An argument for Bill Russell over Wilt peakwise

[Manny98]

I found this video interesting comparing Wilt vs Russell.


https://youtu.be/kCKSvjBnCRQ

Takeaways

Bill Russell had GOAT on/off impact, Celtics were way worse without him

Wilt was a massive black hole on offense and his numbers are deceving

[warriorfan]

Switch their teams and coaches

[Stanley Kobrick]

I found this video interesting comparing Wilt vs Russell.


https://youtu.be/kCKSvjBnCRQ

Takeaways

Bill Russell had GOAT on/off impact, Celtics were way worse without him

Wilt was a massive black hole on offense and his numbers are deceving
well said arguments, high iq video

[Axe]

Check their h2h record

[leBron Bieber]

I found this video interesting comparing Wilt vs Russell.


https://youtu.be/kCKSvjBnCRQ

Takeaways

Bill Russell had GOAT on/off impact, Celtics were way worse without him

Wilt was a massive black hole on offense and his numbers are deceving

I agree with bill getting his respect but wilt might be the most athletic human of all time . He did everything on the court that existed at the time . We force him to compete with the future .

[dankok8]

Russell had way higher defensive impact except for two years in 1967 and 1968. Celtics went from the best defense in the league to the worst in games that he missed. Russell's defensive impact dwarfs any other player in league history. Of course that's the product of the era but he was so far ahead compared to other great defensive centers like Wilt and Thurmond that you can't brush it aside.

And then there's the hotly debated intangibles... I don't want to argue this for a millionth time but Russell always played to win and knew how to get the most out of his teammates and always stepped up in big moments. Wilt did so sporadically. And we can talk about team disparity but Wilt lost a bunch of times to Russell with equal or better talent as well.

[leBron Bieber]

Russell had way higher defensive impact except for two years in 1967 and 1968. Celtics went from the best defense in the league to the worst in games that he missed. Russell's defensive impact dwarfs any other player in league history. Of course that's the product of the era but he was so far ahead compared to other great defensive centers like Wilt and Thurmond that you can't brush it aside.

And then there's the hotly debated intangibles... I don't want to argue this for a millionth time but Russell always played to win and knew how to get the most out of his teammates and always stepped up in big moments. Wilt did so sporadically. And we can talk about team disparity but Wilt lost a bunch of times to Russell with equal or better talent as well.

So you honestly think if wilt was on the Celtics he wouldn’t have won ? You forgot who else was there ?

[Axe]

Remember when celtic-legend don nelson said this. However, that's not to say wilt has never been great at all.


There are two types of superstars. One makes himself look good at the expense of the other guys on the floor. But there's another type who makes the players around him look better than they are, and that's the type Russell was.

[SouBeachTalents]

So you honestly think if wilt was on the Celtics he wouldn’t have won ? You forgot who else was there ?
My honest opinion; I don't think Wilt wins 11. He didn't have the intangibles, leadership, selflessness & competitive drive that Russell did. I'm sure Wilt wins several titles with them based on how talented they were, but so many of those titles came down to razor thin margins where Wilt maybe doesn't come through or inspire his teammates to the extent that Russell did.

But the Wilt on the Celtics question has been done to death. The scenario I'd love to see would be Russell on Wilt's teams from '67-'73, when Wilt took on a more Russell like approach. Do his teams win more than 2 titles in that timespan?

[dankok8]

So you honestly think if wilt was on the Celtics he wouldn’t have won ? You forgot who else was there ?

Of course he would have won but he wouldn't have won 11... Wilt didn't puke before games. He wasn't the obsessive competitor that Russell was.

I can also say the opposite too. You really think Russell wouldn't win more than 2 titles on Wilt's teams? Sixers in 1967 and 1968 were stacked as were the 1969, 1970, 1972 and 1973 Lakers. Wilt underperformed or got injured in a lot of those series he lost late in his career too.

[Hakkim90cc]

Didn't Wilt lead the league in assists at one point? How is that a blackhole?

His philly ring might be goat ring


21/29/9

Gaddam

[AirBonner]

Didn't Wilt lead the league in assists at one point? How is that a blackhole?

His philly ring might be goat ring


21/29/9

Gaddam
Because he demanded the ball for stats

[AirBonner]

Give Russell 40ppg Jerry West and he still 8-peats

[Hakkim90cc]

Because he demanded the ball for stats

Wilt didn't have cousy and havlo doe

[AirBonner]

Wilt didn't have cousy and havlo doe

And none of those “HOFers” won or made the playoffs after Russell retired

[Axe]

And none of those “HOFers” won or made the playoffs after Russell retired
So you're basically saying that havlicek never won anything post-1969?

[Dbrog]

I do like Thinking Basketball and watch his videos whenever they come out because they are an interesting take and pretty well-thought out in terms of advanced stats. I also really resonate with what he says about most of us looking at stats or seeing what someone could do offensively and underrating someone defensively (think Paul Pierce vs Pippen for instance). Even if random Player A has, say, a statline of 35/8/5 but Player B has 20/10/5, it's possible Player B still has much more impact on the final game score with "intangible" things like forcing the ball out of certain players hands or playing great team defense and affecting multiple shots and schemes.

However, I do think the dude in the video leaves out how great of a defender Wilt was and minimizes how bad his team was vs Russell's pre-1966. He admits it's a bit of oversimplification of just looking at WOWY stat though. He does also admit he comes from a standpoint of "how easily can this player scale with different teams" which obviously would favor Russell since he was so dynamic and was put in a position early to be able to work within a system rather than carry everyone.

[Hakkim90cc]

And none of those “HOFers” won or made the playoffs after Russell retired

False

Havlo won a finals mvp in 1974 waaaay after russell retired. Against kareem abdul jabbar fcol.

[Hakkim90cc]

So you're basically saying that havlicek never won anything post-1969?

Got em coach:lol

[Axe]

Got em coach:lol
Hey I'm not that racist lol

[LukeWalton]

both are goats

Bill has more rings
Wilt had more women

both are happy

[Axe]

False

Havlo won a finals mvp in 1974 waaaay after russell retired. Against kareem abdul jabbar fcol.
I thought he was a Cs fan. He should know better than this.

[Hakkim90cc]

I mean just looking at their interviews they did together you can see russell looked up to this nicca...

It aint even close, coach

[AirBonner]

I mean just looking at their interviews they did together you can see russell looked up to this nicca...

It aint even close, coach
8 peated on his dome

[Hakkim90cc]

I thought he was a Cs fan

Nuff said

[3ball]

Because he demanded the ball for stats

Bron-ball

Btw, didn't Wilt win a championship the year he led the league in assists?

[dankok8]

https://i.postimg.cc/NMJ7NLhb/Russell-s-Defensive-Impact.png

https://i.postimg.cc/MHn0gxqw/Wilt-vs-Russell-Defense-2.png

[Axe]

Funny how bill russell didn't have to outplay wilt himself just to have a winning record over him. He may be more traditional over his rival's rather flashy style but I like how he took his role as a player general, even if wilt is generally regarded as a better individual player due to his statistics.

[dankok8]

Guys like Bill Russell, Bill Walton, and Tim Duncan were way too successful to simply call it an accident. Maybe a 20/15/5 center playing amazing defense is the best kind of big man to win championships? Bill Russell is always looked at having stacked teams but he wasn't the favorite from 1966 to 1969 and still won three out of four.

[Horatio33]

False

Havlo won a finals mvp in 1974 waaaay after russell retired. Against kareem abdul jabbar fcol.

Who the **** calls Havlicek "Halvlo?"

[1987_Lakers]

Who the **** calls Havlicek "Halvlo?"

:oldlol:

[Dagoods]

Russell + Wilt + Kareem = Prime Hakeem!!!

[light]

I thought I'd see this after clicking the link..

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/VSQd3iP99gzNWiA1bPM1P1NVNqG4U0aBnp0dP7qrqw3Kw6pFC3 kdRPI7WTgdUVj1bf4NEDJrlubPQRVk-j4dBxHDsff1Od3PKh5FTjeaWESpPxhg

[Manny98]

Russell + Wilt + Kareem = Prime Hakeem!!!
lol no :oldlol:

I appreciate Russell way more as a player after watching this video.

I used to think he was overrated because of his rings but I failed to understand why he had so much team success.

He understood how to win in a way that was way ahead of his time

He probably has the GOAT basketball IQ relative to his era

[coastalmarker99]

Guys like Bill Russell, Bill Walton, and Tim Duncan were way too successful to simply call it an accident. Maybe a 20/15/5 center playing amazing defense is the best kind of big man to win championships? Bill Russell is always looked at having stacked teams but he wasn't the favorite from 1966 to 1969 and still won three out of four.


1966 76ers were not the favourites the Celtics were and infact the 76ers the were very lucky to finish ahead of the Celtics that year by one game as the Celtics players dealt with some injuries that year. And never mind in the playoffs outside of Wilt every 76ers player played like crap against the Celtics that year it was a flat out disgusting performance by them and it makes no sense as they took the Celtics to 7 the previous year.





1968 the 76ers got just flat out destroyed with injuries otherwise they would have beat the Celtics again and repeated and we all know it.



1969 is his most impressive ring and that was his greatest achievement as even with Vbk and Wilt beefing against each other and both Baylor and Wilt hating each other guts as they kept getting in each other's way on offence. I still think the Lakers should have won the title that year also I seriously hate sam Jones that guy used to make the biggest shots in the clutch and I have no clue still how he hit that shot to win the Celtics game 4 of the 1969 finals.

[Horatio33]

Bron-ball

Btw, didn't Wilt win a championship the year he led the league in assists?

No, the year before. 1967. He led the league in 68.

[dankok8]

Actually assist titles at the time were given based on totals not averages. Oscar (9.7) averaged more apg than Wilt (8.6) and played 65 games so by modern criteria Wilt wouldn't have had an assist title. Regardless 8.6 apg for a center is something else... It's a very nice achievement.