Barkley vs Dirk

[dankok8]

Who would you take in their primes? Obviously Dirk had the better career because of the ring but at their best who was the better player? Both flawed players but offensive juggernauts.

[Dbrog]

Definitely peak Dirk was better than peak Barkley. Peak Dirk basically single handedly beat one of the most stacked teams ever created. Not to mention he has a shot that is impossible to block, and actually usually played great against amazing competition. It's funny RealGM has some dumb shit like KG in their top10 and Dirk had fantastic stats against him, usually better, whenever they played each other in the playoffs. That said, Barkley was an absolute monster on the offensive end and certainly brought an identity to a team Dirk could never bring. It's no knock against Barkley but I'm taking Dirk, especially in today's game

[Round Mound]

Dirk's game is better in this type of era where there is less contact allowed and everyone is shooting 3s.

If there was no 3-point line like the old days then Barkley was better.

Mid Range, Long Range and FT Shooting Dirk > Barkley

Post Game Near Painted Area and Spins and Moves Barkley > Dirk

Attacking the Basket Barkley > Dirk

Ballhandling Going Coast to Coast Barkley > Dirk

Rebounding Barkley > Dirk

Passing Barkley > Dirk

Defense Barkley = Dirk. Both where not elite defenders.

[Gohan]

Dirk's game is better in this type of era where there is less contact allowed and everyone is shooting 3s.

If there was no 3-point line like the old days then Barkley was better.

Mid Range, Long Range and FT Shooting Dirk > Barkley

Post Game Near Painted Area and Spins and Moves Barkley > Dirk

Attacking the Basket Barkley > Dirk

Ballhandling Going Coast to Coast Barkley > Dirk

Rebounding Barkley > Dirk

Passing Barkley > Dirk

Defense Barkley = Dirk. Both where not elite defenders.

You’d have to be some kind of fool to take Barkley>> dirk

Even if it’s just the fact that Barkley is undersized

[Round Mound]

You’d have to be some kind of fool to take Barkley>> dirk

Even if it’s just the fact that Barkley is undersized

No kid i watched Barkley in is peak who was a top 2 and 3 player from 89 to 95. He was more dominant than Dirk. Barkley was one of the most nastinesst players in an era of nastiness where contact and real fouls where allowed.

Dirk was a greater shooter but he wasn't a better scorer, rebounder, passer, driver, ballhandler, coast to coast player, in paint post up move player etc

[Axe]

You’d have to be some kind of fool to take Barkley>> dirk

Even if it’s just the fact that Barkley is undersized
Lol dirk had better longevity but for the whole period of their careers, he never had more rebounds than barkley.

[dankok8]

This is such a phenomenal comparison to me because they are two offensive juggernauts who did their damage in completely different ways. Barkley dominated in the paint and Dirk was dominating with jumpers. I'm honestly not sure who was the better player.

[Reggie43]

Barkley no question regardless of era.

[Doranku]

Dirk didn't need the 3 point line to dominate. He took out peak Duncan & Manu in '06 while only making 1 three pointer the entire series, which went 7 games. Kinda crazy.

[Gohan]

No kid i watched Barkley in is peak who was a top 2 and 3 player from 89 to 95. He was more dominant than Dirk. Barkley was one of the most nastinesst players in an era of nastiness where contact and real fouls where allowed.

Dirk was a greater shooter but he wasn't a better scorer, rebounder, passer, driver, ballhandler, coast to coast player, in paint post up move player etc

Tbh, I think Barkley is a better player than dirk. It’s just I think Barkley is just undersized. It’s ok at the guard position but not really at the forward

[AussieSteve]

So if Barkley's weakness vs Dirk is that he's undersized, Dirk must have grabbed more boards and blocked more shots right?

[Gohan]

So if Barkley's weakness vs Dirk is that he's undersized, Dirk must have grabbed more boards and blocked more shots right?

Wasn’t Reggie evans undersized too?

[AussieSteve]

All I'll say is... watch a few Philly games c.1990-91 and the answer should be manifestly obvious to you.

[leBron Bieber]

Saw this debate on RealGM and was wondering. Who would take in their primes? Obviously Dirk had the better career because of the ring but at their best who was the better player? Both flawed players but offensive juggernauts.

Dirk and it’s not close. Beat Kobe and lebron in the same year . And I feel dirk is a better defender off height alone . And of course like Jordan lebron Iverson curry Kobe he is a game changer . A stretch big was a loser before him

[┌∩┐(﹒︠益﹒︡)┌∩┐]

Dirk and it’s not close. Beat Kobe and lebron in the same year . And I feel dirk is a better defender off height alone . And of course like Jordan lebron Iverson curry Kobe he is a game changer . A stretch big was a loser before him

I don't agreeing with this at all biebs. Barkley have one of the greatest peaks ever, dirk not even at the conversation.

[Phoenix]

For most of the NBA's 75 years the answer would be Barkley. In most facets of the game he's clearly better. Over the last decade ' who would you take' that answer would shift to Dirk mostly because of his shooting. That skill is at a premium today especially as a big and I think most GMs would probably go with Dirk for that reason.

Both great players though, they just did it in different ways. Peak for peak I think Barkley is better, because he has one of the best peaks ever TBH, especially offensively in terms of volume/efficiency. And thats why he tends to be rated top 20 despite the lack of chips and only one MVP. He was just an obvious 'this guy is simply fukking great at playing basketball' and you don't need to apply the mental gymnastics we do with alot of guys trying to rank them because of reasons x,y and z. The guy between 87 and 93 averaged 26ppg on 15 shots, only 2 3point attempts. If you were actually watching him during that time it was pretty clear he was the elite of the elite. Watch some Chicago-Philly games around 91. Some nights Charles was the best player on the floor, or at least looked like he was making the biggest imprint on the game....and this is with peak MJ sharing the court. You were either there to see it or you weren't.

[guy]

I'd take Barkley. Overall just a better player IMO and he'd have a ring too if in his prime he got to benefit from the biggest choke in NBA history.

[StrongLurk]

I'm taking Dirk slightly.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'd take Barkley. Overall just a better player IMO and he'd have a ring too if in his prime he got to benefit from the biggest choke in NBA history.

Oh shit, and Barkley would have posted the same clutch stats as Dirk, when he never did so?

[guy]

Oh shit, and Barkley would have posted the same clutch stats as Dirk, when he never did so?

There’s multiple ways to win. Situations don’t need to be exactly alike.

Barkley’s 93 Finals was better overall then Dirk’s 11 Finals. Dirk wasn’t even that great overall. He was great in the clutch but if he was better overall those great clutch stats probably wouldn’t have been needed. Sure, Barkley lost and Dirk won but that had a lot, if not everything, to do with going up against the arguable GOAT having a GOAT performance instead of facing someone who was literally having arguably the biggest superstar meltdown in NBA history.

People really trying to argue that if the situations were reversed that the results would be any different? :oldlol:

Dirk’s obviously great and he deservingly shed the choker label he had up until that point, but the ring vs no ring argument just doesn’t work here.

[ArbitraryWater]

There’s multiple ways to win. Situations don’t need to be exactly alike.

Barkley’s 93 Finals was better overall then Dirk’s 11 Finals. Dirk wasn’t even that great overall. He was great in the clutch but if he was better overall those great clutch stats probably wouldn’t have been needed. Sure, Barkley lost and Dirk won but that had a lot, if not everything, to do with going up against the arguable GOAT having a GOAT performance instead of facing someone who was literally having arguably the biggest superstar meltdown in NBA history.

People really trying to argue that if the situations were reversed that the results would be any different? :oldlol:

Dirk’s obviously great and he deservingly shed the choker label he had up until that point, but the ring vs no ring argument just doesn’t work here.

Thats exactly it.

Barkley has a few runs matching Dirk's WCSF and WCF production, but the matter and timeliness of buckets was key in those..

Dirk turned several, numerous 4th quarters... and while Chuck would have logically scored more through 3, its hard to just say the outcome would have been the same...

the clutch buckets count for more. they're of higher difficulty to attain.

[Phoenix]

Players have won playing worse than Barkley played in the 93 finals (27/13/6 48%). Hell, MJ in 96 played worse than that ( over 6 games) and won.

[guy]

Thats exactly it.

Barkley has a few runs matching Dirk's WCSF and WCF production, but the matter and timeliness of buckets was key in those..

Dirk turned several, numerous 4th quarters... and while Chuck would have logically scored more through 3, its hard to just say the outcome would have been the same...

the clutch buckets count for more. they're of higher difficulty to attain.

Sure, no way of ever knowing for sure, but like I said, Barkley's lone finals performance is better then any of Dirk's, including the one he won. And again, lets not act like Dirk didn't benefit from arguably the greatest superstar meltdown in history, while Barkley was going up against a situation that was pretty much the polar opposite.

[┌∩┐(﹒︠益﹒︡)┌∩┐]

Anyone who's taking dirk is TROLLING! Sorry not sorry!

[tpols]

Definitely peak Dirk was better than peak Barkley. Peak Dirk basically single handedly beat one of the most stacked teams ever created. Not to mention he has a shot that is impossible to block, and actually usually played great against amazing competition. It's funny RealGM has some dumb shit like KG in their top10 and Dirk had fantastic stats against him, usually better, whenever they played each other in the playoffs. That said, Barkley was an absolute monster on the offensive end and certainly brought an identity to a team Dirk could never bring. It's no knock against Barkley but I'm taking Dirk, especially in today's game

H2H it's very possible Barkley would bully the hell out of him. Barkley is one of the best box out guys ever and could definitely overpower Dirk. He was also hyper efficient.

[tpols]

Sure, no way of ever knowing for sure, but like I said, Barkley's lone finals performance is better then any of Dirk's, including the one he won. And again, lets not act like Dirk didn't benefit from arguably the greatest superstar meltdown in history, while Barkley was going up against a situation that was pretty much the polar opposite.

That's a great point. The Suns would've swept the bulls or won in 5 if MJ scored on 18 PPG.

In fact, he averaged 41 against Pheonix and the series was still close... LOL.

[Round Mound]

Let´s also remember that Barkley played with an elbow injury game 2 onwards...so he possibly would have scored and shot better from the field for the rest of the series. Lets remember that he was guarded and doubled by 2 Top 5 Defenders at their positions in Pippen and Grant.

[light]

Who would you take in their primes? Obviously Dirk had the better career because of the ring but at their best who was the better player? Both flawed players but offensive juggernauts.

This might come down to the age of the poster. Those that watched peak Barkley in the 80s and early 90s are probably going to choose Charles.

Dirk was great, but from 1987 to 1991 Sir Charles was a one man wrecking crew who was often compared favorably to Michael Jordan.

Imo, peak Chuck was on a little bit of a different level.

https://s8.gifyu.com/images/Jordan-vs-Bark-1990s.png https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Heat-All-Opp-1990-Chuck.png

[Round Mound]

This might come down to the age of the poster. Those that watched peak Barkley in the 80s and early 90s are probably going to choose Charles.

Dirk was great, but from 1987 to 1991 Sir Charles was a one man wrecking crew who was often compared favorably to Michael Jordan.

Imo, peak Chuck was on a little bit of a different level.

https://s8.gifyu.com/images/Jordan-vs-Bark-1990s.png https://s2.gifyu.com/images/Heat-All-Opp-1990-Chuck.png

Agree!

This is the slim and healthy version of Charles...for those who never saw that...take a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNm9AOVHKOg

[dankok8]

This is a fantastic video of Barkley destroying defenders of all sizes and shapes in the post... from DJ to Shaq!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2uD8l2Ra2E

He wasn't very tall only about 6'5'' but he knew how to use his wide body to create space and was so so quick. Smaller players got completely overpowered and taller players didn't have the speed to deal with him. He was really a total mismatch. Even all time great defenders could do little to stop him.

[Round Mound]

This is a fantastic video of Barkley destroying defenders of all sizes and shapes in the post... from DJ to Shaq!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2uD8l2Ra2E

He wasn't very tall only about 6'5'' but he knew how to use his wide body to create space and was so so quick. Smaller players got completely overpowered and taller players didn't have the speed to deal with him. He was really a total mismatch. Even all time great defenders could do little to stop him.

:bowdown: Man I Miss The Post Game of those eras...

[goozeman]

Barkley's playoff runs with the Suns are underrated. Basically, from 93 to 95 he played in the de facto finals against a dynasty GOAT team Bulls (93 Bulls was the best team ever in my opinion) and two-pete Hakeem Rockets. Suns played 20 games (one 6/Bulls and two 7 game series/Rockets) over three series and the net difference in scoring was Suns just -37 with an average score of 105 to 107. Both Jordan and Hakeem are both top 10 all-time obviously and both were at the height of their powers whem Barkley faced them, but the difference was really razor thin in all three series. Paxson misses a buzzer beater and we get game 7 in Phoenix for the championship and Suns have a good chance imho. Suns also had a lot of key injuries every year it seemed heading into their biggest matchups (losing CC before the finals, losing Danny Manning for the season on team that juggernaut offensively, Barkley elbow injury, etc.). Barkley kind had some rotten luck playing for the Sixers all those years in an utterly tacked Eastern Conference and then when getting to a championship contender having to face off against really the two guys that could negate Barkley's strengths. Jordan was the only player in the league that could take over the game offensively and impose his will better than Barkley, and Hakeem was really the only defender that could give Barkley any real trouble from the five. All in all, Barkley just had some rotten luck and you need a little luck to win I don't care what anybody says.

[tpols]

Barkley was simply awesome. I love watching his highlights and fight. Today's crop is a joke by comparison. I like Dirk a lot too... but he would get man handled. He wouldn't do what he did because teams would hurt him. It's like a boxing match where a guy takes 100 body shots. You get tired... lose your form.. and just an inch off the shooting motion is a miss.