How would we look at Jordan differently if Scottie had won the title in 1994

[coastalmarker99]

Scottie Pippen has long been known (mostly deservedly, as great a player as he was) as the Robin to Michael Jordan's Batman. However, when Jordan retired after the Bulls' first three-peat,




Pippen took over and had an MVP-caliber season, leading the team to a 50-win season and losing on a controversial foul in the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals to the New York Knicks. Let's say that that foul isn't called, Pippen leads the Bulls to the title, winning Finals MVP in the process, all without His Airness. What happens next?



Do the Bulls still rebuild the team the year after for their second three peat? Does Jordan still come back to the Bulls in 95 if Pippen wins without him as the man on those Bulls teams? How does this change Pippen's place in basketball history? Curious for everyone's thoughts.

[tpols]

He didn't come even remotely close, so it's just an absurd scenario to even contemplate.

[coastalmarker99]

Would Pippen have returned to being the sidekick to Jordan with a title and finals MVP under his belt you think or would the two have started feuding over control over the Bulls team much as Shaq and Kobe did?



Knowing Pippen's ego it is hard to see him give up being the man if he wins the title and also a finals MVP without Jordan which would see the entire Bulls teams have different dynamics.



As they would have established themselves as a true dynasty that doesn't require Jordan's presence to keep winning titles and maybe as a result of that they could instead begin to rally around Scottie Pippen as their centrepiece. Which means that if and when MJ does return to basketball, the team might have different dynamics, even with Phil Jackson at the helm and most of the core players. And would Scottie want to be #2 again? Either way, does this mean he gets paid more?

[Axe]

He didn't come even remotely close, so it's just an absurd scenario to even contemplate.
Don't be ridiculous. The bulls didn't have the hca when they met the knicks in the '94 ecsf but at least they were still able to take them to seven games, despite mj's absence.

[Horatio33]

If my aunty had balls she'd be my uncle.

[tpols]

Don't be ridiculous. The bulls didn't have the hca when they met the knicks in the '94 ecsf but at least they were still able to take them to seven games, despite mj's absence.

The Bulls were one Toni Kukoc miracle shot away from being down 3-0. In the 2nd round. They were so far from a title it doesn't make sense to even consider it.

[dankok8]

That was never going to happen but if it did.. yes of course we would look at MJ differently.

[Hey Yo]

Scottie Pippen has long been known (mostly deservedly, as great a player as he was) as the Robin to Michael Jordan's Batman. However, when Jordan retired after the Bulls' first three-peat,




Pippen took over and had an MVP-caliber season, leading the team to a 50-win season and losing on a controversial foul in the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals to the New York Knicks. Let's say that that foul isn't called, Pippen leads the Bulls to the title, winning Finals MVP in the process, all without His Airness. What happens next?



Do the Bulls still rebuild the team the year after for their second three peat? Does Jordan still come back to the Bulls in 95 if Pippen wins without him as the man on those Bulls teams? How does this change Pippen's place in basketball history? Curious for everyone's thoughts.
He was still under contract with the Bulls in 95'. Considering MLB went on strike in 95' MJ pretty much didn't have a choice but to comeback if he still wanted to get paid. Highest paid Double A player in baseball history.

[Overdrive]

Oh, this thread again.

[TheGreatKabuki]

Scottie Pippen has long been known (mostly deservedly, as great a player as he was) as the Robin to Michael Jordan's Batman. However, when Jordan retired after the Bulls' first three-peat,




Pippen took over and had an MVP-caliber season, leading the team to a 50-win season and losing on a controversial foul in the Eastern Conference Semi-Finals to the New York Knicks. Let's say that that foul isn't called, Pippen leads the Bulls to the title, winning Finals MVP in the process, all without His Airness. What happens next?



Do the Bulls still rebuild the team the year after for their second three peat? Does Jordan still come back to the Bulls in 95 if Pippen wins without him as the man on those Bulls teams? How does this change Pippen's place in basketball history? Curious for everyone's thoughts.

Not much differently IMO. A great scorer, shooter, ball handler and defender = Jordan. That doesn't change if Pippen wins in 1994 while Jordan is playing baseball.

[sdot_thadon]

It definitely would have had a ripple effect on history, would Mj even have come back at all? If things still played out the same though I think him and Mj would still be cohesive because their games never stepped on one another's toes, even Scottie's role as an alpha. They probably fight over the last shot though.....

Oh and that said I'm just not willing to assume Pippen's bulls beat Dream's rockets in 95, if he did that we'd definitely have to view him in a different light.

[bullettooth]

How do we look at Wade, a proven winner LeShortcut ran to in order to win a ring?

[SouBeachTalents]

The Bulls were one Toni Kukoc miracle shot away from being down 3-0. In the 2nd round. They were so far from a title it doesn't make sense to even consider it.
:oldlol: They were also an extremely questionable call away from making the conference finals where they would've had HCA. I'm not saying they're in the '02 Kings category or anything, but to say they "didn't come remotely close" when they would've been favored the next series and had a legit shot in the Finals is where you sound absolutely ridiculous. Act like we're talking about the 2010 Hawks or something :lol

[tpols]

:oldlol: They were also an extremely questionable call away from making the conference finals where they would've had HCA. I'm not saying they're in the '02 Kings category or anything, but to say they "didn't come remotely close" when they would've been favored the next series and had a legit shot in the Finals is where you sound absolutely ridiculous. Act like we're talking about the 2010 Hawks or something :lol

The 2010 Hawks and the 1994 Bulls lost in the same exact round. :oldlol:

No... if you lose in the 2nd round, you dont get a cookie as a title contender. That's asinine.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

2018 pelicans won just 1 less playoff game then 1994 bulls. So we could play this game with 2018 pelicans as well. Rondo and Davis also beat Durant Warriors more in 2018 then LeBron and Love were able to do.

Or what if Wade was able to come back and beat Dirk in 2006 finals? Oh yeah that already happened. Too bad he lost to Dirk when LeBron was on his team hahahaha

Lecuck won all his rings with either a finals MVP (Wade) or #1 draft picks (Irving, Davis).

[SouBeachTalents]

The 2010 Hawks and the 1994 Bulls lost in the same exact round. :oldlol:

No... if you lose in the 2nd round, you dont get a cookie as a title contender. That's asinine.
So the '06 Spurs & '07 Suns, hell, even this years Clippers weren't close to winning a title? GTFOH :lol

[tpols]

Southbeach the Bulls were +1500 odds to win the title in the 1994 season. They were ranked 10th most likely team to win. The 2006 Spurs were +250 odds (#1 favorite), and the 2007 suns were +600 (#3 favorite).

You can try and twist the truth and revise history, but 1994 Chicago Bulls were nowhere near considered title contenders. They were considered a middling playoff team that ended up losing in the 2nd of four rounds.

That's pretty much end of story.

[dankok8]

Southbeach the Bulls were +1500 odds to win the title in the 1994 season. They were ranked 10th most likely team to win. The 2006 Spurs were +250 odds (#1 favorite), and the 2007 suns were +600 (#3 favorite).

You can try and twist the truth and revise history, but 1994 Chicago Bulls were nowhere near considered contenders. They were considered a middling playoff team that ended up losing in the 2nd of four rounds.

That's pretty much end of story.

Yikes.

[tpols]

Yikes.

Yup... link (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1994_preseason_odds.html)

That was the reality at the time. Now we get a different story.

And the crazy thing is in 1993, when MJ was still there... the Bulls were +120 odds to win. All time great favorites.

:biggums:

That is absolutely absurd. I don't know if thats ever been beat.

[SouBeachTalents]

Southbeach the Bulls were +1500 odds to win the title in the 1994 season. They were ranked 10th most likely team to win. The 2006 Spurs were +250 odds (#1 favorite), and the 2007 suns were +600 (#3 favorite).

You can try and twist the truth and revise history, but 1994 Chicago Bulls were nowhere near considered title contenders. They were considered a middling playoff team that ended up losing in the 2nd of four rounds.

That's pretty much end of story.
The Rockets were +1200 to start the season, preseason odds aren't that relevant come playoff time. Idk what the Bulls odds were pre playoffs, but they were only slight underdogs against the Knicks

[tpols]

I have to take that back. :lol

The 2018 Warriors were -187. That means if you bet on them you'd get basically half of what you put up. And the symbolic nature of that number too... they really were expected to kill the league.

[dankok8]

The Rockets were +1200 to start the season, preseason odds aren't that relevant come playoff time. Idk what the Bulls odds were pre playoffs, but they were only slight underdogs against the Knicks

Preseason odds are still informative. They reflect the perceived talent and potential of the team. You won't find many instances of teams 10th in title odds winning championships in all of NBA history. The 93-94 Rockets are one of the least talented teams ever to win a title and even they were four-way ranked tied for 5th in title odds.

Regardless Bulls were tied for the 6th best record in 93-94 and were 11th in SRS. That doesn't look like a contender to me.

[guy]

:oldlol: They were also an extremely questionable call away from making the conference finals where they would've had HCA. I'm not saying they're in the '02 Kings category or anything, but to say they "didn't come remotely close" when they would've been favored the next series and had a legit shot in the Finals is where you sound absolutely ridiculous. Act like we're talking about the 2010 Hawks or something :lol

They weren't though. They still would've had another game to win. Its also been overexaggerated how bad of a call that was.

[aceman]

The Bulls were one Toni Kukoc miracle shot away from being down 3-0. In the 2nd round. They were so far from a title it doesn't make sense to even consider it.

Bulls lost to Knicks in 7 who lost to Rockets in 7..

[TheGoatest]

:oldlol: They were also an extremely questionable call away from making the conference finals where they would've had HCA. I'm not saying they're in the '02 Kings category or anything, but to say they "didn't come remotely close" when they would've been favored the next series and had a legit shot in the Finals is where you sound absolutely ridiculous. Act like we're talking about the 2010 Hawks or something :lol

Don't forget to add that that '94 Knicks team (3 all-stars) was better than any of those Knicks teams (1 all-star) the Bulls faced with Jordan.

The 1993-94 season will forever serve as evidence that Pippen came way closer to winning a chip without Jordan in the one season he played without him than Jordan did without Pippen in the three seasons he played without him.

[Axe]

Don't forget to add that that '94 Knicks team (3 all-stars) was better than any of those Knicks teams (1 all-star) the Bulls faced with Jordan.
Duh, they were conference champions.


The 1993-94 season will forever serve as evidence that Pippen came way closer to winning a chip without Jordan in the one season he played without him than Jordan did without Pippen in the three seasons he played without him.
I was trying to imply this earlier but for some odd reason, it couldn't get on his head. :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

Don't be ridiculous. The bulls didn't have the hca when they met the knicks in the '94 ecsf but at least they were still able to take them to seven games, despite mj's absence.

They took the Knicks 7 games despite 21 on 40% from Pippen

So Jordan replacing pippen would've easily beaten the Knicks

And Jordan beats Hakeem because Ewing almost did despite averaging 18 on 35%

[Bankaii]

The 2010 Hawks and the 1994 Bulls lost in the same exact round. :oldlol:

No... if you lose in the 2nd round, you dont get a cookie as a title contender. That's asinine.
So the 2020 Clippers and Bucks, one of which I assume you also picked, weren’t title favorites this past season?

Dude you always make the dumbest posts. It’s embarrassing.

[SATAN]

So the 2020 Clippers and Bucks, one of which I assume you also picked, weren’t title favorites this past season?

Dude you always make the dumbest posts. It’s embarrassing.

I think he's either a troll or hasn't watched basketball in a long time