"Lebron has to be the best basketball player to ever play" - Alex Caruso

[LAmbruh]

"When I was young growing up I was a fan of the Michael highlights and never seen him in person, that was the mythical game winners and highlights. Then Lebron comes in 2003 and I get older learning about basketball and my mind for the game understands how hard stuff is. Somewhere around year 6-7 for Lebron I thought yeah this is the best dude ever in basketball to play. And then he did it for another 10 years."


Pretty much sums up childhood nostalgia perfectly.

Sure everything seems so large and mythical when your a kid getting showered in Jordan clothing and marketing.

Then you learn the game as you get old and say well...... yeah not exactly as it seemed when I was young.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QTsouFyyP0


https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlQ7LRalQqdWfao/giphy.gif

[light]

Pretty much sums up childhood nostalgia perfectly.

Sure everything seems so large and mythical when your a kid getting showered in Jordan clothing and marketing.

Then you learn the game as you get old and say well...... yeah not exactly as it seemed when I was young.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QTsouFyyP0


https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlQ7LRalQqdWfao/giphy.gif

Wow. Caruso and I must be the same person because I had a very similar experience (aside from me being older and having had watched most of MJ's career).

I grew up a hardcore MJ fan. Before LeBron I was on the internet fighting the good fight protecting MJ's legacy from Kobe's hordes. But something started to change from 2007 to 2009. LeBron made me reconsider the idea that was floating around that we would never see a player as good as Michael Jordan ever again. All of a sudden I was looking at someone who was not only as good as Michael Jordan, but damn, HE MIGHT BE EVEN BETTER! I remember thinking that in 2008.

By the time of The Decision two years later I was already convinced that LeBron was The Greatest of All Time and everything that has happened since then has only reinforced that idea.

Caruso brings up a great point though about the difficulty of understanding the game from an IQ perspective and then also the ability and instinct to take that knowledge and apply it at precisely the right moments and in the right ways. LeBron is unparalleled at that and Caruso acknowledges it.

Caruso is also acknowledging something that is rarely said about Michael Jordan - that unlike with LeBron, when you watched Michael Jordan you did not get the sense that MJ was processing the game intellectually and making data driven decisions. When you watched Michael Jordan you felt that he was doing things mostly on instinct.

[Axe]

Wow. Caruso and I must be the same person because I had a very similar experience (aside from me being older and having had watched most of MJ's career).

I grew up a hardcore MJ fan. Before LeBron I was on the internet fighting the good fight protecting MJ's legacy from Kobe's hordes. But something started to change from 2007 to 2009. LeBron made me reconsider the idea that was floating around that we would never see a player as good as Michael Jordan ever again. All of a sudden I was looking at someone who was not only as good as Michael Jordan, but damn, HE MIGHT BE EVEN BETTER! I remember thinking that in 2008.

By the time of The Decision two years later I was already convinced that LeBron was The Greatest of All Time and everything that has happened since then has only reinforced that idea.

Caruso brings up a great point though about the difficulty of understanding the game from an IQ perspective and then also the ability and instinct to take that knowledge and apply it at precisely the right moments and in the right ways. LeBron is unparalleled at that and Caruso acknowledges it.

Caruso is also acknowledging something that is rarely said about Michael Jordan - that unlike with LeBron, when you watched Michael Jordan you did not get the sense that MJ was processing the game intellectually and making data driven decisions. When you watched Michael Jordan you felt that he was doing things mostly on instinct.
Interesting. Where did you copypasta'd this from?

[Stanley Kobrick]

caruso is the definition of knowing exactly what your role is on a team and seizing the moment to perfection. unfortunetaly i expect him to get the dellavedova contract and be forgotten in a couple years. rotting somewhere in orlando or sacramento. what was the topic again?

[LAmbruh]

Wow. Caruso and I must be the same person because I had a very similar experience (aside from me being older and having had watched most of MJ's career).

I grew up a hardcore MJ fan. Before LeBron I was on the internet fighting the good fight protecting MJ's legacy from Kobe's hordes. But something started to change from 2007 to 2009. LeBron made me reconsider the idea that was floating around that we would never see a player as good as Michael Jordan ever again. All of a sudden I was looking at someone who was not only as good as Michael Jordan, but damn, HE MIGHT BE EVEN BETTER! I remember thinking that in 2008.

By the time of The Decision two years later I was already convinced that LeBron was The Greatest of All Time and everything that has happened since then has only reinforced that idea.

Caruso brings up a great point though about the difficulty of understanding the game from an IQ perspective and then also the ability and instinct to take that knowledge and apply it at precisely the right moments and in the right ways. LeBron is unparalleled at that and Caruso acknowledges it.

Caruso is also acknowledging something that is rarely said about Michael Jordan - that unlike with LeBron, when you watched Michael Jordan you did not get the sense that MJ was processing the game intellectually and making data driven decisions. When you watched Michael Jordan you felt that he was doing things mostly on instinct.

1st reply slays are the best:applause::banana:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Wow. Caruso and I must be the same person because I had a very similar experience (aside from me being older and having had watched most of MJ's career).

I grew up a hardcore MJ fan. Before LeBron I was on the internet fighting the good fight protecting MJ's legacy from Kobe's hordes. But something started to change from 2007 to 2009. LeBron made me reconsider the idea that was floating around that we would never see a player as good as Michael Jordan ever again. All of a sudden I was looking at someone who was not only as good as Michael Jordan, but damn, HE MIGHT BE EVEN BETTER! I remember thinking that in 2008.

By the time of The Decision two years later I was already convinced that LeBron was The Greatest of All Time and everything that has happened since then has only reinforced that idea.

Caruso brings up a great point though about the difficulty of understanding the game from an IQ perspective and then also the ability and instinct to take that knowledge and apply it at precisely the right moments and in the right ways. LeBron is unparalleled at that and Caruso acknowledges it.

Caruso is also acknowledging something that is rarely said about Michael Jordan - that unlike with LeBron, when you watched Michael Jordan you did not get the sense that MJ was processing the game intellectually and making data driven decisions. When you watched Michael Jordan you felt that he was doing things mostly on instinct.

Great post. Jordan was simply a great weapon to be used along with Scottie by Phil and Tex. LeBron is something more; he is Skynet.

[FireDavidKahn]

This white boi knows what's up.

[HylianNightmare]

Thats someone's whose basketball ranking i care about for sure

[SATAN]

I believe him

[Kblaze8855]

Hes born in 1994. Lebron is his childhood nostalgia pick. You don’t have nostalgia about someone you heard about you have it about who you came up a fan of.

[StrongLurk]

Hes born in 1994. Lebron is his childhood nostalgia pick. You don’t have nostalgia about someone you heard about you have it about who you came up a fan of.

Great point, I was born in 1990 and I definitely have childhood nostalgia with MJ from Space Jam-1998 Finals. Sure I was young, but I remember being obsessed and in awe of MJ (as well as basketball in general). It felt like he could do no wrong and would never lose.

If I was born in 94...then I would have literally missed all of that.

Caruso's nostalgia would definitely be more around Kobe and very young Lebron.

[8Ball]

Caruso is also acknowledging something that is rarely said about Michael Jordan - that unlike with LeBron, when you watched Michael Jordan you did not get the sense that MJ was processing the game intellectually and making data driven decisions. When you watched Michael Jordan you felt that he was doing things mostly on instinct.

LeBron's basketball IQ is top 5 all time. LeBron has higher basketball IQ than Jordan.

[red1]

Hes born in 1994. Lebron is his childhood nostalgia pick. You don’t have nostalgia about someone you heard about you have it about who you came up a fan of.

yeah lebron is the only top-5 player caruso would have seen.


he'd have missed shaq mj kareem wilt pretty much everyone else.

[And1AllDay]

2ez

Another day :hammertime:

Another win :dancin :djparty
https://i.postimg.cc/CK9WwBPy/23to6to23.jpg

[HoopsNY]

Hes born in 1994. Lebron is his childhood nostalgia pick. You don’t have nostalgia about someone you heard about you have it about who you came up a fan of.

That's the funny thing about this all. He's a kid.


Caruso is also acknowledging something that is rarely said about Michael Jordan - that unlike with LeBron, when you watched Michael Jordan you did not get the sense that MJ was processing the game intellectually and making data driven decisions. When you watched Michael Jordan you felt that he was doing things mostly on instinct.


Someone made this point on RealGM, but in favor of MJ. But you seem to take the opposite perspective, which is fine. The thing is MJ didn't allow defenses to gather, particularly in late games on in bounds plays.

He literally would catch, react, and within 5-6 seconds the ball would be in the hoop. This threw defenses off and he was able to read defenses almost instantaneously.

To LeBron's credit, you are correct, he gathers what the defense gives him, analyzes, and executes. But I'm unsure as to why that is the preferred method of play.

The triangle offense and consistent ball movement coupled with MJs ability to execute quickly in late games is, in my opinion, a better flow of basketball that has proven results.

The only way LeBron's method works is if you equip enough guys around him (i.e, shooters and elite players/scorers) in order to make his style of play work for the team.

If you prefer the latter rather than the former, then I'm curious as to what makes it so great and in fact better than system ball?

[Cyrus334]

"Has to be" is the key phrase here because he's too young to have ever seen all the other GOAT candidates in their prime and is only basing it on recency bias. I respect his opinion though.

[RRR3]

That's the funny thing about this all. He's a kid.



Someone made this point on RealGM, but in favor of MJ. But you seem to take the opposite perspective, which is fine. The thing is MJ didn't allow defenses to gather, particularly in late games on in bounds plays.

He literally would catch, react, and within 5-6 seconds the ball would be in the hoop. This threw defenses off and he was able to read defenses almost instantaneously.

To LeBron's credit, you are correct, he gathers what the defense gives him, analyzes, and executes. But I'm unsure as to why that is the preferred method of play.

The triangle offense and consistent ball movement coupled with MJs ability to execute quickly in late games is, in my opinion, a better flow of basketball that has proven results.

The only way LeBron's method works is if you equip enough guys around him (i.e, shooters and elite players/scorers) in order to make his style of play work for the team.

If you prefer the latter rather than the former, then I'm curious as to what makes it so great and in fact better than system ball?
LeBron literally just won a ring with a team that was built terribly around him :lol

[3ball]

It's crazy that pros like Caruso are amazing ball players themselves, but can't watch MJ and see that he's way better than Lebron - like Hakeem said - FAR superior

Lebron needs to hold the ball twice as long to produce less

It's obvious by watching and the stats also show this, yet people like lebron's westbrooking... I think they're simply amazed that someone so big can westbrook - and it is remarkable - but it's still a westbrook skillset

[3ball]

LeBron literally just won a ring with a team that was built terribly around him :lol

That's impossible because he played with Wade/Bosh, Kyrie/Love, and Duncan

[leBron Bieber]

That's impossible because he played with Wade/Bosh, Kyrie/Love, and Duncan

Lol just recent names of a great era but lack of mvps n no success without lbj is going to put them as second class all time greats . I told someone in 2008 that lebron is magic with Dominique Wilkins athletics learning to play like Jordan . And if he gets the perfect team ( I think 2021-2022 lakers are that team) he could catch bill Russell let alone Jordan if we talkin rangz

[3ball]

Lol just recent names of a great era but lack of mvps n no success without lbj is going to put them as second class all time greats . I told someone in 2008 that lebron is magic with Dominique Wilkins athletics learning to play like Jordan . And if he gets the perfect team ( I think 2021-2022 lakers are that team) he could catch bill Russell let alone Jordan if we talkin rangz

Wade was fmvp without lebron

and bosh/kyrie/AD had the same "pre-decision" failures that lebron had.. lebron was embarrassed as a big favorite in 09' and 10' - that's why he started colluding.... REMEMBER???

[red1]

4 finals MVPs



Bend the knee 3ball

[3ball]

4 finals MVPs



Bend the knee 3ball

4 in 17 years

<

6 in 15



And lebron's rings required either 2 star teammates or a top 3 player teammate

[red1]

4 in 17 years

<

6 in 15



And lebron's rings required either 2 star teammates or a top 3 player teammate

bend the knee my boy.



LeCountEveryVote has absolutely decimated every single one of your arguments.


your argument was that he couldnt lead a team to a championship as the best player - you discounted the two heat rings with "buh buh superteam wade and ray allen"


meanwhile he was head and shoulders the best player in the league those 4 years in miami, no one came close.


then 2016. "buh buh kyrie."



then 2020. "buh buh AD."




you lost. 4 finals MVPs means he is the 2nd best player of all-time right now. you argued he wouldn't go down as top-10.




please formally bend the knee. :)

[3ball]

Wade was fmvp without lebron

and bosh/kyrie/AD had the same "pre-decision" failures that lebron had.. lebron was embarrassed as a big favorite in 09' and 10' - that's why he started colluding.... REMEMBER???

crickets

[leBron Bieber]

Wade was fmvp without lebron

and bosh/kyrie/AD had the same "pre-decision" failures that lebron had.. lebron was embarrassed as a big favorite in 09' and 10' - that's why he started colluding.... REMEMBER???

Look how young he was and embarrassing for lebron is losing to a dynasty franchise while pulling the best one man show in decades. kyrie and love had a few seasons now to prove they can still ball and they showed us exactly what we know . Love can score n rebound but defense sucks and kyrie is great but too selfish . AD is Lebrons first gift and it wasn’t through a free agency tactic or anything Ingram is clearly better than kuz now and let’s not even forget how much everyone swore that was the nba future dynasty core being traded and still lebron and ad took the title in year 1 in LA

[leBron Bieber]

Wade was fmvp without lebron

and bosh/kyrie/AD had the same "pre-decision" failures that lebron had.. lebron was embarrassed as a big favorite in 09' and 10' - that's why he started colluding.... REMEMBER???
And iggy got a fmvp . That award is tainted at this point and I thought that after billups honesty

[8Ball]

High basketball IQ player knows GOAT basketball IQ. :cheers:

Caruso was a Jordan stan until he started understanding the game. Why are we not surprised?

[8Ball]

And iggy got a fmvp . That award is tainted at this point and I thought that after billups honesty

Yes the award is tainted.

LeBron deserved FMVP in 2015.

[red1]

crickets

Hahaha you know you lost when you have to bring up '09 and '10 - that actually makes your case for mj look worse because jordan never did a thing with scrubs like delonte and varejao


Ahahaha you said mo williams is a more talented basketball player than pippen and tried to argue that as a fact - are you retarded? :roll:





Just say it right now. :)


"I 3ball, am a raging hater"

[red1]

LeAmericanPatriot



aka LeTriggerer



https://lakersdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/maxresdefault-60.jpg

[Brasileiro]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmBDy13XUAApRtE?format=jpg&name=900x900

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1324132835050082304?s=21

LeBron won in 29 of the 50 states.

Can someone tell me how this research was made? They said is based on “Geotagged Twitter Data” but what the **** is that?

[light]

Caruso said he realized LeBron was the GOAT around 2009-10.

Imagine thinking LeBron James is the greatest ever and then after that he goes to 8 consecutive finals and wins 4 titles and 4 Finals MVPs. In other words, the 8 consecutive finals and 4 titles have only been icing.

That happened for a lot of people which is one reason why support for LeBron is so strong.

[3ball]

Caruso said he realized LeBron was the GOAT around 2009-10.

Imagine thinking LeBron James is the greatest ever and then after that he goes to 8 consecutive finals and wins 4 titles and 4 Finals MVPs. In other words, the 8 consecutive finals and 4 titles have only been icing.

That happened for a lot of people which is one reason why support for LeBron is so strong.

Lebron isn't great because he's a destroyer of the best brand of basketball - organic chemistry - he replaced it with talent-based winning, aka best recruiter wins, no chemistry basketball

So he isn't great and is infact a bad person.. a fraud in every way, starting with his manufactured basketball resume - he had 1 Finals run in a weak conference like Iverson, Dwight or Kidd) until the"decision"

otherwise, he was completely embarrassed in 08', 09' and 10' - that's why he started colluding - it was to stop getting embarrassed..

Then Dirk gave lebron karma by doing what lebron couldn't - win with a 1-star, organic team... so stop watching the lies on ESPN..

Btw, lebron's inability to win organically is a skill deficit.. his ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby requiring ready-made stars to win (team-hopping)

[light]

Lebron isn't great because he's a destroyer of the best brand of basketball - organic chemistry - he replaced it with talent-based winning, aka best recruiter wins, no chemistry basketball

So he isn't great and is infact a bad person.. a fraud in every way, starting with his manufactured basketball resume - he had 1 Finals run in a weak conference like Iverson, Dwight or Kidd) until the"decision"

otherwise, he was completely embarrassed in 08', 09' and 10' - that's why he started colluding - it was to stop getting embarrassed..

Then Dirk gave lebron karma by doing what lebron couldn't - win with a 1-star, organic team... so stop watching the lies on ESPN..

Btw, lebron's inability to win organically is a skill deficit.. his ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby requiring ready-made stars to win (team-hopping)

"So he isn't great and is infact a bad person.."

https://s8.gifyu.com/images/tkcb.png

[8Ball]

Caruso said he realized LeBron was the GOAT around 2009-10.

Imagine thinking LeBron James is the greatest ever and then after that he goes to 8 consecutive finals and wins 4 titles and 4 Finals MVPs. In other words, the 8 consecutive finals and 4 titles have only been icing.

That happened for a lot of people which is one reason why support for LeBron is so strong.

Yes, Caruso has high basketball IQ.

Players with high BBIQ notice one another immediately.

He realized all the high lights don't amount to what LeBron actually does on the court.

[light]

Yes, Caruso has high basketball IQ.

Players with high BBIQ notice one another immediately.

He realized all the high lights don't amount to what LeBron actually does on the court.

I was going to say the same thing. It's very high IQ of Caruso to have known that by 2010. Other people who were saying that at the time were also high IQ guys in Oscar Robertson and Larry Bird.

[3ball]

"So he isn't great and is infact a bad person.."

https://s8.gifyu.com/images/tkcb.png

a fraud in every way, starting with his manufactured basketball resume - he had 1 Finals run in a weak conference similar to Iverson, Dwight or Kidd.... until the"decision"

otherwise, he was completely embarrassed in 08', 09' and 10' - that's why he started colluding - it was to stop getting embarrassed..

And lebron's inability to win organically is a skill deficit.. his ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby requiring ready-made stars to win (team-hopping)

Then Dirk gave lebron karma by doing what lebron couldn't - win with a 1-star, organic team... so stop watching the lies on ESPN..

[light]

a fraud in every way, starting with his manufactured basketball resume - he had 1 Finals run in a weak conference similar to Iverson, Dwight or Kidd.... until the"decision"

otherwise, he was completely embarrassed in 08', 09' and 10' - that's why he started colluding - it was to stop getting embarrassed..

And lebron's inability to win organically is a skill deficit.. his ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby requiring ready-made stars to win (team-hopping)

Then Dirk gave lebron karma by doing what lebron couldn't - win with a 1-star, organic team... so stop watching the lies on ESPN..

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJr1wtzWoAAi4GL.jpg

[3ball]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJr1wtzWoAAi4GL.jpg

What was non-factual about my very brief post

[r0drig0lac]

caruso is the definition of knowing exactly what your role is on a team and seizing the moment to perfection. unfortunetaly i expect him to get the dellavedova contract and be forgotten in a couple years. rotting somewhere in orlando or sacramento. what was the topic again?

:oldlol:

[HylianNightmare]

Great point, I was born in 1990 and I definitely have childhood nostalgia with MJ from Space Jam-1998 Finals. Sure I was young, but I remember being obsessed and in awe of MJ (as well as basketball in general). It felt like he could do no wrong and would never lose.

If I was born in 94...then I would have literally missed all of that.

Caruso's nostalgia would definitely be more around Kobe and very young Lebron.
Same. Born in 90 and even growing up in Orlando with shaq penny hype we all knew MJ the man

[8Ball]

I was going to say the same thing. It's very high IQ of Caruso to have known that by 2010. Other people who were saying that at the time were also high IQ guys in Oscar Robertson and Larry Bird.

I was 100% convinced LeBron was the GOAT just from seeing 2009.

I had not seen that before from any one in history.

11 years later I am proven right.

[And1AllDay]

Lebron isn't great because he's a destroyer of the best brand of basketball - organic chemistry - he replaced it with talent-based winning, aka best recruiter wins, no chemistry basketball

So he isn't great and is infact a bad person.. a fraud in every way, starting with his manufactured basketball resume - he had 1 Finals run in a weak conference like Iverson, Dwight or Kidd) until the"decision"

otherwise, he was completely embarrassed in 08', 09' and 10' - that's why he started colluding - it was to stop getting embarrassed..

Then Dirk gave lebron karma by doing what lebron couldn't - win with a 1-star, organic team... so stop watching the lies on ESPN..

Btw, lebron's inability to win organically is a skill deficit.. his ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby requiring ready-made stars to win (team-hopping)

LeBron's lead in the G.O.A.T. race extends even further now:

Jordan only had 3 playoff PER runs over 30 in entire career (minimum 2nd round)

LeBron has 7 playoff PER runs over 30 in entire career.

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/separator-light1378072ed9159071.gif

2018 LeBron PER > any of Jordan's playoff PER.

32.2 > Any playoff PER Jordan.

2009 playoffs 37.4 PER > Anything Jordan could have ever done statistically.


LeBron's peak > Jordan's peak.
LeBron's longevity > Jordan's longevity.

[8Ball]

LeBron's lead in the G.O.A.T. race extends even further now:

Jordan only had 3 playoff PER runs over 30 in entire career (minimum 2nd round)

LeBron has 7 playoff PER runs over 30 in entire career.

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/separator-light1378072ed9159071.gif

2018 LeBron PER > any of Jordan's playoff PER.

32.2 > Any playoff PER Jordan.

2009 playoffs 37.4 PER > Anything Jordan could have ever done statistically.


LeBron's peak > Jordan's peak.
LeBron's longevity > Jordan's longevity.

:cheers: Spread the wisdom on this 3ball spambot.

[Axe]

Caruso said he realized LeBron was the GOAT around 2009-10.

Imagine thinking LeBron James is the greatest ever and then after that he goes to 8 consecutive finals and wins 4 titles and 4 Finals MVPs. In other words, the 8 consecutive finals and 4 titles have only been icing.

That happened for a lot of people which is one reason why support for LeBron is so strong.
While i agree that he's the goat player of the last decade, you can't also overlook that he lost b2b finals as well. His longevity is amazing but he still had different teams to help him build that.

[light]

While i agree that he's the goat player of the last decade, you can't also overlook that he lost b2b finals as well. His longevity is amazing but he still had different teams to help him build that.

No, you can overlook that. All finals losses aren't equal. Each has its own story. The public understands all of this and they know the story of each of LeBron's finals trips.

So...

They excuse his loss in 2007 because he was a one man team against an all-time great team.

In a case like this, hyperbole or not, the public has come to believe that no one else in history could've taken that team to the finals that year.

They excuse his losses when it was the first year on a new team (2011 and 2015).

This actually applies to every player. We give them a break in year 1.

What LeBron did in the 2015 Finals is actually considered to be a plus for his legacy even in a loss.

They excuse his loss in 2014 because Wade (and Bosh) went AWOL.

Wade admitted that he checked out - he and the Heat (Bosh) were burnt out after 4 consecutive finals trips.

The public is aware of what the 73-9 Warriors did in order to beat LeBron in 2017.

The public demonized Kevin Durant for joining the Warriors, they do not criticize LeBron for losing to them.

LeBron's 2018 run is considered to be one of his greatest achievements even though he lost in the finals.

The Cavs were written off after Kyrie Irving left. They were further written off after all of their new additions failed to gel and were traded. The expectation was that the Cavs were finally going to lose to the Raptors in the 2nd round. Toronto was the heavy favorite. Toronto got swept.

2018 is similar to 2007 in that the public believes that was something only LeBron could've done.

It's important to keep in mind that after all of these hiccups LeBron always came back to reclaim the title, and sometimes under unbelievable circumstances. That's a major factor.

So the practical reality is that, for the public, the finals losses really do not reflect poorly on LeBron at all.

[kawhileonard2]

Dude lost to Dwight Howard with HCA and won 2 bronze medals for America in basketball. Can't be that good.

[HoopsNY]

No, you can overlook that. All finals losses aren't equal. Each has its own story. The public understands all of this and they know the story of each of LeBron's finals trips.

So...

They excuse his loss in 2007 because he was a one man team against an all-time great team.

In a case like this, hyperbole or not, the public has come to believe that no one else in history could've taken that team to the finals that year.

Magically no one (not MJ, Wilt, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, etc), could take the 2007 team to the finals facing teams like the Nets and Wizards. :lol

Do you give this same excuse for MJ facing teams like the '86 Celtics? Of course not. :lol


They excuse his losses when it was the first year on a new team (2011 and 2015).
[INDENT][I]This actually applies to every player. We give them a break in year 1.

Really? So they get magically gentlemen swept the first three rounds off of a lack of chemistry, then went up 1-0 against Dallas, and conveniently lost the next 4/5 games because of a lack of chemistry? Do you give the same excuse for MJ playing with fresh talent in Pippen and Grant? With a new addition in Cartwright? Of course not:lol

[HoopsNY]

They excuse his loss in 2014 because Wade (and Bosh) went AWOL.

Wade admitted that he checked out - he and the Heat (Bosh) were burnt out after 4 consecutive finals trips.

Does MJ get the same excuse playing with an injured/tired Pippen in 1993, having played in the Olympic games and going for a 3rd straight title? Or how about the 1996 series and 1998 series where Pippen was injured and they also had a basket case in Rodman and injured Ron Harper? Of course not. :lol


The public is aware of what the 73-9 Warriors did in order to beat LeBron in 2017.

The public demonized Kevin Durant for joining the Warriors, they do not criticize LeBron for losing to them.


Yet he got gentlemen swept. Yet the very next season with the same team, Harden and the Rockets took the Warriors to 7 games, going up 3-2 and losing Chris Paul for the final two games. But yea, we'll excuse it despite getting nearly 30 PPG from his sidekick. :lol


LeBron's 2018 run is considered to be one of his greatest achievements even though he lost in the finals.
[INDENT][I]The Cavs were written off after Kyrie Irving left. They were further written off after all of their new additions failed to gel and were traded. The expectation was that the Cavs were finally going to lose to the Raptors in the 2nd round. Toronto was the heavy favorite. Toronto got swept.

LeBron is the player-leader, player-coach, and player-GM. No criticisms for gutting the team mid-season. Not to mention, the series went 7 games and the Celtics didn't have Kyrie Irving. But all other factors are suddenly equal?

Do you give MJ the same benefit of the doubt for Pippen's migraine game? Of course not. :lol


It's important to keep in mind that after all of these hiccups LeBron always came back to reclaim the title, and sometimes under unbelievable circumstances. That's a major factor.


Fair point, but do you give the same benefit of the doubt to the greatest player of all-time that you conveniently hate and piss on in almost every thread? Of course not. :lol


So the practical reality is that, for the public, the finals losses really do not reflect poorly on LeBron at all.

Lose miserably in 2007 putting up the worst finals performance of his career.

Lose in 2009 with HCA where in the elimination game 6 he goes 1-4 in the 4th quarter, with a team that were the favorites.

Lose in embarrassing fashion in 2011.

Lose in 2014 and have Kawhi outplay you combining both ends of the floor, his on the ball defense on LeBron, all in games 3-4-5.

Lose in 2017 by way of gentlemen sweeping despite an inferior player like James Harden taking the same team to 7 games the very next season.

Miss the playoffs in 2019 after failing to "mold" young players he said said would mold to Magic Johnson, even after returning from injury with your sidekick putting up 25 PPG.

[Axe]

Magically no one (not MJ, Wilt, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, etc), could take the 2007 team to the finals facing teams like the Nets and Wizards. :lol

Do you give this same excuse for MJ facing teams like the '86 Celtics? Of course not. :lol



Really? So they get magically gentlemen swept the first three rounds off of a lack of chemistry, then went up 1-0 against Dallas, and conveniently lost the next 4/5 games because of a lack of chemistry? Do you give the same excuse for MJ playing with fresh talent in Pippen and Grant? With a new addition in Cartwright? Of course not:lol

Does MJ get the same excuse playing with an injured/tired Pippen in 1993, having played in the Olympic games and going for a 3rd straight title? Or how about the 1996 series and 1998 series where Pippen was injured and they also had a basket case in Rodman and injured Ron Harper? Of course not. :lol



Yet he got gentlemen swept. Yet the very next season with the same team, Harden and the Rockets took the Warriors to 7 games, going up 3-2 and losing Chris Paul for the final two games. But yea, we'll excuse it despite getting nearly 30 PPG from his sidekick.



LeBron is the player-leader, player-coach, and player-GM. No criticisms for gutting the team mid-season. Not to mention, the series went 7 games and the Celtics didn't have Kyrie Irving. But all other factors are suddenly equal?

Do you give MJ the same benefit of the doubt for Pippen's migraine game? Of course not.



Fair point, but do you give the same benefit of the doubt to the greatest player of all-time that you conveniently hate and piss on in almost every thread? Of course not.



Lose miserably in 2007 putting up the worst finals performance of his career.

Lose in embarrassing fashion in 2011.

Lose in 2014 and have Kawhi outplay you combining both ends of the floor, his on the ball defense on LeBron, all in games 3-4-5.

Lose in 2017 by way of gentlemen sweeping despite an inferior player like James Harden taking the same team to 7 games the very next season.

Miss the playoffs in 2019 after failing to "mold" young players he said said would mold to Magic Johnson, even after returning from injury with your sidekick putting up 25 PPG.
:applause: