Wade outscored Lebron in 11' playoffs like AD did this yr, so what ruined this lock?

[3ball]

Must've been something pretty bad...

11' Wade Playoffs..... 24.5 ppg
11' Lebron Playoffs... 23.7 ppg


Jordan is the only guy that didn't have an elite 1st option sidekick like Kareem, AD, Wade or Kyrie, who led Lebron/Magic in scoring for entire playoff runs..

Therefore, lebron/magic are "pippen's" that need a "jordan", (elite 1st option sidekick that can lead in scoring).

[light]

Must've been something pretty bad...

11' Wade Playoffs..... 24.5 ppg
11' Lebron Playoffs... 23.7 ppg


Jordan is the only guy that didn't have an elite 1st option sidekick like Kareem, AD, Wade or Kyrie, who led Lebron/Magic in scoring for entire playoff runs..

Therefore, lebron/magic are "pippen's" that need a "jordan", (elite 1st option sidekick that can lead in scoring).

Pippen was an elite 1st option sidekick. Not only that, but Pippen was considered by many to be the best player on the Bulls in 1995 and 1996 even with Jordan on the team (the NBA became Pip's world in MJ's absence and Jordan lost a step).

[Smoke117]

1-9

[3ball]

Pippen was an elite 1st option sidekick. Not only that, but Pippen was considered by many to be the best player on the Bulls in 1995 and 1996 even with Jordan on the team (the NBA became Pip's world in MJ's absence and Jordan lost a step).

Pippen wasn't an elite 1st option and Ewing showed the difference in the 94' Playoffs (21 on 40% for Pippen)..

pippen's peak PPG and efficiency as a 1st option simply wasn't elite and actually was similar to his production as 2nd option alongside Jordan.

Ultimately, Pippen averaged 10-30 less than Jordan in every series - Jordan is the only guy that led his team in every series, let alone a playoff run, and he led his 2nd option by a 15.4 ppg margin for his playoff career.. compare that to lebron/magic (pippen's) getting carried by their "jordan's" like kareem, AD, kyrie or wade... lol... night and day

[StrongLurk]

Add...ict.

[3ball]

Add...ict.


We'll SoBeachTalents is running, so maybe you'll give me some action..

Do you know how big Curry was in the Warriors' 73-win offense?. His stats were peak Jordan level and he was the only unanimous MVP ever.

Accordingly, it's impossible to lose when your sidekick is destroying their "jordan" and the league MVP, so lebron should get knocked for needing 7 games given kyrie's performance.. it only went 7 games because lebron wet the bed thru 4 (24 ppg and 6 TO's).

If a 2nd option like Kevin Johnson outplayed MJ in 93', would Barkley deserve credit for a goat accomplishment? Or if Smits outplayed Shaq in 00', would Miller deserve credit for a goat accomplishment? So why does lebron get credit?..

Guys like Dirk, Baron Davis or Jordan overcame bigger odds and talent deficits in a big series, and without help like suspensions, injury.

And the "led 5 categories" claim is a cute footnote and statistical anomaly, as he shared every category with a teammate, including the primary category (scoring).. Otoh, Jordan carried the scoring load in 6 of 6 Finals and every playoff series of his career (1-man scoring distribution).. and lebron is lucky that 29 ppg constituted the series scoring lead.. 29/11/9 isn't an impressive stat line.

Ultimately, Jordan is the only guy that never played with an elite 1st option sidekick like Kareem, AD, Wade or Kyrie - these guys outscored lebron/magic in a playoff run and are the "jordan's" that they need as "pippen's"

[light]

Pippen wasn't an elite 1st option

Pippen absolutely was an elite 1st option franchise player. He averaged more ppg than other elite first options. In 1994 only Mitch Richmond and Dominque Wilkins averaged more ppg from the perimeter.

He was literally considered the best perimeter player in the game from 1994 to 1996. The title of best perimeter player didn't leave Chicago with Jordan.

[GrayGoat]

Op still can’t come to terms with how good Pippen was

[3ball]

Pippen absolutely was an elite 1st option franchise player. He averaged more ppg than other elite first options. In 1994 only Mitch Richmond and Dominque Wilkins averaged more ppg from the perimeter.

He was literally considered the best perimeter player in the game from 1994 to 1996. The title of best perimeter player didn't leave Chicago with Jordan.


You're comparing pippen's peak to Dominique and Mitch's lows, yet Pippen still falls far short of them

Pippen's peak ppg capability (22 ppg) simply disqualifies him from being an elite 1st option, since it's nowhere near the peak capability of actual elite 1st options

Furthermore, we're talking about who carried who - pippen averaged 10-30 less than MJ in every series, while guys like AD/Kyrie/Wade outscore lebron for entire playoff runs

And btw, Penny Hardaway/Grant Hill weren't just considered better, but "next level" better like not even comparable. You'd get laughed back then for saying pippen could deal with either.

[3ball]

Pippen's peak capability (22 ppg) disqualifies him from being an elite 1st option, since it's nowhere near the peak capability of actual elite 1st options

[Axe]

Pippen's peak capability (22 ppg) disqualifies him from being an elite 1st option, since it's nowhere near the peak capability of actual elite 1st options
Yet he was more versatile than baldan outside of scoring

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

[3ball]

He was more versatile than baldan outside of scoring

How so?

Jordan averaged more assists and assist percentage, while getting more dpoy votes every year except 96' and 97'

[Axe]

How so?

Jordan averaged more assists and assist percentage, while getting more dpoy votes every year except 96' and 97'
If the assists numbers don't count, he still had more rebounds, steals and blocks than him.

[3ball]

If the assists numbers don't count, he still had more rebounds, steals and blocks than him.

Jordan averaged more career steals and they clearly shared the load during championship runs despite Jordan carrying the scoring load (doubling pippen)..

[And1AllDay]

Yet he was more versatile than baldan outside of scoring

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

:lebronamazed:

[SATAN]

OP thinks Wade and Kyrie are scorers that are on Michael Jordan's level.

[3ball]

OP thinks Wade and Kyrie are scorers that are on Michael Jordan's level.
Lebron/magic are "pippen's" that need a "jordan" (elite 1st option sidekick that can lead them in scoring)

[paksat]

Yet he was more versatile than baldan outside of scoring

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU

here I was thinking points on the scoreboard won games, fck me

[Baller789]

here I was thinking points on the scoreboard won games, fck me

Nah man, rebs, ast, blk and stl is where its at.

[Hey Yo]

here I was thinking points on the scoreboard won games, fck me

LOL @ you coming out of hiding. Where's your signature spelling of LeBron's first name using a 3 and a 9??

[HBK_Kliq_2]

LeBron was probably scared of Tyson Chandler. The main things that scare LeBron are rim protectors and Kawhi Leonard.

If LeBron faced a rim protector like Bil Russell, he would lose every series just like Jerry West did. LeBron can't shoot and his game wouldn't adapt to every era like Kawhi or Jordan would.

[aj1987]

LeBron was probably scared of Tyson Chandler. The main things that scare LeBron are rim protectors and Kawhi Leonard.

If LeBron faced a rim protector like Bil Russell, he would lose every series just like Jerry West did. LeBron can't shoot and his game wouldn't adapt to every era like Kawhi or Jordan would.

How did Cuckwhi adapy his game versus a 7 foot Windhorst?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

How did Cuckwhi adapy his game versus a 7 foot Windhorst?

He led the series in GmSc on both teams. He didn't get outscored by Jason Terry.

[TheGoatest]

Yet he was more versatile than baldan outside of scoring

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU


:banana:

Never gets old.

Scottie = Bulls Swiss Army Knife
Jordan = Bulls One Trick Pony

[aj1987]

He led the series in GmSc on both teams. He didn't get outscored by Jason Terry.

Yeah, he only gave up a 3-1 lead while leading in all 3 close out games. Not to mention 1-11 in the second half of G7 and 14 points on 22 shots, while getting absolutely roasted on the defensive end. Lets also not forget that LeBron lost in the Finals and your guy didn't even make the Conference Finals. :roll: :roll:

As bad as LeBron was, Kawhi arguably had the WOAT Finals game for a superstar in his prime.

[3ball]

OP thinks Wade and Kyrie are scorers that are on Michael Jordan's level.

a "Jordan"= a teammate that is capable of outscoring you for an entire playoff run (capable of being the higher scorer)

So lebron needed "Jordans" as sidekicks that could match or outscore him like 11' Wade, 16' Kyrie, or 20' AD

Otoh, Jordan just needed a "pippen" (a true 2nd option that scored 10 ppg less in every series)

So Jordan needed pippen, but lebron needs a "jordan"... :confusedshrug:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Yeah, he only gave up a 3-1 lead while leading in all 3 close out games. Not to mention 1-11 in the second half of G7 and 14 points on 22 shots, while getting absolutely roasted on the defensive end. Lets also not forget that LeBron lost in the Finals and your guy didn't even make the Conference Finals. :roll: :roll:

As bad as LeBron was, Kawhi arguably had the WOAT Finals game for a superstar in his prime.

But Kawhi was the leader in GmSc for all players, so why is it his fault again?

Wade carried Lebron and Lebron got outscored by Jason Terry. Did George carry Kawhi?

And you only made the finals because Wade led the entire playoffs in VORP, while Kawhi had nobody close to that.

[aj1987]

But Kawhi was the leader in GmSc for all players, so why is it his fault again?
Because he went 1-11 in the 2nd half and scored 14 points on 22 shots in G7.

How about G6, when Kawhi went 3-10 from the field in the 2nd half?


Wade carried Lebron and Lebron got outscored by Jason Terry. Did George carry Kawhi?
Carried LeBron where?

LeBron through the first 3 rounds - 26/9/6/2/2

Wade through the first 3 rounds - 24/7/3/2/1

You comparing the Finals to the 2nd round? :roll:

Kawhi got outplayed by a 7 foot Brian Windhorst in the Semi-Finals. :roll:



And you only made the finals because Wade led the entire playoffs in VORP, while Kawhi had nobody close to that.
Do VORP for the first 3 rounds, shit for brains. Cause the first 3 rounds are what are needed to get to the Finals.

Also, you do know what VORP is, right? Value Over Replacement Player. Idiot.

Through the first 3 rounds - Wade - 18 gamescore, 109 ORtg, and 101 DRtg

Through the first 3 rounds - LeBron - 21.7 gamescore, 116 ORtg, and 100 DRtg

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Because he went 1-11 in the 2nd half and scored 14 points on 22 shots in G7.

How about G6, when Kawhi went 3-10 from the field in the 2nd half?


Carried LeBron where?

LeBron through the first 3 rounds - 26/9/6/2/2

Wade through the first 3 rounds - 24/7/3/2/1

You comparing the Finals to the 2nd round? :roll:

Kawhi got outplayed by a 7 foot Brian Windhorst in the Semi-Finals. :roll:



Do VORP for the first 3 rounds, shit for brains. Cause the first 3 rounds are what are needed to get to the Finals.

Also, you do know what VORP is, right? Value Over Replacement Player. Idiot.

Through the first 3 rounds - Wade - 18 gamescore, 109 ORtg, and 101 DRtg

Through the first 3 rounds - LeBron - 21.7 gamescore, 116 ORtg, and 100 DRtg

Nit picking halves is not going to win any argument.

Wade led entire playoffs in VORP and you still failed to win a ring, while also getting outscored by Jason Terry for an entire series.

You see what I did there? I took the entire playoffs as an argument and i took the entire finals series as an argument. Do you understand why that's a better argument then a couple of quarters?

Also, Jokic is a legit all nba player and has a career playoffs BPM of 9.3 (superstar level). Meanwhile, Lebron was outscored by 0 time allstar Jason Terry.

[dankok8]

In 116 games: 20 more assists but 1576 less points!

LOL

Some peeps on here hurting their own arguments... By the way another thing I noticed on here and that's how you tell if someone is a serious poster or not. They cherrypick numbers. Post all their box score numbers including free throws and turnovers.

[Axe]

a "Jordan"= a teammate that is capable of outscoring you for an entire playoff run (capable of being the higher scorer)

So lebron needed "Jordans" as sidekicks that could match or outscore him like 11' Wade, 16' Kyrie, or 20' AD

Otoh, Jordan just needed a "pippen" (a true 2nd option that scored 10 ppg less in every series)

So Jordan needed pippen, but lebron needs a "jordan"... :confusedshrug:
Why did you have to respond to the very same statement twice

[SATAN]

3ball is losing his mind.

[StrongLurk]

Lebron choked in the finals, simple as that. Only the diehard Lebron stans refuse to admit this, but they don't matter since they have no credibility or integrity...of course OP doesn't have credibility or integrity either.

[3ball]

Lebron choked in the finals, simple as that. Only the diehard Lebron stans refuse to admit this, but they don't matter since they have no credibility or integrity...of course OP doesn't have credibility or integrity either.

Why couldn't he just wait 1 more year in Cleveland and win with a 1-star team over Dirk's 1-star team?..

that would've been truly goat..

and those Cavs would've added a 3rd all-star-caliber guy like they did in 09' and 10' - a tremendously-experienced league favorite for the 3rd year in a row and massive favorites over Dirk

And his organic Cavs would've had the CHEMISTRY to beat the Mavs.. that's what the heat were missing.

But instead, karma bit him in the ass because Dirk's 1 star team beat his super-team of fakeness and manufacturedness... Forever tainting his legacy

[And1AllDay]

Yet he was more versatile than baldan outside of scoring

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeuYyL_SiImGrcQsrQOdNQPF81xHtKM qWUNA&usqp=CAU


:banana:

Never gets old.

Scottie = Bulls Swiss Army Knife
Jordan = Bulls One Trick Pony

bingo bingo

[3ball]

bingo bingo


only a bigger league and lower proportion of entrants kept lebron's 30-40 win teams out of the 8 seed in 04/05/19, while Jordan's 30-40 win teams were forced into the 8 vs 1 matchup by a smaller league.. so lebron only faced playoff opponents with developed high seeds, not lottery 8 seeds like Jordan.. Yet lebron still went 1-9 against champs with 2 seeds in 07' and 14', so that's worse than Jordan's 1-9 with 8 seeds... And if you want to say "well it's better to make the Finals", then let's talk Finals, aka 6/6

Btw, teams from the 80's had the 8 vs 1 matchup against a super-team because a super-team with many HOF's was required to win the 80's East (not 1-star teams like the 00"s East).. so even though 30-win teams occasionally made the playoffs because of league-size, their top-heavy, super-team opposition was tougher than the diluted 1-star opposition that won the 00's East (01', 02', 03', 07', 09')..

[3ball]

Lebron never had to carry a below-halfway team in the playoffs because today's larger league only allows the top 50% of teams into the playoffs (the top 53% of teams).

Otoh, the 80's allowed 70% of teams in the playoffs and therefore a lot of bottom-half teams like Jordan's 85-87' Bulls - so Jordan had to carry much worse teams than lebron ever did in the playoffs.

The 85-87' Bulls won 30-40 games like Lebron's 04/05/19 teams but were forced into the playoffs as 8 seeds due to the smaller league/larger proportion of entrants.. So Jordan's 85-87' teams = lebron's lottery 04/05/19 teams and both are nowhere near Lebron's playoff teams (all high seeds and 50+ wins)

So lebron only had stacked high seeds in the playoffs (relative to the East), and FAR better than his lottery teams in 04/05/19 or jordan's 85-89' teams

[dankok8]

Jordan and Pippen Averages During Bulls Title Runs (1991-1993, 1996-1998)

Jordan: 32.6 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 5.4 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.8 bpg on 47.8 %FG/33.8 %3P/82.7 %FT with 2.6 topg; 55.8 %TS
Pippen: 19.0 ppg, 7.8 rpg, 5.5 apg, 2.1 spg, 1.0 bpg on 44.4 %FG/28.2 %3P/71.7 %FT with 3.0 topg; 51.9 %TS