offense cause these are my favorite players and era ) but the 2000s is full of the one man show ball hog game mj made “ cool “ but that’s what held back the Kobe’s and iversons . They couldn’t win as a cancer . But lebron brought team back “ magic back” basketball is a team sport and people fell in love watching mj fly but lebron can do it too while passing to a teammate for a gamewinner .. Jordan would never .. just like kyrie , Harden , Westbrook the stars seen as ballhogs in this era now . Accept it mj was great but was a ball hog and cancer for that next generation as a team sport aspect . We got to see a lot of people try to shoot 40 shots tho .I bet mj iconic bald head is gonna scream cancer in the future . Accept it . Lebron is the internet . Mj is tv . One peaked , one just keep expanding

[SATAN]

:applause:

[3ball]

Nope . If you wanna play that game Jordan was the first basketball cancer to find success but was terrible for the game . Your shooting guard taking 40 shots in a game would get you fired 40 years ago and Jordan changed that to created the next breed of cancers ( no offense cause these are my favorite players and era ) but the 2000s is full of the one man show ball hog game mj made “ cool “ but that’s what held back the Kobe’s and iversons . They couldn’t win as a cancer . But lebron brought team back “ magic back” basketball is a team sport and people fell in love watching mj fly but lebron can do it too while passing to a teammate for a gamewinner .. Jordan would never .. just like kyrie , Harden , Westbrook the stars seen as ballhogs in this era now . Accept it mj was great but was a ball hog and cancer for that next generation as a team sport aspect . We got to see a lot of people try to shoot 40 shots tho .I bet mj iconic bald head is gonna scream cancer in the future . Accept it . Lebron is the internet . Mj is tv . One peaked , one just keep expanding

Jordan used the most possessions (usage), with the highest efficiency (ortg)

so you wanted mj using as many possessions as possible

you forget that shooting efficiency falls under the umbrella of efficiency per possessions, where MJ's was higher... Lebron is a turnover machine and has similar true shooting to mj despite far lower scoring burden